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Seeking Tablet Info - RECOMMEND ME APPS!
#1
Jay
Jay
I’ll be honest, I know little about this subject.
I have a built-in mechanism where too much of a thing, turns me off from wanting to learn but I see people with various sorts of tablets and I’m intrigued.
But I don’t want to get fucked over by buying the wrong thing.
This is how I feel.
I’d like to try out a tablet. I think maybe reading a book on a road on a small portable device may be kind of intriguing and interesting to me. I’d like to surf the web with it. Maybe even play a few select games.
I like functionality, I like to be able to download and use new bells and whistles.
There’s so many options out there… IPads, Androids, Kindle Fire, Playbooks.
What am I to do?
Sincerely,
The Jay.
I have a built-in mechanism where too much of a thing, turns me off from wanting to learn but I see people with various sorts of tablets and I’m intrigued.
But I don’t want to get fucked over by buying the wrong thing.
This is how I feel.
I’d like to try out a tablet. I think maybe reading a book on a road on a small portable device may be kind of intriguing and interesting to me. I’d like to surf the web with it. Maybe even play a few select games.
I like functionality, I like to be able to download and use new bells and whistles.
There’s so many options out there… IPads, Androids, Kindle Fire, Playbooks.
What am I to do?
Sincerely,
The Jay.
#2
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
If you want to go budget, kindle fire is the way to go. It's great for web surfing, books, movies, and Android games, for $199. You're not going to get a better bang for your buck.
If you feel like this is something you're going to use a lot, and you want as many bells and whistles as possible, as well as a ton of aftermarket support, then go full hog and get an ipad. It's going to have the most wow factor, and offer the most general usability.
There are cheaper ways to go, but those are usually best for people that have a specific need and can customize what they want.
Edit- Regarding the playbook: lol no. Just no.
If you feel like this is something you're going to use a lot, and you want as many bells and whistles as possible, as well as a ton of aftermarket support, then go full hog and get an ipad. It's going to have the most wow factor, and offer the most general usability.
There are cheaper ways to go, but those are usually best for people that have a specific need and can customize what they want.
Edit- Regarding the playbook: lol no. Just no.
#3
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Budget? Go for the Kindle Fire. It'll do everything you'd need it to do. If you're willing to spend $50 more and get twice the power and better resolutions, do like me and get a Nook Tablet.
The preinstalled nonsense doesn't matter because you're going to root that thing in 5 minutes the moment you get it home and charged. Once that's done, enjoy unlimited downloaded content and make sure to get a case that folds out to be it's own stand-up. Enjoy.
Known problem for any tablet 7'' or bigger: Men have trouble carrying them around due to being too big to carry around in a pocket. Be ready to carry something in your hand whenever you need it.
The preinstalled nonsense doesn't matter because you're going to root that thing in 5 minutes the moment you get it home and charged. Once that's done, enjoy unlimited downloaded content and make sure to get a case that folds out to be it's own stand-up. Enjoy.
Known problem for any tablet 7'' or bigger: Men have trouble carrying them around due to being too big to carry around in a pocket. Be ready to carry something in your hand whenever you need it.
#4
Jay
Jay
So I assume that doesn't apply to you with your latina hips and all?
#5
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Smartass, I carry it in my bag.
#6
Covar
Covar
iPad, nothing else comes close. There's a reason the closet competitor is $300 cheaper and strips away all traces of the Android interface.
#7
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
There's nothing the iPad offers over the Nook Tablet to justify $300 by a mile.
#8
Gared
/sarcasm
Gared
But, but, but that can't be true. It's made by Apple, and they're the bestestest company EVAR! That alone is worth $300, not to mention how trendy and unique owning an Apple product makes me. Besides, it's an Apple product, so it can never get infected by a virus or taken over by a Flashback Trojan botnet.There's nothing the iPad offers over the Nook Tablet to justify $300 by a mile.
/sarcasm
#9
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
I think my favorite Apple fanboism of the last week or so had to be the adding of Instagram to Android. It even got an article on CNN over how "upset" Apple users were over it. It's hilarious.
#10
Jay
Can you recommend/link a model online, for example off Amazon? I'm intrigued by your nook.
Jay
Can you recommend/link a model online, for example off Amazon? I'm intrigued by your nook.
#11
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
http://www.amazon.com/Barnes-Noble-Tablet-Version-BNTV250/dp/1400501466
I got that version and bought a seperate 32gb Micro SD card for dirt cheap to go with it.
It's key to know that there is a 8gb version of the Nook Tablet for the same price as the Kindle Fire, HOWEVER, that Nook Tablet has the same power as the Fire. The 16gb version of the Nook Tablet is the one you're looking for. I dunno about in CA but in the US if you buy from an actual B&N store, you get a pretty heft discount for the Tablet itself.
Finally, the difference between rooting the 8gb version and the 16gb version is huge. There currently is no easy way to root the 8gb version where the 16gb version literally takes 5 minutes and zero PC knowledge to get the thing fully customizable and "hacked" as well as it's impossible "brick/ruin" the Nook because you can instantly go back to factory settings with the push of a few buttons.
I got that version and bought a seperate 32gb Micro SD card for dirt cheap to go with it.
It's key to know that there is a 8gb version of the Nook Tablet for the same price as the Kindle Fire, HOWEVER, that Nook Tablet has the same power as the Fire. The 16gb version of the Nook Tablet is the one you're looking for. I dunno about in CA but in the US if you buy from an actual B&N store, you get a pretty heft discount for the Tablet itself.
Finally, the difference between rooting the 8gb version and the 16gb version is huge. There currently is no easy way to root the 8gb version where the 16gb version literally takes 5 minutes and zero PC knowledge to get the thing fully customizable and "hacked" as well as it's impossible "brick/ruin" the Nook because you can instantly go back to factory settings with the push of a few buttons.
#12
Jay
Jay
Excellent. I already got a 64 GB memory card... I er.... found it.
Definitely on my short list.
I thank you for this Shegs.
But of course I hope I can borrow some time from Grandmaster Pat and get his feedback as well.
Definitely on my short list.
I thank you for this Shegs.
But of course I hope I can borrow some time from Grandmaster Pat and get his feedback as well.
#13
Necronic
-iPad has a substantially larger app store than android does, and the Nook doesn't even have access to the full android store
-No camera vs front and back camera which supports facetime (5 megapixel w/ stabilizers)
-No access to a video store (I don't know if this is still true.)
-iPad 2 has better processor (A5X, although I'm not sure it's that much better)
-iPad 2 has significantly better screen resolution (2048 I think, it's ridiculous)
-Larger screen (although this goes both ways since you are right that you can't put it in your pocket and it also weighs more)
-Better battery life (surprisingly)
-Better starting bells/whistles (Facetime, Siri, Gestures, etc vs Hulu Plus and Netflix).
--------------------
The main advantage is the access to the App store and the camera, but this may be outweighed by the fact that the Nook can be booted from an SD which opens up a ton of possibilities, and the iPad is super expensive. But for that price you get some expanded versatility and acess that you may have more difficulty with on the nook.
That said, if you're going to go the hackish route it may be worth looking at the Asus Transformer Prime tf201. Spec wise it's very close to the iPad.
Necronic
I'm no apple fanboy but I think this is questionable:There's nothing the iPad offers over the Nook Tablet to justify $300 by a mile.
-iPad has a substantially larger app store than android does, and the Nook doesn't even have access to the full android store
-No camera vs front and back camera which supports facetime (5 megapixel w/ stabilizers)
-No access to a video store (I don't know if this is still true.)
-iPad 2 has better processor (A5X, although I'm not sure it's that much better)
-iPad 2 has significantly better screen resolution (2048 I think, it's ridiculous)
-Larger screen (although this goes both ways since you are right that you can't put it in your pocket and it also weighs more)
-Better battery life (surprisingly)
-Better starting bells/whistles (Facetime, Siri, Gestures, etc vs Hulu Plus and Netflix).
--------------------
The main advantage is the access to the App store and the camera, but this may be outweighed by the fact that the Nook can be booted from an SD which opens up a ton of possibilities, and the iPad is super expensive. But for that price you get some expanded versatility and acess that you may have more difficulty with on the nook.
That said, if you're going to go the hackish route it may be worth looking at the Asus Transformer Prime tf201. Spec wise it's very close to the iPad.
#14
Shegokigo
The reason the iPad and other tablets are more expensive are slightly better processing (literally the difference in loading is in miliseconds), bigger screen (see CNN Sweet Spot article) and a camera. That's just not enough to justify to me, the extra $300.
Shegokigo
With a fully rooted Nook (The only reason to buy it) you have access to the Android App store, The Amazon App store and the Barnes and Noble app store. It's also about Quality over Quantity.Necronic said:I'm no apple fanboy but I think this is questionable:
-iPad has a substantially larger app store than android does, and the Nook doesn't even have access to the full android store
Yeah, you hold up that 10'' Tablet to take pictures. You go right ahead. (Facetime is a nice feature but not worth $300)Necronic said:-No camera vs front and back camera which supports facetime (5 megapixel w/ stabilizers)
Netflix/Blockbuster/Amazon etcNecronic said:-No access to a video store (I don't know if this is still true.)
It is better. Not $300 better.Necronic said:-iPad 2 has better processor (A5X, although I'm not sure it's that much better)
You're completely right. If someone feels the need for it. I find the screen resolution on the Nook amazing for short video watching, which is all you'd ever really use a tablet for unless you're on long trips by bus or airplane.Necronic said:-iPad 2 has significantly better screen resolution (2048 I think, it's ridiculous)
There's an entire article on CNN Tech about how 7'' is the "sweet spot" for a handheld device. 4-5'' is too small, 10'' is uncessarily too big.Necronic said:-Larger screen (although this goes both ways since you are right that you can't put it in your pocket and it also weighs more)
I dunno about anyonelses needs but 9hrs of video and 11hrs of reading is more than enough than I need on a single charge.Necronic said:-Better battery life (surprisingly)
All available within 5 minutes of getting the Nook home with the exception of Siri which (to me) is just a silly gimmick for my own personal use (I have tried it).Necronic said:-Better starting bells/whistles (Facetime, Siri, Gestures, etc vs Hulu Plus and Netflix).
The reason the iPad and other tablets are more expensive are slightly better processing (literally the difference in loading is in miliseconds), bigger screen (see CNN Sweet Spot article) and a camera. That's just not enough to justify to me, the extra $300.
#15
Jay
Jay
Noticed it's not for sale within Canada (or I may have to research it a bit more at home). Not that's it's my final decision but direct delivery = $45 U.S.
Kinda douchy.
Kinda douchy.
#16
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
You really need a US mule Jay. Srsly.
#17
strawman
In this case the iPad has both quantity and quality on its side. The android tablets, not so much in either case. If you only do a handful of things with it, then you can probably find the 20 apps you need, and they will work well enough. But as long as you can do what you want, and still save yourself $250, then it might fit your needs.
There are other significant advantages to the iPad, but it seems like one of the requirements here is low cost, and for that you have to make compromises, especially in ease of use and stability. One of the biggest reasons I still shy away from android devices is that manufacturers completely drop support and software updates after a year or so. My iphone 3gs and ipad gen 1, both many years old, are running the latest version of iOS and are still supported by Apple and 99% of apps. My wife's android phone, nearly 3 years old, is still running 2.2 - but only because she spent two days hacking it on there because it came with 1.1 and the manufacturer dropped in mere months after introducing it. The android tablets we have all run 2.2, and of course the manufacturer isn't interested in upgrading them - they want you to buy their latest and greatest if you want honeycomb. Of course they will drop that in a year or so.
As a result most app developers target older versions - 2.2 is still the largest installed base of android devices, and it's fully two years old. They don't make use of the latest hardware in the android devices because it's not available in 2.2. Developers who target honeycomb and later get a lot of cool features, and a teeny tiny little slice of the market.
Amazon purposefully designed their tablet to be incompatible with the google android ecosystem so they can control a little bit of the content model their customers use. You can hack around it if you like, but not only is there natural fragmentation in the android arena, there's purposeful, and even malicious, fragmentation. But the real problem is amazon didn't even start with the latest version of android - they started further back with an older version. They've already chosen to ignore the latest features available specifically for tablet use. Rather than small tablets, most of these devices are really upsized PDAs in terms of usability.
The android tablets aren't competing with the iPad. You buy one when you've decided that either 1) you don't want a large tablet and/or 2) when you don't want to pay the price for the larger tablet. If you don't have anything against a big tablet, and you can afford it, then the iPad is a better choice, and is most assuredly worth it.
strawman
There are a very few well done android tablet apps. The rest are utter and complete garbage. Oh, you can can run them and do what they're meant to do, but the android ecosystem makes it hard for programmers to deliver the quality you suggest it has. Most people still use a ton of android apps developed for phones and smaller platforms - it's one of the reasons the medium sized tablets are doing so well, the small apps don't look absolutely horrible on the 7" display in the same way they do on a 10" display, and app developers just aren't developing for the 10". Now that the kindle is out, a lot of developer are specifically targeting the medium sized screens, but it's still a very limited ecosystem.It's also about Quality over Quantity.
In this case the iPad has both quantity and quality on its side. The android tablets, not so much in either case. If you only do a handful of things with it, then you can probably find the 20 apps you need, and they will work well enough. But as long as you can do what you want, and still save yourself $250, then it might fit your needs.
There are other significant advantages to the iPad, but it seems like one of the requirements here is low cost, and for that you have to make compromises, especially in ease of use and stability. One of the biggest reasons I still shy away from android devices is that manufacturers completely drop support and software updates after a year or so. My iphone 3gs and ipad gen 1, both many years old, are running the latest version of iOS and are still supported by Apple and 99% of apps. My wife's android phone, nearly 3 years old, is still running 2.2 - but only because she spent two days hacking it on there because it came with 1.1 and the manufacturer dropped in mere months after introducing it. The android tablets we have all run 2.2, and of course the manufacturer isn't interested in upgrading them - they want you to buy their latest and greatest if you want honeycomb. Of course they will drop that in a year or so.
As a result most app developers target older versions - 2.2 is still the largest installed base of android devices, and it's fully two years old. They don't make use of the latest hardware in the android devices because it's not available in 2.2. Developers who target honeycomb and later get a lot of cool features, and a teeny tiny little slice of the market.
Amazon purposefully designed their tablet to be incompatible with the google android ecosystem so they can control a little bit of the content model their customers use. You can hack around it if you like, but not only is there natural fragmentation in the android arena, there's purposeful, and even malicious, fragmentation. But the real problem is amazon didn't even start with the latest version of android - they started further back with an older version. They've already chosen to ignore the latest features available specifically for tablet use. Rather than small tablets, most of these devices are really upsized PDAs in terms of usability.
The android tablets aren't competing with the iPad. You buy one when you've decided that either 1) you don't want a large tablet and/or 2) when you don't want to pay the price for the larger tablet. If you don't have anything against a big tablet, and you can afford it, then the iPad is a better choice, and is most assuredly worth it.
#18
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Caring about the OS on a Android tablet is ridiculous. You get an Android tablet to ROOT it. You're running self-installed OSes, and can upgrade anytime to the newer ones that newer APP makers are making.
The iPAD isn't even the better choice if you're looking to spend more or have a bigger tablet. They're just more common place and hardly worth it vs a solid ROOTed Android tablet of the same cost.
The iPAD isn't even the better choice if you're looking to spend more or have a bigger tablet. They're just more common place and hardly worth it vs a solid ROOTed Android tablet of the same cost.
#19
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
For lesser supported tablets? Sure. For the extremely popular NOOKs? All you need is to install one thing, once and that's it. You download everythingelse directly from the app markets and I've never had BSOD.So, in other words. If you are the type of person who liked the challenge that BSOD's provided, the type of person who likes installing software manually, The type of person who enjoys hex editors, the type of person who loves spending days of their life in support forums like XDA developers, you will love android devices.
#20
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
I wanted a tablet for awhile. My father ended up getting me a Kindle Fire, I actually like it a lot, but I didn't like how "closed off" it was. Had to root it to get the most out of it, which is a bit of a pain.
In the end, it is well worth the price just for the Amazon integration, which gives you the ability to stream anything Amazon has to offer from movies to music to books. Amazon's free app of the day lets me find some decent pay apps and get them free, and if you don't like the launcher you can use an alternate launcher. I use mine with GO Launcher.
In the end, it is well worth the price just for the Amazon integration, which gives you the ability to stream anything Amazon has to offer from movies to music to books. Amazon's free app of the day lets me find some decent pay apps and get them free, and if you don't like the launcher you can use an alternate launcher. I use mine with GO Launcher.
#21
Cajungal
I have a question about the Kindle Fire. It doesn't have that special screen that e-readers have, right? It's more like a computer screen? Is it much harder to read a book on it for a long time?
Cajungal
Did this make no one else giggle?I'm intrigued by your nook.
I have a question about the Kindle Fire. It doesn't have that special screen that e-readers have, right? It's more like a computer screen? Is it much harder to read a book on it for a long time?
#22
Covar
Covar
It's a regular LCD screen so yes. At least it's noticeable to me comparing my Kindle and iPad. Not like "OH GOD MY EYES!!" bad, but I'd rather read on my Kindle given the chance.
#23
Necronic
Necronic
You know, if you wanted to knock some of the cost off of the iPad2 you can get the "first-gen" iPad2, which I think sells @ $400. You loose a lot of the items I listed as being advantages, but you do keep what seems to be the most important advantage, access to the app store.
#24
Bowielee
Bowielee
I think, as this thread points out, it's hard to get unbiased opinions on tablets as there's such a divide between apple/kindle/etc... fans.
I think it really comes down to what you want to use it for. For office/school use, I've found the iPad to be the way to go. If you're mostly going to use the reader, the Nook is probably the best way to go (I swear, it looks just like paper, so it's by far the superior reader). If you're looking at hackable stuff/customizable apps, you'd want one of the android styled pads.
I think it really comes down to what you want to use it for. For office/school use, I've found the iPad to be the way to go. If you're mostly going to use the reader, the Nook is probably the best way to go (I swear, it looks just like paper, so it's by far the superior reader). If you're looking at hackable stuff/customizable apps, you'd want one of the android styled pads.
#25
PatrThom
Want an ereader and nothing more? Get the Kindle Touch 3G.
Want color? Get the Kindle Fire.
Want apps? Get an iPad.
Want a no-hold-barred Android Experience™? Get an Eee Pad Transformer.
(all recommendations based on out-of-box config, i.e. unrooted/unjailbroken)
--Patrick
PatrThom
I have no personal experience with anything other than the iPad (as might be expected), but from what the Internet says in about 30min of searching, this looks like the way to go:But of course I hope I can borrow some time from Grandmaster Pat and get his feedback as well.
Want an ereader and nothing more? Get the Kindle Touch 3G.
Want color? Get the Kindle Fire.
Want apps? Get an iPad.
Want a no-hold-barred Android Experience™? Get an Eee Pad Transformer.
(all recommendations based on out-of-box config, i.e. unrooted/unjailbroken)
--Patrick
#26
Jay
Jay
So confused.
#27
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
If you want to spend $500+ I can't help you.
Less than $500 I stick to my original advice.
Also, the mule advice thing too.
Less than $500 I stick to my original advice.
Also, the mule advice thing too.
#28
Jay
Jay
What are some of the fun things I cannot do with your nook?
#29
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Can't do? Uh... take pictures, do face to face video chat, access an app that's Apple Only, that's about all I can think of. I also couldn't tell you how restricted it would be un-rooted as I rooted mine the moment I got it home. From what I hear it's very little.
Things I currently use my Nook for right now: Appointment handling, watching Netflix/Hulu/Downloaded show and movies during lunch breaks, web browsing, reading comics, reading novels, playing a few flash app games, eventually playing SNES/Genisis/GBA roms, listening to music, that's about it off the top of my head.
Things I currently use my Nook for right now: Appointment handling, watching Netflix/Hulu/Downloaded show and movies during lunch breaks, web browsing, reading comics, reading novels, playing a few flash app games, eventually playing SNES/Genisis/GBA roms, listening to music, that's about it off the top of my head.
#30
Necronic
Necronic
From here in I'm only going to be talking in terms of the un-rooted devices, because talking about the rooted version adds too many convuluting aspects to the comparisons.
Anywho, comparing app stores is a difficult challenge due to their vastness and the many dimensions to consider, but there is a lot of good reading out there on this.
One of the issues with Android is that (as an OS) it supports a vast number of different hardware specs as opposed to the iOS. This has historically been a concern for some developers as it makes development a lot trickier, and (for a while at least, I don't know if this still holds) many developers have avoided Android for this reason.
On the other hand, Google has a far less restrictive marketplace than Apple who, unsurprisingly, handles their app store with the iron fist that we are used to with them. This flexibility opens up access to more developers and may entice them to go that route. However, there is a flip side to that coin, specifically that the Android market has, on more than one occasion, been used to distribute malware.
Beyond that you have this interesting report that shows that the Android store is more heavily geared towards productivity apps in leiu of games, where the apple store handily comes out ahead. The report also shows that the prices on the Android store tend to be a bit higher, but when we're talking about the difference between $1.50 and $3.00 I don't think it matters much. That said, the Android store is supported by Google itself who releases all of their apps free of charge, and google apps are notoriously high quality. Comparing that with Apple, who will often charge absurd prices for apps that should have been included in the first place (like iMovie or iWork, the latter coming in at, I believe, $30).
It seems that the theme of "you pay more but may get more polish" holds true for the stores as well as the products. Apple's apps are more likely to cost money, but are also more likely to have a higher quality. However, Google's attitude towards developers and market-share adoption rate mean that more and more developers may find the Android marketplace more pallatable than Apple's in the long run, which, based on the historical precedent of Macintosh software in general, seems quite likely.
Anywho, comparing app stores is a difficult challenge due to their vastness and the many dimensions to consider, but there is a lot of good reading out there on this.
One of the issues with Android is that (as an OS) it supports a vast number of different hardware specs as opposed to the iOS. This has historically been a concern for some developers as it makes development a lot trickier, and (for a while at least, I don't know if this still holds) many developers have avoided Android for this reason.
On the other hand, Google has a far less restrictive marketplace than Apple who, unsurprisingly, handles their app store with the iron fist that we are used to with them. This flexibility opens up access to more developers and may entice them to go that route. However, there is a flip side to that coin, specifically that the Android market has, on more than one occasion, been used to distribute malware.
Beyond that you have this interesting report that shows that the Android store is more heavily geared towards productivity apps in leiu of games, where the apple store handily comes out ahead. The report also shows that the prices on the Android store tend to be a bit higher, but when we're talking about the difference between $1.50 and $3.00 I don't think it matters much. That said, the Android store is supported by Google itself who releases all of their apps free of charge, and google apps are notoriously high quality. Comparing that with Apple, who will often charge absurd prices for apps that should have been included in the first place (like iMovie or iWork, the latter coming in at, I believe, $30).
It seems that the theme of "you pay more but may get more polish" holds true for the stores as well as the products. Apple's apps are more likely to cost money, but are also more likely to have a higher quality. However, Google's attitude towards developers and market-share adoption rate mean that more and more developers may find the Android marketplace more pallatable than Apple's in the long run, which, based on the historical precedent of Macintosh software in general, seems quite likely.
#31
Jay
Jay
Rewind a bit.
Everyone talks about rooting. What does this exactly mean? Why do you do it? What advantages do you get? How do you do it? Its it difficult? Or do I need to pay some Asian guy?
Also which one allows free Wifi to work?
What else can a Nook not do?
What is this shit about apps? Are you talking about necessary applications or dipshit stuff like, press this button to activate a gun making application so that when you shake your tablet it makes shooting noises? What exactly are we talking here?
Also, if I root it and I download shit off the web, can I get free apps?
My price range is around $200, I'm not paying 700+ dollars for an iPad, I'd rather buy a small laptop.
Is the Nook new? Is that why so many people don't mention it? What the fuck is Android? Seems like everything is "Androids". What is this? Some type of OS... which is largely regarded like Vista. Limited as fuck. Badly done?
The general consensus I've read is, fork over 7 twinkies for a good tablet the size of a watermelon to carry with you everywhere or "good luck with the other shit that are all warped deformed children of the overlord".
Everyone talks about rooting. What does this exactly mean? Why do you do it? What advantages do you get? How do you do it? Its it difficult? Or do I need to pay some Asian guy?
Also which one allows free Wifi to work?
What else can a Nook not do?
What is this shit about apps? Are you talking about necessary applications or dipshit stuff like, press this button to activate a gun making application so that when you shake your tablet it makes shooting noises? What exactly are we talking here?
Also, if I root it and I download shit off the web, can I get free apps?
My price range is around $200, I'm not paying 700+ dollars for an iPad, I'd rather buy a small laptop.
Is the Nook new? Is that why so many people don't mention it? What the fuck is Android? Seems like everything is "Androids". What is this? Some type of OS... which is largely regarded like Vista. Limited as fuck. Badly done?
The general consensus I've read is, fork over 7 twinkies for a good tablet the size of a watermelon to carry with you everywhere or "good luck with the other shit that are all warped deformed children of the overlord".
#32
Bowielee
Bowielee
Rooting is equvalent to jailbreaking a smartphone. It comes with all the same advantages and perils.
Every program on a tablet is considered an app. All tablet app stores have everything from spreadsheets to fart noise apps.
Yes, the full tablet version of the nook is relatively new, as is it's Kindle counterpart, the Fire.
Android is an OS. An OS, I'm not particularly fond of, but that's all down to taste.
Every program on a tablet is considered an app. All tablet app stores have everything from spreadsheets to fart noise apps.
Yes, the full tablet version of the nook is relatively new, as is it's Kindle counterpart, the Fire.
Android is an OS. An OS, I'm not particularly fond of, but that's all down to taste.
#33
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
There is no peril to rooting the current 16gb Nook Tablet. With a press of a button you can go back to factory settings.
I already addressed all the points Necronic has brought up for a second time, just re-read my first response to him. The Nook Tablet hasn't been out even a year yet, hence the small media coverage. Anything that isn't Apple related gets small media coverage, that's just the way it is.
Also Android OS is the closest to a Windows OS you can get on a tablet/phone. It has the same customization and you can choose what programs you want/don't want. iPad/iPhone restricts you just the same any Apple product does. Use their products or nothing at all. Even jailbroken, which you can permanently damage your hardware by doing (unlike the Nook Root), it's restrictive (being forced to use iTunes etc).
Jay - Rooting the Nook Tablet takes 5 minutes of watching a Youtube video. Nothing complicated about it. What's the point of it? Well all current tablets try to restrict the user to what apps/programs it can run by limiting what "market/downloads" you can use. By Rooting it, you can put all three markets on one device (B&N, Android, Amazon) and install any app/program. Granted only about 90% of apps will work on a Tablet as some are "Phone only" but even then you can still run nearly anything on a Rooted tablet where an un-Rooted one will run about a quarter of the available products.
I already addressed all the points Necronic has brought up for a second time, just re-read my first response to him. The Nook Tablet hasn't been out even a year yet, hence the small media coverage. Anything that isn't Apple related gets small media coverage, that's just the way it is.
Also Android OS is the closest to a Windows OS you can get on a tablet/phone. It has the same customization and you can choose what programs you want/don't want. iPad/iPhone restricts you just the same any Apple product does. Use their products or nothing at all. Even jailbroken, which you can permanently damage your hardware by doing (unlike the Nook Root), it's restrictive (being forced to use iTunes etc).
Jay - Rooting the Nook Tablet takes 5 minutes of watching a Youtube video. Nothing complicated about it. What's the point of it? Well all current tablets try to restrict the user to what apps/programs it can run by limiting what "market/downloads" you can use. By Rooting it, you can put all three markets on one device (B&N, Android, Amazon) and install any app/program. Granted only about 90% of apps will work on a Tablet as some are "Phone only" but even then you can still run nearly anything on a Rooted tablet where an un-Rooted one will run about a quarter of the available products.
#34
Bowielee
Bowielee
Shego, I'm trying to be as objective as I can, but frankly, you're just plain wrong about there being no downside to rooting any tablet or phone. It is still possible to brick the phone or tablet by messing up the root programming so badly that restoring factory defaults will do nothing.
It still also voids your warranty, and runs a higher risk of malware.
Now, I'm not saying that any of this is certain to happen, in fact they're almost certain not to happen if you're even mildly careful of what you download, but they are things that someone needs to consider when thinking about rooting or jailbreaking any device.
It still also voids your warranty, and runs a higher risk of malware.
Now, I'm not saying that any of this is certain to happen, in fact they're almost certain not to happen if you're even mildly careful of what you download, but they are things that someone needs to consider when thinking about rooting or jailbreaking any device.
#35
Shegokigo
I'm not talking about all tablets and phones, just this one because this is the only one I'm familiar with.
You don't void the warranty because you can reset it instantly. The ease of the ROOT and the fact that it can be reset at anytime is the reason I bought it. You download the root, put it on the memory card, restart the phone, press 3 options and it's done. At any time you want, you go into the options menu, select "Reset to Factory Settings" and it's gone. Simple as that. No danger, no bricking, no warranting voiding.
There's only "Malware" if you don't go to trusted Root sites and you'll never get Malware downloading from the official markets you're able to put on a Rooted phone.
Shegokigo
Shego, I'm trying to be as objective as I can, but frankly, you're just plain wrong about there being no downside to rooting any tablet or phone. It is still possible to brick the phone or tablet by messing up the root programming so badly that restoring factory defaults will do nothing.
It still also voids your warranty, and runs a higher risk of malware.
Now, I'm not saying that any of this is certain to happen, in fact they're almost certain not to happen if you're even mildly careful of what you download, but they are things that someone needs to consider when thinking about rooting or jailbreaking any device.
I want to make this very clear, even though I've already done it 3x:There is no peril to rooting the current 16gb Nook Tablet. With a press of a button you can go back to factory settings.
I'm not talking about all tablets and phones, just this one because this is the only one I'm familiar with.
You don't void the warranty because you can reset it instantly. The ease of the ROOT and the fact that it can be reset at anytime is the reason I bought it. You download the root, put it on the memory card, restart the phone, press 3 options and it's done. At any time you want, you go into the options menu, select "Reset to Factory Settings" and it's gone. Simple as that. No danger, no bricking, no warranting voiding.
There's only "Malware" if you don't go to trusted Root sites and you'll never get Malware downloading from the official markets you're able to put on a Rooted phone.
#36
Bowielee
Bowielee
It is still possible to brick it. As I said, if the root programing gets hosed (IE where the option to reset to factory defaults are) it will both brick the device and void your warranty. This is true of any tablet or phone. It's not like a computer where you can just reformat the drive.
ALSO, if you'd pay attention, this will most likely NEVER happen if you're in the least bit careful. Which I said.
I'm not attacking your choice of tablet, in fact I've heard great things about the nook. You seem to be trying really hard to sell a particular tablet, whereas some of us are trying to give strengths and weaknesses of the different types and brands.
ALSO, if you'd pay attention, this will most likely NEVER happen if you're in the least bit careful. Which I said.
I'm not attacking your choice of tablet, in fact I've heard great things about the nook. You seem to be trying really hard to sell a particular tablet, whereas some of us are trying to give strengths and weaknesses of the different types and brands.
#37
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Again, you're wrong. The root programming is done through a side-loaded memory card, it doesn't permantly affect the main tablet. If you even manage to "temp brick" it, all you do is put the memory card back in and "poof" fixed.
I'm selling this particular tablet because it's the best one for it's price range, not because it's a personal preference. Apple has nothing to compare to it under $300. Sorry, that's just a fact. Other tablets also do not have the same kind of "popularity" as the Nook Tablet which in turn means a much larger "root community" and much more support. So yeah, it's just facts.
I'm selling this particular tablet because it's the best one for it's price range, not because it's a personal preference. Apple has nothing to compare to it under $300. Sorry, that's just a fact. Other tablets also do not have the same kind of "popularity" as the Nook Tablet which in turn means a much larger "root community" and much more support. So yeah, it's just facts.
#38
strawman
Everyone talks about rooting. What does this exactly mean? Why do you do it? What advantages do you get? How do you do it? Its it difficult? Or do I need to pay some Asian guy?
Ignore rooting for now. Buy the device you choose and use it without worrying about what rooting is. Eventually you may find that the manufacturer made some choices for you that you don't like, and you may decide you want to overcome those limitaitons, and at that point you'll look into what rooting is and does for you, but for your initial usage and purchase you don't really have to concern yourself with it.
Also which one allows free Wifi to work?
They all allow free wifi. Every device will allow you to surf the internet out of the box on your wireless network, watch online videos, and do most internet related tasks.
What else can a Nook not do?
Eh. It's not a powerhouse gaming machine. Looks like it doesn't have cameras. Other than that it's a wash.
What is this shit about apps? Are you talking about necessary applications or dipshit stuff like, press this button to activate a gun making application so that when you shake your tablet it makes shooting noises? What exactly are we talking here?
An app is simply a program that does stuff for you. Yes, you can download an app that makes shooting or farting noises, if that's your thing. I'm currently using a relaxation melody generator for white noise (rain, ocean, wind chimes at the moment) and it's got the baby fast asleep. That is a single app. I also read and reference books/comics/manga/journals/datasheets/schematics/etc on it. That is also an app. I check my several email accounts. That's an app. I surf the intertubes. That's an app. I track all my devices (I know my wife made it safely to the conference center in cleveland without having to call her because she's got the ipad with her. When my son misplaces his ipod I can usually find it.) That's an app. I play words with friends with a few people from here, several people in my family, and a few friends via another app. I was streaming the local geek group's meeting online through Ustream using the ipad. That's an app.
An app is just a program that does something for you. Generally speaking when you run an app it takes the whole screen, and you focus on just that one app. When you want to do something else, you switch to another app. When you go back to the first one, you're usually right where you left off. Some apps run in the background as well - so the relax melody app I'm running can run while I read manga, check email, surf the blogosphere, or play words with friends.
Also, if I root it and I download shit off the web, can I get free apps?
Generally you won't have to root your device to load free apps off the internet. Generally there are free apps for anything you might be interested in doing in the app stores. They may be free, or ad supported, but you can do an amazing amount of stuff for no additional cost.
My price range is around $200, I'm not paying 700+ dollars for an iPad, I'd rather buy a small laptop.
I recommend the Kindle Fire. It fits in your price range, it's very usable out of the box, it's extraordinarily popular so if/when you do want to root it, upgrade it, etc you'll find a lot of people have walked that path and it's an easy road.
Is the Nook new? Is that why so many people don't mention it?
The Nook Tablet is new. Barnes and Noble has had nook ereaders for some time now, but this is the first one that could be used as more than a glorified ereader out of the box (ie, without hacking it much). People don't talk about it much because the kindle fire came out and stole its thunder. If the fire hadn't been introduced, then I suspect the nook would have been more well known, but without Amazon's marketing effort and work with major developers to get kindle specific apps into their store the nook never would have made a huge splash even without the kindle stealing its thunder.
It's a reasonable competitor to the Kindle Fire in every respect, except it's not amazon, and it does not have the marketing juggernaut amazon brought to bear when it introduced the fire.
What the fuck is Android? Seems like everything is "Androids". What is this? Some type of OS... which is largely regarded like Vista. Limited as fuck. Badly done?
Android is an operating system owned and developed by Google. If it were a human, you could say that for phones and PDAs, it's gotten past the gangly, pimply teenage years and is a freshman in college. For tablets it's still going through puberty.
Apple's tablet/phone operating system is called iOS. It's perhaps a college senior who's a player - it's got a bright future, but there's still room for an upstart super genius freshman to move in. It's polished and slick, and if you manage to look past the fact that all it's trying to do is bed you, you can expect a lot from it.
Windows has revamped their mobile device OS. Again. And it's polished and very usable on the phone and PDA, but it's not a tablet OS, so doesn't even meet your needs yet.
The general consensus I've read is, fork over 7 twinkies for a good tablet the size of a watermelon to carry with you everywhere or "good luck with the other shit that are all warped deformed children of the overlord".
You will be very happy with the kindle fire. You'll probably be happy with the nook. As a tablet beginner I would not suggest going dirt cheap (find a $69 andoird tablet on woot? Skip it!), but you don't need the iPad. You'll be very happy with the kindle or nook, and after a year or so when other tablets mature a little more you might make a different choice, but by then you'll probably be hooked.
The problem with android is a problem of poor manufacturer support. Amazon is going to support the kindle fire very, very well, so you should not have a problem with it. Barnes and Noble should provide good support as well. They have to if they want to keep selling you content, which is their main source of income.
You won't be disappointed with them.
strawman
Ok.Rewind a bit.
Everyone talks about rooting. What does this exactly mean? Why do you do it? What advantages do you get? How do you do it? Its it difficult? Or do I need to pay some Asian guy?
Ignore rooting for now. Buy the device you choose and use it without worrying about what rooting is. Eventually you may find that the manufacturer made some choices for you that you don't like, and you may decide you want to overcome those limitaitons, and at that point you'll look into what rooting is and does for you, but for your initial usage and purchase you don't really have to concern yourself with it.
Also which one allows free Wifi to work?
They all allow free wifi. Every device will allow you to surf the internet out of the box on your wireless network, watch online videos, and do most internet related tasks.
What else can a Nook not do?
Eh. It's not a powerhouse gaming machine. Looks like it doesn't have cameras. Other than that it's a wash.
What is this shit about apps? Are you talking about necessary applications or dipshit stuff like, press this button to activate a gun making application so that when you shake your tablet it makes shooting noises? What exactly are we talking here?
An app is simply a program that does stuff for you. Yes, you can download an app that makes shooting or farting noises, if that's your thing. I'm currently using a relaxation melody generator for white noise (rain, ocean, wind chimes at the moment) and it's got the baby fast asleep. That is a single app. I also read and reference books/comics/manga/journals/datasheets/schematics/etc on it. That is also an app. I check my several email accounts. That's an app. I surf the intertubes. That's an app. I track all my devices (I know my wife made it safely to the conference center in cleveland without having to call her because she's got the ipad with her. When my son misplaces his ipod I can usually find it.) That's an app. I play words with friends with a few people from here, several people in my family, and a few friends via another app. I was streaming the local geek group's meeting online through Ustream using the ipad. That's an app.
An app is just a program that does something for you. Generally speaking when you run an app it takes the whole screen, and you focus on just that one app. When you want to do something else, you switch to another app. When you go back to the first one, you're usually right where you left off. Some apps run in the background as well - so the relax melody app I'm running can run while I read manga, check email, surf the blogosphere, or play words with friends.
Also, if I root it and I download shit off the web, can I get free apps?
Generally you won't have to root your device to load free apps off the internet. Generally there are free apps for anything you might be interested in doing in the app stores. They may be free, or ad supported, but you can do an amazing amount of stuff for no additional cost.
My price range is around $200, I'm not paying 700+ dollars for an iPad, I'd rather buy a small laptop.
I recommend the Kindle Fire. It fits in your price range, it's very usable out of the box, it's extraordinarily popular so if/when you do want to root it, upgrade it, etc you'll find a lot of people have walked that path and it's an easy road.
Is the Nook new? Is that why so many people don't mention it?
The Nook Tablet is new. Barnes and Noble has had nook ereaders for some time now, but this is the first one that could be used as more than a glorified ereader out of the box (ie, without hacking it much). People don't talk about it much because the kindle fire came out and stole its thunder. If the fire hadn't been introduced, then I suspect the nook would have been more well known, but without Amazon's marketing effort and work with major developers to get kindle specific apps into their store the nook never would have made a huge splash even without the kindle stealing its thunder.
It's a reasonable competitor to the Kindle Fire in every respect, except it's not amazon, and it does not have the marketing juggernaut amazon brought to bear when it introduced the fire.
What the fuck is Android? Seems like everything is "Androids". What is this? Some type of OS... which is largely regarded like Vista. Limited as fuck. Badly done?
Android is an operating system owned and developed by Google. If it were a human, you could say that for phones and PDAs, it's gotten past the gangly, pimply teenage years and is a freshman in college. For tablets it's still going through puberty.
Apple's tablet/phone operating system is called iOS. It's perhaps a college senior who's a player - it's got a bright future, but there's still room for an upstart super genius freshman to move in. It's polished and slick, and if you manage to look past the fact that all it's trying to do is bed you, you can expect a lot from it.
Windows has revamped their mobile device OS. Again. And it's polished and very usable on the phone and PDA, but it's not a tablet OS, so doesn't even meet your needs yet.
The general consensus I've read is, fork over 7 twinkies for a good tablet the size of a watermelon to carry with you everywhere or "good luck with the other shit that are all warped deformed children of the overlord".
You will be very happy with the kindle fire. You'll probably be happy with the nook. As a tablet beginner I would not suggest going dirt cheap (find a $69 andoird tablet on woot? Skip it!), but you don't need the iPad. You'll be very happy with the kindle or nook, and after a year or so when other tablets mature a little more you might make a different choice, but by then you'll probably be hooked.
The problem with android is a problem of poor manufacturer support. Amazon is going to support the kindle fire very, very well, so you should not have a problem with it. Barnes and Noble should provide good support as well. They have to if they want to keep selling you content, which is their main source of income.
You won't be disappointed with them.
#39
Bowielee
Bowielee
Again, you are wrong. 16GB nooks have been bricked. AS I SAID MULTIPLE TIMES, this will not happen if you're the slightest bit careful, but it is possible.
#40
PatrThom
I learned more about tablets in the 30min researching for this thread than I did in my entire previous life experience browsing tech sites (while not specifically looking for tablet info, that is). Steinman's post above is quite informative, and I believe he has made a genuine attempt to explain the tabletspace.
What I would question is your reason for getting a tablet. That is, if you are looking to get a tablet just because people around you keep saying how cool tablets are, then you probably don't actually need one. If the only things you want to do with it are to surf the web while you're on the Crapper, or to play Temple Run or Angry Birds: Space, then just get an iPod Touch, which can do all that and fit in your pocket comfortably. Seriously, if you can't sit down right now and draw up a list of the specific reasons why you need a "tablet" instead of an ultrabook/netbook, then you should probably either just get the iPod or save until you can afford the ultra-/netbook. Otherwise you are very likely setting yourself up for disappointment.
Every tablet manufacturer has designed their tablet in such a way as to not play nice with the other tablet people. The only "exception" to this I know of is that the iPad has the ability to install Kindle/Nook apps to allow you to use the Amazon/B&N eBook formats, and the only reason these apps likely exist is because Amazon and B&N realized early that the iPad juggernaut would crush them if they didn't make some way for people to read their stuff on an iPad. And this isn't bias/favoritism on my part...Apple jumped into the tablet race and made a lot of headway before everyone else started taking tablets seriously, so they have a pretty big head start.
Again, all of the above is moot if you work to circumvent the respective flavors of vendor lock-in, but I strongly concur with Steinman: Choose your tablet based on what you can do with it out of the box, but also pay some serious mind to the hardware specs, because if you do decide to later remove the blinders/training wheels/mittens, those specs will have significantly more influence on what you can/can't/shouldn't* do.
--Patrick
*For instance, just because the safeties are off and you can now turn the wifi power up to 2x normal for double range doesn't mean you should do so, since that much microwave radiation will probably burn/discolor your screen or damage the other internals. Some limits really are there for a reason.
PatrThom
To clarify: iWork is a suite of 3 apps, which each cost $10. So if you buy them all, yes it will be $30.Comparing that with Apple, who will often charge absurd prices for apps that should have been included in the first place (like iMovie or iWork, the latter coming in at, I believe, $30)
I learned more about tablets in the 30min researching for this thread than I did in my entire previous life experience browsing tech sites (while not specifically looking for tablet info, that is). Steinman's post above is quite informative, and I believe he has made a genuine attempt to explain the tabletspace.
What I would question is your reason for getting a tablet. That is, if you are looking to get a tablet just because people around you keep saying how cool tablets are, then you probably don't actually need one. If the only things you want to do with it are to surf the web while you're on the Crapper, or to play Temple Run or Angry Birds: Space, then just get an iPod Touch, which can do all that and fit in your pocket comfortably. Seriously, if you can't sit down right now and draw up a list of the specific reasons why you need a "tablet" instead of an ultrabook/netbook, then you should probably either just get the iPod or save until you can afford the ultra-/netbook. Otherwise you are very likely setting yourself up for disappointment.
Every tablet manufacturer has designed their tablet in such a way as to not play nice with the other tablet people. The only "exception" to this I know of is that the iPad has the ability to install Kindle/Nook apps to allow you to use the Amazon/B&N eBook formats, and the only reason these apps likely exist is because Amazon and B&N realized early that the iPad juggernaut would crush them if they didn't make some way for people to read their stuff on an iPad. And this isn't bias/favoritism on my part...Apple jumped into the tablet race and made a lot of headway before everyone else started taking tablets seriously, so they have a pretty big head start.
Again, all of the above is moot if you work to circumvent the respective flavors of vendor lock-in, but I strongly concur with Steinman: Choose your tablet based on what you can do with it out of the box, but also pay some serious mind to the hardware specs, because if you do decide to later remove the blinders/training wheels/mittens, those specs will have significantly more influence on what you can/can't/shouldn't* do.
--Patrick
*For instance, just because the safeties are off and you can now turn the wifi power up to 2x normal for double range doesn't mean you should do so, since that much microwave radiation will probably burn/discolor your screen or damage the other internals. Some limits really are there for a reason.
#41
jwhouk
jwhouk
You can "brick" anything electronic, given the right circumstance, misuse and/or possible exposure to a high-density magnetic field.
#42
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
I own a playbook and have used an ipad frequently, and the playbook is a very good tablet for it's price. My son has thrown it on the ground and jumped on it! Still works fine. It is a rugged little machine that is just the right size for carrying around with you. Apps are bathtub gin poor but I don't worry about sharing it with kids.The playbook: the only reason you would consider buying this is for patriotism.
#43
Covar
Covar
Fun Fact, the Playbook and Kindle Fire are virtually the same piece of hardware.
#44
Bowielee
Obviously people are more interested in some sort of my tablet is better than your tablet penis measuring contest, rather than actually looking at the available hardware, so I'm officially through with this conversation.
Bowielee
OK, find, the 16GB Nooks have been bricked by attempts to root them... happy?You can "brick" anything electronic, given the right circumstance, misuse and/or possible exposure to a high-density magnetic field.
Obviously people are more interested in some sort of my tablet is better than your tablet penis measuring contest, rather than actually looking at the available hardware, so I'm officially through with this conversation.
#45
Shegokigo
As for the rest of this thread, yeah it's alot to take in Jay but in the end, all you have to do is ask yourself these two questions:
How much do I want to spend?
What do I want to do with a tablet?
If the answer to the first question is: Everything but take pictures/video chat for less than $400. Then your options are Kindle Fire and Nook 16gb. They're really the best due to their large popularity and they do really good work for their owners. However, as stated, for $50 more you get twice the power in the Nook than you would with the Kindle Fire.
Both are easily rootable, so the "market restrictions" don't matter. As for someone saying "Just use it out of the box" then you're just denying what you really could have. It'd be like buying Skyrim for PC and being told you could only choose between a mage class or a thief class. Yet to spend 5 minutes modding the game, you could have both. Which would you do?
Shegokigo
Good to hear because you have no idea what you're talking about. I already said the worst you can do, while rooting it, is temporary brick it which is instantly resetable. The Nook 16gb is not "permantely ruinable" through rooting. I'm sorry you can't understand that.OK, find, the 16GB Nooks have been bricked by attempts to root them... happy?
Obviously people are more interested in some sort of my tablet is better than your tablet penis measuring contest, rather than actually looking at the available hardware, so I'm officially through with this conversation.
As for the rest of this thread, yeah it's alot to take in Jay but in the end, all you have to do is ask yourself these two questions:
How much do I want to spend?
What do I want to do with a tablet?
If the answer to the first question is: Everything but take pictures/video chat for less than $400. Then your options are Kindle Fire and Nook 16gb. They're really the best due to their large popularity and they do really good work for their owners. However, as stated, for $50 more you get twice the power in the Nook than you would with the Kindle Fire.
Both are easily rootable, so the "market restrictions" don't matter. As for someone saying "Just use it out of the box" then you're just denying what you really could have. It'd be like buying Skyrim for PC and being told you could only choose between a mage class or a thief class. Yet to spend 5 minutes modding the game, you could have both. Which would you do?
#46
Necronic
Necronic
For the price range you are talking about the fight is between the Nook and the Kindle. Or possibly last-gen tablets (I think the old transformer goes for like 250.) The main reason I focused on iPads was simply to give that perspective, but for your price point it simply is not a good buy.
#47
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
True dat. Even a cordless phone can be bricked by a power surge if it's on the charger when it happens.You can "brick" anything electronic, given the right circumstance, misuse and/or possible exposure to a high-density magnetic field.
Honestly, all I saw was some dickering over semantics, not the dicking over of any specific vendor(s).Obviously people are more interested in some sort of my tablet is better than your tablet penis measuring contest, rather than actually looking at the available hardware, so I'm officially through with this conversation.
--Patrick
#48
Jay
Jay
Let's talk iPads, which one should I get?
(looks like I may get one free from work - I crit rolled my diplomacy skill)
(looks like I may get one free from work - I crit rolled my diplomacy skill)
#49
strawman
Beyond that, I no longer recommend getting anything above 16GB. I can't stomach paying another $100 just to get another 16GB, or $200 to get an additional 48GB. If you need the space, then you have to spend more it since you can't add memory via SD card or anything, but if you just want to watch movies on the road you can get wifi hard drives that hold tons more for $100 or so. I keep about 10GB for apps (most apps are a few dozen megabytes, high end games are a few hundred megabytes, and some extraordinary games or GPS mapping apps are over a GB) and have the other 6GB for music, videos, and for recording videos/photos. I think it's enough for most users, especially if you simply use streaming from netflix or a similar service rather than depending on the onboard storage.
On the other hand my first iPad has 64GB and 3G for streaming, and I still managed to fill it up with stuff that I would use, so more space isn't bad, I just can't justify the fee apple is charging.
Save the extra money for a case, a digital (HDMI) adapter and a VGA adapter so you can display stuff on larger screens, a bluetooth keyboard if you want to use it to type long missives, and a little money for those apps that are worth paying for. I've never used a dock with it, but some people like being able to set the ipad upright on their desk/nightstand for charging.
Apple also now sells applecare for ipad for $99 which extends the warranty and provides accident coverage (up to twice for the whole term, and with a $50 fee per incident) so if you drop it and it breaks, dunk it in water, run over it, etc then you aren't out $$$, just $. I haven't yet dropped my new ipad on concrete, but the iPad gen 1 could take a significant beating without breaking. However I bought the applecare anyway, because, you know, kids.
Browse around the apple online store and check out all the options and accessories, then come back and ask questions. http://store.apple.com
strawman
Get a 4G model, because even if you don't pay for service you still get the GPS, and you can turn on service (and on verizon use it as a wifi hotspot for other devices) on a monthly basis with no contract or termination fees. The wifi-only models don't have a real GPS, so mapping apps are useless unless you happen to be near open wifi hotspots that are geolocated. You could save $100 with an iPad 2, rather than an iPad 3, but I'd say the 4G connectivity, better cameras, faster processor, and more RAM (RAM is not listed on Apple's site, but there's 2x the ram in the new ipad as there is in the ipad 2, and it really helps in speed and app switching) are worth the $100. Oh, and the ability to use "find my ipad" if you lose it (or it gets stolen) or to wipe it remotely is much better with a 4G than a wifi model. I don't know if it works without the monthly service though...Let's talk iPads, which one should I get?
(looks like I may get one free from work - I crit rolled my diplomacy skill)
Beyond that, I no longer recommend getting anything above 16GB. I can't stomach paying another $100 just to get another 16GB, or $200 to get an additional 48GB. If you need the space, then you have to spend more it since you can't add memory via SD card or anything, but if you just want to watch movies on the road you can get wifi hard drives that hold tons more for $100 or so. I keep about 10GB for apps (most apps are a few dozen megabytes, high end games are a few hundred megabytes, and some extraordinary games or GPS mapping apps are over a GB) and have the other 6GB for music, videos, and for recording videos/photos. I think it's enough for most users, especially if you simply use streaming from netflix or a similar service rather than depending on the onboard storage.
On the other hand my first iPad has 64GB and 3G for streaming, and I still managed to fill it up with stuff that I would use, so more space isn't bad, I just can't justify the fee apple is charging.
Save the extra money for a case, a digital (HDMI) adapter and a VGA adapter so you can display stuff on larger screens, a bluetooth keyboard if you want to use it to type long missives, and a little money for those apps that are worth paying for. I've never used a dock with it, but some people like being able to set the ipad upright on their desk/nightstand for charging.
Apple also now sells applecare for ipad for $99 which extends the warranty and provides accident coverage (up to twice for the whole term, and with a $50 fee per incident) so if you drop it and it breaks, dunk it in water, run over it, etc then you aren't out $$$, just $. I haven't yet dropped my new ipad on concrete, but the iPad gen 1 could take a significant beating without breaking. However I bought the applecare anyway, because, you know, kids.
Browse around the apple online store and check out all the options and accessories, then come back and ask questions. http://store.apple.com
#50
PatrThom
PatrThom
Crit feature differences are as follows:
iPad 2 - Lower price, slightly longer runtime (+20-30min at best), less prone to temperature issues, slimmest/lightest.
iPad 3 - Significantly better camera, 2x RAM, 4x pixel density. LTE (4G) optional.
Single biggest reason to spring for the 3rd one would probably be for its larger RAM.
At this time, I do not recommend purchasing a 1st gen iPad (used or otherwise) unless you specifically need a model that does NOT have a camera.
--Patrick
iPad 2 - Lower price, slightly longer runtime (+20-30min at best), less prone to temperature issues, slimmest/lightest.
iPad 3 - Significantly better camera, 2x RAM, 4x pixel density. LTE (4G) optional.
Single biggest reason to spring for the 3rd one would probably be for its larger RAM.
At this time, I do not recommend purchasing a 1st gen iPad (used or otherwise) unless you specifically need a model that does NOT have a camera.
--Patrick
#51
jwhouk
jwhouk
This is gonna sound dumb, but I kinda would like to know: can you get an iPad without having a Verizon/AT&T account? IOW, an iPad without the cell phone capability?
If not, I think my answer to all this is probably going to be an iPod Touch.
If not, I think my answer to all this is probably going to be an iPod Touch.
#52
Bowielee
Bowielee
No provider is needed. Some models don't even have g3 or g4 capabilities (it knocks about 100.00 off the price). But no matter what model you get, you are never required to use any sort of connection.This is gonna sound dumb, but I kinda would like to know: can you get an iPad without having a Verizon/AT&T account? IOW, an iPad without the cell phone capability?
If not, I think my answer to all this is probably going to be an iPod Touch.
#53
strawman
The wifi only model is $130 cheaper than the cellular and wifi model.
If you buy the cellular model you don't have to have a cellular account. If you want to activate the cellular modem, you put your credit card number into the ipad, and buy one month at a time. No contracts, no fees. It auto-renews each month, so when you want to stop paying, you go back into settings and turn the service off.
The one advantage to having the cellular model even if you never intend to use it is to get a real GPS. The wifi only model does not have GPS, it uses wifi positioning, which is ok for some things, but not good for navigation. And, of course, if you find yourself needing the internet badly with no wifi around then you can buy a month's worth of access on the spot.
strawman
Yes. When you buy one you have the choice of wifi only, or wifi and cellular together. If you buy the wifi and cellular together, you have your choice of AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint.This is gonna sound dumb, but I kinda would like to know: can you get an iPad without having a Verizon/AT&T account? IOW, an iPad without the cell phone capability?.
The wifi only model is $130 cheaper than the cellular and wifi model.
If you buy the cellular model you don't have to have a cellular account. If you want to activate the cellular modem, you put your credit card number into the ipad, and buy one month at a time. No contracts, no fees. It auto-renews each month, so when you want to stop paying, you go back into settings and turn the service off.
The one advantage to having the cellular model even if you never intend to use it is to get a real GPS. The wifi only model does not have GPS, it uses wifi positioning, which is ok for some things, but not good for navigation. And, of course, if you find yourself needing the internet badly with no wifi around then you can buy a month's worth of access on the spot.
#54
Covar
Currently Verizon is the only one providing tethering with the new iPad at no additional cost. So with a single click your iPad will become a wi-fi hotspot that you can connect your computer to. Verizon also has a much larger LTE network in the United States. Price wise AT&T and Verizon charge the same amounts for the same amount of data (rant for another time), but unless you just can't get any Verizon signal (really?) I can't think why you would want to go with an AT&T iPad.
Covar
Just to elaborate on this. Even though you don't need to have an account or make one when you purchase, you still have to pick a carrier for technical reasons. Both AT&T and Verizon implement their LTE (and 3G) network(s) on different bands of spectrum and different standards of implementation. This requires Apple to use different radios and chip sets for each. Which is why you need to pick the carrier at purchase.Yes. When you buy one you have the choice of wifi only, or wifi and cellular together. If you buy the wifi and cellular together, you have your choice of AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint.
Currently Verizon is the only one providing tethering with the new iPad at no additional cost. So with a single click your iPad will become a wi-fi hotspot that you can connect your computer to. Verizon also has a much larger LTE network in the United States. Price wise AT&T and Verizon charge the same amounts for the same amount of data (rant for another time), but unless you just can't get any Verizon signal (really?) I can't think why you would want to go with an AT&T iPad.
#55
jwhouk
jwhouk
I decided, since I have a wi-fi hotspot and didn't want to have to trek two-three hours away to the nearest Apple Store, to go with an iPod Touch 8 GB. Only purpose of it is probably going to be to do stuff my iPod 16 GB can't (since it's the older nano version).
#56
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
I got an iPad 3 purely because I take plane trips across country 2 (sometimes more) times a month, and now those 6 hour flights in economy class are considerably less painful to live through when its the middle of the day and I can't fall asleep.
#57
Jay
Jay
So yeah... bought the IPad 3 4G 64 GB this afternoon.
Playing a bit with it....
IT'S NOW TIME TO RECOMMEND APPS TO ME FOLKS.
You have all been super helpful.
Danke.
Playing a bit with it....
IT'S NOW TIME TO RECOMMEND APPS TO ME FOLKS.
You have all been super helpful.
Danke.
#58
Jay
Jay
Just tell me apps you like.
#59
Bowielee
Bowielee
Productivity:
Goodreader- great for PDFs and allows full "sticky notes" and highlighting.
Dropbox- great cloud storage that you can also install on your computer to keep all the files synced.
NoteShelf- great note taking app. They always try to push Penultimate, but I thought that app was terrible. Works best with a stylus. you can pick them up for 10-15 bucks at best buy.
ArtStudio- pretty good art app, allows layers and has some pretty good pen/brush customization options.
CloudReader- if you use CBR files at all, this is great.
Games:
Zen Pinball- best pinball game I've played on any platform, but you do have to pay a buck for most tables.
Infinity Blade- it will look great with the retina display.
Aquaria- great metroidvania style game.
Sword and Sorcery EP- Great sound
Dead Space- EA runs specials every few months where you can get any game in their catalog for .99, when that comes around, I'd recommend picking this up.
Words with Friends - If you like scrabble, you'll love this game.
BattleHeart- There are no words for how much I love this game.
PuzzleQuest- You wouldn't think that bejeweled and RPGs would go so well together.
Beneath a Steel Sky or Broken Sword- scratches the old school point and click adventure game itch.
Final Fantasy 3- if you like JRPGs
Anomoly HD- great tower defense game, but in reverse.
Goodreader- great for PDFs and allows full "sticky notes" and highlighting.
Dropbox- great cloud storage that you can also install on your computer to keep all the files synced.
NoteShelf- great note taking app. They always try to push Penultimate, but I thought that app was terrible. Works best with a stylus. you can pick them up for 10-15 bucks at best buy.
ArtStudio- pretty good art app, allows layers and has some pretty good pen/brush customization options.
CloudReader- if you use CBR files at all, this is great.
Games:
Zen Pinball- best pinball game I've played on any platform, but you do have to pay a buck for most tables.
Infinity Blade- it will look great with the retina display.
Aquaria- great metroidvania style game.
Sword and Sorcery EP- Great sound
Dead Space- EA runs specials every few months where you can get any game in their catalog for .99, when that comes around, I'd recommend picking this up.
Words with Friends - If you like scrabble, you'll love this game.
BattleHeart- There are no words for how much I love this game.
PuzzleQuest- You wouldn't think that bejeweled and RPGs would go so well together.
Beneath a Steel Sky or Broken Sword- scratches the old school point and click adventure game itch.
Final Fantasy 3- if you like JRPGs
Anomoly HD- great tower defense game, but in reverse.
#60
Bowielee
Bowielee
And yes, there is a Kindle app. It's free and syncs with your amazon account.
#61
Covar
Covar
- Kindle
- Netflix (asuming you have Netflix)
- Reeder - really great Google Reader (RSS feeds) app for iOS.
- Downcast - great little podcast app, lets you play only audio for your video podcasts so you have that option. Lot's of other great podcasting features, clean interface, and a responsive dev.
- Jot! - whiteboard app, free version has a small little banner ad, doesn't get in the way. Like a whiteboard it's not the most complex drawing app, but it gets the job done
- Evernote - great notetaking app, stores everything on the cloud, so you can access your notes from a browser or any evernote program (iOS, Android, windows, mac)
- Skype - video works well on the iPad
#62
PatrThom
PatrThom
-Remote (handy!)
-iBooks
-Kindle
-Nook
-Trailers
-iTunesU
-Pandora
-Spotify
-Shazam
-Stitcher Radio
-A.S.P. (this will be fun for about a week, still fun to return to)
-GasBuddy
-Skype
-TEDMobile
-Edmunds
-Flipboard
-Dropbox
-Speed Test
-RunPee
-Yelp
-AppsGoneFree
...all of the above are free!
And, if you have any interest at all in making music, also consider:
-Garageband
-ReBirth
Want to draw?
-Procreate
-SketchBook Pro
If you are looking for utility:
-Air Sharing
-Air Display
--Patrick
-iBooks
-Kindle
-Nook
-Trailers
-iTunesU
-Pandora
-Spotify
-Shazam
-Stitcher Radio
-A.S.P. (this will be fun for about a week, still fun to return to)
-GasBuddy
-Skype
-TEDMobile
-Edmunds
-Dropbox
-Speed Test
-RunPee
-Yelp
-AppsGoneFree
...all of the above are free!
And, if you have any interest at all in making music, also consider:
-Garageband
-ReBirth
Want to draw?
-Procreate
-SketchBook Pro
If you are looking for utility:
-Air Sharing
-Air Display
--Patrick
#63
Bowielee
Bowielee
Do they have an iPad version now, or is it still the iPhone version.-Speed Test
#64
PatrThom
PatrThom
Think it's still the same ol' same ol'. It has no + next to it, so I assume it's still small.
--Patrick
--Patrick
#65
Bowielee
Bowielee
Not that it matters, it works the same either way, I was just curious.
#66
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
It is. It works fine, but the display is iPhone sized.Think it's still the same ol' same ol'. It has no + next to it, so I assume it's still small.
--Patrick
#67
Jay
Jay
Gonna check those apps.
Quick question, how do I setup this thing to connect to a network computer? The fuck is airprint and no, the 5000$ printer we got got does not have this wireless feature. Why can't I see network printer like you know.... WINDOWS? I mean seriously Apple if I cannot even easily connect to a printer....
Yes there's a 10$ app that does this... but ffs, I'm not inclined to pay money to use printing ability.
Quick question, how do I setup this thing to connect to a network computer? The fuck is airprint and no, the 5000$ printer we got got does not have this wireless feature. Why can't I see network printer like you know.... WINDOWS? I mean seriously Apple if I cannot even easily connect to a printer....
Yes there's a 10$ app that does this... but ffs, I'm not inclined to pay money to use printing ability.
#68
PatrThom
PatrThom
Please to be clarifying your questions.
-To connect what to a network computer? Wifi? Syncing? Printing? Video? Sound? VNC? iTunes? Docs? Email? Facebook? What?
-Airprint is a new thing that lets you print from iOS to newer wireless printers.
-Why can't you see a network printer like, you know, WINDOWS? Cuz it's not WINDOWS.
Take a moment, take some deep breaths, then return to the problem when you have calmed down. Learning new things is not the proper time to be raging. When you are ready, then you will learn.
--Patrick
-To connect what to a network computer? Wifi? Syncing? Printing? Video? Sound? VNC? iTunes? Docs? Email? Facebook? What?
-Airprint is a new thing that lets you print from iOS to newer wireless printers.
-Why can't you see a network printer like, you know, WINDOWS? Cuz it's not WINDOWS.
Take a moment, take some deep breaths, then return to the problem when you have calmed down. Learning new things is not the proper time to be raging. When you are ready, then you will learn.
--Patrick
#69
DarkAudit
I installed AirPrint installer on my PC.
Set up a Guest account on same PC.
Followed Guimon's instructions in this thread.
Might have to reboot inbetween installing AirPrint installer and running those tweaks, but it works here.
DarkAudit
I didn't pay anything and I can print from my non-airprint equipped printer.Gonna check those apps.
Quick question, how do I setup this thing to connect to a network computer? The fuck is airprint and no, the 5000$ printer we got got does not have this wireless feature. Why can't I see network printer like you know.... WINDOWS? I mean seriously Apple if I cannot even easily connect to a printer....
Yes there's a 10$ app that does this... but ffs, I'm not inclined to pay money to use printing ability.
I installed AirPrint installer on my PC.
Set up a Guest account on same PC.
Followed Guimon's instructions in this thread.
Might have to reboot inbetween installing AirPrint installer and running those tweaks, but it works here.
#70
Jay
Jay
iPad to a Network Canon Printer.
#71
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
Yep. Mine's a Canon too. I turned on wi-fi on the printer before I did all the above.iPad to a Network Canon Printer.
#72
Covar
Covar
if wi-fi is on you should get a popup when networks are in range asking you if you want to join one. Tap the network you want and enter the passkey if necessary. iOS will remember any connections for future reference. You can also manage your wi-fi connections from the settings.
Printers are the nonliving spawns of Satan.
Printers are the nonliving spawns of Satan.
#73
Jay
Jay
My printer is an all-in-one model, it does everything except wifi.
I still don't understand how the iPad cannot connect to an internal IP address on the network to an open network computer and send print jobs without going through a shitload of hassle. I can setup a Win 98 computer within the hour on a POS workstation and get this done without a problem but the iPad cannot work without an air printer? It's ridiculous.
And setting up proxy services on my PC to emulate this function isn't ideal.
How I'm able to listen to a radio station on the other side of the planet in SECONDS on this this but not be able to connect to a local network printer 10 feet away is beyond me.
More research to be done tonight....
Take 3 steps front, go 4 back because of poor Apple vision.
UPGRADE EVERYTHING
I still don't understand how the iPad cannot connect to an internal IP address on the network to an open network computer and send print jobs without going through a shitload of hassle. I can setup a Win 98 computer within the hour on a POS workstation and get this done without a problem but the iPad cannot work without an air printer? It's ridiculous.
And setting up proxy services on my PC to emulate this function isn't ideal.
How I'm able to listen to a radio station on the other side of the planet in SECONDS on this this but not be able to connect to a local network printer 10 feet away is beyond me.
More research to be done tonight....
Take 3 steps front, go 4 back because of poor Apple vision.
UPGRADE EVERYTHING
#74
Bowielee
Bowielee
Well, if your router were an Airport it wouldn't be an issue. Apple has always been about the proprietary hardware. Its not like that is some sort of secret.
#75
Jay
Jay
Yeah well that whole concept is retarded and shouldn't be accepted as, "che sera sera"
My iPad is connected to my home network with the exact same concept as my 2 home laptops....WIFI.
WIFI router hooked up directly to network printer.
A WONDERFUL TECHNOLOGY THAT WORKS AS IT SHOULD FOR 4 WINDOWS OS BASED COMPUTERS.
But noooo.... I need to hold Apple's hand to make the iPad perform basic functions such as printing. Install a virtual bridge here they say. Get a newer printer with DIPSHIT AIR TECH they say, now it's get a DIPSHIT AIR ROUTER tech they say.
People, I appreciate advice, I really do. But make sense. Not only for me but also for yourselves along with your wallets.
Anyways, I did have fun installing a few apps from the app store last night, lots of good things to come from there... but I never thought I'd be wasting 2+ hours wondering WTF does it take to make an IPad print like a normal device.
My iPad is connected to my home network with the exact same concept as my 2 home laptops....WIFI.
WIFI router hooked up directly to network printer.
A WONDERFUL TECHNOLOGY THAT WORKS AS IT SHOULD FOR 4 WINDOWS OS BASED COMPUTERS.
But noooo.... I need to hold Apple's hand to make the iPad perform basic functions such as printing. Install a virtual bridge here they say. Get a newer printer with DIPSHIT AIR TECH they say, now it's get a DIPSHIT AIR ROUTER tech they say.
People, I appreciate advice, I really do. But make sense. Not only for me but also for yourselves along with your wallets.
Anyways, I did have fun installing a few apps from the app store last night, lots of good things to come from there... but I never thought I'd be wasting 2+ hours wondering WTF does it take to make an IPad print like a normal device.
#76
PatrThom
PatrThom
Just remember that Apple has a 14-day return policy. I know the iPad does a lot, but if it's not going to do what you want (or will but not without giving you a migraine), then don't hesitate to turn it back in and get something else that does.
Lest anyone think I am being snarky, this is the same advice I would give anyone about any product*.
--Patrick
*or boyfriend/girlfriend, for that matter.
Lest anyone think I am being snarky, this is the same advice I would give anyone about any product*.
--Patrick
*or boyfriend/girlfriend, for that matter.
#77
Bowielee
Bowielee
Honestly, the printing thing has never been an issue. I don't have anything on my iPad that I would need to print.
Yes, it does suck.
No, it's not a coincidence that it's harder to make Apple products play nice with windows products. But that is what happens when you try to integrate technology from competing companies. They aren't going to make it easy for you because they're trying to schill their own products.
Yes, it does suck.
No, it's not a coincidence that it's harder to make Apple products play nice with windows products. But that is what happens when you try to integrate technology from competing companies. They aren't going to make it easy for you because they're trying to schill their own products.
#78
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
*whistles to herself and grins*
#79
Jay
Jay
...what?
What does integrating technology have anything to do with an iPad sending out print jobs through a wireless router to a network printer it already has access to? Why even bother with DIPSHIT AIR TECH?
Let's be honest, Apple sells devices that cannot print without you needing to upgrade your other shit to match their limitations or requiring you to buy apps to accomplish the simplest things. This would be the equivalent of Windows not implementing the Spooler service allowing you to print and going "TROLOLO, give me money to be able to print." "Ooooh, if you want the internetz too, we'll throw in TCP/IP for half price."
Comon.
I was hoping for actual solutions, not being marketed more Apple products to be able to do standard tasks.
Going to have to waste more time tonight to find a solution to this retardation. Man, these iPad jokes are so completely warranted... you'd think they'd fix this by the ipad 3
but watch out, retina display! so many pixels your eye cannot even detect! maybe my print job is somewhere in there
LSMS
IPAD 3 = "Still doesn't come with standard printing tech available since DOS but hey... buy more of our products to be able to."
What does integrating technology have anything to do with an iPad sending out print jobs through a wireless router to a network printer it already has access to? Why even bother with DIPSHIT AIR TECH?
Let's be honest, Apple sells devices that cannot print without you needing to upgrade your other shit to match their limitations or requiring you to buy apps to accomplish the simplest things. This would be the equivalent of Windows not implementing the Spooler service allowing you to print and going "TROLOLO, give me money to be able to print." "Ooooh, if you want the internetz too, we'll throw in TCP/IP for half price."
Comon.
I was hoping for actual solutions, not being marketed more Apple products to be able to do standard tasks.
Going to have to waste more time tonight to find a solution to this retardation. Man, these iPad jokes are so completely warranted... you'd think they'd fix this by the ipad 3
but watch out, retina display! so many pixels your eye cannot even detect! maybe my print job is somewhere in there
LSMS
IPAD 3 = "Still doesn't come with standard printing tech available since DOS but hey... buy more of our products to be able to."
#80
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
It's like DLC for your tablet 
#81
Bowielee
Bowielee
Well, as was already said, you can always return it if you don't like it not having one function that you want.
#82
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
My printer is an MP560. Not on the list of AirPrint-equipped printers. I did the steps in my previous post and can print just fine from my iPad. Money spent on apps to do so? Nothing.
Like I said, I turned on the printer's wi-fi before I started those steps.
Like I said, I turned on the printer's wi-fi before I started those steps.
#83
Bowielee
Bowielee
His printer is not wifi capable. He'd have to connect through a router.My printer is an MP560. Not on the list of AirPrint-equipped printers. I did the steps in my previous post and can print just fine from my iPad. Money spent on apps to do so? Nothing.
Like I said, I turned on the printer's wi-fi before I started those steps.
#84
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
Since I had to install the software and configure the service on the PC instead of the iPad, I'd still reckon this would work. I had to set up the guest account to get it working, but all I did there was turn it on.His printer is not wifi capable. He'd have to connect through a router.
#85
MindDetective
MindDetective
Sounds like you bought the wrong product for you needs, Jay. Apple didn't promise network printing on the iPad for all possible conditions. Apple products are not even designed for all possible conditions. That is what Android and Windows are for. Those operating systems try to allow as broad use as possible. Apple's strategy is to try and optimize performance for a limited number of situations rather than be all inclusive but more prone to hiccups.
#86
Covar
Covar
lol printers.
#87
strawman
strawman
The reason the iPad doesn't print and your windows computers do is that at one point you installed a printer driver for one of your windows computers, and they are all sharing it. Printers do not speak the same language, each one has it's own API and you can't run a canon using an hp driver, for instance.
Air print is apple saying, "look, this is stupid. We're not going to force our customers to load a new driver on every iOS device they own just so they can print to a new printer. Instead we're going to define a common language, and if you printer makers implement it then the iPad will print to it."
Yeah, it means you either need to buy a new printer that knows this language, or buy an app that speaks your printers specialized language, or install software on your pc that translates between the AirPrint language and your printers language.
Apple is not about backwards compatibility. They aren't content to bloat iOS devices with literally gigabytes of printer drivers just so they can talk to the hundred most popular printers. It's absurd that they even have to, after decades printer manufacturers still insist that their individual way of telling a printer how to put ink on paper is better than everyone else, and maintaining a proprietary standard.
It's not any better on android devices, and the printing situation for ios devices is already leaps and bounds better because there's a standard printing API.
Yea, its a pain for customers. But guess what? Most people are only printing out of habit. You've got a high resolution display in your hand, and Internet connectivity at your fingertips. You can move it from room to room, and even take it out of the house and know its going to last all day.
I'm interested to understand what you are so keen to print that this is becoming such a major issue for you?
If you're trying to capture information for later, use Evernote, Dropbox, or one of a hundred other methods of storing and retrieving snippets of info you need.
If you're trying out a new recipe, take the iPad to the kitchen. It wipes off if you aren't a terribly messy cook and if you are then cover it with Saran wrap. Problem solved, the touch screen still works even.
If you need to give a piece of information to someone else, email it and let them decide if they really need it in dead tree form or not.
There are good reasons for printing, of course, but it seems like you're overreacting. You haven't said anything about the bridge dark audit has mentioned.
Do you need a solution, or are you merely whining for the sake of whining?
Sent from my frickin iPad where adding proper punctuation is more work than it should be. Add your own apostrophes where iOS didn't do it for me.
Air print is apple saying, "look, this is stupid. We're not going to force our customers to load a new driver on every iOS device they own just so they can print to a new printer. Instead we're going to define a common language, and if you printer makers implement it then the iPad will print to it."
Yeah, it means you either need to buy a new printer that knows this language, or buy an app that speaks your printers specialized language, or install software on your pc that translates between the AirPrint language and your printers language.
Apple is not about backwards compatibility. They aren't content to bloat iOS devices with literally gigabytes of printer drivers just so they can talk to the hundred most popular printers. It's absurd that they even have to, after decades printer manufacturers still insist that their individual way of telling a printer how to put ink on paper is better than everyone else, and maintaining a proprietary standard.
It's not any better on android devices, and the printing situation for ios devices is already leaps and bounds better because there's a standard printing API.
Yea, its a pain for customers. But guess what? Most people are only printing out of habit. You've got a high resolution display in your hand, and Internet connectivity at your fingertips. You can move it from room to room, and even take it out of the house and know its going to last all day.
I'm interested to understand what you are so keen to print that this is becoming such a major issue for you?
If you're trying to capture information for later, use Evernote, Dropbox, or one of a hundred other methods of storing and retrieving snippets of info you need.
If you're trying out a new recipe, take the iPad to the kitchen. It wipes off if you aren't a terribly messy cook and if you are then cover it with Saran wrap. Problem solved, the touch screen still works even.
If you need to give a piece of information to someone else, email it and let them decide if they really need it in dead tree form or not.
There are good reasons for printing, of course, but it seems like you're overreacting. You haven't said anything about the bridge dark audit has mentioned.
Do you need a solution, or are you merely whining for the sake of whining?
Sent from my frickin iPad where adding proper punctuation is more work than it should be. Add your own apostrophes where iOS didn't do it for me.
#88
Jay
Jay
Sadly, you're not revealing anything new to me and the answer to this question did not get answered... at least not in the form I wanted it to.
Why can't Apple get their iPad to properly send out print jobs through the WIFI connection to a network computer now at the iPad 3 stage? And how is that people have created a chargeable App to provide this so called function?
So, are these people bullshitting me with this app's magical properties or is Apple short-changing me? Furthermore doesn't Apple approve Apps in their App store and get a commission out of Apps being sold? Intrigue, there is.
I call douchbaggery, right here and right now.
Oddly, I rarely print and fully plan to use it as you mentioned but sometimes, I need to send a print job to where I need to (such as printing out a report for someone else and generic paper for other people/departments). I don't need to be reminded every so often, oh yeah, I can't print, lawlz "Apple".
Why can't Apple get their iPad to properly send out print jobs through the WIFI connection to a network computer now at the iPad 3 stage? And how is that people have created a chargeable App to provide this so called function?
So, are these people bullshitting me with this app's magical properties or is Apple short-changing me? Furthermore doesn't Apple approve Apps in their App store and get a commission out of Apps being sold? Intrigue, there is.
I call douchbaggery, right here and right now.
Oddly, I rarely print and fully plan to use it as you mentioned but sometimes, I need to send a print job to where I need to (such as printing out a report for someone else and generic paper for other people/departments). I don't need to be reminded every so often, oh yeah, I can't print, lawlz "Apple".
#89
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
So I would guess my method didn't work?
#90
Jay
Jay
I'd rather not have to depend on 2 proxy services to perform this task of printing for me. One on one of my home PCs and the other on a work PC as this tablet will eventually replace my laptop.
#91
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
I like how Steinman's entire explanation is "Apple doesn't want to" when Android does it just fine.
#92
strawman
strawman
So you believe that apple should reserve three gigabytes of your iPads flash memory to store all the printer drivers of the printers people might use? Your iPad comes fully equipped to print to newer printers whose manufacturers have chosen to support the iPad. Why do you insist that apple should put in the effort to support your printer - and by extension everyone else's printer - rather than turning the table around and insist that printers support a common printing language?
Do you believe that your printers particular language is the one true printing language? Is this a religious belief you've gained through study and prayer? If not, why are you so hung up on installing a print bridge on your computer to translate between apples language and the printers language, or going out and buying a $100 air print compatible printer, or buying a $10 app that does it?
I mean, wow, this is really bothering you, isn't it? It's as though you believe apple is laughing at you and dangling your printer just out of reach, and that all they need to do is flip a bit and it would work, but they're not just to spite you.
They aren't going to write all those printer drivers. They aren't going to force everyone's iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch to carry all the possible printer drivers. They added printing to iOS devices and are telling manufacturers how to be compatible. They don't believe they need to do more. Those customers for whom this is an important issue will spend the money to get a new printer, or the time to install an appropriate bridge. Those who don't think it's important wont care. It seems you are in the third group, not important enough to make it work even though it's trivial, but important enough to whine about it.
There's a reason for this lack of support of your chosen printer. Its because your manufacturer chose not to include AirPrint compatibility, and apple chose not to spend engineering time writing a driver just for your model of printer. There are a multitude of ways to overcome this limitation, but yes, they rare effort and/or money on your part. I suppose you'll just have to decide how important printing is to you, then expend that amount of effort to get it working, or live without it.
Do you believe that your printers particular language is the one true printing language? Is this a religious belief you've gained through study and prayer? If not, why are you so hung up on installing a print bridge on your computer to translate between apples language and the printers language, or going out and buying a $100 air print compatible printer, or buying a $10 app that does it?
I mean, wow, this is really bothering you, isn't it? It's as though you believe apple is laughing at you and dangling your printer just out of reach, and that all they need to do is flip a bit and it would work, but they're not just to spite you.
They aren't going to write all those printer drivers. They aren't going to force everyone's iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch to carry all the possible printer drivers. They added printing to iOS devices and are telling manufacturers how to be compatible. They don't believe they need to do more. Those customers for whom this is an important issue will spend the money to get a new printer, or the time to install an appropriate bridge. Those who don't think it's important wont care. It seems you are in the third group, not important enough to make it work even though it's trivial, but important enough to whine about it.
There's a reason for this lack of support of your chosen printer. Its because your manufacturer chose not to include AirPrint compatibility, and apple chose not to spend engineering time writing a driver just for your model of printer. There are a multitude of ways to overcome this limitation, but yes, they rare effort and/or money on your part. I suppose you'll just have to decide how important printing is to you, then expend that amount of effort to get it working, or live without it.
#93
strawman
And yes, it's entirely because apple doesn't want to. In the same way they believe that blu ray isn't worth supporting, they believe printing is only worth marginally supporting. It seems their idea is that the iPad replaces paper for most uses.
strawman
Android doesn't do it just fine. Not until you install a Linux printer driver for your particular printer. It might have been easy for you depending on your printer, but it's not all roses on that end.I like how Steinman's entire explanation is "Apple doesn't want to" when Android does it just fine.
And yes, it's entirely because apple doesn't want to. In the same way they believe that blu ray isn't worth supporting, they believe printing is only worth marginally supporting. It seems their idea is that the iPad replaces paper for most uses.
#94
strawman
Still, they're getting closer and closer. It's obvious apple is moving their desktop operating system and their tablet operating system closer and closer together. Microsoft is doing something similar with windows eight, but in a much more conservative fashion.
strawman
I will be very surprised if you succeed in replacing your laptop with a tablet, much less the iPad or an android device. It does about seventy percent of what I use a laptop for, and I suspect for most people it would probably replace ninety five percent of what they use a computer for, but you strike me as a person who actually uses their computer for more than just email, browsing, and office applications, and if so you'll find it doesn't do many things that you laptop does.I'd rather not have to depend on 2 proxy services to perform this task of printing for me. One on one of my home PCs and the other on a work PC as this tablet will eventually replace my laptop.
Still, they're getting closer and closer. It's obvious apple is moving their desktop operating system and their tablet operating system closer and closer together. Microsoft is doing something similar with windows eight, but in a much more conservative fashion.
#95
strawman
strawman
In five years we'll look at today's tablets as mere toys...
#96
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
The Smart TV that I saw while browsing today did seem very "Star Trek". I smiled.
#97
MindDetective
MindDetective
Stienman, that what I said! 
#98
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I know it's already been said, but I'm going to say it again. Tablets are not meant to replace a laptop, or any full computer. Tablets fill a different purpose, and are not going to be able to fill every need that a laptop would.
#99
Bowielee
Bowielee
That's basically the gist of it. Tablets aren't intended to be all purpose for everything. Frankly, I can see exactly why they aren't in any hurry to natively support printers. Tablets are mainly meant to give you productivity functionality on the go and gaming to a lesser extent.
#100
PatrThom
PatrThom
We do not yet have a tablet in our household. But when we do, rather than replace any of our computers, it will most likely replace all the paper we used to waste...printing a recipe just to carry it 30 feet into the kitchen (rather than running back and forth), reading news/listings/weather, doing crossword puzzles/searches (or the equivalent), etc.
--Patrick
--Patrick
#101
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
This sentiment could get spread around a little more, don't you think? Video drivers, Automobile OBDs, ink cartridges, cell phone chargers (I hear the EU finally did something about this one!).Air print is apple saying, "look, this is stupid. We're not going to force our customers to load a new driver on every iOS device they own just so they can print to a new printer. Instead we're going to define a common language, and if you printer makers implement it then the iPad will print to it."
There are those times when it helps a little TOO much, aren't there?Sent from my frickin iPad where adding proper punctuation is more work than it should be. Add your own apostrophes where iOS didn't do it for me.
--Patrick
#102
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
So did the united states. With the exception of apple, all of the major phone manufacturers have adopted the micro usb as the standard.This sentiment could get spread around a little more, don't you think? Video drivers, Automobile OBDs, ink cartridges, cell phone chargers (I hear the EU finally did something about this one!).
--Patrick
#103
jwhouk
jwhouk
The problem I have with my iPod Touch (or "iFaux-ne") is the keyboard. Way too small, even for my relatively small fingers.
#104
strawman
Unfortunately we need to go the next step - we are currently writing drivers for each device/platform/os. So for each HP printer, there's a windows driver, an OS X driver, a linux driver, and even an iOS app. Not only that, but there isn't one HP driver for all their printers - each of their models has slightly different APIs that require a different driver. If the industry could get onboard with one printer API, then everyone could write to that same API and it would simply work, regardless of device, operating system, platform, or connection method.
There are some existing APIs many printers understand now, especially network printers, but the manufacturers (and consumers) demand more features than these APIs support, such as ink levels, scanning, faxing, etc, and to some degree printer manufacturers prefer to keep things incompatible so people have a hard time switching once they've invested in a particular printer company.
Unfortunately air print is not the answer. Not only is it bare bones, but Apple doesn't freely give the spec away. People have reverse engineered it a bit, but Apple is doing what it always does - controlling it tightly and limiting it to those they deem worthy. It gives a good consumer experience because it will just work since Apple demands so much of those that they officially support, but it's anti-competitive, which limits it significantly.
USB has done a lot in this regard for smaller devices, like keyboards, mice, audio headsets, and even webcams can follow the USB class for their device type and when they do they don't require drivers to run - you just plug them in and they work. There is a printer class, but it's limited, and wouldn't apply to network printers anyway.
strawman
We've already achieved the first level of interoperability, thanks in large part to Microsoft with the early versions of Windows. It used to be that every program had to write their own print driver, so autocad had their set of supported printers, and wordperfect had their own set of supported printers, etc. MS added a layer of translation so they could both write to the windows print API, and then the job of print drivers was foisted on the printer manufacturers. OS X has a similar printing API, and linux/unix has CUPS.This sentiment could get spread around a little more, don't you think? Video drivers, Automobile OBDs, ink cartridges, cell phone chargers (I hear the EU finally did something about this one!).
Unfortunately we need to go the next step - we are currently writing drivers for each device/platform/os. So for each HP printer, there's a windows driver, an OS X driver, a linux driver, and even an iOS app. Not only that, but there isn't one HP driver for all their printers - each of their models has slightly different APIs that require a different driver. If the industry could get onboard with one printer API, then everyone could write to that same API and it would simply work, regardless of device, operating system, platform, or connection method.
There are some existing APIs many printers understand now, especially network printers, but the manufacturers (and consumers) demand more features than these APIs support, such as ink levels, scanning, faxing, etc, and to some degree printer manufacturers prefer to keep things incompatible so people have a hard time switching once they've invested in a particular printer company.
Unfortunately air print is not the answer. Not only is it bare bones, but Apple doesn't freely give the spec away. People have reverse engineered it a bit, but Apple is doing what it always does - controlling it tightly and limiting it to those they deem worthy. It gives a good consumer experience because it will just work since Apple demands so much of those that they officially support, but it's anti-competitive, which limits it significantly.
USB has done a lot in this regard for smaller devices, like keyboards, mice, audio headsets, and even webcams can follow the USB class for their device type and when they do they don't require drivers to run - you just plug them in and they work. There is a printer class, but it's limited, and wouldn't apply to network printers anyway.