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Children Who Get Spanked Have Lower IQs

What a bunch of complete bullshit! I was spanked when I was a kid, and I was always one of the top kids in my class academically.

\"The article\" said:

By using hitting rather than words or other means of discipline, parents could be depriving kids of learning opportunities.

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Sure, if all your parents do is beat you for no reason. But my parents always made sure to tell me why I was spanked and why I deserved it, as most parents who spank for purely disciplinary reasons do. And despite what a lot of these new age hippie parents think: yes, there IS a difference between occasionally spanking your kids and BEATING your kids!

Disciplining your child is not beating your child.

People who don't spank don't understand the difference.

People who abuse don't understand the difference.

Yeah, people have been gunning for the spankers for years.



Hmm. That sounds fantastically dirty.

I'm going to try like hell to never have to do that, but I don't think a few here and there would damage a child in a loving, stable home.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

Hm, I was beat pretty regularly growing up. Not like fists or anything, but raised by a Hispanic Catholic family I was spanked very often for the slightest things.

My IQ scores were through the roof. *shrug*

Imagine how high they would have been if you weren't spanked! OMG!

Shegokigo said:

Hm, I was beat pretty regularly growing up. Not like fists or anything, but raised by a Hispanic Catholic family I was spanked very often for the slightest things.

My IQ scores were through the roof. *shrug*

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Spanked regularly for being bad. I would run in terror if I did something wrong and my Dad went for the belt.

I'd post all my degrees and awards, but I don't want to brag.

I was spanked once and I hella deserved it.

That said, given my grades in math and science in school, that must of knocked a hundred IQ points out of my head.

Did very well in Artsy stuff though.

I was spanked off and on. Most of the time for reason, sometimes because my mom was in a mood.

What's scary is that the page Chaz posted is right. I see it all the time in the classes I sub for. These kids aren't being disciplined at home, so they come to school with this over-exaggerated sense of entitlement. I just keep thinking to myself, "Who the hell do you think you are, kid?" If I spoke to my parents the way these kids talk to adults now, I would have gotten that "four-across-the-eyes" treatment. And almost makes me sad to think this, but I truely hope that life kicks these kids asses when they graduate just so they get some of the common sense that their parents failed to teach them.

I was spanked as a kid an I have always done extremely well in school.

1) The study does not prove a causal link, merely that there's a relationship, and there is a possibility that it's causal
2) The difference in IQ between spanked vs not spanked? 2-4 IQ points. That's it.

But we have to accept the reality that a child's experiences will shape how their brain handles problems, and if a child has to devote a portion of their problem solving ability to "how do I best avoid being hit" then those pathways that will be explored for each problem they see, including IQ test problems.

The IQ test does not cater to fight or flight survival reflexes, so those who have spent time learning and understanding how to avoid bad situations with their parents are going to do a little worse than others.

Still, 2-4 points is nothing to care about.

I hope I don't have to punish my kids physically, and so far we haven't needed to, but if they exhibit behaviors which we determine over time will worsen without such correction, we're not going to worry about 2-4 points of IQ, we're going to worry about how they'll deal with life if they don't learn what they need to.

-Adam

The main argument I've encountered in my Educational Psychology reading is that spanking falls under the category of punishment, not reinforcement. And reinforcement has been known to produce desirable behaviors more affectively because it is preemptive to bad behavior and focuses on reward, whereas punishment takes place after the bad behavior and often focuses on something unpleasant.

Just like steinman said, kids who are punished more than reinforced might start focusing more on how to avoid punishment than on what is best for them in the end and why.

That said, I think every kid needs to learn that negative actions have similar consequences.

Study that shows statistical association between spankings and IQ debunked by forum full of geniuses with anecdotal evidence. Full report tonight at 11.

Ravenpoe said:

Study that shows statistical association between spankings and IQ debunked by forum full of geniuses with anecdotal evidence. Full report tonight at 11.

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-Adam

Cajungal said:

The main argument I've encountered in my Educational Psychology reading is that spanking falls under the category of punishment, not reinforcement. And reinforcement has been known to produce desirable behaviors more affectively because it is preemptive to bad behavior and focuses on reward, whereas punishment takes place after the bad behavior and often focuses on something unpleasant.

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I don't know how I feel about including incentives into the mindset of a human being who will eventually be living in the real world. Truth is: most of the time the only incentive for living like a functional human being, is the pleasure of being a functional human being.

As for my own experience, I was spanked as a child maybe ... five or six times. Each time by my mother, and each time with a promise that my father would finish the job when he got home if I continued to misbehave. Once was always enough. And I won't relate myself to the study by assuring you all that I'm brilliant. But I would hope that in our interactions on the forum, you would at least find me functional.

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

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I get spanked all the time.

LittleSin;262869][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

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I get spanked all the time.





[/QUOTE]

That's not quite what I meant, but I am interested nonetheless!

LittleSin;262869][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

I get spanked all the time.





[/QUOTE]

My wife beats me all the time.









Mostly at gin rummy, but she's good at other card games too.

-Adam

Many of these studies make the same mistake: they confuse cause and result.

Kids with ADHD may get spanked more. Their IQ is lower compared to other kids, in general.

Just one example, but basically: I'd say it's generally accepted that kids with a lower IQ are more prone to pulling bad shit and pranks than kids with a higher IQ.

The evidence for this can be seen in nearly every school you go to: in my school, there was not a single fight over the course of 3 years and my school only had higher education levels. My friend's school was a technical school (mechanics, electronics, wood working) and there were daily fights. Same could be seen in every other school: the lower the IQ of the students, the more fights, more expulsions, etc.

So who do you think has a better chance of getting spanked? Exactly. There's a link all right, just the opposite of what has been said.

bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

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To be fair, the parent-child relationship isn't built on equality like the modern marriage is.

I spank every now and then...


whoops wrong thread

Well no shit. If they were smarter they wouldn't get spanked.





Edit: Actually on a more serious note. I'd like to know the circumstances of the spankings delivered, how they were delivered and whether or not the child was informed as to why he was spanked and comforted afterwards. As has been said. There is a right way to spank and a wrong way to spank.

Rob King;262878][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

To be fair, the parent-child relationship isn't built on equality like the modern marriage is.[/QUOTE]

I also find it interesting to replace "kids" with "employees" or "servants" sometimes too.

bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

Ugh, that reminds me of some trolls that troubled a forum I used to frequent. They claimed that corporal punishment was a necessary and healthy way for a husband to discipline his wife. There were several threads before the admins banned them, but they all went the same way. Trolls would start thread on marital spanking. Admins would warn that sexual discussions were only allowed in the gender specific sub-forums (it was a Christian forum, and they had Men Only and Women Only sub-forums), and that no links were allowed to sexually explicit websites. Trolls would say "we promise, there's nothing sexual about it". Thread would proceed for a page or two, then the trolls would start telling stories of how spanking led to sex and posting links to sites complete with explicit pictures.

It was sometimes hard to tell the trolls from the wackos on that board. There was the guy who claimed to be a werewolf, and to be connected to a whole underground movement of Christian werewolves, vampires, and other strange sub-cultures. There was the poster who was obsessed that the whole world was spelling Yahweh wrong, and tried to turn every thread towards discussion of his spelling, and his only cited source was a poorly written Wikipedia article (which itself didn't cite any information). It was a weird place at times.

bhamv3;262899][quote=Rob King;262878][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

To be fair, the parent-child relationship isn't built on equality like the modern marriage is.[/QUOTE]

I also find it interesting to replace "kids" with "employees" or "servants" sometimes too.[/QUOTE]

Again, they are different situations. They aren't relationships built on instilling cultural norms into undeveloped humans who would otherwise not have the necessary education.

They're also not built on familial love.

Rob King;262902][quote=bhamv3;262899][quote=Rob King;262878][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

To be fair, the parent-child relationship isn't built on equality like the modern marriage is.[/QUOTE]

I also find it interesting to replace "kids" with "employees" or "servants" sometimes too.[/QUOTE]

Again, they are different situations. They aren't relationships built on instilling cultural norms into undeveloped humans who would otherwise not have the necessary education.

They're also not built on familial love.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough.

As I said, I only find it interesting to compare spanking children to other situations, I'm not saying corporal punishment of kids is definitely bad. I don't have kids, I don't know if I'll ever have kids, and if I do I don't know if I'll smack them or not. I'd prefer not to inflict violence on them though, regardless of the justification. However, that's just me, I'm not going to tell anyone else how to raise their children.

bhamv3 said:

Fair enough.

As I said, I only find it interesting to compare spanking children to other situations, I'm not saying corporal punishment of kids is definitely bad. I don't have kids, I don't know if I'll ever have kids, and if I do I don't know if I'll smack them or not. I'd prefer not to inflict violence on them though, regardless of the justification. However, that's just me, I'm not going to tell anyone else how to raise their children.

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Right on. I wasn't sure where you were going with that, but I just wanted to be clear that those situations are not quite analogous.

It is useful to swap nouns sometimes, though. If for no other reason than to see what sets the two situations apart.

Cheesy1 said:

Children Who Get Spanked Have Lower IQs

What a bunch of complete bullshit! I was spanked when I was a kid, and I was always one of the top kids in my class academically.

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Obviously you weren't spanked enough...

LittleSin;262869][quote=bhamv3 said:

I've always found it interesting to replace the words "kids" with the word "wife" whenever people discuss corporal punishment.

Click to expand...

I get spanked all the time.





[/QUOTE]

Looks like everything has been said in here. *dusts hands*

MindDetective said:

Looks like everything has been said in here. *dusts hands*

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This.

I came in to this thread all ready to post a "this study is likely biased, as smarter kids tend to behave better, and the parents of smarter kids may have a tendency to not spank their children as much", but then the later replies spanked me... hard.

figmentPez said:

It was sometimes hard to tell the trolls from the wackos on that board. There was the guy who claimed to be a werewolf, and to be connected to a whole underground movement of Christian werewolves, vampires, and other strange sub-cultures. There was the poster who was obsessed that the whole world was spelling Yahweh wrong, and tried to turn every thread towards discussion of his spelling, and his only cited source was a poorly written Wikipedia article (which itself didn't cite any information). It was a weird place at times.

Click to expand...

But in Latin, Jehovah begins with an "I"!

fade;262975][quote=figmentPez said:

It was sometimes hard to tell the trolls from the wackos on that board. There was the guy who claimed to be a werewolf, and to be connected to a whole underground movement of Christian werewolves, vampires, and other strange sub-cultures. There was the poster who was obsessed that the whole world was spelling Yahweh wrong, and tried to turn every thread towards discussion of his spelling, and his only cited source was a poorly written Wikipedia article (which itself didn't cite any information). It was a weird place at times.

Click to expand...

But in Latin, Jehovah begins with an "I"![/QUOTE]

*steps on J*

*nearly falls down a chasm*

*climbs back up*

Idiot! In Latin Jehovah starts with an "I"!

Ravenpoe said:

Study that shows statistical association between spankings and IQ debunked by forum full of geniuses with anecdotal evidence. Full report tonight at 11.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Now I want of study of the parents that pick their battles with their kids...

I hate hearing a parent say that. "I pick my battles." If it gets to the point of being a battle with a child, you bloody well play to win. If you choose not to battle with a child over a point, you end up giving up authority to your child.