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The disappearance of educational programming
#1
IronBrig4
IronBrig4
I was never able to watch The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles when I was a kid, so I'm using Netflix to watch the whole series from start to finish. It's amazing. There is so much history and other social studies packed into each episode.
Think about the educational TV we grew up with. I'm not talking about shows like Dora the Explorer which are geared toward preschoolers, but those meant for an older audience. We had Beakman's World, Bill Nye, and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego (both the cartoon and PBS show). They don't have any shows like that anymore. Not a one.
So what do you think happened to educational TV? Why did it just disappear?
Think about the educational TV we grew up with. I'm not talking about shows like Dora the Explorer which are geared toward preschoolers, but those meant for an older audience. We had Beakman's World, Bill Nye, and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego (both the cartoon and PBS show). They don't have any shows like that anymore. Not a one.
So what do you think happened to educational TV? Why did it just disappear?
#2
phil
phil
I'm sure it's still out there, it's just always been kind of scarce. I mean besides what you posted I can't really think of anything else you're talking about.
Remember, for every show that was about basic sciences and learning, there were 100 about farts.
Remember, for every show that was about basic sciences and learning, there were 100 about farts.
#3
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
It's mostly turned into stuff for REALLY young kids (most of the stuff Nick plays early in the day, and a lot of what is on Discovery Kids) that no longer appeals to older kids because some doctors somehow decided that the best time to teach kids things is from age 2-5... so television people focused exclusively on them. That's why you see lots of shows trying to teach kids Spanish or Chinese, because that's the best time to learn other languages.
The last older kid (7-10) educational stuff I remember seeing is Liberty's Kids (basically teaching kids about the American Revolution) and that was originally on... 5 years ago? I know it's still in syndication, if you know where to look for it. Aside from that, I can't think of anything recent. You could MAYBE argue that Mythbusters counts, as it does have educational content and specially made episodes for classrooms, but that's clearly not the main focus of the show.
The last older kid (7-10) educational stuff I remember seeing is Liberty's Kids (basically teaching kids about the American Revolution) and that was originally on... 5 years ago? I know it's still in syndication, if you know where to look for it. Aside from that, I can't think of anything recent. You could MAYBE argue that Mythbusters counts, as it does have educational content and specially made episodes for classrooms, but that's clearly not the main focus of the show.
#4
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
As the Ashster said, they tend to be aimed at more of the REALLY young kids these days. Dora and Diego come very strongly to mind. There's still new DVDs of those coming out.
#5
Zappit
Zappit
Pokemon. Then a barrage of cheap, dubbed anime. Then those shows were largely forgotten.So what do you think happened to educational TV? Why did it just disappear?
#6
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
Fuck, even Reading Rainbow's been cancelled and that shit was almost Sesame Street level with it's institution.
#7
AshburnerX
See... the thing is that there is a LEGAL requirement for educational programming on a lot of stations in the US. The cheap influx of bad anime didn't change that and considering Anime is no longer cheap unless it's terrible, it'd be cheaper just to make something in-house at this point. It's one of the reasons Cartoon Network hardly imports anything from Japan anymore.
AshburnerX
Pokemon. Then a barrage of cheap, dubbed anime. Then those shows were largely forgotten.[/QUOTE]So what do you think happened to educational TV? Why did it just disappear?
See... the thing is that there is a LEGAL requirement for educational programming on a lot of stations in the US. The cheap influx of bad anime didn't change that and considering Anime is no longer cheap unless it's terrible, it'd be cheaper just to make something in-house at this point. It's one of the reasons Cartoon Network hardly imports anything from Japan anymore.
#8
rac3r_x
rac3r_x
Because "reality" shows are cheap to make and have huge profit margins, and educational television costs money too make and makes little to no profit, cash-wise anyways. I give as two examples The Learning Channel and the Arts and Entertainment channels both started out with grand designs and high ideals of making television the learning tool it could truly be one day and quickly got swept up in the "reality" blur created by Survivor and Idol and are now just sad little networks eeking out a meager existence wrung from the jizz rag of "reality" television.
#9
IronBrig4
IronBrig4
Arts and Entertainment doesn't have anything artistic anymore. They used to show great mysteries (Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, etc) every week. And their Biography episodes used to be about people who weren't Britney Spears. They even made good movies and minseries like Horatio Hornblower, The Lost Battalion, and Longitude. Now it's just trite.
And I'm not sure what to make of Discovery. When I lived in Korea we had Discovery Channel Asia in our cable package. It was geared towards Australian, Japanese, Korean, and Southeast Asian audiences. It was some amazing stuff. Yes, they showed American Chopper and Overhauling, but not more than an hour a day. When I moved back Stateside I noticed that Discovery here devotes half their time slots to guys building bikes, and the other half to short-tempered fishermen.
I daresay the American viewing public has declined in intelligence in recent years. 'Tis a pity they have become so unrefined and plebeian. Consummate guttersnipes, the lot of them! It is due to their tastes that the A&E network ceased production of the Hornblower miniseries, and instead focused on "reality" series filled with such a vile assortment of mountebanks and cads! Harrrumph! If this is the state of affairs in American culture, I shall retire to my drawing room and peruse a Daniel Defoe novel whilst basking in the ambience of a Haydn string quartet. Perhaps a light repast of port and blue Stilton would not go amiss. I bid you all adieu.
*puts on mess jacket, adjusts monocle, and struts away, using ebony sword-cane to scatter the hapless street urchins before him*
And I'm not sure what to make of Discovery. When I lived in Korea we had Discovery Channel Asia in our cable package. It was geared towards Australian, Japanese, Korean, and Southeast Asian audiences. It was some amazing stuff. Yes, they showed American Chopper and Overhauling, but not more than an hour a day. When I moved back Stateside I noticed that Discovery here devotes half their time slots to guys building bikes, and the other half to short-tempered fishermen.
I daresay the American viewing public has declined in intelligence in recent years. 'Tis a pity they have become so unrefined and plebeian. Consummate guttersnipes, the lot of them! It is due to their tastes that the A&E network ceased production of the Hornblower miniseries, and instead focused on "reality" series filled with such a vile assortment of mountebanks and cads! Harrrumph! If this is the state of affairs in American culture, I shall retire to my drawing room and peruse a Daniel Defoe novel whilst basking in the ambience of a Haydn string quartet. Perhaps a light repast of port and blue Stilton would not go amiss. I bid you all adieu.
*puts on mess jacket, adjusts monocle, and struts away, using ebony sword-cane to scatter the hapless street urchins before him*
#10
PatrThom
PatrThom
Mr. Bazinga touched on it, there. The skills needed to function in today's society are not taught by Sesame Street, Newton's Apple, The Electric Company, nor even 3-2-1 Contact. Today's popular fellow needs to be up to speed on the latest celebrity scandal in order to be accepted by society. He will not be graded on his ability to remember the names of vice-presidents nor to know how borders have moved over time. His status will be measured by his ability to belittle his peers or best them at carnal trivia.
When Jeopardy! goes off the air, all hope will be lost. It has already begun to slip.
--Patrick
When Jeopardy! goes off the air, all hope will be lost. It has already begun to slip.
--Patrick
#11
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Actually, there was a big push by fans and alumni of the show to gather the money needed to renew it's broadcasting fee (or something like that, I can't remember what it is called) in order for it to stay on the air because PBC couldn't afford to renew it. I don't remember how close they got.Fuck, even Reading Rainbow's been cancelled and that shit was almost Sesame Street level with it's institution.
#12
Frankie Williamson
That's actually really nice to hear.
Frankie Williamson
Don't forget daily marathons of Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs. Spoiler alert on Dirty Jobs, the job sucks ass and is dirty.Arts and Entertainment doesn't have anything artistic anymore. They used to show great mysteries (Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, etc) every week. And their Biography episodes used to be about people who weren't Britney Spears. They even made good movies and minseries like Horatio Hornblower, The Lost Battalion, and Longitude. Now it's just trite.
And I'm not sure what to make of Discovery. When I lived in Korea we had Discovery Channel Asia in our cable package. It was geared towards Australian, Japanese, Korean, and Southeast Asian audiences. It was some amazing stuff. Yes, they showed American Chopper and Overhauling, but not more than an hour a day. When I moved back Stateside I noticed that Discovery here devotes half their time slots to guys building bikes, and the other half to short-tempered fishermen.
I daresay the American viewing public has declined in intelligence in recent years. 'Tis a pity they have become so unrefined and plebeian. Consummate guttersnipes, the lot of them! It is due to their tastes that the A&E network ceased production of the Hornblower miniseries, and instead focused on "reality" series filled with such a vile assortment of mountebanks and cads! Harrrumph! If this is the state of affairs in American culture, I shall retire to my drawing room and peruse a Daniel Defoe novel whilst basking in the ambience of a Haydn string quartet. Perhaps a light repast of port and blue Stilton would not go amiss. I bid you all adieu.
*puts on mess jacket, adjusts monocle, and struts away, using ebony sword-cane to scatter the hapless street urchins before him*
Actually, there was a big push by fans and alumni of the show to gather the money needed to renew it's broadcasting fee (or something like that, I can't remember what it is called) in order for it to stay on the air because PBC couldn't afford to renew it. I don't remember how close they got.[/QUOTE]Fuck, even Reading Rainbow's been cancelled and that shit was almost Sesame Street level with it's institution.
That's actually really nice to hear.
#13
rac3r_x
rac3r_x
Yes, I can see it now in the near future, The Children's Television Workshop present Jersey Shore: The Next Generation brought to you by social decline and a variety of STDs.
#14
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
The issue with A&E, History, and Discovery was few people wanted to watch good shows about Art, History, or Science. So they all became reality TV stations. And TLC is all home improvement shows and pregger chicks.
I think it is funny that the recent documentary on History, America the Story of Us, was their biggest hit in years.
I think it is funny that the recent documentary on History, America the Story of Us, was their biggest hit in years.
#15
Chibibar
Chibibar
I have to agree that quality content (like art, history and science) has to be accurate and thus cost money. Reality TV, you just make stuff up and people will believe it.The issue with A&E, History, and Discovery was few people wanted to watch good shows about Art, History, or Science. So they all became reality TV stations. And TLC is all home improvement shows and pregger chicks.
I think it is funny that the recent documentary on History, America the Story of Us, was their biggest hit in years.
#16
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
You know what I miss on TLC? The Operation. I watched the hell out of that show. I was so fascinated by the operations they showed.
#17
PatrThom
PatrThom
Seconded!
Now if I want to see something like that, I have to go to YouTube!, of all places.
--Patrick
Now if I want to see something like that, I have to go to YouTube!, of all places.
--Patrick
#18
IronBrig4
IronBrig4
I think TLC's motto used to be "Entertain Your Brain." I wonder how many more reality shows they'll have about midgets with tons of kids.
#19
North_Ranger
North_Ranger
Thank God for all the (good) Il Était Une Fois... series on DVDs.
And there's still a good number of edutainment series made in here; mostly because one of the national channels actually runs a several-hour segment called 'School TV' on weekday mornings.
And there's still a good number of edutainment series made in here; mostly because one of the national channels actually runs a several-hour segment called 'School TV' on weekday mornings.
#20
Chazwozel
I'm kind of sick of people in my generation talking about how lazy and dumb kids are these days. You all sound like a bunch of fucking grandpas gathered at a barn raising. I'll tell you one thing, kids today are probably 10 times more savvy then we were at their age.
---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------
---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------
I fucking hate TLC. The Learning Channel does not mean following around midgets, John and Kate, and factory cup cake tours are NOT learning.
Chazwozel
They still have them. Tons of them:I was never able to watch The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles when I was a kid, so I'm using Netflix to watch the whole series from start to finish. It's amazing. There is so much history and other social studies packed into each episode.
Think about the educational TV we grew up with. I'm not talking about shows like Dora the Explorer which are geared toward preschoolers, but those meant for an older audience. We had Beakman's World, Bill Nye, and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego (both the cartoon and PBS show). They don't have any shows like that anymore. Not a one.
So what do you think happened to educational TV? Why did it just disappear?
- The Blue Planet [ Teens/Mature Teens ] - The BBC series about life in the oceans, from the tropics to the poles. Includes Blue Planet Challenge stars, games, and factfiles.
- DragonflyTV [ Kids/Teens ] - Depicts kids getting interactive, energy-packed opportunities to do real science activities, based on Twin Cities Public Television's new science series DragonflyTV.
- Life's Greatest Miracle [ Teens/Mature Teens ] - NOVA uses stunning inside-the-body photography and state-of-the-art computer animation to show the making of a human life from conception to birth. Also learn about how cells divide and how the sex of an egg is determined.
- Mythbusters [ Teens/Mature Teens ] - Jamie and Adam put all the popular myths from history, television and film and put them to the test scientifically. Includes video and photo galleries and an interactive puzzles.
- Newton's Apple [ Kids/Teens ] - Whether it's a question about dinosaurs or space travel, robot camp or car engines, this PBS show finds the answer. Has info on episodes, multimedia science resources, and "try this at home" simple experiments.
- Nova [ Teens/Mature Teens ] - This weekly documentary series probes the far reaches of earth, sea and stars ... from ants to aliens.
- Scientific American Frontiers [ Teens/Mature Teens ] - From alien invasions to the bionic body, the PBS series with host Alan Alda explores science with a fun perspective. Site has a TV schedule, details and past and future shows.
- Weather Dude [ Kids/Teens ] - Include information about host Nick Walker of The Weather Channel, weather basics, meteorology topics, forecasts, weather-related gift ideas, and weather songs.
I'm kind of sick of people in my generation talking about how lazy and dumb kids are these days. You all sound like a bunch of fucking grandpas gathered at a barn raising. I'll tell you one thing, kids today are probably 10 times more savvy then we were at their age.
---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------
By age 7-10 you're supposed to have learned how to engage and use books to learn. You can't depend on TV for everything. There are hundreds of educational videos out there, and hundreds of educational shows. Why do we need to make everything a fucking game to enjoy it? Why can't you teach kids to learn for the sake of learning. Edutainment has its place, but when you're dealing with teenagers, you're preparing them to enter the market economy and work for a living. Edutainment doesn't help prepare kids for college/work. Not everything in life is fun and entertaining. In fact, the need to be entertained on a 24/7 basis is an advertising gimmick that brainwashes you into requiring entertainment on a constant basis from the day you turn on a TV. Yup, your boredom is modeled by and exploited by advertising.It's mostly turned into stuff for REALLY young kids (most of the stuff Nick plays early in the day, and a lot of what is on Discovery Kids) that no longer appeals to older kids because some doctors somehow decided that the best time to teach kids things is from age 2-5... so television people focused exclusively on them. That's why you see lots of shows trying to teach kids Spanish or Chinese, because that's the best time to learn other languages.
The last older kid (7-10) educational stuff I remember seeing is Liberty's Kids (basically teaching kids about the American Revolution) and that was originally on... 5 years ago? I know it's still in syndication, if you know where to look for it. Aside from that, I can't think of anything recent. You could MAYBE argue that Mythbusters counts, as it does have educational content and specially made episodes for classrooms, but that's clearly not the main focus of the show.
---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------
I think TLC's motto used to be "Entertain Your Brain." I wonder how many more reality shows they'll have about midgets with tons of kids.
I fucking hate TLC. The Learning Channel does not mean following around midgets, John and Kate, and factory cup cake tours are NOT learning.
#21
Fun Size
Fun Size
Plus PBS Kids is still pumping out kid shows, many of which are aimed at slightly older crowds. Most revolve around reading, although some like Word Girl and Martha Speaks are focused on learning advanced vocabulary words.
#22
PatrThom
PatrThom
I have seen (and enjoyed) most of those programs. I especially look forward to SAF's coverage of the annual engineering contests. I think the OP's lament (and mine) was more that there doesn't seem to be sufficient educational programming for the under-7 crowd.
--Patrick
--Patrick
#23
Covar
Covar
1) It costs a lot of money to run a TV Network
2) Edutainment Shows attract a niche audience that does not provide the revenue needed.
3) The Internet Provides a much more available and affordable avenue for niche content.
See TechTV and the growth of TWiT and Revision3.
2) Edutainment Shows attract a niche audience that does not provide the revenue needed.
3) The Internet Provides a much more available and affordable avenue for niche content.
See TechTV and the growth of TWiT and Revision3.