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Never really thought I'd use the unregistered side of this board but here goes.

It was a friday night and I had stopped for a couple of drinks. I purchased two beers but drinks had been purchased for me during the course of the night. I was sitting outside having a religious debate with a couple of people I had never met before and that is the last thing I remember until the next morning when I woke up in my own bed.

My vehicle was not in my driveway which was not a terrible surprise as it is common a case of my drinking for me to get a ride home, however my vehicle was also not where I had parked it. After calling around to tow companies and the police it was recommended that I file a stolen vehicle report, which I did. The police officer taking my report informed me that it sounded like someone had put something in my drink drugging me. I spoke with the bartender and he said that he thought I left with someone and was sure I didn't drive.

It was not until later that I spoke with one of my neighbors and found out that the police had been to my residence the night before and had towed my vehicle out of my driveway without my knowledge. Apparently they had a witness and marks on my vehicle that led them to believe it was my vehicle that took out a light pole a block away from my home. I remember nothing of the night and was never woken by the police who were apparently pounding on my doors and walking around my property trying to get my attention.

A few days go by and I receive a court summons in the mail to respond to a "hit and run: unattended vehicle" charge. Days later I finally received a phone call from the police saying they want a written statement from me in order to release my vehicle to me. They want that statement tonight, my court arraignment is tomorrow.

Why did it take them so long to contact me about my vehicle? Why did they tow it off private property? I could understand if it was at the scene of the accident but it wasn't. I have heard in cases like this that the police have authority to enter the house and arrest me if they suspect I was behind the wheel, which I don't even know if I was. Is it possible for them to try and charge me also with a DUI? What kind of statement to I make that doesn't make me look guilty but gets me my vehicle back?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Any advice, thoughts, opinions etc are appreciated. And yes I know that nothing said here constitutes "actual legal advice."

Get a lawyer before you talk to any police officer, who knows if you actually did it but hitting a pole and driving away is fleeing the scene of an accident, and it would be better to have someone educated in law accompany you to the police station for a statement.

I can't afford a lawyer. I'm worried about leaving this in the hands of a public defender but I don't have the money for a lawyer for sure.

However the lawyer I have been in touch with, although not representing me, has told me to sign and seal a statement saying that I've been advised not to make a statement without legal representation just to get my vehicle back.

What a mess.

Absolutely don't talk without some sort of legal advisement, I have taken a few criminal justices classes and got an associates (far from knowledgeable), but considering you don't remember what happened that night, even admitting that removes almost any defense you have.

I would say even a public defender is better than 'I don't know what happened' defense. Cause maybe he can help arrange a plea that would be a whole lot better than what you can negotiate.

Yeah... good luck man. Don't. Talk. To. The. Cops. You gain nothing, they gain everything. Get the public defender.

I did go down to the police station. They had no intention of giving me back my vehicle. They (rather he) implied that he would if I gave him a statement.

So I went down there, signed statement in a sealed envelope in hand. It is intimidating to stare down an officer from across and interrogation room table as he tells you your vehicle is being held in a criminal investigation. To hear him say he would like to release it if I'll give him a statement but in the same breath say that it's going to be held until the end of trial.

And then he asks me if I'm willing to give a statement. So I pulled out my envelope with his name on it. I didn't even say anything, he just demanded it from me. I pulled back, and I asked, "do I get me truck back?"

He practically yelled at me at this point. Saying "we don't make deals here" and "it's a criminal investigation!!"

Police officers do not like to be told "Then officer, I have been advised not to make statement without the presence of legal council."

He effectively told me at that time that "We are done here" and "you won't get your truck back until after the trial."

I hated to say that. I hate that I'm in this situation. I hate that I have no idea what happened that night. But everyone I've spoken to, everything I do remember says that it wasn't me, that I wasn't driving, yet I have no proof of anything.

And the burden of proof is - unfortunately - on you. I know you can't afford a lawyer but you have to ask yourself, can you NOT afford to have one at this point?

Dave said:

And the burden of proof is - unfortunately - on you. I know you can't afford a lawyer but you have to ask yourself, can you NOT afford to have one at this point?

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I definitely of the opinion that I can not do this without a lawyer.
Unfortunately the other question is: Do I have in any way shape or form money that I can use to hire a lawyer?

Since I have not been able to pay my own bills, not pay my rent, am putting gasoline in my vehicle with borrowed money, and have asked everyone that I know for a helping hand and none have been either willing or able? And the answer has been "no."

In the end I suppose I can only hope to get a good public defender.

Have you filed anything regarding as what happened at where you stopped to have drinks? Do you recall drinking a lot? Did you take any tests to find out what happened? These are things you should do the same day it happened.

Sorry, dumb statement here, maybe I'm not following properly..

They haven't charged YOU with anything, hence, they can't PROVE anything? If anything, your car was used without your permission or was hit by someone else? If they'd have been able to charge you with a DUI, then they would have had to take breathalyzer tests or blood alcohol when it happened, and they didn't, so there is no proof there. If there had been, you would have been arrested then and there.

So I'd breathe that sigh of relief, and unfortunately you're going to have to fight for your rights.. Good old American justice system, huh?

Good luck. Here's hoping you don't get bit by the asset forfeiture bug. And don't admit/sign anything.



--Patrick

Dave said:

And the burden of proof is - unfortunately - on you.

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??? In a criminal case the prosecution normally has the burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Why would the burden of proof have shifted in this case?

Since the bartender saw you leaving with someone else, I would guess your lawyer (public defender or otherwise), would argue that the other person drove you home, and is responsible for the accident. Maybe they could even argue that it wasn't your car involved in the accident at all, but it's difficult to know without knowing what evidence the police have against you, which a public defender will know how to get.

Just to echo everyone else, you need a lawyer, even if it's a public defender. And don't talk to the police.

Papillon;417190][QUOTE=Dave said:

And the burden of proof is - unfortunately - on you.

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??? In a criminal case the prosecution normally has the burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Why would the burden of proof have shifted in this case?

Since the bartender saw you leaving with someone else, I would guess your lawyer (public defender or otherwise), would argue that the other person drove you home, and is responsible for the accident. Maybe they could even argue that it wasn't your car involved in the accident at all, but it's difficult to know without knowing what evidence the police have against you, which a public defender will know how to get.

Just to echo everyone else, you need a lawyer, even if it's a public defender. And don't talk to the police.[/QUOTE]

Because in this case they have his car. Ever had to get anything away from the police, including the impound lot? Or any governmental entity for that matter. Once they have it you need a note signed by God to get them to reverse the situation. Which means that the burden of proof in the matter of getting his truck back is all on him.

Dave said:

Because in this case they have his car. Ever had to get anything away from the police, including the impound lot? Or any governmental entity for that matter. Once they have it you need a note signed by God to get them to reverse the situation. Which means that the burden of proof in the matter of getting his truck back is all on him.

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Oh, I thought you were talking about the hit and run charge, not getting his car back.

But maybe once he gets a defendant he can dispute how the cops got his car? I mean, it seems a bit, if not highly, irregular, doesn't it?

Papillon;417241][QUOTE=Dave said:

Because in this case they have his car. Ever had to get anything away from the police, including the impound lot? Or any governmental entity for that matter. Once they have it you need a note signed by God to get them to reverse the situation. Which means that the burden of proof in the matter of getting his truck back is all on him.

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Oh, I thought you were talking about the hit and run charge, not getting his car back.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, even though the burden of proof is on the prosecution, circumstantial evidence will fuck him up in this case. He drove his car to place A, he got home with no memory of how or what transpired in between and his car shows the signs of the vehicle involved. Unless he has an alibi they can and will assume that he was the driver. He needs witnesses that say he was driven away or I'm afraid he's going to have an unhappy ending.

During the course of an investigation, if we come across a vehicle that we believe is involved in a hit-and-run, we can tow and impound pending the process of the investigation. I've actually been party to this, as we following a track from where this guy had been running on his rim for several miles before we found it in the driveway of his house.

It sounds as though they would be hard-pressed to stick the hit and run charge on you, with no witnesses saying that you were the driver. It helps that the bartender says that he saw you leaving with someone else, and is sure that he didn't see you drive.

Definitely get the public defender, and as much as it galls me to say this, don't talk to the officers any more. You've already invoked your right to have an attorney present, and your right to remain silent. If they call you again, asking for more statements, just keep repeating that you are invoking your right to remain silent, and your right to legal counsel. If at THIS point they keep questioning, they are now violating a Supreme Court ruling.

I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I hope that I can be of any more help here.

Officer_Charon said:

During the course of an investigation, if we come across a vehicle that we believe is involved in a hit-and-run, we can tow and impound pending the process of the investigation. I've actually been party to this, as we following a track from where this guy had been running on his rim for several miles before we found it in the driveway of his house.

It sounds as though they would be hard-pressed to stick the hit and run charge on you, with no witnesses saying that you were the driver. It helps that the bartender says that he saw you leaving with someone else, and is sure that he didn't see you drive.

Definitely get the public defender, and as much as it galls me to say this, don't talk to the officers any more. You've already invoked your right to have an attorney present, and your right to remain silent. If they call you again, asking for more statements, just keep repeating that you are invoking your right to remain silent, and your right to legal counsel. If at THIS point they keep questioning, they are now violating a Supreme Court ruling.

I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I hope that I can be of any more help here.

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Follow this advice this is from an official police officer

there were couple of link on our forum regarding "don't talk to cops" (nothing against you OC) there is a reason you can invoke "the right to remain silent" cause you MAY think it is safe to say certain things, but without a lawyer of any sort, you might get yourself into trouble even if you are thinking that you are not.

A lawyer can make sure you are protected even a public defendant follow this procedures. It is better than going on your own. unless you happen to be studying law, but as my lawyer friend (Intellectual property stuff) he always refer to a license lawyer first before going on his own.

Officer_Charon said:

During the course of an investigation, if we come across a vehicle that we believe is involved in a hit-and-run, we can tow and impound pending the process of the investigation. I've actually been party to this, as we following a track from where this guy had been running on his rim for several miles before we found it in the driveway of his house.

It sounds as though they would be hard-pressed to stick the hit and run charge on you, with no witnesses saying that you were the driver. It helps that the bartender says that he saw you leaving with someone else, and is sure that he didn't see you drive.

Definitely get the public defender, and as much as it galls me to say this, don't talk to the officers any more. You've already invoked your right to have an attorney present, and your right to remain silent. If they call you again, asking for more statements, just keep repeating that you are invoking your right to remain silent, and your right to legal counsel. If at THIS point they keep questioning, they are now violating a Supreme Court ruling.

I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I hope that I can be of any more help here.

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You sir are the one man I was hoping most would reply.

For the record, I've never run across the law before. Certainly not in this manner, but also in no matter at all.

I was arraigned in court today. It went as well as I could have hoped for. They are charging me with the hit and run but nothing else. I did get the public defender. I spent the rest of the day trying to track down police records on my case and the bartender for a witness. I have the public defender but I figure it's best to try and do most of the leg work myself.

Honestly, unless they have a witness placing you in the driver's seat of the vehicle at the time of the strike on the lamp post, their case against you personally is very weak.

You would be correct that doing the legwork for the PubDef would be a good idea... a lot of times it's not that these lawyers are bad, but they tend to be so swamped with cases that they can't dedicate sufficient time to them.

Get the bartender's info, see if he'll write a sworn statement that can be notarized, or ask if he'd be willing to testify in court for you... advising from this side of the legal proceedings is kind of strange, but I feel that you might honestly have a good chance at dodging the Hit-and-Run charge. The burden of proof, as Dave said, is beyond a reasonable doubt, and it rests with the prosecution. Thinking like a lawyer, I can think of several ways I can cast enough doubt to destroy their case.

You said that you've not come up against the law before, which tells me that you have no previous DUI or hit-and-run charges against you. This is also something that'll get taken into account, assuming the judge doesn't laugh out this charge. You've been arraigned, but not arrested. This tells me that they didn't have enough to obtain a warrant against you.

Honestly, this sounds very promising. The bartender sounds like your best angle.

if Officer Charon gets you out of this, you owe him some hardcore babysitting.

Also, if you really think you were drugged, go get tested for it. I don't know how long some of these drugs stay in your system, and I'm not googling it at work, but it probably won't be that long. If you were drugged that may mitigate anything else that comes down.

.Amy. said:

if Officer Charon gets you out of this, you owe him some hardcore babysitting.

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Yeah I was going to suggest you buy Charon a drink, but I don't know if you're going to want to do much drinking in the near future. Amy's suggestion sounds better.

bhamv3;417566][QUOTE=.Amy. said:

if Officer Charon gets you out of this, you owe him some hardcore babysitting.

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Yeah I was going to suggest you buy Charon a drink, but I don't know if you're going to want to do much drinking in the near future. Amy's suggestion sounds better.[/QUOTE]

Nobody said that THEY had to drink it...

Would like to throw in an update here.

Finally got a copy of the police report from the night of the incident. It appears for the transcripts of messages sent to the police the exact words "Driver left in another truck" as well as a witness statement saying there was another truck and someone going from my vehicle to the other truck and etc.

I would appreciate the good officers opinion upon that.

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

Can't edit as unregistered (wise idea), but there is also photographic proof that I was home, in my bed, when the police arrived. They took pictures through my back bedroom door.

---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------

cool. an unregistered post gets added anyway.

I'd say that between the witness statements and the officer's photos, their case against you just became encased in lead, i.e. it's gonna get dropped.

If they persist in pushing for it, I feel sorry for the dumb schmuck pushing for prosecution. There's no way in hell that _I_ would attempt a conviction based on the totality of circumstances here. I rather enjoy my near-perfect conviction rate (mutter mutter stupid Arizona vs. Gant...)

They were probably hoping you'd confess (again, married to a cop). With that gone, OC is probably right. They'll probably drop it.

I second, third, or whatever not talking to the cops, especially if you're innocent. Some of these detectives are really good at getting you to talk. My wife is a good example. She basically does the "don't worry, I'm your buddy" approach. You'd be surprised how well that works. That, and despite hollywood's insistence on brilliant criminal masterminds, most people aren't geniuses, and most feel guilty about what they did, and are dying for an outlet anyway.

I'm wondering what the latest is on it?

If the system in Unregistered's state works like down here, because he's not being held in jail, the case might take several months to get added to the trial docket, if it even goes that far. I'd be amazed if the DA doesn't get in contact with him, advising that the charges have been dropped. A confession was really the only thing they could hope for here, and obviously that ain't gonna happen.

I had a meeting with my Public Defender last week. Lets say I was less than thrilled with him or the meeting. Asked point blank what he thought of all of this and the case (and let's just say he was less than willing to fully listen to me in the first place) he said point blank "I don't think it's a good case, but I don't think they have a good case against you either."

Outside of that there has been no news. No contact. Nothing. Court date (first of three) is coming up and I'll have perhaps more info after that.

Stick to your guns. Read up on your state's requirements for DUI cases - DUI's are a case that most line officers dread, as they have very stringent guidelines to be met in order to ensure successful prosecution. Take notes on the events of that night, see what sort of evidence may be brought up in your defense, whether testimonial or physical, and for every point that must be met in a statute, see if you can come up with something that refutes it. Their weakest link is putting you in physical control of the vehicle at the time of the accident (for the hit-and-run and the DUI)

I haven't used my necro powers in a while.

Damn it. I had a long post here and then somehow hit the back button....

Long story short, they dropped the charges against me because it came to light that I had a witness that swore I was not the one driving, in their police report it said the driver of my truck got out of my truck and got into another and left, and yet there were pictures of me in the police report sleeping/dead in my bed.

Problem is that the police released my truck to the tow company despite telling me that they were holding it until after the trial. They then sold my truck and are claiming I owe them for an amount they did not get from the auction to cover the rest of the impound fees. And the public utility is still coming after me to pay for the light post.

I've spoken to a few lawyers, but maybe I haven't searched hard enough as I have found none willing to take on a case against the police. I don't necessarily want to take a case up against the police but I would like my truck, which is gone, or at least some form of vehicle back. And I don't need these two companies taking me to collections over money they say I owe, despite I wasn't the one who hit the light post and it can't be proved it was my truck, since, the evidence has been sold. But now it's been so long since it happened I don't know if anything can even be done.

how very strange. I did post updating this thread but it's nowhere to be found....

Unregistered posts have to be approved by a moderator. A SEXY moderator.

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some name said:

Damn it. I had a long post here and then somehow hit the back button....

Long story short, they dropped the charges against me because it came to light that I had a witness that swore I was not the one driving, in their police report it said the driver of my truck got out of my truck and got into another and left, and yet there were pictures of me in the police report sleeping/dead in my bed.

Problem is that the police released my truck to the tow company despite telling me that they were holding it until after the trial. They then sold my truck and are claiming I owe them for an amount they did not get from the auction to cover the rest of the impound fees. And the public utility is still coming after me to pay for the light post.

I've spoken to a few lawyers, but maybe I haven't searched hard enough as I have found none willing to take on a case against the police. I don't necessarily want to take a case up against the police but I would like my truck, which is gone, or at least some form of vehicle back. And I don't need these two companies taking me to collections over money they say I owe, despite I wasn't the one who hit the light post and it can't be proved it was my truck, since, the evidence has been sold. But now it's been so long since it happened I don't know if anything can even be done.

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Ouch. Can they even do that? I mean sell your car while there is a trial?

They did. Legal or not, they release the truck and it was sold before there was even a trial. And then there was never a trial because they dropped the charges against me.

So....No charges but they impounded and sold your truck? That's a suing! Grab thyself a lawyer quick!

Yeah..sue the shit out of em.What the hell? If someone takes my stuff and sells it,that would be called theft.But it is ok if the police does it?
The Newspapers would have a fieldday here in Germany if something like that happened.

Dave said:

So....No charges but they impounded and sold your truck? That's a suing! Grab thyself a lawyer quick!

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That is what I'm thinking at this point.