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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/saudi-court-said-order-criminal-surgically-paralyzed-143547179.html

I'm not sure how to feel about this one, personally, but I thought it would make for an interesting discussion. This is the sort of thing that Charlie Don't Surf is always against, but in this case, I think I'm on his side.

What do you guys think? Justice being served or going too far?

DUBAI (Reuters) - Amnesty International has condemned a reported Saudi Arabian court ruling that a young man should be paralyzed as punishment for a crime he committed 10 years ago which resulted in the victim being confined to a wheelchair.

The London-based human rights group said Ali al-Khawaher, 24, was reported to have spent 10 years in jail waiting to be paralyzed surgically unless his family pays one million Saudi riyals ($270,000) to the victim.

The Saudi Gazette newspaper reported last week that Khawaher had stabbed a childhood friend in the spine during a dispute a decade ago, paralyzing him from the waist down.

Saudi Arabia applies Islamic sharia law, which allows eye-for-an-eye punishment for crimes but allows victims to pardon convicts in exchange for so-called blood money.

"Paralyzing someone as punishment for a crime would be torture," Ann Harrison, Amnesty's Middle East and North Africa Deputy Director, said in a statement late on Tuesday.

"That such a punishment might be implemented is utterly shocking, even in a context where flogging is frequently imposed as a punishment for some offences, as happens in Saudi Arabia," she added.
A government-approved Saudi human rights group did not respond to requests for comment.

The Arabic-language al-Hayat daily quoted Khawaher's 60-year-old mother as saying her son was a juvenile aged 14 at the time of the offence. She said the victim had demanded 2 million riyals to pardon her son and later reduced this to 1 million. "But we don't have even a tenth of this sum," she said.

Al-Hayat said an unnamed philanthropist was trying to raise funds to pay the blood money, but it was not clear how much time remained before Khawaher's sentence was to be carried out.

Amnesty said the case demonstrated the need for Saudi Arabia to review its laws to "start respecting their international obligations and remove these terrible punishments from the law".

Saudi judges have in the past ordered sharia punishments that include tooth extraction, flogging, eye gouging and - in murder cases - death.

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Waaayyyyy too far

Agreed. As the saying goes, "The problem with an eye for an eye is that everyone ends up blind."

This is evil and barbaric.

Ah, shit. Shit. This ...

Shit.

Not to be the charlie, but if people think this is evil and barbaric, it makes me wonder why they think murder is somehow better...

Bowielee said:

Not to be the charlie, but if people think this is evil and barbaric, it makes me wonder why they think murder is somehow better...

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Probably for the same reason some feel rape is worse than death, some feel disability is worse than death.

Ah, so it's a "mercy killing"

Yeah, duh, this is pretty fucking gruesome and horrible

Charlie Don't Surf said:

Yeah, duh, this is pretty fucking gruesome and horrible

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I agree. How horrible it must be to be stabbed in the back by your friend, losing your ability to walk, and possibly ruining your life due to the way the Arab world treats the disabled.

But don't worry, eventually Charlie will come in here and ream you out for blaming the victim.

Aaaany minute now...

Charlie Don't Surf said:

Yeah, duh, this is pretty fucking gruesome and horrible

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Huh.. I thought charlie liked to argue the opposite of what the forum thought.

stienman said:

I agree. How horrible it must be to be stabbed in the back by your friend, losing your ability to walk, and possibly ruining your life due to the way the Arab world treats the disabled.

But don't worry, eventually Charlie will come in here and ream you out for blaming the victim.

Aaaany minute now...

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I don't think anyone is trying to say that he's a good guy. Just that this punishment is wrongful. Throw him in jail forever, don't intentionally cripple him.

stienman said:

I agree. How horrible it must be to be stabbed in the back by your friend, losing your ability to walk, and possibly ruining your life due to the way the Arab world treats the disabled.

But don't worry, eventually Charlie will come in here and ream you out for blaming the victim.

Aaaany minute now...

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what.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

what.

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I know, right?

also, holy shit, did we gloss over that this person did the crime when he was 14?

Charlie Don't Surf said:

also, holy shit, did we gloss over that this person did the crime when he was 14?

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Yep. A stupid mistake as a teenager and he's been in jail for a decade, and is now due to have his spine severed.

Pretty sickening.

Saudi Arabia has harsh penalties for crime? Next you're going to tell me that they treat women like second rate citizens.

Covar said:

Saudi Arabia has harsh penalties for crime? Next you're going to tell me that they treat women like second rate citizens.

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Hey now! They've just passed a law allowing women to ride a bike, they're making progress!

...Only in specific, restricted parcs and amusement locations though. And with a related man present. And fully (fully) covered. On special bikes. At specific times. But still! progress!

ThatNickGuy said:

Agreed. As the saying goes, "The problem with an eye for an eye is that everyone ends up blind."

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No it doesn't. There'll be one guy left with one eye. How's the last blind guy going to take out the eye of the last guy left whose still got one eye left? All that guy has to do is run away and hide behind a bush. Ghandi was wrong. It's just that nobody's got the balls to come out and say it.

but just to be annoying: some people here have, before, advocated judging 14 and 15 year olds as adults, and people before have argued for the death penalty on more than one occasion. I think this punishment is purely vindictive and ridiculous, but it's no harsher than some of the things I've heard intelligent people demand/advocate in the past.

Gilgamesh said:

No it doesn't. There'll be one guy left with one eye. How's the last blind guy going to take out the eye of the last guy left whose still got one eye left? All that guy has to do is run away and hide behind a bush. Ghandi was wrong. It's just that nobody's got the balls to come out and say it.

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That made me think of the Kill Bill eye plucking scene. I laugh much more than I should at that scene.

Shakey said:

That made me think of the Kill Bill eye plucking scene. I laugh much more than I should at that scene.

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It's a quote from (the fantastic) Seven Psychopaths. I can't NOT think of it everytime I hear -Eye for any Eye- now.

This is monstrous. And I can't believe there's a doctor who would be willing to do this to someone, regardless of the legal judgment.

Bubble181 said:

but just to be annoying: some people here have, before, advocated judging 14 and 15 year olds as adults, and people before have argued for the death penalty on more than one occasion. I think this punishment is purely vindictive and ridiculous, but it's no harsher than some of the things I've heard intelligent people demand/advocate in the past.

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The main issue with juvenile offenders being charged as adults, in my mind, is whether they are truly cognizant of their action.

To some degree, juveniles are charged differently under the assumption that they are not fully capable of understanding the seriousness of their actions.

I believe some really did understand what they were doing at the time they committed the crime, and that they should not be treated differently than an adult that did the same thing.

I don't know in this case, but genially I'd err on the aside of stupid kid rather than culpable adult.

Actually, I think a more fitting punishment would be that he has to take care of his former friend. Changing bedsheets and diapers would really drive it home, ya know?

Dave said:

Actually, I think a more fitting punishment would be that he has to take care of his former friend. Changing bedsheets and diapers would really drive it home, ya know?

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I'd still probably file that under cruel and definitely unusual punishment.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

I'd still probably file that under cruel and definitely unusual punishment.

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Every parent here agrees.

Charlie Don't Surf said:

I'd still probably file that under cruel and definitely unusual punishment.

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More cruel than having to live with it? I don't think so. And it makes the punishment fit the crime, rather than being vindictive. It's in perfect magnitude to it. Maybe they'll even need to get certified as a caregiver, and when the other dies, they'll actually be able to get a job (maybe). Win for all really.