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Paying with pennies

Aug 2, 2009#1

CrimsonSoul

8,800 pennies to be exact. Epic video is epic

Aug 2, 2009#2

Thread Necromancer

Video is not epic. The idea is sound. But video is not epic. Could have been done better. But I speak only from the video stand point.

As for the ACT that was done. It was a dick move. Completely stupid. Completely dickish. Completely rude. But yet, completely LEGAL. And I would have done the exact same.

Fact: The penny is 100% legal currency, rolled or not. If I had been the guy doing it then I'd have taken the same action as him. Hell, I might have been more rude and taken 1 dollar bill out of my pocket and kept reaching for the pennies and shoving them one at a time so she didn't have choice but to count them. I'm not saying it's nice to take it out on someone (like the girl behind the counter) who is just trying to do her job. But he did pay his bill.

On the other hand, Dude was in the wrong for parking where he was getting towed anyway, so it's a dick move.

Aug 2, 2009#3

figmentPez

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Aug 2, 2009#4

CrimsonSoul

Oh go post in the poop thread, Necro

Aug 2, 2009#5

Shegokigo

I loved every second of that. Laughed hard.

Comedy gold Crimson. Thank you. :rofl:

Aug 2, 2009#6

CrimsonSoul

Also figment, according to Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled
"Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency
(including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal
reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts,
public charges, taxes, and dues."

I would assume the tow bill to be public charges

Aug 2, 2009#7

Pojodan

One time, when I was about 14, my sister and I spent about two hours combing every nook and cranky of our house for change and managed to come up with just over $13, about $5 of which was pennies... yes.. 500 pennies. We used this to pay the pizza delivery guy.

Yes, he did look rather annoyed.

My only thought for a good way to do this was if you got bill for a stupid fee that came with a postage paid envelope and pay for it with a box of pennies, since postage paid envelopes work for any weight of parcel, even if it's 50 lbs of pennies.

Aug 2, 2009#8

CrimsonSoul

Pojodan said:
My only thought for a good way to do this was if you got bill for a stupid fee that came with a postage paid envelope and pay for it with a box of pennies, since postage paid envelopes work for any weight of parcel, even if it's 50 lbs of pennies.

You know the spam mail you get that sometimes comes with a return postage paid envelope? Fill it to the brim with as many pennies that you can fit into it (count the pennies so you know the ammount) mail it back and then call and complain that you want the money back that you accidentally sent them then wait for the check.

Aug 2, 2009#9

Lally

Things I can't believe right now:

I can't believe how bored I am, that I would actually watch this whole video.

I can't believe what a dick that guy is. Seriously, how is it anyone's fault but his that he parked somewhere he wasn't supposed to?

I can't believe the dumb girl didn't take the pennies. I would have taken them and counted every single one before letting the guy go. If he wants to waste my time, I'll waste his.

I can't believe they actually sent that many cops out there. What a waste of time, money, and manpower. Good to see my (well, not my, I'm not from Florida) tax dollars hard at work for dicks everywhere.

Aug 2, 2009#10

figmentPez

CrimsonSoul said:
Also figment, according to Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled
\"Legal tender,\" which states: \"United States coins and currency
(including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal
reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts,
public charges, taxes, and dues.\"

I would assume the tow bill to be public charges

So? I want to see legal precedent, a court ruling on the matter of payment. Just because pennies can be used to pay for debts, I don't see any reason why companies would be forced to accept payment entirely in pennies just because they legally have worth. In fact, such payment could be viewed as harrasment.

Interesting article at Law.com To sum up: A man tried to pay $1,000 in attorney's fees in pennies. By the end of the trial the judge had fined him $533 and held him in contempt over the matter. The appeals court said "the trial court has vast discretion to maintain control of the proceedings before it, to expedite the proceedings, and to prevent what it considers to be the unnecessary use of its time or resources." The court had the right to expect payment in a reasonable manner, in order to have things run smoothly and avoid waste. I see no reason why it should be different in paying a fine.

Aug 2, 2009#11

CrimsonSoul

Right, Figment, a lawyer, it wasn't a debt, it was a bill, it wasn't a public charge he hired the guy, it wasn't taxes, and it wasn't dues. The lawyer has the right to refuse payment. But seeing as his car was impounded it was a public charge that he had to pay hence why they were forced to accept the pennies

Aug 2, 2009#12

Hylian

read the following earlier

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 65,00.html

In response to the copper coin's declining value, some stores have stopped accepting it as a form of payment. In 2007, a New York City man was so incensed when a Chinese restaurant refused to let him pay for his dinner with 10 pennies (along with other cash) that he persuaded a state senator to draft a bill requiring pennies to be accepted everywhere and at all times. (The bill was not passed.) And in 2009, a number of Concord, Mass., shopkeepers banded together to protest pennies — on Lincoln's 200th birthday, no less.

While federal law states that coins are legal tender, it does not compel anyone to accept them. If a business doesn't want to take pennies — or a $100 bill, for that matter — it has a legal right to refuse them. So why does the government keep the penny around? The answer is simple: sales tax. Sales tax raises the price of an item to an uneven amount, requiring pennies to be given in change. Retailers need pennies to return to customers, banks need pennies to give to the retailers, and the Fed needs pennies to give to the bank. All so you can drop one on the sidewalk on your way out.

Aug 2, 2009#13

CrimsonSoul

I like pennies, Hylian

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:05 am --

Also the way I feel about it if a business refuses to let me pay with pennies then I should refuse to accept pennies from them and only accept nickels or dimes instead. Also, if they don't accept bills larger than a $20 I don't accept bills larger than a $1

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:06 am --

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!

Aug 2, 2009#14

figmentPez

CrimsonSoul said:
Right, Figment, a lawyer, it wasn't a debt, it was a bill, it wasn't a public charge he hired the guy, it wasn't taxes, and it wasn't dues. The lawyer has the right to refuse payment. But seeing as his car was impounded it was a public charge that he had to pay hence why they were forced to accept the pennies

A bill is a debt. And I don't see why the towing fee is any different. Both were debts that were owed and had to be paid. In both cases the people trying to pay the debts were intentionally trying to cause a loss of time and effort to the people they owed money to. They were trying to harm those they were legally obligated to pay. I see no reason why they should be allowed to do so under the guise of simply paying a bill. If I had been the cashier, I would have stood my ground, even in the face of the cops. There is no reason to pervert the law in order to allow harassment.

Aug 2, 2009#15

Shegokigo

Wow, seriously. All of you arguing I have this to say:

Fuck you guys, it's funny. :toocool:

Aug 2, 2009#16

Telephius

CrimsonSoul said:
Also the way I feel about it if a business refuses to let me pay with pennies then I should refuse to accept pennies from them and only accept nickels or dimes instead. Also, if they don't accept bills larger than a $20 I don't accept bills larger than a $1

If you refuse to accept pennies that would not mean they would have to give you nickels and dimes and over return on your change. It would just mean if you refused to accept the 2-pennies from them it would mean you would not be getting that 2-3 pennies change. Unless you mean if they are trying to give you 10 pennies instead of two nickels or a dime then yeah I can see your point hehe. The reason places don't accept bills larger then $20 is it makes it harder for the cashier to keep change in his/her float. Rarely is a $50 or $100 bill used to give as change back and inthe places that it could be used on a regular basis people use credit cards, business checks and the like.

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a dickwad he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Aug 2, 2009#17

Shegokigo

Telephius said:
Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a dickwad he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

Aug 2, 2009#18

CrimsonSoul

I completly agree with you, Telep and I apploud your manager for what he did I always told myself I'd do similar things if I were ever the manager of a business.

Aug 2, 2009#19

Telephius

Shegokigo said:
Telephius said:

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a * he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Click to expand...

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

True hehe.

Aug 2, 2009#20

Heavan

Shit, as a cashier myself, I'd grab a bag of penny rolls and make the guy slide them to me one at a time until I'd counted and rolled them all up. I'm getting paid to stand around doing whatever, he's wasting a full day on some petty version of a suburban white kids protest against 'the man'. I vote that I win in the end :toocool:

Aug 2, 2009#21

Shegokigo

Yeah, I got a coin counter machine in our building. No worries.

Aug 2, 2009#22

Reboneer

I used to work the register at a supermarket, and once had a guy pay for about $55 worth of groceries with a big bucket full of small change. Didn't annoy me though, I thought it was hilarious.

Aug 2, 2009#23

Garbledina

I'm enough of an asshole to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Aug 2, 2009#24

Heavan

Garbledina said:
I'm enough of an asshole to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Woohoo, Alberta wins again. I guess I'll never need to worry about this then and it turns out the manager at my old job 'wasn't lying when she told me that I didn't need to take a bunch of pennies. You learn and then unlearn something new every day.

Aug 2, 2009#25

checkeredhat

I'm not sure how it works in the States, but here in Canada cashiers DO have the right to refuse payment with unrolled coin.

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:17 am --

Heavan said:
Garbledina said:

I'm enough of an * to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Click to expand...

Woohoo, Alberta wins again. I guess I'll never need to worry about this then and it turns out the manager at my old job 'wasn't lying when she told me that I didn't need to take a bunch of pennies. You learn and then unlearn something new every day.

^Yeah, that's exactly what I was trained when I was a cashier at Shoppers Drug Mart, and that's here in Ontario.

Aug 2, 2009#26

Steve

Shegokigo said:
Telephius said:

Also if you don't like the way a company does business you don't have to give them business likewise if a company does not like you as a customer they don't have to give you a product and can tell you to GTFO. I have worked for a small company where if the owner felt the customer was being a a * he would politely ask them to do business somewhere else.

Click to expand...

Little different when it's a government agency holding your property for cash.

My dad had an old pickup truck that was given to him by his dad. 1960 something and he took it to town one day and it was stolen. He filed a police report and was basically told he should just kiss it goodbye. A few months later he got a call from the local tow/storage company saying they had his truck. Apparently the police found it a week later and had it towed/impounded. So a few months later dad gets a call saying "we've got your truck and it will cost you x amount of money for storing and towing fees." I don't remember the actual amount but it was more than the truck was worth. Then they said he needed to pay it because charges would keep building up. Or he could just bring down the title to the truck and give it to them and they'd be square which is what he did. So, yeah, kudos to that guy. I hate towing companies, too. And working in the transportation industry years ago I can tell you that the tow companies that work for the city are scum.

And don't feel sorry for that cashier. My experience in dealing with cashiers at tow companies I'm sure she's been a bitch to many many people. So count your f'n pennies and shut the f up. Although if I was in her position I would have demaned he slide them under the counter one at a time while I counted then when I got to about 7000 I'd lose count and have him start again. Do this a couple of times while the line starts to build behind him let them take their wrath out on him.

Aug 2, 2009#27

figmentPez

I see how this could be seen as "sticking it to the man" but how far would you take your opinion that pennies must be accepted as legal tender if someone were trying to pay you with them? If were awarded a $60,000 settlement in a court case, and some rich bastard decided that if had to pay you off, he'd pay you in pennies, would you just say "it's the law, I have to accept them," if he plopped down 32,000 pounds of pennies in your driveway?

"You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt..."

Aug 2, 2009#28

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Businesses can refuse $20.00, because that happens BEFORE a transaction occurs. You don't owe them the money. You simply want to give it to them in exchange for something they have. They can refuse to sell to you under any circumstance, including paying with $100 bills.

However, businesses cannot refuse cash for DEBTS, no matter what denomination, unless you sign away your right to pay in cash via contract (as in many apartment leases).

The guy who was ordered to pay costs for paying a legal judgement in pennies wasn't so ordered for paying in pennies, but for wasting the lawyer's time. The court agreed with the lawyer, and ordered him to pay for the wasted time.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

At the hearing on the motion, Powell maintained that the $1,000 in unrolled pennies was legal tender timely delivered and sufficient to satisfy the court's order.

Although Ray refused to hold Powell in contempt, he ordered Powell to pay for Tarlton's time, court costs and redemption fee.

\"One of the consequences of your chicanery is to incur the expenses associated with it,\" said the judge. \"This time it's $533.\" To exclude the possibility that Powell might again ante up in pennies, the judge specifically directed that Powell pay by cashier's check, money order or \"folding money.\"

So, in other words, the lawyer HAD to take the pennies, but was allowed to bill for the hassle it cost him. Your article actually holds up the argument that paying in pennies is perfectly legitimate and cannot be refused, figmentPez. Basically the judge said "yeah, you're allowed to pay in pennies, but the lawyer is allowed to bill you for the costs you made him incur by doing so."

As further support, please see
http://gothamist.com/2007/05/04/incentsed_over.php

be familiar with the U.S. Treasury's policy regarding payment and pennies. It states that while pennies are legal tender as payment for a contractual debt or payment to a government organization, private merchants are free to determine whatever legal tender they do and do not want to accept.

The specific Treasury policy is here:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/cu ... nder.shtml

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled \"Legal tender,\" which states: \"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.\"

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

The tow yard was a creditor. They impounded his car and refused to return it unless he paid a fee. When he parked on their lot, he accepted the terms that if he parked out of variance with their rules, he would be towed. That's a contract, making the $88.00 a contractual debt. Without that implied contract, the situation would be one of auto-theft instead of a legal impounding.

They have to take the pennies. If they want to bill the guy for the expense of taking them, that's a different matter.

Aug 2, 2009#29

Espy

Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

Aug 2, 2009#30

Bowielee

I think it was a funny "protest" but the fact that they wasted police time is extremely irksome to me.

Aug 2, 2009#31

Rubicon

figmentPez said:
Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Because its legal tender.

If businesses don't want to take small amounts as such, then they should take it up with the government to not make it a legal tender.

I can tell you many times, I've needed just a couple dollars of gas for the car and I'm out of cash, I'll dig up a few dollars of pennies to pay for it. Yea not 88 dollars worth but hey..

I have also had people refuse to take $2 bills. They are legal tender, people claim its fake or monopoly money.

Aug 2, 2009#32

Bowielee

Mav said:
figmentPez said:

Pointless and misdirected protest. Don't take it out on the peon, she's just a cashier, she doesn't set policy. If you don't like that you got your car towed, get involved in the political community.

I'm not even sure the cashier was wrong to refuse to accept pennies. Businesses can refuse to accept bills over $20, so why shouldn't they be able to refuse payment in pennies for large debts?

Click to expand...

Because its legal tender.

If businesses don't want to take small amounts as such, then they should take it up with the government to not make it a legal tender.

I can tell you many times, I've needed just a couple dollars of gas for the car and I'm out of cash, I'll dig up a few dollars of pennies to pay for it. Yea not 88 dollars worth but hey..

I have also had people refuse to take $2 bills. They are legal tender, people claim its fake or monopoly money.

If they have it posted that they will not accept certain types of tender, they have the right to refuse that tender. For example, many gas stations/convenience stores refuse to take 100.00 bills. They have it posted, so it is within their right to refuse it.

Aug 2, 2009#33

Rubicon

Bowielee said:
If they have it posted that they will not accept certain types of tender, they have the right to refuse that tender. For example, many gas stations/convenience stores refuse to take 100.00 bills. They have it posted, so it is within their right to refuse it.

Correct.

This car towing place had no sign whatsoever saying they wouldn't accept pennies or they had to be rolled. The lady simply didn't want to deal with almost 9000 pennies.

Aug 2, 2009#34

Espy

No matter if it was funny or not, this guy took it out on the wrong person (not to mention HE got his car towed, so it was his fault anyway), she didn't tow his car.
But I guess if it's funny, go ahead, be an asshole.

Aug 2, 2009#35

CynicismKills

Espy said:
Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

Yeah, a lot of the local businesses near me do this, and it's fucking annoying. I have a debit card and credit card so I can avoid carrying cash, damnit.

Aug 2, 2009#36

Espy

CynicismKills said:
Espy said:

Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of the local businesses near me do this, and it's smurfing annoying. I have a debit card and credit card so I can avoid carrying cash, damnit.

My business GETS business from places like that. It's really stupid of them to turn away people who want to give you money, not to mention illegal.

Aug 2, 2009#37

Shegokigo

Bowielee said:
I think it was a funny "protest" but the fact that they wasted police time is extremely irksome to me.

He didn't waste the police's time. She did by not accepting the tender.

Aug 2, 2009#38

Bowielee

Shegokigo said:
Bowielee said:

I think it was a funny "protest" but the fact that they wasted police time is extremely irksome to me.

Click to expand...

He didn't waste the police's time. She did by not accepting the tender.

She's not the one who called the police, he is.

Aug 2, 2009#39

Shegokigo

Bowielee said:
Shegokigo said:

Bowielee said:

I think it was a funny "protest" but the fact that they wasted police time is extremely irksome to me.

Click to expand...

He didn't waste the police's time. She did by not accepting the tender.

Click to expand...

She's not the one who called the police, he is.

Because of her actions, he even warned her and she says "Go Ahead".

Aug 2, 2009#40

Bowielee

Yes, but it was a situation that he intentionally created. She didn't waste the police's time, he did.

Aug 2, 2009#41

Shegokigo

Um, again. No? Had she cooperated and followed the law there would have been no issue.

What you're saying here is anyone reporting the law being broken is wasting the police's time?

Aug 2, 2009#42

Hailey Knight

Shegokigo said:
Um, again. No? Had she cooperated and followed the law there would have been no issue.

What you're saying here is anyone reporting the law being broken is wasting the police's time?

Now you know your victims will be blamed for calling 9-1-1. I mean, geez. Police upholding the law. That is not what they're paid to... erm....

Aug 2, 2009#43

Bowielee

There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some dick's practical joke.

Aug 2, 2009#44

Shegokigo

That doesn't change the original argument. He wasn't the reason they had to be involved.

Aug 2, 2009#45

CrimsonSoul

Bowielee said:
There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some *'s practical joke.

but it WAS an actual crime...

Aug 2, 2009#46

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
Yes, but it was a situation that he intentionally created. She didn't waste the police's time, he did.

I agree. This guy was intentionally being a jerk, period. He was taking his frustration out, and chose a very poor way of doing it. He didn't have to pay in pennies, he did so specifically to harass the towing company. The police should not have sided with him. I don't care if it is legal tender, it's absurdity. Just because it's the letter of the law does not mean it's acceptable behavior. If he wanted to make a protest, he should have taken another route to do so.

Is no one going to answer my previous question about getting paid, yourself, in pennies? Despite the joke, it was a serious question. If someone owed you money, how large an amount of pennies would it take for you to consider it non-payment? Would a ton of pennies (2,000lbs. or $3,680) sitting in your driveway change your mind? Or would you consider it payment of the debt, even if it cost you hundreds of dollars to get it carted away and counted?

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:21 pm --

CrimsonSoul said:
but it WAS an actual crime...

That's debateable. Until there is actual legal precedent, where someone was successfully sued for not taking payment in pennies, it's not necessarily what is supposed to be enforced. Even beyond that, it's probably a cival mater and not a criminal one. The situation could have easily been solved without involving the police. No one's health or welfare was in danger, and the guy trying to pay the fine could have solved it faster than calling the police, simply by exchanging the money himself.

Aug 2, 2009#47

Hailey Knight

figmentPez said:
I agree. This guy was intentionally being a jerk, period. He was taking his frustration out, and chose a very poor way of doing it. He didn't have to pay in pennies, he did so specifically to harass the towing company. The police should not have sided with him. I don't care if it is legal tender, it's absurdity. Just because it's the letter of the law does not mean it's acceptable behavior. If he wanted to make a protest, he should have taken another route to do so.

So? I agree. It was absurd, rude, unacceptable behavior. It's also the law. The law does not equal justice. They are not the same and they never will be. The police were not there to dispense justice; they were there to uphold the law. Law is not about what's right; it's about rules.

Aug 2, 2009#48

Shegokigo

figmentPez said:
I agree. This guy was intentionally being a jerk, period. He was taking his frustration out, and chose a very poor way of doing it. He didn't have to pay in pennies, he did so specifically to harass the towing company. The police should not have sided with him. I don't care if it is legal tender, it's absurdity. Just because it's the letter of the law does not mean it's acceptable behavior. If he wanted to make a protest, he should have taken another route to do so.

So if someone is being a jerk, they're not entitled to law enforcement's assistance?

Gotcha.

If I'm ever mugged, I'll try and be respectful and kind to the mugger.

Aug 2, 2009#49

Hailey Knight

In my employment I read hundreds, probably thousands of court cases. Justice is not the law. It's unfortunate, and I've seen judges trying their best to work with people who are unfortunately wronged by the law. I never want to be a judge, because honestly, many of them feel like scum at the end of the day for what they have to enforce. It's sad, but it is the system.

Aug 2, 2009#50

figmentPez

escushion said:
So? I agree. It was absurd, rude, unacceptable behavior. It's also the law. The law does not equal justice. They are not the same and they never will be. The police were not there to dispense justice; they were there to uphold the law. Law is not about what's right; it's about rules.

Yes, and what the law dictates that the police do in a situation like this is not clear. They should not have been called at all, because there was no need for a police officer. The situation was not violent, no one's health or welfare was at stake, and there were many ways to resolve the situation without involving the police. The young man who wanted to pay his fine had many options besides calling the police. He could have exchanged the pennies himself, and paid the fine with folding money. He could have called a lawyer and used that method of persuasion. He could have asked to see a supervisor. Simply put, he was intent on being a jerk, and I see no rational reason why the police or the law should assist him in doing so, even if the letter of the law is on his side. I realize that the law is about rules, but I also realize that is not the ideal of the law, it is not the goal of the system, even if it is often the result.

Aug 2, 2009#51

Shegokigo

Or you know, she could have followed the law and taken the legal tender. :slywink:

The argument here isn't whether the police needed to be involved. It's who was the cause of them having to be there.

Aug 2, 2009#52

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
Or you know, she could have followed the law and taken the legal tender. :slywink:

Actually, as stated earlier, if a busniess has a right to add a surcharge for handling of money, then his pennies were not enough to pay the debt, and she had no obligation to accept partial payment.

Aug 2, 2009#53

Bowielee

Shegokigo said:
Or you know, she could have followed the law and taken the legal tender. :slywink:

The argument here isn't whether the police needed to be involved. It's who was the cause of them having to be there.

No, actually that's my argument. the entire situation was a waste of police resources for no good reason.

Especially because the guy who had his car towed can hardly take the moral high ground seeing as it's his fault his car was towed in the first place.

Aug 2, 2009#54

Shegokigo

Again, if it were a private business. Sure.

Government mandated? Nope.

Bowielee said:
No, actually that's my argument. the entire situation was a waste of police resources for no good reason.

I agree. What I don't agree with is who you're blaming. You're honestly saying the person breaking the law isn't the one who is responsible for the police being involved?

Bowielee said:
Especially because the guy who had his car towed can hardly take the moral high ground seeing as it's his fault his car was towed in the first place.

So now if you're of "no morals" you don't deserve law enforcement?

Your opinons are getting more interesting by the minute.

Aug 2, 2009#55

Tinwhistler

Bowielee said:
There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some dick's practical joke.

Except, hey, it was an actual crime, albeit not a violent one. Regardless of how much of a dick move you thought it was, the guy was within his rights to settle a contractual debt with any form of legal tender he so chose. If the business whom he owes the debt to chooses not to accept legal tender, and forces him to call the police, that's the business wasting the police's time, by trying to force the guy to do something he's not required to do: Roll pennies, pay in folding money, etc.

Aug 2, 2009#56

Bowielee

Tinwhistler said:
Bowielee said:

There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some *'s practical joke.

Click to expand...

Except, hey, it was an actual crime, albeit not a violent one.

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

Aug 2, 2009#57

Shegokigo

Bowielee said:
People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

Because she gave in. Oh, and Tin already posted why it's a crime.

Aug 2, 2009#58

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
The argument here isn't whether the police needed to be involved. It's who was the cause of them having to be there.

The police didn't need to be involved, even if the cashier was in the wrong. There were other options available to resolve the matter.

Aug 2, 2009#59

Shegokigo

figmentPez said:
Shegokigo said:

The argument here isn't whether the police needed to be involved. It's who was the cause of them having to be there.

Click to expand...

The police didn't need to be involved, even if the cashier was in the wrong. There were other options available to resolve the matter.

Like her accepting the funds and following the law? Why did he have to pursue other options if he was within his legal right?

Aug 2, 2009#60

Tinwhistler

Bowielee said:
Tinwhistler said:

Bowielee said:

There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some *'s practical joke.

Click to expand...

Except, hey, it was an actual crime, albeit not a violent one.

Click to expand...

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

Aug 2, 2009#61

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

How about you cite legal precedent, instead of just a statute. That little snippet says nothing about how the law is to actually be applied. It also doesn't show if there are any exceptions elsewhere in the code, which may or may not provide for reasonable limitations on how debts are to be paid.

Aug 2, 2009#62

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
Tinwhistler said:

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

Click to expand...

How about you cite legal precedent, instead of just a statute. That little snippet says nothing about how the law is to actually be applied. It also doesn't show if there are any exceptions elsewhere in the code, which may or may not provide for reasonable limitations on how debts are to be paid.

Thompson v. Butler, 95 U.S. 694, 696

A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value any more than coin.

Legal precident that coin money is worth exactly the same as folding money in terms of paying a debt.

Aug 2, 2009#63

Shegokigo

figmentPez said:
Tinwhistler said:

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

Click to expand...

How about you cite legal precedent, instead of just a statute. That little snippet says nothing about how the law is to actually be applied. It also doesn't show if there are any exceptions elsewhere in the code, which may or may not provide for reasonable limitations on how debts are to be paid.

So if I've never seen a legal precedent saying so, I can go knock over a liquor store because the statute doesn't specify "liquor stores"? :rofl:

Aug 2, 2009#64

Bowielee

Tinwhistler said:
Bowielee said:

Tinwhistler said:

Bowielee said:

There's a big difference between responding to an actual crime and supporting some *'s practical joke.

Click to expand...

Except, hey, it was an actual crime, albeit not a violent one.

Click to expand...

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

Click to expand...

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

As Figmentpez linked earlier.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

Aug 2, 2009#65

Tinwhistler

or how about:
Crummey v. Klein Independent School District

Regardless of any currency confusion that may have arisen in bygone eras, our present standard is clear: As legal tender, a dollar is a dollar...As legal tender, a dollar is a dollar, regardless of the physical embodiment of the currency.

in this case, it was about 50 dollar golden eagles. The court held that the coins were worth exactly $50 in the payment of a debt, and it didn't matter that they were coins.

Bowielee said:
(citing figment's article)

Read up, I already addressed that. The guy WAS ALLOWED to pay his bill in pennies, just as the lawyer was allowed to bill him for the pain in the ass in doing so. The precedent shows that he can pay in pennies.

Aug 2, 2009#66

Shegokigo

Bowielee said:
Tinwhistler said:

Bowielee said:

Tinwhistler said:

Except, hey, it was an actual crime, albeit not a violent one.

Click to expand...

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

Click to expand...

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

Click to expand...

As Figmentpez linked earlier.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

Missing the point again Bowie. That's just an assistance to Tin's argument. The coin is still legal tender and must be taken.

Whether someone wants to charge them for the hassle later is a different argument all together.

Aug 2, 2009#67

Hylian

Espy said:
Here's a fun fact: Have you ever been to a coffee shop or gas station where they won't let you use a credit card if you don't by 5 bucks worth of stuff?
Yeah... they can't do that.
It violates the contract they sign with the credit cart company. Now you might not be able to stop them, I guess you could call your credit card company and tell them a business won't accept your VISA card and they will probably go after them, but it's just a little scam by these places to get you to buy more and for them to avoid paying the fee for using credit cards.

yeah I have several stored near me that do that and it drives me insane.

Aug 2, 2009#68

Tinwhistler

So, now we have three law cases that show that payment is coin is legal tender.
Do you have any legal precedent that says that it's not?

I've jumped through your hoops. Your turn.
Find me one single case where a person was not allowed to pay via coins for a debt. One.

Aug 2, 2009#69

Shegokigo

hylian said:
yeah I have several stored near me that do that and it drives me insane.

Buy more shit then Hylian!

Aug 2, 2009#70

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
Thompson v. Butler, 95 U.S. 694, 696

A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value any more than coin.

Click to expand...

Legal precident that coin money is worth exactly the same as folding money in terms of paying a debt.

I think that's in reference to a bill backed by coin rather than a bill that is simply a promisary note. I imagine it's archaic and not applicable anymore, as I don't believe that any bills that are currently legal tender actually are backed by gold or silver in the US.

Furthermore, it makes no mention of reasonable limitations on the size of a debt that can be paid for in the smallest denomination of coin.

Aug 2, 2009#71

HCGLNS

Garbledina said:
I'm enough of an * to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Canada Currency Act said:
(2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

(a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;

(b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;

(c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;

(d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and

(e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.

Still no love for the 50 cent piece. :angry:

Aug 2, 2009#72

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
I imagine it's archaic and not applicable anymore, as I don't believe that any bills that are currently legal tender actually

Wait wait wait.

I have to find actual legal precedent that coins are considered legal tender, and we have to go by your IMAGINATION?

Find me a case.

Aug 2, 2009#73

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
So if I've never seen a legal precedent saying so, I can go knock over a liquor store because the statute doesn't specify "liquor stores"?

Doesn't matter if you've seen it or not, the fact is that there is plenty of legal precedent to support that robbing a liquor store is just as much robbery of any other establishment. Nor have you asserted any reasonable logic as to why it would not be considered theft to steal from a store, regardless of what it sells.

Aug 2, 2009#74

Bowielee

Shegokigo said:
Bowielee said:

Tinwhistler said:

Bowielee said:

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see a precident. If it was a crime, why wasn't the girl arrested?

Click to expand...

How bout I just show you the law, numbskull?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/5103.shtml

Click to expand...

As Figmentpez linked earlier.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

Click to expand...

Missing the point again Bowie. That's just an assistance to Tin's argument. The coin is still legal tender and must be taken.

Whether someone wants to charge them for the hassle later is a different argument all together.

You obviously didn't read the article. The lawyer refused to take the payments in pennies. And the judge upheld that decision and fined him for basically wasting the court's time.

The long and the short of it, is that this guy created a situation where he would be wasting police's time. My original problem with this is the fact that while the police are being jerked around at this tow playce, real serieous crimes could be being ignored.
'
And yes, it is all his fault as he began the situation that started this by parking illegally in the first place.

Aug 2, 2009#75

Tinwhistler

Bowielee said:
You obviously didn't read the article. The lawyer refused to take the payments in pennies. And the judge upheld that decision and fined him for basically wasting the court's time.

WRONG.

Tarlton [the lawyer] testified that after he tracked down the "originating bank ... that gave or sold Mr. Powell the pennies," the bank agreed to redeem the pounds of pennies for a price. Tarlton was seeking reimbursement for the $100 bank redemption fee and an additional "$412.44" -- the "2.7496" hours he spent redeeming the pennies at his "non-court rate of $150 an hour."

The lawyer redeemed the pennies.
He then billed the guy $512.44, which the court upheld.
Look twice before claiming someone else has a problem with reading comprehension

Aug 2, 2009#76

Bowielee

Tinwhistler said:
Bowielee said:

You obviously didn't read the article. The lawyer refused to take the payments in pennies. And the judge upheld that decision and fined him for basically wasting the court's time.

Click to expand...

WRONG.

Tarlton [the lawyer] testified that after he tracked down the "originating bank ... that gave or sold Mr. Powell the pennies," the bank agreed to redeem the pounds of pennies for a price. Tarlton was seeking reimbursement for the $100 bank redemption fee and an additional "$412.44" -- the "2.7496" hours he spent redeeming the pennies at his "non-court rate of $150 an hour."

Click to expand...

The lawyer redeemed the pennies.
Look twice before claiming someone else has a problem with reading comprehension

He did because the guy just left them in his lobby and refused to take them away.

Aug 2, 2009#77

Tinwhistler

Bowielee said:
He did because the guy just left them in his lobby and refused to take them away.

So? he took the $1000 in pennies, and it was applied to the guy's debt.

THE LAWYER TOOK THE PENNIES. He was required to. Just because he tried to get out of it doesn't change the fact that $1000 in pennies was upheld as a valid payment of the $1000 debt.

if someone tried to pay me a debt in pennies, I'd try to get out of it too. But if they were adamant, I'd be forced to take the pennies.

Aug 2, 2009#78

Hailey Knight

figmentPez said:
Furthermore, it makes no mention of reasonable limitations on the size of a debt that can be paid for in the smallest denomination of coin.

"Hmm, this law doesn't take into account that someone will use it to be a douchebag. Therefore, it's not really a law."

Aug 2, 2009#79

Shegokigo

I have a feeling that Figment and Bowie are pulling a JCM and flat out ignoring facts because their personal opinion is immovable.

I'm still waiting for Figment to show legal precident of his side of this, specially since Tin already did. Twice.

Aug 2, 2009#80

Bowielee

Fine you all are right. The letter of the law should always be enforced. Have fun with the police state.

Aug 2, 2009#81

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
figmentPez said:

I imagine it's archaic and not applicable anymore, as I don't believe that any bills that are currently legal tender actually

Click to expand...

Wait wait wait.

I have to find actual legal precedent that coins are considered legal tender, and we have to go by your IMAGINATION?

Find me a case.

*SIGH* I give up, I don't have the time to waste on this. If you want to believe that the US never discontinued the printing of money backed by gold and silver, and stopped allowing silver certificates to be redeemed for silver, I'm not going to try and disillusion you. You're welcome to attempt to pay in confederate money while you're at it. You're also welcome to try and have me arrested if you ever try and pull some sort of dumb stunt like the moron in the video did. I won't be taking your pennies, and I don't care what you think the law says.

From the US Treasury Department website:
"There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy."
Is anyone certain this towing company was government, and not a private contractor?

THE LAWYER TOOK THE PENNIES. He was required to.

I don't recall the article saying he was required to, merely that he did.

Aug 2, 2009#82

Tinwhistler

Shegokigo said:
I have a feeling that Figment and Bowie are pulling a JCM and flat out ignoring facts because their personal opinion is immovable.

I'm still waiting for Figment to show legal precident of his side of this, specially since Tin already did. Twice.

The full relavant paragraph (emphases mine) of Thompson v. Butler, 95 U.S. 694, 696, which was a supreme court case:

We have no jurisdiction if the sum or value of the matter in dispute does not exceed $5,000. One
owing a debt may pay it in good coin or legal- tender notes of the United States, as he chooses, unless
there is something to the contrary in the obligation out of which the debt arises. A coin dollar is worth
no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar.

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:02 pm --

figmentPez said:
Tinwhistler said:

Find me a case.

Click to expand...

*SIGH* I give up, I don't have the time to waste on this.

LOL! Why am I not surprised?

Aug 2, 2009#83

Bowielee

figmentPez said:
From the US Treasury Department website:
\"There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.\"
Is anyone certain this towing company was government, and not a private contractor?

The states don't own any towing companies, they contract with private companies.

Aug 2, 2009#84

Tinwhistler

Bowielee said:
figmentPez said:

From the US Treasury Department website:
\"There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.\"
Is anyone certain this towing company was government, and not a private contractor?

Click to expand...

The states don't own any towing companies, they contract with private companies.

Read up. There's more to that site, which I quote above. He omits an entire paragraph from the treasury department website that discusses debts and contractual obligations. Legal tender must be accepted for those. Find me legal precedent where coinage was refused for a debt. So far, all three cases we discuss, coins were perfectly acceptable for a debt, including the supreme court's opinion that a person may pay a debt in coin or folding money, AS THEY CHOOSE.

Aug 2, 2009#85

Hailey Knight

Bowielee said:
Fine you all are right. The letter of the law should always be enforced. Have fun with the police state.

If a law is wrong, it should be changed. However, you know perfectly well that society isn't going to function with people running around going "Well, I see what's written, but I know what the law really means" or "I know what laws should be enforced, even if other people don't" or "I like these laws, but not those laws, and police can enforce whichever laws they like and not the ones they don't." Then you turn law into... well, religion, pretty much.

If a law is a problem, it has to go through the system of courts or lawmakers to the point where it can be changed. That's not to be done by police responding to a call. They are upholding the law, not making it up as they go.

Aug 2, 2009#86

Tinwhistler

no, no. escushion. Just ask figment....supreme court decisions go bad if they're old. You know, like an avocado or something.

Aug 2, 2009#87

Shegokigo

Oh noes!

Aug 2, 2009#88

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
The full relavant paragraph (emphases mine) of Thompson v. Butler, 95 U.S. 694, 696, which was a supreme court case:

We have no jurisdiction if the sum or value of the matter in dispute does not exceed $5,000. One
owing a debt may pay it in good coin or legal- tender notes of the United States, as he chooses, unless
there is something to the contrary in the obligation out of which the debt arises. A coin dollar is worth
no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar.

Click to expand...

You're citing a case where the conflict was over payment in bills versus gold and silver coin. Bills that were, in 1877, backed by gold and silver, and had a different value in the market than their coin equivalents, despite that. The ruling has absolutely no bearing on the difference between 8,800 pennies and an equivalent amount in bills, because the substantial difference is not in market value, but in weather it is a reasonable manner in which to pay a debt.

-- Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:13 pm --

Shegokigo said:
I'm still waiting for Figment to show legal precident of his side of this, specially since Tin already did. Twice.

No, he has not. He has successfully bluffed you into thinking he has found relevant cases, but despite the quotes sounding good, the context does not uphold his position.

*sigh* we live in a sound-bite society where context holds no sway.

Aug 2, 2009#89

Shegokigo

figmentPez said:
No, he has not. He has successfully bluffed you into thinking he has found relevant cases, but despite the quotes sounding good, the context does not uphold his position.

*sigh* we live in a sound-bite society where context holds no sway.

And your "proof" is where? Since we're not going in context here.

Aug 2, 2009#90

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
The Supreme Court said:

One owing a debt may pay it in good coin or legal-tender notes of the United States, as he chooses

Click to expand...

You're citing a case where the conflict was over payment in bills versus gold and silver coin. Bills that were, in 1877, backed by gold and silver, and had a different value in the market than their coin equivalents, despite that. The ruling has absolutely no bearing on the difference between 8,800 pennies and an equivalent amount in bills, because the substantial difference is not in market value, but in weather it is a reasonable manner in which to pay a debt.

The wording is unambiguous. Try to talk it away all you like, you have yet to show a case that sets contrary legal precedent.

C'mon now..We've discussed three cases so far in which coins were considered legal tender for a debt.
Come on..show me just one in which the opposite is true.

Aug 2, 2009#91

Garbledina

HCGLNS said:
Garbledina said:

I'm enough of an * to do something like that, so I think I'm also willing to find the humour in it if someone did that to me, too.

However, I recently learned that in Alberta, apparently it is against the law to pay for something greater than $1 in only pennies, unless it is a government payment (taxes, fines, etc.). I wonder if the penalty for it is a fine, though, because you could then pay *that* in all pennies.

Click to expand...

Canada Currency Act said:

(2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

(a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;

(b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;

(c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;

(d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and

(e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.

Click to expand...

Still no love for the 50 cent piece. :angry:

Huh so it's even less than I was told. Neat. Well keeps us from too much counting I guess.

Also, perhaps it just means you can pay for anything in any amount with 50 cent pieces.

Aug 2, 2009#92

I got exactly 30 seconds into this video.

Douchecandy.

The end.

Aug 2, 2009#93

Silver Jelly

I have a lot of eurocents lying around, and I always think of using them, but I'm afraid.

Aug 2, 2009#94

Necronic

Anyone else read this "Playing with Penises?"

Aug 2, 2009#95

Shegokigo

Nope.

Aug 2, 2009#96

Necronic

Too bad.

Aug 2, 2009#97

Shegokigo said:
Nope.

Aug 2, 2009#98

crono1224

I read it as playing with pennies, but it was a lot more disappointing. I was a pizza delivery driver for a while and it annoyed me greatly when people would pay 3+ dollars in small coins. I think i delivered a 19$ order, got 5 dollars in paper, and 14$ in a bag of random coins. Wanna know why that pisses me off cause they could have easily shorted me a dollar or two, and no I don't have time to sit there and count it, if its a busy time I am lossing money on deliveries.

To why we still use pennies I am sure its easy enough to round, 1-2 goes to 0, 3-4 goes to 5. I mean lets be honest how many people bend over to pick up a penny.

Aug 2, 2009#99

figmentPez

Utah man tries to pay traffic fine with $82 in pennies.

"Court officials are apparently not amused, and have asked Petersen to come back in and offer a more "acceptable" form of payment. They say state policy allows clerks to reject unusual forms of payment, and it's going to waste county resources for someone to count all that change."

Aug 2, 2009#100

JCM

After it became popular here to pay stuff with coins in protest, most businesses have started posting clear limits of how much they'll accept.

Aug 2, 2009#101

Shegokigo

figmentPez said:
Utah man tries to pay traffic fine with $82 in pennies.

\"Court officials are apparently not amused, and have asked Petersen to come back in and offer a more \"acceptable\" form of payment. They say state policy allows clerks to reject unusual forms of payment, and it's going to waste county resources for someone to count all that change.\"

What part of "Private companies" and "state government" are different rules didn't you get?

Aug 2, 2009#102

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
What part of "Private companies" and "state government" are different rules didn't you get?

The part where there's some difference in the rules? The government can require reasonable payment, and private companies can require reasonable payment.

Aug 2, 2009#103

Shegokigo

Government agencies CANNOT refuse payment of any legal tender in the form of collection or debt.

Private companies CAN.

That's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Aug 2, 2009#104

figmentPez

Shegokigo said:
Government agencies CANNOT refuse payment of any legal tender in the form of collection or debt.

That's exactly what happened in the news story I quoted. The court refused payment of a traffic fine because it was in all pennies. Loose pennies was considered an unusual method of payment and was an allowed refusal. (Another story I found apparently specifies that in Utah payment in pennies must be rolled, and then the rolls signed and labled with the case number.)

Aug 2, 2009#105

HCGLNS

Instead of pennies, both guys should have paid in Zachary Taylor dollars.

Aug 2, 2009#106

wana10

anecdote that may or may not apply

first time i went to get a u.s. passport they were turning a guy away because they wouldn't accept cash as payment

Aug 2, 2009#107

Baerdog

wana10 said:
anecdote that may or may not apply

first time i went to get a u.s. passport they were turning a guy away because they wouldn't accept cash as payment

This anecdote inspires me to pay for my passport in cash, using reasonably-sized bills and exact change just to see what happens.

Aug 2, 2009#108

Seraphyn

Silver Jelly said:
I have a lot of eurocents lying around, and I always think of using them, but I'm afraid.

You guys still use those? We dropped the 1 cents over here, due to being simply worth too little to matter.

Aug 2, 2009#109

mikerc

Silver Jelly said:
I have a lot of eurocents lying around, and I always think of using them, but I'm afraid.

As long as you don't go above 50 coins per transaction you're fine

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1998:139:0001:0005:EN:PDF

Aug 3, 2009#110

Le Quack

I don't blame the guy for being a dick at all. I don't give a shit if it was his fault he got towed. People that tow cars are dickholes, period. They deserved this.

ALSO!

I like to call this the "trickle up" effect. All the dickish shit that was given to the lady will trickle up to the other employees.

Aug 3, 2009#111

crono1224

Le Quack said:
I don't blame the guy for being a * at all. I don't give a poop if it was his fault he got towed. People that tow cars are *, period. They deserved this.

ALSO!

I like to call this the "trickle up" effect. All the * poop that was given to the lady will trickle up to the other employees.

He is a dick, took it out on a random cashier, who now had to put up with something that wasn't her fault, probably the same as you not being able to turn on your computer cause it wasn't plugged in than bitching at a customer service rep.

He messed up, whether he likes it or not he took it a tad too far.

I also don't see how people that tow cars are dicks, its their job, and depending on where the car is illegally parked it maybe very imparative that it is towed.

Aug 3, 2009#112

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
Shegokigo said:

Government agencies CANNOT refuse payment of any legal tender in the form of collection or debt.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what happened in the news story I quoted. The court refused payment of a traffic fine because it was in all pennies. Loose pennies was considered an unusual method of payment and was an allowed refusal. (Another story I found apparently specifies that in Utah payment in pennies must be rolled, and then the rolls signed and labled with the case number.)

And it looks like that guy's case hasn't made it through the courts and had a final resolution.

You've had a day now. Can't you find me one legal case that comes down on your side of the argument? Or are you going to continue to just try to get by on bluster?

wana10 said:
anecdote that may or may not apply

first time i went to get a u.s. passport they were turning a guy away because they wouldn't accept cash as payment

It wasn't a debt. It doesn't apply.

Aug 3, 2009#113

Espy

Le Quack said:
I don't blame the guy for being a * at all. I don't give a poop if it was his fault he got towed. People that tow cars are *, period. They deserved this.

Are they dicks cause they tow cars or are they dicks towing cars? There is an important distinction there.

Aug 3, 2009#114

Shegokigo

Espy said:
Le Quack said:

I don't blame the guy for being a * at all. I don't give a poop if it was his fault he got towed. People that tow cars are *, period. They deserved this.

Click to expand...

Are they dicks cause they tow cars or are they dicks towing cars? There is an important distinction there.

No. They tow cars WITH their dicks. :Leyla:

Aug 3, 2009#115

Espy

Well DAMN.

Aug 3, 2009#116

drawn_inward

Not funny at all. Punk-ass, prick. Dick move, frat boy. :slap:

Aug 3, 2009#117

Bubble181

In Belgium, there are several test caes going on about dropping the €0.01 and €0.02 coins all together. But no, they haven't, officially, been dropped yet. However, shops and businesses are no longer obliged to accept them.

Still. There not being any violence or whatever is no reason t say it isn't a crime, or that police shouldn't get involved. If someone parks in front of my garage, and I need to leave, and he refuses to move, I WILL call the cops and have him towed. Still a crime, still a need for police intervention.

Aug 3, 2009#118

figmentPez

Bubble181 said:
Still. There not being any violence or whatever is no reason t say it isn't a crime, or that police shouldn't get involved. If someone parks in front of my garage, and I need to leave, and he refuses to move, I WILL call the cops and have him towed. Still a crime, still a need for police intervention.

That is a good point, but what are your other options in that case? I honestly can't think of any. If you've already asked politely, then there's nothing left for you to do but call the authorities to have the car moved. The guy in the video still had other options besides calling the police.

Aug 3, 2009#119

Shegokigo said:
Espy said:

Are they dicks cause they tow cars or are they dicks towing cars? There is an important distinction there.

Click to expand...

No. They tow cars WITH their dicks.

And now there's spit on my laptop, excellent. When you replace my computer you can pay in pennies though.

Aug 3, 2009#120

Bowielee

ZenMonkey said:
Shegokigo said:

Espy said:

Are they * cause they tow cars or are they * towing cars? There is an important distinction there.

Click to expand...

No. They tow cars WITH their *.

Click to expand...

And now there's spit on my laptop, excellent. When you replace my computer you can pay in pennies though.

Aug 3, 2009#121

FROM LAUGHING.

Sheeesh. :slywink:

Aug 3, 2009#122

Bowielee

I actually meant about tow trucks being an extention of a man's phalus, but OK.

Aug 3, 2009#123

Bowielee said:
I actually meant about tow trucks being an extention of a man's phalus, but OK.

Ah, well, since you quoted me as well I thought you were implying something.

Which of course I now realize you would never do.

Aug 3, 2009#124

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
Bubble181 said:

Still. There not being any violence or whatever is no reason t say it isn't a crime, or that police shouldn't get involved. If someone parks in front of my garage, and I need to leave, and he refuses to move, I WILL call the cops and have him towed. Still a crime, still a need for police intervention.

Click to expand...

That is a good point, but what are your other options in that case? I honestly can't think of any. If you've already asked politely, then there's nothing left for you to do but call the authorities to have the car moved. The guy in the video still had other options besides calling the police.

And what if the guy said "I'll only move my car if you sing "I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-General"?"

IE: said "I'll quit breaking the law if you do something for me that you are in no way obligated to do"

That's the position you're advocating here. Because you think the guy pulled a dick move (and don't get me wrong, I do too), you seem willing to sacrifice the rule of law in the cashier's favor. That, to me, is very dangerous ground. The rule of law is not flexible.

I note, for the record, you still haven't found a court case that allows debtors to refuse coinage in payment.

Aug 3, 2009#125

Pojodan

Actually, the best way to be truly troublesome when it comes to paying is to do the following:

1) Pay part of the transaction with cash, bonus points for using $2 bills and dollar coins
2) Pay another part of the transaction with a check. Try to use temp checks (The kind that only have your account on it and no name or address) first, but have regular checks on hand.. say you wanted to use them up
3) Pay another part of the transaction with a credit card and refuse to use an electronic device, stating concerns of privacy so they have to bring out their manual card swiper from the back
4) Have a small amount left over within which you offer the options of: Foreign currency, travelers check, IOU, or to search your car seats for change.
5) Request itemized receipt of the transaction for tax purposes.
6) Smile really big the whole time.

Aug 3, 2009#126

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
And what if the guy said \"I'll only move my car if you sing \"I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-General\"?\"

IE: said \"I'll quit breaking the law if you do something for me that you are in no way obligated to do\"

That's the position you're advocating here. Because you think the guy pulled a dick move (and don't get me wrong, I do too), you seem willing to sacrifice the rule of law in the cashier's favor. That, to me, is very dangerous ground. The rule of law is not flexible.

The rule of law is quite flexible, police offers and judges are given a fair amount of leeway in how they apply the law. If they were not, every person pulled over for speeding would be given a ticket. No one would be let off with a warning.

Furthermore, your analogy is not apt. In the case in the video, the one trying to abuse the letter of the law is the one trying to exact extra effort (getting the cashier to handle the pennies), in your demanded singing example, it is the one who is already breaking the law who is trying to exact further trouble, beyond what is required. Note that the boy in the video never asked politely for coins to be accepted, never gave a reason why he was paying in coin, and was rude from the very start. He jumped straight to a threat to call the police, instead of trying to work the situation out in a reasonable manner. Having the coins wrapped and easy to handle would have been the polite thing to do, as would moving the car. Demanding that another person do extra effort to accomodate you for no reason is not polite, regardless if you have a legal right to cause them to do the extra work. If someone had come in to pay and pennies was all they had to make the payment with, and politely asked for the circumstance to be excused is a completely different situation than someone intentionally trying to cause troule. Yes, even legally, as motivation does play a factor in how the law is applied.

I note, for the record, you still haven't found a court case that allows debtors to refuse coinage in payment.

So what? I'm not a lawyer, I don't have access to a law library or anything. It's not like I could convince you anyway, since you stand behind your examples which I still hold are not applicable to the case at hand. You say that the wording is clear, while ignoring the context. The ruling revolves around the difference between payment in gold coin, and payment in paper money, and the ruling says that if the distinction had been between gold and silver, both coins, they would have still ruled in favor of gold, because the contract said "gold". So, it's declaration that the law sees no difference between a paper bill and a coin results from their face value under in the eyes of the governemnt, just as the government saw silver and gold coins as equal regardless of market value. Thus, it says nothing about weather they are a reasonable way to make payment of a debt. My argument is not that pennies lack the face value to appease the debt, but that a box full of unwrapped pennies is not a reasonable manner in which to settle such a large debt. As such, a ruling saying that coins and bills have equal montetary value should not effect if the actions of a person's actions constitute reasonable effort to pay the debt.

I should have cited it earlier but this article says:

Gilmore then informed Prosser the court accepts coins as legal tender — as long as they are wrapped correctly. The court would even supply the 300 wrappers it would take to wrap all of his pennies. It turns out people have tried this before, although not in this amount, Gilmore said.

So it would have to wait until another day — Monday — when Prosser came back to the court with his $150 in pennies, this time wrapped, with his name, phone number and citation number written on each roll, as specified by the court.

Sounds like the court has worked out it's standards by which payment can be made in coins, and has a very exact policy. Coins must be wrapped and properly labeled to be accepted. They must be offered in a reasonable manner, and they have the right to refuse payment offered unreasonably.

EDIT:
Looks like Iowa has a similar policy when paying taxes.
"Cash or coin - accepted only in reasonable denominations - coin or cash in small denominations considered unreasonable payment by the treasurer or treasurer’s staff, will be refused."

New Mexico doesn't accept coins at all in payment of bail bonds, why should the requirements for freeing a car be more lenient than for freeing a person?
"The court may set a policy that the cash bail may be posted by personal check, cashiers check, or money order in addition to cash. The policy on cash bonds may include the acceptance of reasonable denominations of currency and with no acceptance of coin. This policy should be posted in a public view."

Aug 3, 2009#127

Le Quack

On my university campus you have to pay outrageous amounts of money for an "okay" parking spot. It takes 15-20 mins to walk from the campus parking lot to classes. It takes 15-20 minutes for the bus to reach your parking spot.

They can go fuck themselves if they want to tow my car when the whole parking scheme is a huge scam to get more money.

I have zero sympathy for anybody working for a tow truck company.

Aug 3, 2009#128

Espy

I note, for the record, you still haven't found a court case that "insert here"

I'm going to use that in every discussion I have on here. It's as good or better then [citation needed].

Le Quack said:
On my university campus you have to pay outrageous amounts of money for an "okay" parking spot. It takes 15-20 mins to walk from the campus parking lot to classes. It takes 15-20 minutes for the bus to reach your parking spot.

They can go smurf themselves if they want to tow my car when the whole parking scheme is a huge scam to get more money.

I have zero sympathy for anybody working for a tow truck company.

...
You do know the tow truck company doesn't make the parking rules don't you?

Aug 3, 2009#129

Tinwhistler

figmentPez said:
The rule of law is quite flexible, police offers and judges are given a fair amount of leeway in how they apply the law. If they were not, every person pulled over for speeding would be given a ticket. No one would be let off with a warning.

Bad analogy. In most states, traffic citations are civil infractions, and not crimes.

-- Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:45 pm --

Espy said:
I note, for the record, you still haven't found a court case that "insert here"

Click to expand...

I'm going to use that in every discussion I have on here. It's as good or better then [citation needed].

Well, after the hue and cry of "find me a precedent!" it seems a little funny that when I did, and then asked for the return favor, these guys suddenly can't be bothered.

This is me, waiting for such a legal precedent to be shown.
:tumbleweed:

For the record, Figment: Vehicle registration is not a debt. Bail bonds are not a debt.
Again, from the treasury website: "This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor."

Aug 3, 2009#130

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
figmentPez said:

The rule of law is quite flexible, police offers and judges are given a fair amount of leeway in how they apply the law. If they were not, every person pulled over for speeding would be given a ticket. No one would be let off with a warning.

Click to expand...

Okay, every suspect questioned for an unrelated case would have to be charged with possession, or accessory, or whatever cops can overlook if they're trying to get information on a more pressing matter. They would not be able to be grant immunity. Cops would have to arrest people for assault if they had bloody knuckles from self defense. Do you really think there is no leniency or common sense used at any time in the legal system? Good grief.

Aug 3, 2009#131

Espy

I'm not disagreeing with you for the record, it's just that I'm quite tickled by that sentence. It's quite lovely.

Aug 3, 2009#132

figmentPez

Tinwhistler said:
For the record, Figment: Vehicle registration is not a debt. Bail bonds are not a debt.
Again, from the treasury website: "This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor."

Propery taxes are a debt.

EDIT:
Damn, you're just trying to be a dick, aren't you.
"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Bail is a public charge, if I'm not mistaken, as is vehicle registration, if it's not a due, and property taxes certainly fall under taxes. Despite that, states refuse payment in small denominations as unreasonable.

Aug 3, 2009#133

figmentPez

Quick history lesson. Does anyone know why coins had to be declared "legal tender for all..."? (They weren't always.) It's because coins like pennies, nickels, quarters, etc were never backed by silver or gold as bills were at one time. They didn't have the same legal standing as money that bills originally did. When bills ceased to be backed by bouillon the distinction between bills coins under the law became irrelevant, so it was declared that coins would have the same value as bills. Before that point, a penny was only worth 1/100th of a dollar by convention, not by weight of law. (In fact, I would not be surprised if there were times when it took more than 100 pennies to equal the worth of a dollar backed by silver or gold.) The law declaring coins to be legal tender is not a declaration that they have to be accepted in any amount, but that they have to be accepted at their face value, with full value respective to dollars.

Aug 3, 2009#134

Bubble181

figmentPez said:
When bills ceased to be backed by bouillon

They were backed by huge cannisters of soup? Cool. We backed'm with bullion - gold bars - but hey, if it worked for you odd americans...;-)

Aug 3, 2009#135

figmentPez

Bubble181 said:
figmentPez said:

When bills ceased to be backed by bouillon

Click to expand...

They were backed by huge cannisters of soup? Cool. We backed'm with bullion - gold bars - but hey, if it worked for you odd americans...;-)

Dammit! I knew that looked wrong. I should know better than to trust spell check. Bullion. In fact, looking it up, I'm not sure I know if it's accurate. Bullion means an amount of gold by weight, not by value. I'm not sure weather dollars were backed by a given weight of gold or by a given value. I think it's the former, though, since they were meant to be the equivalent of a coin.

Aug 3, 2009#136

HCGLNS

figmentPez said:
(In fact, I would not be surprised if there were times when it took more than 100 pennies to equal the worth of a dollar backed by silver or gold.)

Coins were ratified for just the opposite reason. The spike in silver prices during the 60's drove the value of silver in American coins far above their printed value. It created a hoarding phenomenom, that was corrected by removing the silver from the coins and using time travel based minting techniques to remove the demand for coins.

Aug 3, 2009#137

grub

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#In_Canada

Canadian dollar banknotes issued by the Bank of Canada are legal tender in Canada. However, commercial transactions may legally be settled in any manner agreed by the parties involved.

Some business in Canada is transacted in United States dollars, despite United States currency not being legal tender.

Legal tender of Canadian coinage is governed by the Currency Act which sets out limits of:

40 dollars if the denomination is 2 dollars or greater but does not exceed 10 dollars;
25 dollars if the denomination is 1 dollar;
10 dollars if the denomination is 10 cents or greater, but less than 1 dollar;
5 dollars if the denomination is 5 cents;
25 cents if the denomination is 1 cent.

Retailers in Canada may refuse bank notes without breaking the law. According to legal guidelines, the method of payment has to be mutually agreed upon by the parties involved with the transactions. For example, convenience stores may refuse $100 bank notes if they feel that would put them at risk of being counterfeit victims; however, official policy suggests that the retailers should evaluate the impact of that approach. In the case that no mutually acceptable form of payment can be found for the tender, the parties involved should seek legal advice.

In Canada it is illegal to pay for more than 25 cents with pennies.

Aug 3, 2009#138

HCGLNS

Still no love for the 50 cent piece. :angry:

Aug 3, 2009#139

figmentPez

HCGLNS said:
Still no love for the 50 cent piece. :angry:

A fifty cent piece is more than 10 cents, but less than a dollar. Thus it can be used to pay debts up to $10 in Canda. While it is not specifically listed, neither is a quarter.

Aug 3, 2009#140

Rob King

figmentPez said:
HCGLNS said:

Still no love for the 50 cent piece. :angry:

Click to expand...

A fifty cent piece is more than 10 cents, but less than a dollar. Thus it can be used to pay debts up to $10 in Canda. While it is not specifically listed, neither is a quarter.

Are half dollars even still minted for circulation?

I would suspect that if you presented one at many stores, it would probably be rejected. A lot of people in my generation don't have any experience with them. I got a 50 cent piece once in my life while doing my paper route, and I probably would not have recognized it if not for the fact that I had been into collecting coins at the time.

-- Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:16 pm --

grub said:
In Canada it is illegal to pay for more than 25 cents with pennies.

See ... I'm no lawyer, but when I read this a while back, I didn't interpret it like that. I more saw it as a protection against the sort of protest in the OP. Not that it's illegal to pay with more than 25 pennies, but that it's legal to refuse to accept more that 25 pennies.

But then, in earlier parts of the quoted text, it says that you can settle transactions by whatever means both parties agree to, so if a cashier doesn't agree to ... say ... 10 pennies ... what can a customer do?

Perhaps I'm not understanding.

Aug 3, 2009#141

figmentPez

Rob King said:
Are half dollars even still minted for circulation?

According to Wikipedia, the Canadian 50 cent piece is still minted.

US half dollars are apparently only minted for collectors.

-- Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:21 pm --

Aug 3, 2009#142

Hailey Knight

I actually like dollar coins. Feels like I've got pirate's gold.

Aug 3, 2009#143

Rob King

Whenever I go to the USA, several things seem backwards to me:

In some states: smoking indoors.
In some states: seatbelts not being mandatory
In some states: cellphones while driving
In the entire country: the lack of a widely used coin above 25 cent value

Aug 3, 2009#144

Viggs

You know, the guy in the video said he had $33 in the big box, and $25 in each of the smaller ones.

That's $83 dollars total, not $88. So did he rip her off?

Aug 3, 2009#145

Chazwozel

If it was the asshole who towed his car. Yes.

Since it was a lady who just works in the office. No.

Why the fuck are they being dicks to people just doing their jobs?

Aug 3, 2009#146

Shegokigo

Chazwozel said:
If it was the asshole who towed his car. Yes.

Since it was a lady who just works in the office. No.

Why the fuck are they being dicks to people just doing their jobs?

*gets thrown for a curve*
:bush:

Aug 4, 2009#147

Tinwhistler

escushion said:
I actually like dollar coins. Feels like I've got pirate's gold.

At renaissance faires, I try to take a money bag full of silver dollars, half dollars, and Sacagawea dollars, for that very reason.

Aug 4, 2009#148

Mr_Chaz

Le Quack said:
On my university campus you have to pay outrageous amounts of money for an "okay" parking spot. It takes 15-20 mins to walk from the campus parking lot to classes.

You may have zero sympathy for the tow companies, but I have zero sympathy with you. Just try walking the 15-20 minutes, it's not the end of the world, it's good for you. It was 25 minutes to university for me, and I now miss that daily walk.

Aug 4, 2009#149

Bubble181

I have a collection of silver US dollars and half dollers from somewhere in the 1880s 'till the present day. Anyone interested? (honestly, can't get rid of it

)

Aug 4, 2009#150

Shegokigo

Bubble181 said:
I have a collection of silver US dollars and half dollers from somewhere in the 1880s 'till the present day. Anyone interested? (honestly, can't get rid of it )

There's a customer in our bank, that deposits about $1400 a day in pure Half-Dollars because he's looking for the silver ones. :rofl:

Aug 4, 2009#151

Zarvox

From this article: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

It seems to me like the teller should have said, "Hey, that's cool. You can totally pay with pennies. Unfortunately, it's totally cool for me to charge a processing fee. So I'm going to have to count these pennies to make sure you gave me the right amount. And I may be bad at counting, so I may do it slowly and lose count a few times. Who knows how many hours it might take? For that matter, didn't you get a friend to drive you here? I'm pretty sure he has better things to do than wait around. Of course, if you leave, I might just loose count even more times. And you'll have to pay my hourly wage for it. And come to think of it, even if you have exact change, you don't have enough money to pay the processing fee. So come back when you have enough money."

Aug 4, 2009#152

HCGLNS

Rob King said:
I would suspect that if you presented one at many stores, it would probably be rejected. A lot of people in my generation don't have any experience with them.

They will take them if you are patient. Every now and then I like to freak out the staff at Tim Hortons by paying with 50 cent coins or a two dollar bill. Generally they all huddle together and eventually decide to accept the legal tender, typically one of the staff takes the bill and puts their own twoonie in the till.

Aug 4, 2009#153

Tinwhistler

Zarvox said:
From this article: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

It seems to me like the teller should have said, \"Hey, that's cool. You can totally pay with pennies. Unfortunately, it's totally cool for me to charge a processing fee. So I'm going to have to count these pennies to make sure you gave me the right amount. And I may be bad at counting, so I may do it slowly and lose count a few times. Who knows how many hours it might take? For that matter, didn't you get a friend to drive you here? I'm pretty sure he has better things to do than wait around. Of course, if you leave, I might just loose count even more times. And you'll have to pay my hourly wage for it. And come to think of it, even if you have exact change, you don't have enough money to pay the processing fee. So come back when you have enough money.\"

According to court precedent, this would probably have been a totally legit way to handle it.

Aug 5, 2009#154

Viggs

Tinwhistler said:
Zarvox said:

From this article: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1120208723965

It seems to me like the teller should have said, \"Hey, that's cool. You can totally pay with pennies. Unfortunately, it's totally cool for me to charge a processing fee. So I'm going to have to count these pennies to make sure you gave me the right amount. And I may be bad at counting, so I may do it slowly and lose count a few times. Who knows how many hours it might take? For that matter, didn't you get a friend to drive you here? I'm pretty sure he has better things to do than wait around. Of course, if you leave, I might just loose count even more times. And you'll have to pay my hourly wage for it. And come to think of it, even if you have exact change, you don't have enough money to pay the processing fee. So come back when you have enough money.\"

Click to expand...

According to court precedent, this would probably have been a totally legit way to handle it.

I agree on the "processing fee" part. But would the precedent apply for the cashier's hourly wage?

A lawyer provides professional services. If I go to a lawyer's office, he will charge me for his time. The same is not true for a cashier, tho. If I go to a store, I don't pay a cashier for the time she spent ringing up the items I purchased. I merely pay the cost of the items + taxes.

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