The Odd Couple: building two very different rigs

DarkAudit · Apr 21, 2011

I'm in the middle of two very different projects. One is building a PC mostly from scratch, and the other is rescuing working parts from the HP Pavilion I fried last summer.

The primary PC looks like this so far:

Case: Rosewill Blackbone (on hand)
PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W
Motherboard: ASRock P67 Extreme 4 (on hand)
CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K
CPU cooler: Corsair H50
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver 5
Memory: 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X-Series DDR3-1600 (2x4GB) (on hand)
GPU: GIGABYTE ATI Radeon HD6850 1GB (x2 in Crossfire) (ordered first 7/17)

Optical Drive: LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer SATA model (on hand)
SDD: 120GB Intel 510
HDD: 1TB Seagate Barracuda
Monitor: LG Flatron E2340 23"
Keyboard: Logitech G15 (on hand)

With the sale on the memory at Newegg this weekend, that, the CPU fan, and hopefully the motherboard (out of stock as of this post,), I'll be ordering just before I leave work tomorrow, with parts arriving at the start of next week. CPU will have to wait until next payday, and video card the one after that. I'll have to make do with an old 7900GS for a little while.

The salvage PC is a little more set in stone. CPU, Memory, video card, and HD are all on hand. This is to replace my mom's ancient Sony laptop.

Case: Rosewill Blackbone
PSU: Rosewill RG630-S12 630W
Motherboard: ASRock A770DE+
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (on hand)
RAM: 4GB DDR2 4x1GB (2 sticks PNY, 2 came with the original HP) (on hand)
HDD: 250GB WD Caviar SE WD2500JE (on hand)
GPU: PNY Verto GeForce 7900GS (on hand)
Monitor: 19" HP widescreen (on hand)

Looking at Jay's thread, the Extreme 6 motherboard would be nice, but doesn't really fit the budget. I still have bills to pay, and would like a little something left over for a weekend Five Guys run.

Thanks to noax for helping me most every morning in IRC for helping me assemble the current list.

(5/5 edit: updated parts list as payday that buys CPU approaches...)
(7/17 edit: time to finish the build with worthy GPUs)

PatrThom · Apr 24, 2011

Keep us posted and let us know what works and doesn't work for ya, someone might be able to jump in if you get stuck (or suggest an alternative if a part disappears from stock and never comes back).

--Patrick

DarkAudit · Apr 25, 2011

I just ordered the AMD motherboard this afternoon. I can test out the salvaged parts as soon as it arrives. If it all works out, I may just keep it all assembled and order a replacement case and PSU for the primary box.

DarkAudit · Apr 27, 2011

Both motherboards arrived today. Can't really do much with the P67 board yet, as I won't be ordering the CPU for another week. So I went ahead and assembled the AMD 'puter from all the old parts from the dead pavilion.

SUCCESS. Everything is up and running. Except for the second DVD drive, which has power, but isn't recognized by the system. I'll check the cable after I'm done installing updates.

I think I'm going to just reorder the same motherboard and PSU again so I don't have to dismantle anything from the running desktop.

PatrThom · Apr 28, 2011

Check to make sure your DVD drive is set correctly. If it's IDE, you'll have to have the Master/Slave set correctly (and plugged into the correct spot on the cable).
IDE cable:

:Computer:================================:Slave:===========:Master:

--Patrick

DarkAudit · Apr 28, 2011

The cable had come completely loose. Reseated and it's fine.

DarkAudit · May 5, 2011

The salvaged computer has mostly been completed. I'm going to scavenge the video card and monitor off of it for a few weeks while I wait for GPU and monitor funds.

After reading a few user reviews of the Rosewill PSU, I've decided to go a different route for the main box, as shown above. The OCZ is also modular, so there won't be quite the mess of excess cabling.

I did a preliminary placing of the Hyper 212 Plus cooler to make sure I had enough room. Front to back is fine. Plenty of room for two fans and all memory slots. But it's a tall sucker. I might have about 1 mm to play with, if that. More likely the tips of the heat pipes at the top will scrape against the case side panel when reattached. Certainly any side fans are now out of the question.

Covar · May 9, 2011

If you don't name these machines Felix and Oscar I will be disappointed.

DarkAudit · May 9, 2011

Main machine is mostly built. Just need the primary video card. Dropped an HD 5570 into it for now so I could have both machines up and running.

Acquiring the CPU was... interesting. IRC folks know the story.

I was getting temps far higher than what seems right when I started to overclock the 2500K. Getting 90C where others claim 70 or less with the same cooler. I switched over to the Corsair H50 last night. Still getting higher temps than what seems to be average for this motherboard and cooler. Using the stock fan and configuration (rear fan reversed into an intake fan attached to radiator). I'm going to get some more mounting hardware at Lowe's in a bit to attach a second fan to the radiator and set it up as a push-pull exhausting out the back like normal airflow goes. Since I now have room for a side fan, I'll use that as extra intake.

Using the default presets for turbo 4.6GHz overclock per these settings:

PatrThom · May 10, 2011

Could try backing off the CPU core voltage. Either that or look to see if the air around the CPU is getting stuck in a loop rather than being exhausted from the case (or that the fan speed is not set to low).

--Patrick

DarkAudit · May 10, 2011

I've rearranged the fans again. Front and side intake. PSU and rear exhaust. I've got two fans on the radiator in a push-pull setup exhausting out the back instead of intake like Corsair wants. Temps are now topping out at ~75C during RealTemp's test. The same test that topped out at 90C before is now down to ~72.

With a core voltage of 1.38, the Overclock.net folks are telling me my voltage is still too high. System appears stable as it is, and temps aren't anywhere near what they were when I started.

DarkAudit · May 10, 2011

Looking at this Tom's Hardware thread, I was able to pass the 1 hour Prime95 and 5-pass IntelBurnTest threshold at 1.280V at a 4.6GHz overclock. Max temp of 68C during the Prime95 test. Running IntelBurnTest on Maximum got as high as 78. The RealTemp sensor test topped out at 66. Quite a change.

Next steps are to go for a longer Prime95 test and then read up on what those voltage settings I'm using actually mean. Because as of now, they're just numbers someone handed to me saying "hey, use these."

PatrThom · May 10, 2011

The lower the voltage, the cooler the chip will run. However, if you undervolt it too much, you will start to lose stability (as you essentially 'starve' the chip). The chip should come with a stock voltage (possibly printed right on it). That should be your starting voltage. Dial that voltage in, then see how high you can take it solely by adjusting the multiplier. Once you max out the multiplier (fail your Prime95 test, start getting crashes/locks), you usually have to start increasing the voltage if you want to go any higher. This will make the chip run hotter, though.

Some people have had some success by running the chip really slowly (unusually low multiplier) while dialing up the voltage quite a bit. They claim it 'burns in' the chip faster without ruining stability. My opinion is that if you're not trying to set any records, you probably don't care. My advice is usually to find the highest speed you can run multiple instances of Prime95 or some other stress test without any problems, then back it down a notch or two to allow it to stay reliable as it ages.

--Patrick

DarkAudit · May 11, 2011

A six-hour Prime95 run went smoothly on the current settings. Until someone steps in and says I've specifically got something wrong, as long as the system is staying stable I'm going to leave it as is.

PatrThom · May 11, 2011

So long as you had multi-core enabled when you ran your Prime95 test, that says it should be stable enough.

--Patrick

DarkAudit · May 18, 2011

Already time for an upgrade on the main box. Looking at going SSD for OS and applications. The ASRock board is SATA III ready, but my wallet is not. There's this SATA II 120GB Intel SSD for $219.

Is SATA II fine, or should I hold out for SATA III?

(ETA: It's a given that all my music, videos, pictures, etc. will be on the HDD, but what about the AppData folders? Should I leave that on the SSD or just have all user data on the HDD?)

PatrThom · May 18, 2011

SATAII (300) should be fine. Even the best mechanical drives can't consistently keep up with SATAII speeds. And while that Intel drive may not be the fastest SSD out there, it is one of the most reliable.

Not sure what sort of advice to give on the user data, I just don't move mine around that much.

--Patrick

DarkAudit · May 20, 2011

Word is Micro Center will match Newegg's prices now. If so, This OCZ Agility 3 gets me SATA III for only $15 more than the Intel. The shopping center where I'll be headed also has a Five Guys. Totally worth it.

DarkAudit · May 30, 2011

Got the Agility 3 last week. Even though it tests out a bit slower than the Vertex 3, the difference compared to the old HDD is astonishing. The windows boot screen is there and gone in a flash. Waiting around after login? Not any more.

Once the next payday rolls around, I'll be looking at the video card upgrade, although I could stand to hold out for a couple more weeks. The 5570 is doing a decent job as it is. Especially since the game buying fund won't open until the machine is complete.

There is one last issue. I've got USB keyboard and mouse, USB printer, USB IR receiver, and 2 USB external drives. Connect them all at boot, and boot times go into the toilet. I've seen it take the keyboard take as long as two minutes to wake up after the Windows login screen is already up. Removing a couple extraneous USB devices fixes this.

Since the My Book I have connected is old (2006 vintage), small (250 GB), and barely used, I'll ditch it in favor of the BlacX docking station I have. Now that I have the new board, I can finally use it as an eSATA dock and drop in a 1TB drive. I could even retire the 500GB SimpleDrive while I'm at it.

One last trick. I want to set it up for remote login from the laptop. None of that GoToMyPC crap, though. Not if I can help it.

PatrThom · May 30, 2011

Might think about getting a powered hub. Your boot delay could be due to low power (common with unpowered hubs). Either that, or your hub takes a while to wake up.

--Patrick

DarkAudit · May 31, 2011

PatrThom said:
Might think about getting a powered hub. Your boot delay could be due to low power (common with unpowered hubs). Either that, or your hub takes a while to wake up.

--Patrick

It's the stock USB ports in the back of the machine, and both drives have their own power supply.

After payday it should be moot, anyway. A regular SATA drive in the BlacX dock and the two USB drives can be repurposed or retired.

PatrThom · May 31, 2011

The PSU in the drive enclosure will supply power to the interface board and the drive itself. However, it generally doesn't do anything to 'boost' the power used for signaling. If your MLB can't supply enough power to its USB chip to hold up conversations with more than 4 devices at a time, it is not going to matter whether those devices have their own independent power supplies. Each end of the communication is supposed to be responsible for its own power. It's like having two people with walkie-talkies...if A's batteries are low, he might still be able to hear B when B transmits, but when A keys up the mic, there isn't enough juice to fully power the transmitter, and so B doesn't get the message.

--Patrick

DarkAudit · Jul 17, 2011

Time to stop dicking around and finally get the GPU(s) the main box deserves. I bought an HD 5570 just to get me through setting it up, and I kept delaying and delaying getting the intended video card as I kept finding other things to do with my money.

After reading the last Tom's Hardware system builder article, I've decided to ditch the planned HD 6950, and go with the twin HD 6850s in crossfire. Just ordered one of them from Amazon (Amazon thanks Newegg for raising their price by $30 over the weekend).

DarkAudit · Jul 28, 2011

Annnnnd... it's done. Just the one 6850 boosted my WEI score to 7.7. Together it's... exactly the same.

BUT... I'm getting well over 150fps on WoW at 1080p and Ultra settings. Portal 2 and DiRT3 look fantastic with everything cranked to the maximum. Temps on everything well within specs. And with the AC in the room going, the rig is virtually silent.

So now what? What do I upgrade first?

I was contemplating the Ceton TV tuner card. I could spend less than half that if I just wanted the local digital channels and get a digital cable USB stick. Or nothing at all if I wanted to keep TV and computer separate.

Like I mentioned in another thread, 16GB RAM is overkill for games these days. But is it really? What is there to gain by filling up the extra slots if I'm not transcoding a ton of media or such? It's a gaming, surfing, and watching/listening rig.

PatrThom · Jul 28, 2011

Usually, you gain a slower CPU (extra load on the memory controller driving more modules means the CPU slows down) but you can run more applications at once without as much disk thrashing when you switch between them. You also gain the ability to work with larger documents (usually not an issue unless you are working with 3D models, databases, video, sound banks/fonts, RAW images, or other data-hungry apps). Some apps may be able to use the extra RAM to cache data or disk accesses, which means more efficient HDD use or longer pause/scrub window while running DVR.

The first thing you should upgrade is some sort of external/NAS drive. Backups would be good now that you have everything the way you want it.

--Patrick