Export thread

I'm not gonna get into tons of details, just get a couple things off my chest.

We saw The Princess and the Frog last weekend. Now, when I first saw the previews a while ago I knew Disney was in for a shitstorm on the racial front, merited or not. For people sitting on the fence about seeing the movie because of this issue, know this: There are people who will never be satisfied. For every problem that could be fixed, another will pop up in its place, either derivative or caused by it. Any complaint lobbied could probably be countered with another, and for the same reason. "Tiana gets turned into a frog, and somehow that makes her white." Well, change it and "Nothing magical happens to Tiana like other Disney princesses, because nothing magical happens to black girls." Both are head-scratchers.

I read an article which, had their changes been implemented, essentially would've left things at the end of the movie the way they were at the beginning because NOTHING would have happened. I'm sure that would raise complaints about no happily ever after, and then the end of the movie is the beginning, and still NOTHING happens.

What these critics fail to notice or even care about is that it doesn't matter that Tiana is black. She could've been any race and the movie would've been exactly the same. Hell, maybe that's their gripe, but it's a stupid point of view. The race angle is never played up in the movie or focused upon. It's just there, the way it's just there for most movies of this ilk. Same critics fail to notice that Tiana is one of the better characters Disney has produced, probably best since Aladdin. I think Belle is cool because I can relate to her in some ways, but Tiana is actually admirable and someone to take to heart in how important hard work is.

But I'll note that this is irrelevant to those tearing at the movie for perceived racism, or lack of elevation of racial overtones. The movie isn't important to them. This is once-in-a-lifetime chance to them to shred "Disney's black princess movie", and if they try to view things reasonably/logically/or even like movie critics, they'll miss that chance. Better to get their digs in, because their voices will fall away in time, whereas The Princess and the Frog is going to be around as long as Disney's other princess movies.

So the only long-lasting misfortune is how Tiana will be shoved into the Disney Princess lineup and the merchandising deals that are trite and stupid, and thank you John Lassetter that there won't be a direct to DVD sequel.

Anyway, that's my observation. We're going to see Avatar today, so I'll be back later for some more juicy faux racism.

BTW: I really enjoyed The Princess and the Frog. It was lively, the songs were good and didn't stop the movie in its tracks (instead they moved it forward, like it should be), the characters were well-rounded, and I'd love to see it again soon.

Hearing she's almost as good a character as Aladdin is wonderful news as that's my favorite Disney movie. I should really make time to see this one.

CynicismKills said:

Hearing she's almost as good a character as Aladdin is wonderful news as that's my favorite Disney movie. I should really make time to see this one.

Click to expand...

Note I'm not saying the movie itself is as good as Aladdin the movie itself though .

Prince Naveen: Pucker up, sweetpea, and I shall be handsome and cutting a rug again!
Tiana: Ugh... *puke face* Ok... *KISS*

Teh magic stuff: POOF!

Prince Naveen: Wh-what?! I'm still green!
Tiana: Yeah, what's up w- *looks at new webbed feet* AHHHHH! I'm a FROOGG!

...

Tiana: It's because AH'M BLACK, AIN'T IT?!

Hmmm... Now I'm tempted to go see this when it hits Finland, even though years of crapola Disney movies have made me bitter and cynical.

North_Ranger said:

Hmmm... Now I'm tempted to go see this when it hits Finland, even though years of crapola Disney movies have made me bitter and cynical.

Click to expand...

I recommend checking it out. It's pretty good and has one of Disney's best villains in a while: Dr. Facilier.

filmfanatic;323244][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:

Hmmm... Now I'm tempted to go see this when it hits Finland, even though years of crapola Disney movies have made me bitter and cynical.

Click to expand...

I recommend checking it out. It's pretty good and has one of Disney's best villains in a while: Dr. Facilier.[/QUOTE]

Oh, he had a real name? I didn't catch that in the film, since everyone was calling him the Shadow Man.

There's power in names, not just for Candlej

escushion said:

Oh, he had a real name? I didn't catch that in the film, since everyone was calling him the Shadow Man.

Click to expand...

That's his nickname, because he makes use of shadow minions as part of his voodoo tricks.

Seriously, Dr. Facilier is awsome. He's like a charismatic blend of Baron Samedi and Cab Calloway. I mean, the ultimate goal of his big plot is
He's definitely playing hardball.

filmfanatic;323449][QUOTE=escushion said:

Oh, he had a real name? I didn't catch that in the film, since everyone was calling him the Shadow Man.

Click to expand...

That's his nickname, because he makes use of shadow minions as part of his voodoo tricks.

Seriously, Dr. Facilier is awsome. He's like a charismatic blend of Baron Samedi and Cab Calloway. I mean, the ultimate goal of his big plot is
He's definitely playing hardball.[/QUOTE]

Oh totally. He's easily a new classic in the villains section. I just didn't realize he had a real name.

Are the complaints about this as well founded as the complaints from the Arab Anti-defamation League that the bad guy in Aladdin was an Arab? I thought all the characters in the story were Arabs, so what was the point of complaining?

There have been complaints about the bad guy being black, and that voodoo is being misrepresented and that's racist (even though pretty much the entirety of voodoo's presence in cinema falls into this category, not to mention there's another character who is black and uses it for good instead of evil).

Eh, it would still be bad if the bad guy portrayed a stereotype even if the other characters were of the same race. What would compound that is if you essentially made the good characters basically white, just with black skin. It would basically reinforce the whole "non-white culture people= bad" thing. Not saying it happens here, but providing a reason why it would still matter if the bad guy was Uncle Hassif Explosionsurat against loveable prettymuchwhite Joe Protagonist.

To tell you the truth though, I do want to see this movie. I have to admit, I do get kind of a idealized fantastical kick out of bad voodoo baddies, as awful as that may be on the spectrum of cultural literacy.

Though now I kind of want to look into children's movies that actually have cultural nuance with culturally nuanced characters. I don't exactly see Disney having a reason to really bust out of it's mold; however, I wonder what more amazing children's storytellers would do with that sort of material. Are there any movies like that which actually use different cultures for more than a color/setting change? I mean, American companies specifically; obviously other cultures will produce films which are majorly represented in their culture, language, etc etc etc

Because it's Disney they're damned if they do damned if they don't. I thought Disney did a good job with this. IMO the best comparison I can think of regarding the handling of race in this movie is the Cosby Show.

I mean, I haven't seen it so I can't say. And I'm not doubting it, necessarily, though it does make me wonder. Disney has a better track record of creating a revisionist history in their work to this date . But yeah, I'm not saying they didn't try, or fail miserably. I'm sure Disney had a crack team of lawyers and all sorts of other people to make sure the movie hit the race issue juuuuust right in the comfy zone.