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So, all this talk about the future of Halforum makes me want to contribute in some way. Ed mentioned how nothing really got done with the home page after he requested somebody to submit content. To be honest, I didn't really pay much attention to it: I am probably like many others in that I only really come here for the forum.

But I just had a read through Gas Bandit Bitches, and it made me wonder why I can't do that. I don't want to opine on various things from my day and week, because that appears to be what Gas is doing with his 'column,' and nobody wants too many cooks in the same kitchen.

I've been considering other small projects I've had in the back of my mind. I've been trying to write on a regular basis, part in the hope that something decent will come out of it, and partly to form the habit. I've had two or three settings for a sort of adventure novel/anthology/series in my head, and a basic story which I might like to explore. So I was thinking maybe a serialized-style adventure story might be something I could contribute. But I was also wondering if anybody else wanted to collaborate with me on it. I suppose I could do it by myself, but I don't really have a lot of confidence to be writing for an actual audience, and pulling somebody (or some people) into it with me might help me with my own nerves, as well as add to the idea and take it places I never imagined or intended.

Any thoughts? I'll just give a quick summary of the three settings I've been considering, to see if anybody is interested:

1) A setting that might best be described as diesel-punk: WWI-WWII era technology (pre-atom bomb), with a frontier-ish theme. It takes place in a chain of islands, recently colonized by immigrants from a Europe-like 'old land.' Settled mostly independently, the islands are seeing much outside influence when colonialism becomes the mentality on the father continent. Beginning mostly as a story of intrigue and espionage, piracy and adventure, not excluding inter-island politics, alliances and treaties ... there's always the specter of war looming behind the curtains.

2) Another fronteir-ish setting. A mars-like planet in another solar system colonized by several settler ships. Several ships land and carve out habitable spaces on the planet while they try to terraform the rest of the world. Other ships remain in orbit and in other places in the solar system, collecting raw materials to terraform the planet (ice, for example, to add oceans to the dry world). Planetside, the people begin to worry that some calamity has befallen the scientists in space, or believe that they have been forgotten. Meanwhile, the aristocracy (Scientists charged with terraforming the world from teh ground) try to keep control for the good of the people.

3) A world inspired by the harsh winters where I live, and a conversation I had on /tg/ on 4chan. It's a frozen planet where people and society have carved out an existence in the bedrock around volcanoes, geysers, and other geothermal phenomenon. Much of the world is ocean: frozen over, but with ever-shifting ice-floes. As with the terraformed planet setting, the isolation of the various settlements would be a major theme. The technology would be quite low: near a medieval level. The world would be divided into city-states, each centered around the geothermal phenomenon that allows them to exist. The story and plot would draw much inspiration from greece's history, and medieval stories, when it comes to inter-city-state dealings, wars, and interaction. I would not be opposed to adding fantasy elements to this one, after all: the society I am describing is essentially dwarvish.

Let me know what anybody thinks, even if you aren't interested in collaborating yourself.

And Dave ... I hope it's okay that I posted this without really running it by you or anything. I figured it wouldn't be a problem, but now that I have it all typed out I begin to wonder if I've overstepped myself.

I love sci-fi so normally I'd be all over idea number two, but idea one intrigues me greatly.

Also, in general, I think this is a cool idea. I hope you pursue this in one way or another and I will look forward to reading it. I'd played around with doing something like that (episodic stories) but never really got it off the ground. I occasionally write but I'm terrible at keeping up with it, especially lately with my increasingly busy schedule.

I'm also in support of this. I'd love to contribute with stories, with my personal choice being that we go with the first idea.

Oh noes, communism... :aaahhh:

Also, tl;dr...

If you're cool with the fact that I'm not the go-to guy for anything technical (if any of you are the type to say 'argh they didn't invent the hay baler until the whenever years, how is hay baled in this fantasy setting', count me out) then I'd be very interested in potential collaboration assuming this idea flies with the upper management of HF and you decide to take me on as a teammate out of the crowds who are also no doubt interested. I'm not the worlds most awesome writer ever, but I like to think I'm improving and won't make anyone's eyes bleed with whatever tasks you delegate to me. My credentials include five unpublished novels of lengths between 80-140k (I did two more in a series of, like, twelve books, but 350k words in I just gave up and since I never finished the series I don't count them). Right now I'm working on what will be my sixth novel when I finish it, but I have more than enough time for collaboration if you pick me. I also kept up a 2000 words/day ongoing project at an old forum I used to go to, and it was pretty popular, for what it's worth.

Writing samples can be provided if necessary to prove I'm capable, but it'd probably be something I wrote specifically as a sample because I'm very paranoid about my ideas getting stolen over the interwebs.

It should also be really clear that I have no idea what you mean by 'collaboration' (would your partner(s) be an idea guy, a co-writer guy, an edit guy, etc) and don't want to overstep my bounds by assuming anything. This is your idea, and your show. I'm just offering my aid should you require it, no matter what aid you need.

I've almost finished the first episode of an animated web series I’m working on called "Half Full". I started developing the thing 5 years ago, I didn't pinch the name from Half Pixel/Half Forum or anything crazy like that.

...yeah I’ve been lurking for a long time now.. Since the image forums I think *walks backwards into the shadows*

Stop. Collaborate and Listen... Ice Ice Baby.

I've been trying to work on a comic for the sight and have a lot of character designs down but am running into a problem with time. I think the baby may still be too young for me to commit myself to a webcomic.

I can ,however, provide articles, rants, etc.

I'd be more than happy to, I dunno, post my recipes for things as I bake/cook them or review the random shit that my friends tell me about.

Chazwozel said:

Stop. Collaborate and Listen... Ice Ice Baby.

Click to expand...

Dammit.

In my defense, it was late.

And to those who wonder what collaborating would mean, it could mean one of several things. First and foremost, would be brainstorming, with regards to the precise direction the plot goes, as well as perhaps adding your own thoughts to the setting in general. I envision setting number one as a setting where boats never gained dominance because airships are more practical in the island chain. But I could be talked out of it.

The other thing I was thinking, was possibly having two or three writers, each with their own storyline taking place in the same setting, intersecting here and there, but largely separate, showing the broad scope of the world. If at all possible, I think it would be great for there to be a few characters, each on a different side (and with a different perspective) on the conflict. (Again, operating assuming that setting 1 flies)

And LittleSin ... I could definitely get on board with a cooking blog. Cooking and eating are two things I love to do. I'd definitely read, and maybe even contribute, if such things were needed!

LittleSin said:

I'd be more than happy to, I dunno, post my recipes for things as I bake/cook them or review the random poop that my friends tell me about.

Click to expand...

OH! Foodie stuff, that would be pretty fun!

Rob King said:

Chazwozel said:

Stop. Collaborate and Listen... Ice Ice Baby.

Click to expand...

Dammit.

In my defense, it was late.

And to those who wonder what collaborating would mean, it could mean one of several things. First and foremost, would be brainstorming, with regards to the precise direction the plot goes, as well as perhaps adding your own thoughts to the setting in general. I envision setting number one as a setting where boats never gained dominance because airships are more practical in the island chain. But I could be talked out of it.

The other thing I was thinking, was possibly having two or three writers, each with their own storyline taking place in the same setting, intersecting here and there, but largely separate, showing the broad scope of the world. If at all possible, I think it would be great for there to be a few characters, each on a different side (and with a different perspective) on the conflict. (Again, operating assuming that setting 1 flies)

And LittleSin ... I could definitely get on board with a cooking blog. Cooking and eating are two things I love to do. I'd definitely read, and maybe even contribute, if such things were needed!

Click to expand...

As I said before, I'd love to contribute. I've been wanting to get back into writing and this would be a wonderful opportunity. When you get to brainstorming, I'll be sure to throw in my own thoughts.

Rob King said:

Chazwozel said:

Stop. Collaborate and Listen... Ice Ice Baby.

Click to expand...

Dammit.

In my defense, it was late.

And to those who wonder what collaborating would mean, it could mean one of several things. First and foremost, would be brainstorming, with regards to the precise direction the plot goes, as well as perhaps adding your own thoughts to the setting in general. I envision setting number one as a setting where boats never gained dominance because airships are more practical in the island chain. But I could be talked out of it.

The other thing I was thinking, was possibly having two or three writers, each with their own storyline taking place in the same setting, intersecting here and there, but largely separate, showing the broad scope of the world. If at all possible, I think it would be great for there to be a few characters, each on a different side (and with a different perspective) on the conflict. (Again, operating assuming that setting 1 flies)

And LittleSin ... I could definitely get on board with a cooking blog. Cooking and eating are two things I love to do. I'd definitely read, and maybe even contribute, if such things were needed!

Click to expand...

Two things:

First, I don't think that the 'few boats' thing would be good, if only because (I know it's fiction, but) it's logically ridiculous. I will admit now, however, I am one of those people. Boats are older and cheaper than flight, and I just don't believe any society would take to the skies before having a decent mastery of moving people across water. Not to mention a society that movies between islands all the time? Boats can fit more people for less cost (not just financial; resource-wise as well). Also, boats are more awesome than anything that flies anyways. And it's not that I'm opposed to airships or what have you, they're cool and I wouldn't be against their utilization, but... moreso than boats? I'd raise an eyebrow.

Second, I like the idea of multiple (not too many, the 'two or three' is a good number) doing their own stories in the same 'world'. This to me is better than having multiple writers shaping the same story because, I imagine, the tone shift would go back and forth, or there would be in-fighting as to the progression. Multiple stories allows for different tones and focuses, while creating stories based on the same set of 'rules' for the world. Occasionally, if the authors wished, I could see situations where the stories met up and had small collaborative pieces, which might be neat.

Garbledina said:

First, I don't think that the 'few boats' thing would be good, if only because (I know it's fiction, but) it's logically ridiculous. I will admit now, however, I am one of those people. Boats are older and cheaper than flight, and I just don't believe any society would take to the skies before having a decent mastery of moving people across water. Not to mention a society that movies between islands all the time? Boats can fit more people for less cost (not just financial; resource-wise as well). Also, boats are more awesome than anything that flies anyways. And it's not that I'm opposed to airships or what have you, they're cool and I wouldn't be against their utilization, but... moreso than boats? I'd raise an eyebrow.

Click to expand...

I'll admit that the airship thing is mostly just my own fancy. I'm not 100% married to the idea of airships, but I was wondering if there were some logic one could apply that would make airships more reasonable. The only situation that I could come up with is that there are boats, but the island chain is difficult to navigate on the sea. Undersea ridges and coral reefs that make boat travel unreliable at best, dangerous at worst, mean that this new world is more invested in the airship concept than the old europe-esque nations. Perhaps there are a few dozen sea-lanes where boats are easier to use, but their relative uselessness in other regions has pushed the development of the airship.

But I could just be grasping at straws at this point.

Heaven and FilmFanatic ... I have your names. Expect to hear from me in the coming days/weeks. Anyone else interested can post here or pm me. Now, I haven't talked to Dave, and it looks like the planned overhaul of the homepage means we won't be able to host it there, but perhaps that's okay. I'll have a look at some other options.

Hey don't let me rain on your parade man! If you have some explanation (virtually un-navigable sea lanes, as you said) then I'd be open to it. I'm just one of those people who is fussy enough to point out logic flaws like that.

Even without any reasoning, it is your thing, so go crazy!

Rob King said:

Chazwozel said:

Stop. Collaborate and Listen... Ice Ice Baby.

Click to expand...

Dammit.

In my defense, it was late.

And to those who wonder what collaborating would mean, it could mean one of several things. First and foremost, would be brainstorming, with regards to the precise direction the plot goes, as well as perhaps adding your own thoughts to the setting in general. I envision setting number one as a setting where boats never gained dominance because airships are more practical in the island chain. But I could be talked out of it.

The other thing I was thinking, was possibly having two or three writers, each with their own storyline taking place in the same setting, intersecting here and there, but largely separate, showing the broad scope of the world. If at all possible, I think it would be great for there to be a few characters, each on a different side (and with a different perspective) on the conflict. (Again, operating assuming that setting 1 flies)

And LittleSin ... I could definitely get on board with a cooking blog. Cooking and eating are two things I love to do. I'd definitely read, and maybe even contribute, if such things were needed!

Click to expand...

Rob! You are in Newfoundland! You shall be my forum guinea pig!...that is if you are in the St.John's/Paradise area.

It's pretty sociocentric to think there's no reason why a culture couldn't evolve flight before seafaring - or couldn't ifnd it more convenient.
How about a world with different physical constants? Chaning the air pressure and gravity about a bit can make flight far easier to accomplish. Or, to return to a perfectly normal world, it's a cultural that's started existence far, far away from the sea? Plenty of quite advanced cultures never evolved any sort of ships beyond canoes. A third perfectly viable option would be some sort of religious/cultural taboo. Perhaps sailing on water is taunting the demons that live under the surface. Perhaps the Gods dwell under the ocean. There're cultures evolved right next to mountain ranges that never went up there because the peaks were the Gods' domain; this isn't far-fetched at all.
How about simply a location where wood is relatively sparse; or the only types of wood available are too hard/brittle/whatnot to carve and use decently? Most other tools can be made from stone or steel; making a simple boat out of one of these is far more difficult (yes, a steel hull will float...But not as easily as a wooden one. Stone...No.)
Natural dangers? Some sort of sea-creature that preys on something similar to ships; causing it to be quite dangerous to sail. Heck, as already mentioned - simply difficult-to-navigate waters.

For aerial transportation to be more common than seafaring, you have to do two things: make seafaring less interesting to a developping culture (pick pretty much any of the above reasons); and make flight easier or more preferable. For example, some sort of indigenous creature with a flight method that ca nbe easily mimicked (Humans have been quite literally trying to build flying machines based on birds since the ancient Greeks; unfortunately, birds fly in a manner not suited for human bodies. Creatures using some sort of gas blatter to float would "naturally" lead to people trying hot air balloons or H2 balloons earlier on in their cultural development. This isn't impossible - many fish use air pockets to float, after all). Very favourable winds could help make flight easier. Access to tissues that're very well)suited to making kites/gas balloons/whatever (certain types of leather come to mind)could help as well. Perhaps even the religious reasoning again - like Gothic cathedrals, always trying to build higher and further up to be closer to God, there could be a religious base for trying to fly to get closer to (the) God(s).

Ideally, you'd have a combination of some factors. Demons/devils live under the sea, and possibly under land - so seafaring is almost evil, is taunting them, is inviting disaster. At the same time, Gods and angels live high up, and striving to reach the skies is a good and honest thing that everyone should try to do. This gives you a strong cultural reason. The reason this culture developped this fright of the sea is because the first to attempt exploring the seas never came back - perhaps there are just some dangerous reefs out there, perhaps more, who knows?

I got the idea that the society was advanced enough to be beyond mythological motivations, and that they'd lived on the islands for their history, so boats (whether big or small) would've been the earliest form of inter-island movement. But of course I don't have a ton of information so I could be wrong, and also, at the very least that offers an explanation so I wouldn't be nitpicky.

Re: Boats

My roleplaying table created a setting where magical calamity (possibly scientifically explainable, as Clarke has mentioned) had turned the world into large landmasses floating in the air, the atmosphere mostly breathable, if you tried to descend to 'dry land' temperatures would become unbearable, atmosphere would be thicker and probably the creatures of the deep would devour you. Travelling between these landmasses was made possible by a material mined from said landmasses that once heated properly would propel up in the air, thus allowing ships to float. Could something like this work in your setting?

-- Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:23 am --

TDK1987 said:

I've almost finished the first episode of an animated web series I’m working on called "Half Full". I started developing the thing 5 years ago, I didn't pinch the name from Half Pixel/Half Forum or anything crazy like that.

...yeah I’ve been lurking for a long time now.. Since the image forums I think *walks backwards into the shadows*

Click to expand...

Looking forward to it!

Bubble181 said:

It's pretty sociocentric to think there's no reason why a culture couldn't evolve flight before seafaring - or couldn't ifnd it more convenient.
How about a world with different physical constants? Chaning the air pressure and gravity about a bit can make flight far easier to accomplish. Or, to return to a perfectly normal world, it's a cultural that's started existence far, far away from the sea? Plenty of quite advanced cultures never evolved any sort of ships beyond canoes. A third perfectly viable option would be some sort of religious/cultural taboo. Perhaps sailing on water is taunting the demons that live under the surface. Perhaps the Gods dwell under the ocean. There're cultures evolved right next to mountain ranges that never went up there because the peaks were the Gods' domain; this isn't far-fetched at all.
How about simply a location where wood is relatively sparse; or the only types of wood available are too hard/brittle/whatnot to carve and use decently? Most other tools can be made from stone or steel; making a simple boat out of one of these is far more difficult (yes, a steel hull will float...But not as easily as a wooden one. Stone...No.)
Natural dangers? Some sort of sea-creature that preys on something similar to ships; causing it to be quite dangerous to sail. Heck, as already mentioned - simply difficult-to-navigate waters.

Click to expand...

Or nice and simply, there aren't enough good docking locations? Perhaps the islands are geographically extreme, eg. Very shallow beaches so any deep hulled boats (ie. the sorts of boats that could cover the open water between islands) can't get near enough to the shore, say the beaches are a few miles deep? Or the opposite, and the islands are all surrounded by high cliffs, perhaps so high they invoke insanity just to look at them (been done? :tongue: ), so only one or two of the islands have suitable harbours, making boats rare (people from the other islands are always surprised to see them, like people from a landlocked area who've never seen the sea before).

LittleSin said:

Rob! You are in Newfoundland! You shall be my forum guinea pig!...that is if you are in the St.John's/Paradise area.

Click to expand...

I am indeed in the St. John's area. Robokommodo (he lurks a lot more than posts) is also in the area. I can't speak for him, but I'd love to be a guinea pig. Well ... for your your food. Not for things like Shego's male-genocide program.

I'm also totally serious about a food blog. If you're interested, I can definitely help, IRL, as well as online. Maybe I'll PM you about that too. Or perhaps a thread about the possibility might also not go astray. Because, really, if you're cooking meals anyways, a cooking blog is probably not that difficult to put together*. Start a blog, theme it to match Halforum, call it Halfkitchen or somesuch, put links between both pages, and bam: instant content.


-----
* - I might have watched Julie & Julia this week ...

Mr_Chaz said:

Bubble181 said:

It's pretty sociocentric to think there's no reason why a culture couldn't evolve flight before seafaring - or couldn't ifnd it more convenient.
How about a world with different physical constants? Chaning the air pressure and gravity about a bit can make flight far easier to accomplish. Or, to return to a perfectly normal world, it's a cultural that's started existence far, far away from the sea? Plenty of quite advanced cultures never evolved any sort of ships beyond canoes. A third perfectly viable option would be some sort of religious/cultural taboo. Perhaps sailing on water is taunting the demons that live under the surface. Perhaps the Gods dwell under the ocean. There're cultures evolved right next to mountain ranges that never went up there because the peaks were the Gods' domain; this isn't far-fetched at all.
How about simply a location where wood is relatively sparse; or the only types of wood available are too hard/brittle/whatnot to carve and use decently? Most other tools can be made from stone or steel; making a simple boat out of one of these is far more difficult (yes, a steel hull will float...But not as easily as a wooden one. Stone...No.)
Natural dangers? Some sort of sea-creature that preys on something similar to ships; causing it to be quite dangerous to sail. Heck, as already mentioned - simply difficult-to-navigate waters.

Click to expand...

Or nice and simply, there aren't enough good docking locations? Perhaps the islands are geographically extreme, eg. Very shallow beaches so any deep hulled boats (ie. the sorts of boats that could cover the open water between islands) can't get near enough to the shore, say the beaches are a few miles deep? Or the opposite, and the islands are all surrounded by high cliffs, perhaps so high they invoke insanity just to look at them (been done? :tongue: ), so only one or two of the islands have suitable harbours, making boats rare (people from the other islands are always surprised to see them, like people from a landlocked area who've never seen the sea before).

Click to expand...

I'd also say that the best explanation of flight before sea travel would be poor docking conditions or poor sea conditions.

Though, in regards to Bubble181's talk of cultural reasons, maybe there is a religion on the islands that has their God as existing in the depths of the sea. Thus, while not everyone might believe in this religion, those who do strive to keep to the skies as not to disturb their God.

filmfanatic said:

I'd also say that the best explanation of flight before sea travel would be poor docking conditions or poor sea conditions.

Though, in regards to Bubble181's talk of cultural reasons, maybe there is a religion on the islands that has their God as existing in the depths of the sea. Thus, while not everyone might believe in this religion, those who do strive to keep to the skies as not to disturb their God.

Click to expand...

After some consideration, I think it's going to end up being that boats did evolve first, but upon arriving in the new world, it was discovered that the sea is too brutal and unpredictable for rampant boat use. Sea lanes are quite set between the islands, and occasionally unnavigable anyhow. That could also explain why the islands were able to be settled before the old-worlders were that interested in going colonial. They got there, saw that their boats were largely useless, and wrote it off. When the settlers made advances in airship technology, they gave it a second look, and each began a campaign to woo the settlers under their respective flags.

So in the end, air travel is more expensive, but more reliable and versatile (not so bound to specific lanes). So in the end it'll probably be an even mix between large boats and smaller airships.

I was also imagining a conversation earlier today between someone who wanted to sail in a boat, vs. one who travels by airship. The logic of the airship-man was something along the lines of "If something goes wrong in an airship, you have the entire fall to the ocean to sort things out and make them right. If you're on a boat, you're most of the way to the grave to start with."

Following this train of thought, I also considered that more expensive boats might have backup balloons on board, in case of some calamity where sailing becomes impossible.

Rob King said:

After some consideration, I think it's going to end up being that boats did evolve first, but upon arriving in the new world, it was discovered that the sea is too brutal and unpredictable for rampant boat use. Sea lanes are quite set between the islands, and occasionally unnavigable anyhow. That could also explain why the islands were able to be settled before the old-worlders were that interested in going colonial. They got there, saw that their boats were largely useless, and wrote it off. When the settlers made advances in airship technology, they gave it a second look, and each began a campaign to woo the settlers under their respective flags.

So in the end, air travel is more expensive, but more reliable and versatile (not so bound to specific lanes). So in the end it'll probably be an even mix between large boats and smaller airships.

I was also imagining a conversation earlier today between someone who wanted to sail in a boat, vs. one who travels by airship. The logic of the airship-man was something along the lines of "If something goes wrong in an airship, you have the entire fall to the ocean to sort things out and make them right. If you're on a boat, you're most of the way to the grave to start with."

Following this train of thought, I also considered that more expensive boats might have backup balloons on board, in case of some calamity where sailing becomes impossible.

Click to expand...

That all sounds good. It covers how ships can be used, but air travel is also prevalent to overcome the dangers of sea travel.