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Reporters in N Korea pardoned

Aug 4, 2009#1

Cajungal

Oh, thank God.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm

North Korean leader Kim Jong-il has issued a special pardon to two detained US journalists.

Laura Ling and Euna Lee had been found guilty of entering illegally in March.

The news came hours after former US President Bill Clinton made an unannounced visit to Pyongyang on what was described as a private mission.

Mr Clinton has now flown out of North Korea with the two journalists on a plane bound for Los Angeles, his spokesman says.

Mr Clinton is the highest-profile American to visit since ex-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in 2000.

I was expecting something like this to happen, but you never know. I'm so happy they get to go home to their families!

Aug 4, 2009#2

Bumble the Boy Wonder

I was very relieved when I first read about this!

I sure do have a lot of respect for Mr. Clinton :uhhuh:

Aug 4, 2009#3

Twitch

I'm glad to hear they were released and I'm glad the U.S. government didn't get officially involved.

Aug 4, 2009#4

That was pretty impressive for sure.

Aug 4, 2009#5

Krisken

As I said in the thread not-to-be-named, yay!

Aug 4, 2009#6

blotsfan

I'm definitely glad the US didn't lose any negotiating leverage or anything like that to get these idiots pardoned.

Aug 4, 2009#7

Krisken

blotsfan said:
I'm definitely glad the US didn't lose any negotiating leverage or anything like that to get these idiots pardoned.

How do you lose negotiating leverage with a country you haven't talked to in 9 years?

Aug 4, 2009#8

Bumble the Boy Wonder

Krisken said:
blotsfan said:

I'm definitely glad the US didn't lose any negotiating leverage or anything like that to get these idiots pardoned.

Click to expand...

How do you lose negotiating leverage with a country you haven't talked to in 9 years?

You break down and talk to them.

Aug 4, 2009#9

Gkbur

You really can't lose or gain any negotiating leverage with a country who's leader could instantly switch from wanting to destroy his southern neighbor to wanting to dance around like a monkey.

Aug 4, 2009#10

Krisken

Bumble the Boy Wonder said:
Krisken said:

blotsfan said:

I'm definitely glad the US didn't lose any negotiating leverage or anything like that to get these idiots pardoned.

Click to expand...

How do you lose negotiating leverage with a country you haven't talked to in 9 years?

Click to expand...

You break down and talk to them.

Hm, I think I understand the last 8 years now.

(sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la! (/sticks fingers in ears)

Ah, I see! Thanks Bumble!

Aug 4, 2009#11

Yeah, but on the crazy off-chance that future diplomacy is possible, it's good nothing occurred to make it even less likely.

Aug 4, 2009#12

Bowielee

All I'm going to say is that I'm glad they were released. I ain't getting involved any further in the conversation. Not after last time

aranoid:

Aug 4, 2009#13

Krisken

ZenMonkey said:
Yeah, but on the crazy off-chance that future diplomacy is possible, it's good nothing occurred to make it even less likely.

Oh no doubt. I support this whole heartedly. I'm a big fan of discussion instead of shouting or silence.

Aug 5, 2009#14

bhamv3

Or, as Fark put it, Clinton picks up two Asian chicks!

I'm glad to know they're free now though. Kudos to Bill Clinton, kudos indeed.

Btw, do we know for sure nothing was given up in exchange for their release? Clinton might not be a government official, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't there as an official emissary for the US government.

Aug 5, 2009#15

Shakey

Krisken said:
Bumble the Boy Wonder said:

Krisken said:

blotsfan said:

I'm definitely glad the US didn't lose any negotiating leverage or anything like that to get these idiots pardoned.

Click to expand...

How do you lose negotiating leverage with a country you haven't talked to in 9 years?

Click to expand...

You break down and talk to them.

Click to expand...

Hm, I think I understand the last 8 years now.

(sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la! (/sticks fingers in ears)

Ah, I see! Thanks Bumble!

So when did Clinton go to visit them when he was Pres....

Anyway, I don't think Bill ever went there without a full guarantee that they would come back. A former president who is married to the Secretary of State. This was a huge PR plus for NK without us losing face.

Aug 5, 2009#16

Shegokigo

Seriously, why'd we ever let Bill out of office?

Aug 5, 2009#17

Shegokigo said:
Seriously, why'd we ever let Bill out of office?

Damn 22nd Amendment...

Aug 5, 2009#18

Shegokigo

ZenMonkey said:
Shegokigo said:

Seriously, why'd we ever let Bill out of office?

Click to expand...

Damn 22nd Amendment...

Couldn't have put it better myself! :humph:

Aug 5, 2009#19

Heavan

Shegokigo said:
ZenMonkey said:

Shegokigo said:

Seriously, why'd we ever let Bill out of office?

Click to expand...

Damn 22nd Amendment...

Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it better myself! :humph:

There was also, you know, that sex thing. He was nearly impeached. Sex scandal...

Aw, who am I kidding

. Miss you always Bill :heart:

Aug 5, 2009#20

Heavan said:
He was nearly impeached.

He was impeached.

Aug 5, 2009#21

AshburnerX

I think most people assumed he wasn't impeached because he wasn't removed from office.

Aug 5, 2009#22

Doesn't make it any less incorrect.

Aug 5, 2009#23

Shawn

I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

Aug 5, 2009#24

Mr_Chaz

Shawnacy said:
I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

You think he did what to Kim?

Aug 5, 2009#25

Shawn

Mr_Chaz said:
Shawnacy said:

I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

Click to expand...

You think he did what to Kim?

As funny as that would be if it were true...
I was inferring that N. Korea has a hidden agenda for releasing the prisoners. Probably to gain false sympathy.

Aug 5, 2009#26

bhamv3

Shawnacy said:
Mr_Chaz said:

Shawnacy said:

I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

Click to expand...

You think he did what to Kim?

Click to expand...

As funny as that would be if it were true...
I was inferring that N. Korea has a hidden agenda for releasing the prisoners. Probably to gain false sympathy.

I doubt anyone would feel sympathetic towards North Korea no matter what they did, but I can't help but also wonder what Bill offered in exchange for the reporters.

Aug 5, 2009#27

Espy

Shakey said:
Krisken said:

Bumble the Boy Wonder said:

Krisken said:

How do you lose negotiating leverage with a country you haven't talked to in 9 years?

Click to expand...

You break down and talk to them.

Click to expand...

Hm, I think I understand the last 8 years now.

(sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la! (/sticks fingers in ears)

Ah, I see! Thanks Bumble!

Click to expand...

So when did Clinton go to visit them when he was Pres....

Ooooh... burrrrrrrrn...

Seriously though, this is great news.

Aug 5, 2009#28

sixpackshaker

To echo the previous thread...

The bitches deserved it. Getting released that is. I wish I remembered what my prediction was on the other thread, I think four months. So I was a little off?

How soon will Iran release the 3 American Spies picked up this weekend? I mean hikers.

Aug 5, 2009#29

Far

http://www.superpoop.com

Aug 5, 2009#30

Espy

Aug 5, 2009#31

Krisken

Espy said:
Shakey said:

Krisken said:

Bumble the Boy Wonder said:

You break down and talk to them.

Click to expand...

Hm, I think I understand the last 8 years now.

(sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la! (/sticks fingers in ears)

Ah, I see! Thanks Bumble!

Click to expand...

So when did Clinton go to visit them when he was Pres....

Click to expand...

Ooooh... burrrrrrrrn...

Seriously though, this is great news.

I didn't say anything about a president, so it really isn't a burn. It does have to do with the policy of an administration.

Aug 5, 2009#32

Steven Soderburgin

Bill Clinton owns. Glad they're back, that was a pretty scary thing.

Aug 5, 2009#33

Jay

Bill Clinton is something else, what a hero di niro. Great job.

I know he can't be President again but can he be Vice-Prez or something?

Aug 5, 2009#34

Twitch

SeriousJay said:
Bill Clinton is something else, what a hero di niro. Great job.

I know he can't be President again but can he be Vice-Prez or something?

No, I think you have to be eligible for the presidency.

Aug 5, 2009#35

Krisken

SeriousJay said:
Bill Clinton is something else, what a hero di niro. Great job.

I know he can't be President again but can he be Vice-Prez or something?

Nope. To be Vice President, you have to be eligible to be president.

Aug 5, 2009#36

Jay

What is the highest station he can hold then? If so, give the man that job, all the others are hacks like Kurtz.

Aug 5, 2009#37

Am I the only one that, upon reading "private mission" immediately pictured Bill doing a James Bond type action all over Korea? The dude's already halfway there, when it comes to the women.

Aug 5, 2009#38

Rob King

Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

With regards to Bill being awesome ... I basically grew up enough to understand politics right around when the Sex scandal was going on. As a result, I've always seen Bill Clinton as a joke of a human being. But after coming farther in my political maturity, and looking back at his presidency ... the man did a damn good job.

The only really negative thing I've heard about Bill Clinton, is that I have heard the problem in Rwanda essentially being blamed on his inaction. I've never taken the time to investigate whether there's merit to this. If that's the case, it's a huge black mark against him, but he's still a winning president in my books.

Aug 5, 2009#39

Shakey

Rob King said:
Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

He served two terms in office, that's the max you can do as president.

Aug 5, 2009#40

Enresshou

Shakey said:
Rob King said:

Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

Click to expand...

He served two terms in office, that's the max you can do as president.

Yup. The only president who served more than two was FDR (he actually served four), and then the 22nd Amendment was passed in 1951.

Aug 5, 2009#41

Rob King

Shakey said:
Rob King said:

Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

Click to expand...

He served two terms in office, that's the max you can do as president.

Weird. I was always under the impression that a president could do as many terms as he's elected, but no more than two consecutively.

I must be thinking of something else.

Aug 5, 2009#42

blotsfan

Rob King said:
Shakey said:

[quote="Rob King":35cdasup]Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

Click to expand...

He served two terms in office, that's the max you can do as president.

Weird. I was always under the impression that a president could do as many terms as he's elected, but no more than two consecutively.

I must be thinking of something else.[/quote:35cdasup]
I think thats how it works in Russia.

Aug 6, 2009#43

@Li3n

blotsfan said:
Rob King said:

Shakey said:

[quote="Rob King":16k5xten]Hold on. Why can't Bill Clinton run for President again? Is it the impeachment thing? If he wasn't removed from office, I would have figured that meant he could run again. But I'm Canadian. I don't really know how it works.

Click to expand...

He served two terms in office, that's the max you can do as president.

Click to expand...

Weird. I was always under the impression that a president could do as many terms as he's elected, but no more than two consecutively.

I must be thinking of something else.

I think thats how it works in Russia.[/quote:16k5xten]

And only after Putin... (if i remember right, though that might have just been something someone tried here...).

Also, wasn't it Washington who decided to just step down after 2 terms?!

Aug 6, 2009#44

Norris

@Li3n said:
Also, wasn't it Washington who decided to just step down after 2 terms?!

Indeed. Man probably could have become King or president for life, but chose to step down after two terms. IIRC, that presidential precedent was followed until FDR (who had World War II and the Great Depression as an excuse

). It was fairly controversial, again IIRC, when Teddy Roosevelt tried for a third term with his "Bull Moose Party".

Aug 6, 2009#45

Covar

[url=http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxxii.html said:
The U.S. Constitution[/url]]Amendment XXII

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section 2 is just ratification information and requirements.

Aug 6, 2009#46

drawn_inward

I am glad the people are safe, but should we be bailing people out for being stupid? It sends the wrong message to the rest of the stupid people. Don't go to N. Korea, Iran/Iraq, Compton, Watts, etc. I thought that would be common sense.

I'll keep the rest of my political comments to myself.

Aug 6, 2009#47

sixpackshaker

Dorko said:
@Li3n said:

Also, wasn't it Washington who decided to just step down after 2 terms?!

Click to expand...

Indeed. Man probably could have become King or president for life, but chose to step down after two terms. IIRC, that presidential precedent was followed until FDR (who had World War II and the Great Depression as an excuse ). It was fairly controversial, again IIRC, when Teddy Roosevelt tried for a third term with his "Bull Moose Party".

Washington saw himself as the modern Cincinatus, serve for a short time and move back to the farm when the Emergency was over. His subordinates felt the same way and followed the precedent/president when they gained office.

FDR elected 4 times served 3. The controversy was that FDR had nearly the dictatorial powers of Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo. He represented a Democratic Nation but hanging on to power so long looked bad for the nation. (I am still a big fan of FDR)

TR was only elected once, but he served the majority of McKinley's term. So he served a little over 7 years. He stepped down to let his protege Taft take over. Taft turned out to be an old school big money Republican, not the Reform Candidate that TR thought he was. So TR ran again, split the Party vote and put Wilson in office.

Aug 6, 2009#48

WolfOfOdin

Say what you will of Clinton, but Bill is near god-like when it comes to diplomacy and making impossible situations work when they shouldn't.

About loosing face/breaking down:

Any mission with North Korea by a US official at this point can be construed as a 'private' mission. Why? We don't have an embassy in North Korea, and thus have no true diplomatic relations with them, thus no diplomatic immunity for our folks. That in and of itself is a MASSIVE negative to an official mission by anyone who isn't high enough up to be missed if they have an 'accident'.

Currently we have to use the Swiss Embassy/United Nations to actually talk to North Korea in official ways.

Aug 6, 2009#49

Alex B.

bhamv3 said:
Shawnacy said:

Mr_Chaz said:

Shawnacy said:

I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

Click to expand...

You think he did what to Kim?

Click to expand...

As funny as that would be if it were true...
I was inferring that N. Korea has a hidden agenda for releasing the prisoners. Probably to gain false sympathy.

Click to expand...

I doubt anyone would feel sympathetic towards North Korea no matter what they did, but I can't help but also wonder what Bill offered in exchange for the reporters.

It's probably so they can look magnanimous and seem like good guys. I doubt they wanted to keep the prisoners for long. All we had to do was give them an opportunity to look like they weren't jerks.

Aug 6, 2009#50

HowDroll

Shawnacy said:
Mr_Chaz said:

Shawnacy said:

I think there is more to this than just Bill's impressive negotiation skills.

Click to expand...

You think he did what to Kim?

Click to expand...

As funny as that would be if it were true...
I was inferring that N. Korea has a hidden agenda for releasing the prisoners. Probably to gain false sympathy.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdug6yHJB40&feature=related:3pdugsda][/youtube:3pdugsda]

Aug 6, 2009#51

Enresshou

drawn_inward said:
I am glad the people are safe, but should we be bailing people out for being stupid? It sends the wrong message to the rest of the stupid people. Don't go to N. Korea, Iran/Iraq, Compton, Watts, etc. I thought that would be common sense.

I'll keep the rest of my political comments to myself.

If I remember correctly, there was some confusion as to where they were arrested, and I don't think it was in North Korean territory. If it turns out they'd gone into North Korea, then yeah...their own stupidity, they should pay for it. However, North Korea has a nasty little history of kidnappings in decidedly NOT North Korean territory (such as Denmark and Spain): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese

I doubt they'd have qualms kidnapping somebody within a few miles of their border.

Aug 6, 2009#52

Shegokigo

HowDroll said:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdug6yHJB40&feature=related:w2ziscue][/youtube:w2ziscue]

Damn Droll, you remind me why I miss you with every epic post like that. :uhhuh: :thumbsup:

Aug 6, 2009#53

HowDroll

Shegokigo said:
HowDroll said:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdug6yHJB40&feature=related:1g4ne1ax][/youtube:1g4ne1ax]

Click to expand...

Damn Droll, you remind me why I miss you with every epic post like that. :uhhuh:

I'm a workin' gal now, and it isn't in some cushy office job where I can browse HF all day either :hump:

Aug 6, 2009#54

Covar

hey my job's not cushy. It just has downtime in between moments of sheer terror.

Aug 6, 2009#55

Rob King

Alex B. said:
It's probably so they can look magnanimous and seem like good guys. I doubt they wanted to keep the prisoners for long. All we had to do was give them an opportunity to look like they weren't jerks.

I will never read another of your posts again, as long as that GIF is in your sig. It's too distracting.

Aug 7, 2009#56

Alex B.

Aug 7, 2009#57

For those of you who argued with me when I was vociferous about my views that these two broke the law and were paying for it, I'll take your apology and admitting that I was right all along in small, non-sequential, unmarked bills.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/07/journa ... index.html

Two U.S. journalists pardoned and freed by North Korea did cross illegally into that country, the sister of one of the women said.

\"She did say that they touched North Korean territory very, very briefly,\" Lisa Ling, sister of Laura Ling, told CNN on Thursday.

\"It was something that they were never planning to do originally,\" Lisa Ling said. \"I mean, I said this before, when they left U.S. soil, they never intended to cross into North Korea. She said it was maybe 30 seconds. And then, you know, everything just sort of got chaotic.\"

Ling said her sister intends soon to fully tell her tale.

Good for Clinton, but had they had to stay the whole time in prison it would have served them right.

Aug 7, 2009#58

Shakey

There are no apologies on the internet.

Aug 7, 2009#59

Krisken

Edrondol said:
For those of you who argued with me when I was vociferous about my views that these two broke the law and were paying for it, I'll take your apology and admitting that I was right all along in small, non-sequential, unmarked bills.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/07/journa ... index.html

Two U.S. journalists pardoned and freed by North Korea did cross illegally into that country, the sister of one of the women said.

\"She did say that they touched North Korean territory very, very briefly,\" Lisa Ling, sister of Laura Ling, told CNN on Thursday.

\"It was something that they were never planning to do originally,\" Lisa Ling said. \"I mean, I said this before, when they left U.S. soil, they never intended to cross into North Korea. She said it was maybe 30 seconds. And then, you know, everything just sort of got chaotic.\"

Ling said her sister intends soon to fully tell her tale.

Click to expand...

Good for Clinton, but had they had to stay the whole time in prison it would have served them right.

For some reason I'm not finding it Ed. I remember somebody saying it though.

Aug 7, 2009#60

bhamv3

I argued with Ed, though my point was that the punishment didn't fit the crime. I didn't dispute they broke North Korean law, since I didn't know whether they did or not.

Aug 7, 2009#61

Espy

Yeah, I agree with Ed that they broke the law, but kicking them out of the country sounds like a more fitting punishment.

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