Export thread

Front page says it's dead in the House.

I'm hoping that, with his pet project quelled for now, Obama can get to working on the whole military and economy situations that actually need attention immediately rather than scrambling to fix something that's been broken for decades anyway and can wait until the bigger problems have been taken care of.

You do realize a huge number of bankruptcies are caused by absurd medical costs, right?

And all the Americans dying here every year because of the terrible health care system is more important than playing World Police.

Not that this bill is anything good, it doesn't go far enough. But it's better than a Republican "victory".

It needed to wait and now it's waiting. I think Obama was too concerned about keeping it as a campaign promise ASAP, and now he's wasted his first year in office on it.

If it's not "anything good", then why waste the time and money? I voted for Obama and I think he can do better. Maybe the next attempt will be something good enough that it doesn't need a % in Congress that makes the Democrats get whatever they want if they could just work together, and instead something decent that both parties would agree is a good move. I'd rather see the parties have to compromise and agree on what's best for America than just keep exchanging majorities between parties for who gets to have their fun with laws and taxpayer money.

Theres two camps that seem to pop up about this issue very often, at least from what I have seen (neither of these camps are meant to reflect anyone here, merely my observations from The Real Word: 'Merica):
1) It doesn't go far enough! Sure, it sucks and might actually make stuff worse or maybe it really won't do anything at all but let democrats say they did something and get them more votes which iz good cuz I like democrats! And maybe someday it will lead to a better bill but probably not but hey, VOTES and pandering to the public! Woo!
2) It goes WAY to far! It's a waste of taxpayer money and it only goes to show that Obama is a socialist! Go republicans! Now we can work on a better healthcare bill (but really, no we won't, we don't give a damn).

In the end it really didn't do much of anything from everything I have read, but it might have led to something better or it might have caused even worse financial problems for an already SERIOUSLY financially strained government.

Personally I'm thrilled to see it killed HOWEVER, I would, unlike the #2 camp, like to see a REAL healthcare reform bill that dealt with the serious issues with the healthcare companies, tort reform and all under a government that actually gave a damn about being fiscally responsible.

So I'm probably SOL.

I just hope "torte reform" isn't the magic bullet you think will solve all of our healthcare woes. That is only a very small part of the problems with our healthcare system.

No one thinks there is a magic bullet to fix anything, well no one with an IQ above 12. However, I do agree with those who say that it's both amazingly ignorant to think it's not part of the problem, which many of our representatives seem to think.

Espy said:

Personally I'm thrilled to see it killed HOWEVER, I would, unlike the #2 camp, like to see a REAL healthcare reform bill that dealt with the serious issues with the healthcare companies, tort reform and all under a government that actually gave a damn about being fiscally responsible.

Click to expand...

That's where I am.

We're in a bad place right now and need to get the basics straightened out first. Like I said, I hope the next attempt will be more sound-minded and something worth having.

Espy said:

No one thinks there is a magic bullet to fix anything, well no one with an IQ above 12. However, I do agree with those who say that it's both amazingly ignorant to think it's not part of the problem, which many of our representatives seem to think.

Click to expand...

Can you name one? I am genuinely curious, as I've never heard anyone say so.

Uh... every representative who didn't think it should be in this current healthcare bill?

Here's what Howard Dean, not a terribly conservative man as you well know said about congress and this issue:

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, a medical doctor who served as governor of Vermont, said at a town hall meeting on Tuesday night that Democrats in Congress did not include tort reform in the health care bill because they were fearful of “taking on” the trial lawyers.

“This is the answer from a doctor and a politician,” said Dean. “Here is why tort reform is not in the bill. When you go to pass a really enormous bill like that the more stuff you put in, the more enemies you make, right? And the reason why tort reform is not in the bill is because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers in addition to everybody else they were taking on, and that is the plain and simple truth. Now, that’s the truth.”

Click to expand...

No matter what it wasn't something they seemed to want implement. Thats enough for me to say they aren't terribly interested in this issue and it probably, like lots of lobbying does, has something to do with money.

But no one said "torte reform isn't needed". I just want to be clear here.

I see their inaction and lack of interest in passing any real reform on the issue as being against you and you see it differently. Thats fair, we can just agree to disagree, I don't feel like arguing about it really, we both can probably agree that it is something that would be nice to see worked on in a fair way. Corruption in any process is a bad thing whether it's lobbying by lawyers or companies.

Krisken said:

But no one said "torte reform isn't needed". I just want to be clear here.

Click to expand...

Exactly. The quote simply says that they didn't think they could take on the Trial Lawyer lobby and win.

I think this bill is at least a getting the foot in the door thing that will get us one step closer to Universal Health Care.

Overall, I'd count this bill as a loss and thus pretty much a wasted year. Since the next president will most likely be a republican, maybe the one after that can use this foot in the door to actually get something decent in.

Seraphyn said:

and thus pretty much a wasted year.

Click to expand...

This.

escushion;332766][QUOTE=Seraphyn said:

and thus pretty much a wasted year.

Click to expand...

This.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. Obama could have work on trying to get more jobs and military issue with the "filibuster proof" majority, but he wasted on broken Healthcare plan. Healthcare is sooooooooo broken on different level it is not even funny. It would take YEARS to fix it (at least the speed of our government)
No use to cry over spilled milk. Time to look forward.

Seraphyn said:

Since the next president will most likely be a republican, maybe the one after that can use this foot in the door to actually get something decent in.

Click to expand...

ahahhaaaahahahhahahahhahaha
ah
ahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhaahhahaha
hahahahahhahahahahahahhhhhhah'aha
ahahahahahahahahhahahahha
hahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahhaahahhahahhahhahaa
hahahahaha
ahahhhahahahhahhhahaha

Now with the Supreme Court Decision that translates as "Corporate Money = Free Speech," there will never be any meaningful change. Billions will be spent on lies and slander, just like this year, but the dollar amounts will be even greater. And those Billions of Dollars will be reflected in YOUR medical bills.

sixpackshaker said:

Now with the Supreme Court Decision that translates as "Corporate Money = Free Speech," there will never be any meaningful change. Billions will be spent on lies and slander, just like this year, but the dollar amounts will be even greater. And those Billions of Dollars will be reflected in YOUR medical bills.

Click to expand...

Unless the major networks decide to stop running political adds all together when they see how much their bottoms lines have fallen out by having to accommodate ALL political ads at reduced rates. Considering how NBC is doing right now, I imagine they would be the first to do it if it's going to happen.

I don't think Big Pharma's position ads are treated the same way as a candidate's political ads.

escushion;332766][QUOTE=Seraphyn said:

and thus pretty much a wasted year.

Click to expand...

This.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why people keep saying this, especially when he has kept an impressive number of his promises. Go here for a list of things he has done. Some biggies include-
Establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights
Expand Loan Programs for Small Businesses
Expand eligibility for SCHIP ( child healthcare program)
Expand funding funding to train primary care proficers
Assure the Veterens Administration budget is assigned as must pass legislation
Create a National Infrastructure Protection Plan
Stand down nuclear forces to be reduced under Moscow Treaty
Initiate Grant program for initiating law enforcement to deter cyber crimes
Grant Americans unrestricted rights to visit family in Cuba and send money
Restore funding to anti-gang initiatives
Release Presidential Records
Increase funding for National Parks and Forests
Expand hate crime act to include gender
Strengthen laws to prevent gender pay discrimination
Ban Lobbyist gifts to executive employees
New penalties for mortgage fraud
Create a Green Vet initiative to promote environmental jobs for Veterans
Doubled funding for research on clean fuels
Reverse restrictions on Stem Cell Research

Now, whether you agree with these things or not, to say this was "pretty much a wasted year." is extremely shortsighted.

Okay, that's true. But the bill was his major focus of the year and something worthwhile could have taken that time and energy.

It's a 'wasted year' because the health care reform was pretty much the one big issue of that year. Of course shit still gets done, but I don't think a lot of people voted Obama for "New penalties for mortgage fraud". That's what I'm trying to say by wasting a year. It was the big focal point and it pretty much tanked.

I'm with Krisken. I didn't vote for Obama because of the healthcare thing. I am very pleased with his progress on the issues I actually cared about during the election. I don't think it was a wasted year.

Hopefully in another few months, you'll be able to add, "made more headway avoiding the Iranian nuke problem than any president since 1979". *crosses fingers*

Though I'm still not sure why people think that an incremental health care bill is a bad thing. 1964 Civil Rights Act probably wouldn't have passed without the previous 5 civil rights acts, including the 1875 one upon which it was based that was signed into law, but ruled unconstitutional.

TeKeo said:

Hopefully in another few months, you'll be able to add, "made more headway avoiding the Iranian nuke problem than any president since 1979". *crosses fingers*

Though I'm still not sure why people think that an incremental health care bill is a bad thing. 1964 Civil Rights Act probably wouldn't have passed without the previous 5 civil rights acts, including the 1875 one upon which it was based that was signed into law, but ruled unconstitutional.

Click to expand...

True, that. Read 'Master of the Senate' for an explanation of how even an utterly emasculated piece of legislation can have a tremendous impact later down the line.