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So, there's this girl...isn't there always?

In this case, it's a gal that I met down here in the states. We dated briefly in the fall, but she ended it because she wasn't ready to date again. She's a divorcee, single mother of a 6-year old boy, and still recovering from an abusive relationship. Totally understandable, of course.

The thing is...she is, in my eyes, perfect. She hits pretty much every button for me in what I look for in a potential future companion. And even she admits we have some sort of connection. Right now, we're hanging out a bit more as friends after a few months of not hearing from each other (my fault; depression's hit me bad in the last few months). And she's considering patching things up with her ex. It kills me that she's considering it, not just because of the connection me and her have, but also that she openly admits that she wouldn't be happy going back with him. It's one of those situations where she would prefer the devil she knows rather than the fear of the unknown and having to start from scratch again with dating.

Again, this is all stuff I can completely understand. It might drive me mad because of how much I'm into her, but I understand. I've been there. I was in a 3-year relationship once that was 2 years too long. We were both afraid of never finding someone again. I digress.

I had a realization recently, though: this particular gal - we'll call her Mandy (the single mother) - reminds me a lot of the one that got away. Not the above mentioned 3-year relationship, but another.

Brief backstory: The one that got away, we'll call her Danielle, I've known just about literally all my life. We've known each other since Grade 2. We dated only through long-distance, and never living in the same postal code area while we were both single. We've been friends longer than anything else. We connect so well and know each other so well that we know how to make the other feel better and meet on the same level on just about everything, even if our interests may vary a little.

Now, with Danielle, I've long accepted that her and I will never be. She's now married with a kid and I honestly, truly couldn't be happier for her. She's had a rough life, with a deadbeat dad she never knew, and an abusive mother. Her husband is an amazing guy and she's unsurprisingly become an amazing mother.

That said...she basically ruined me for any other woman. Because we connected (and still connect, though on a friends' basis) so well, share a variety of interests, not to mention personal opinions on social issues, it's hard for me not to compare her with other women.

With Mandy, she is absolutely the closest thing I've met that is like Danielle. Not to say that she's exactly alike, and in fact they differ in many ways. But as far as the type of woman? She's perfect.

Believe me, I know it's completely unhealthy to compare. Not to mention obsess, as a friend of mine put it. But it's almost impossible. Danielle didn't just set the bar, but she was also my first love. It's not just type of woman, but in the sort of things that I'm attracted to, physically, mentally, spiritually, the whole nine yards.

And...yeah. Sorry for the incredibly long rant about this. I'm not even sure if I'm looking for advice or just needing to get this off my chest. Feel free to say what you wish about the matter, though. Though please refrain from saying "Sounds like you still want to boink Danielle." Which is...partly true, I suppose. But as I said, I've moved on as far as knowing me and her will never happen. It's the moving on part that's hard after she's set the bar so high.

Have you guys ever gone on a date? Does she know how you feel? Or is this like...



?

You ever notice how artists and musicians that die early are often considered to be geniuses in their craft? Held above the others, put into a special category. If only they'd lived longer, the amazing art they could have produced.

Except that they aren't statistically better than those who didn't meet tragic, early fates. It's a perception bias, we experienced them so briefly that when they were gone, all we have are those early year memories. They didn't live to grow older, put out a second album, and fail to live up to the hype of their first. We didn't get to see their career slide downhill, until they start showing up on VH1 reality tv shows where someone tries to date a llama.

Instead, we're left with an experience gap. A "what if." And the things we fill in to that what if will always be brighter and better than what could have happened in real life. The unknown will always be more appealing than the known, and far more favorable.

It's food for thought.

Sounds like you're describing a kind of "what if" version of nostalgia, Raven. I think you're partly right. That's what "the one that got away" is pretty much about, isn't it? But in this case, I think it's also that Danielle has kind of become the standard by which I judge other women. If that makes sense.

Jay said:

Have you guys ever gone on a date? Does she know how you feel??

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As I said, we dated briefly in the fall. End of our first date, we kissed. And it was only recently she admitted we had a connection. Hell, we hung out today at her place and watched Clue...with her son. First time I met him. And he seems to like me. I don't know if she did that on purpose to see how me and her son would get along. More likely, I'm just firmly in the friend zone now that she doesn't care if I meet her son since I'm not a potential future father figure.

Honestly? We're different people Nick. I approach things quite differently compared to what I'd expect you to do.

You could be right... she could be slowly working towards building a new relationship with you, she's got baggage with a divorce and a kid. Occasional dates, talking to you on the phone getting to know you better, seeing how you get along with the kid... some people take their time. Especially after divorces.

Personally, I don't like that. Why? As you already feel, it's draining on the emotional side. You don't know what is going on. Is she feeling you out? Is she afraid of losing you as a friend? If so, will you get friend zoned if you're not her knight in shining armor? It's a lot of baggage you don't need. Also, you need to understand her priorities with a kid are completely different than yours.

Ultimately, it's a question on how you want to approach things. If this was me... I'd sit down with her somewhere alone, no friends... no kid around and tell her how it is without making a big deal about it. Somewhere comfortable... like a coffee shop, one that isn't too full with people. Sit down and simply ask her how things are, how she feels about "you two". Tell her how you feel without putting her on the spot by being overly dramatic. "I think you're a great person and I love INSERT KID'S NAME" and I'd love to be more involved with you, how do you feel about things? Am I wasting my time feeling this way?"

"I know you want to take things slow and I agree. However, definite answers are important to me. If we give us a chance, let's take it one day at a time and see how our story plays out."

If she's truly the perfect girl you feel, she'll be able to make a decision.

Now if you're afraid of the answers.... whether you hear them today or in 6 months... you're better off today my friend. Don't you feel you wasted enough time as it is?

Thing is, there's a couple of additional things that factor into this:

1) I won't be living here by the middle or end of the summer. She's American. It's unlikely a relationship would be strong enough to hold if I moved back to Canada, even if I were only about a 2-hour drive away.
2) I had a realization recently: I'm tired of coming home to just a cat. I may not be ready to get married, but I'm certainly wanting a relationship these days.
3) As I mentioned before, she's considering getting back with her ex. Which...complicates things. I'm old enough to realize that, as I get older, single mother dating situations will occur more often.

But yeah, I think you're right. I think I need to sit down with her and just basically ask her. I should just tell her how I feel. After meeting her son for the first time, it doesn't scare me away but entice me even more. He's frigging awesome and darn smart for a kid his age.

I had a "one that got away". Trust me, I STILL look at pictures of her today and wonder "what if".

*For reference, if you remember, she's was my Long Term Ex-Girlfriend's best friends that I was falling in love with but ended up pushing away to save my relationship with my now EX. One of my biggest regrets... dunno what advice to give you, all I can do is give my understanding condolence.

Alternate plan:
"I need you to marry me so I don't get deported!"


Also:

Psh. Screw that noise. I can't stand living in the U.S.!

Ah yes, if you're moving away, that complicated things a lot.

ThatNickGuy said:

More likely, I'm just firmly in the friend zone

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I read your first post, and this is exactly what it sounds like.

Here's the thing.

* You don't have to be there. Your choice, ultimately - it' a barrier she's put up to see if you're boyfriend material, or friend material, and you get to break through, or stay put.
* She's contemplating going back to a bad relationship. Why? Because she doesn't want to be alone. Because she wants the companionship, comfort, and support a relationship brings.
* She knows it's bad, but why is she thinking it's better than you? Probably because she's not sure you can be the person she needs.

Look. Right now, she is the next one that's going to get away. That's it. It's already what's going to happen unless you take action. You need to choose now if you're willing to accept what your current course of inaction is going to end as.

You've always regretted not being more proactive regarding your first one-that-got-away and the fact that you recognize that in this situation is good. You recognize the signs.

Now you simply have to act on them.

Of course it's never simple, but you're going to have to take a look at what you have in your life now that is more important than the relationship you want to build with her, and make some sacrifices to see if you can make it work out. It might not work out, but if you leave one foot out the door, she will sense that and she will understand that you're not fully committed, that you're hanging on to an easy-out.

That she's considering going back to an abusive situation suggests she needs/wants a committed, assertive individual. She already suspects that you're not that person - which is why you're in the friend zone.

It's a tough choice. It might not work out. But you won't know unless you decide to chase her, and give her the relationship she's looking for.

Decide now - because every day you let things slide, they go in the inevitable direction of failure, and it will be keenly felt. There's literally no good reason not to try. There are lots of stupid reasons - your own comfort zone, fear of failure/rejection, fear of the future (ok, you fall in love and have to choose between her and canada, what now? Stupid question! Cross that bridge when you get to it, for now, date!), etc. Not one of them is a good reason to sit on your hands and pine for a girl you can take out on a date this week.

For one, I never said that I wasn't proactive with the first "one that got away". It was just rotten circumstances more than anything else. We never lived in the same area while we were both single.

As far as Mandy goes, she fully admits that the reason she's considering going back with her ex is because she knows how he'll react in any given situation. She's afraid of having to start all that over again, to find out how the other person ticks, etc. I don't think it's a case of wanting a more assertive individual. It's simply that she's terrified of the unknown when it comes to dating. Her ex was her first, last, and only person she's ever "been" with. I think he was a high school sweetheart, but don't quote me on that. But yeah, she's fully admitted that she's terrified of the dating unknown.

Honestly, the reason I'm trying not to act on anything is that she's still coping with her own issues. And plus, the fact that I'm Canadian and she's American doesn't help, especially when I'll be moving back to Canada in the summer...and have absolutely no interest in staying in this town or country. As much as she might be everything I idealize in a woman, I don't see it working out, anyway.

C'est la vie.
Added at: 00:26

Heh, since you numbered them so succinctly, I'll response as such.

1) Oh, I fully admit she's not perfect. She's broken, with a lot of issues. But she still matches a lot of the ideal things that I look for in a woman.
2) Date? Here? HAHAHAHA! *wipes a tear* Oh, that's good. This is, sadly, the middle of flipping nowhere, Jules. The dating sites I used to try (OkCupid, PoF, etc) list the same three or four women and...yeah, to say I'm not interested would be an understatement. My dating choices are incredibly, incredibly, incredibly limited here.
3) Heh, I have nothing to add here.
4) Ehhhhhh, I've never done the FWB thing before. I don't think I'd feel comfortable with it, honestly. Besides, not only do I doubt she'd be interested (because she's similar to me in that sense), but I wouldn't have two clues how to bring something like that up.

Just fyi Nick, shooting down absolutely every bit of advice given is going to end up with people mistaking you for Norris

Don't be hatin', ya'll. Don't be hatin'! Ya'll don't know me!

*randomly lifts up his shirt and shows off the half-manboobs*

If she's thinking about getting back with her abusive ex my advice is to run as fast and as far as you can, especially if he's the dad. Seriously, that shit's going to be a fucking brick around the neck of the relationship dragging it down to the depths. Until she can let him go you'll always be "that guy who treats her right when she's not with her true love".

Dave said:

If she's thinking about getting back with her abusive ex my advice is to run as fast and as far as you can, especially if he's the dad. Seriously, that shit's going to be a fucking brick around the neck of the relationship dragging it down to the depths. Until she can let him go you'll always be "that guy who treats her right when she's not with her true love".

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Or worse - she'll threaten to run back to him to get her way in arguments with you. She'll always have an easy out.

ThatNickGuy said:

So, there's this girl...

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Sounds like ThatNorrisGuy's prom night.

I know my advice is..pretty limited, but to me it sounds like she has more issues with herself than anything else. If she is going to get back with her ex, who makes her unhappy, I feel like the amount of self-worth she has for herself is zero. And thats a pretty sad place to be. I'm betting being in an abusive relationship tore her down pretty hard.

Thats messed up if she's so afraid of the unknown when the known is just as scary. It sounds like she's more afraid of a repeat than just the unknown.

I would worry that she would be an unpredictable livewire - during arguments and the like. I feel bad judging since I really don't know, but she sounds like she might beat herself up alot verbally, which puts a dent in most any relationship I've ever seen (my highschool one for example).

I feel like she needs to get back on her feet for herself, without her ex. She sounds like she needs a strong friend to show her that the unknown isn't so scary, and to pump some self-worth back into those veins of hers. I think if she were more happy with who she is, she would be more open to the dating scene. And, for me, I wouldn't afraid to be good friends before the dating commences. Being a good friend, and showing her the best qualities that you have, is never a bad thing - a relationship doesn't have to bloom immediately for it to be a good one and go the distance.

I wish you the best of luck though, sorry I'm not the best advice giver...

ThatNickGuy said:

And plus, the fact that I'm Canadian and she's American doesn't help, especially when I'll be moving back to Canada in the summer...and have absolutely no interest in staying in this town or country. As much as she might be everything I idealize in a woman, I don't see it working out, anyway.

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I say this is all the reason you need to keep it as friends. You're not just dating her, you're dealing with a kid potentially looking at you to be their dad. If you know there is no chance at a long term relationship, let it go.

Welp, she just updated her Facebook status from "single" to "in a relationship."

I'm throwing in the towel.

Do I "Hugs" for support or "Like" for sensibly throwing in the towel?

Either's fine, Primester. I'm disappointed, unsurprised, and fortunately not hurt. It's her damn loss.

ThatNickGuy said:

Welp, she just updated her Facebook status from "single" to "in a relationship."

I'm throwing in the towel.

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Well when I broke up with my long-time ex and went to look up and see how "the one that got away" was doing, to see if I had a chance to rekindle it, I was greeted with pictures of her Bachlorette party and wedding.

Ouch.

Fortunately, given that me and Mandy barely even dated, I can't even call her an ex or the one that got away or anything.

I'm sorry, but it really is her loss - in more ways than one.

Hopefully she can figure things out someday, she'll have a much better life when that happens.

In the meantime, us halforumites are here for you! I support you in you finding happiness.

https://www.halforums.com/threads/the-epic-win-thread-3-son-of-epic.22168/page-55#post-912243

Besides, hard to feel down when I discovered this.

Quotemander Prime said:

Do I "Hugs" for support or "Like" for sensibly throwing in the towel?

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You like, I'll hugs.

ThatNickGuy said:

https://www.halforums.com/threads/the-epic-win-thread-3-son-of-epic.22168/page-55#post-912243

Besides, hard to feel down when I discovered this.

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You're such a champ.

ThatNickGuy said:

Ouch.

Fortunately, given that me and Mandy barely even dated, I can't even call her an ex or the one that got away or anything.

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I never went on a date with her. I'm talking about the one that got away because I was already in a long term relationship.

Ah, I read the other post wrong. My bad. So, similar situation. Still "ouch," though.

ThatNickGuy said:

Either's fine, Primester. I'm disappointed, unsurprised, and fortunately not hurt. It's her damn loss.

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This is the best attitude ever. It really is her loss.

If I were a chick, or you were, or we were both gay, or just really drunk, or on some horrible horrible gameshow with sexy midgets, I'd do you.

Sometimes the one that you thought that got away was actually the one getting IN your way of something better.