The state of the game... and the guild.

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So I have been musing today about WoW, mostly coming to the realization that in the last few months I have logged on maybe once a week at the most, often for less then a half-hour. I was thinking about why, what changed, and I started to remember a few things that really bothered me more then I expected. One of these things ties heavily into the guild, and why I think it will never recover at this point.


So what went wrong? Why am I playing so little compared to the expansions that came before? Here is why...


1) Guild leveling has destroyed casual guilds.


This one was a major one for me, and something I didn't realize was going to happen until I was actually experiencing it in the game. You simply can't level at a decent speed in a guild with less then thirty active players. The perks are so good that people don't want to join a guild that does not have the perks, and those that did join a guild with perks are very reluctant to leave due to the loss of guild reputation.


A good example is my paladin on my horde server. I ended up joining a guild that had lots of good perks and was leveling quickly, and learned later that the GM was pretty much a total asshat that not only made fun of women players, but demanded everyone give him gold to buy stuff for himself and his alts, or they would be muted. I was going to leave, till I realized I had leveled to 85 and climbed up to Honored with the guild. If I quit, I would have to do that all over again, which is not easy to do when you have exhausted all your high level quests just getting up to Honored the first time. Leaving a guild for personal issues has become a penalized chore, rather then an easy choice.


On the other hand we have KoC, which due to the low amount of players these days (Seems only my wife and I are ever online at any point) we have yet to even get to level 5. Worst yet, is that we already got high reputation in the guild, so we leave, we have to start over, and getting people to join our guild at such a low level is impossible. In the end, guilds all over the spectrum that didn't mass invite at Cataclysm's launch have mostly died off or merged with larger guilds.


My only hope is that the new guild challenges make the leveling a bit easier.


2) The zones and quest flow have gotten way to linear.


When I heard that each zone was going to be more like the leveling flow of WOTLK, I was excited because I loved more story driven quest. However, I began to realize one major flaw in the system that didn't occur to me until I started leveling my alt. It has become too linear.


This is not so noticeable in the lower level zones, which still have a decent spread of zones to choose from. It is extremely noticeable in the high level zones however due to lack of unique areas. Let us look at Northrend for a second. On my hunter I played through Borean Tundra, moved to Dragonblight, headed into Shalozar and later into Icecrown. Each zone had three or more questing "hubs" that you could choose from, like how Borean had Warsong Hold, The Taunka Camp, the North Camp, the Murlocs, the Tuskarr, the Kirin Tor at Coldara, etc. On my Paladin I went to Howling Fjord, then Grizzly Hills, Zul'drak, and finally Storm Peaks. All of those zones also had many different little questing hubs.


Now let us look at Cataclysm. Hunter, I went to Vash'jir. I had no choice in where to quest because you have to do the Kelp Forest questline before it even opens up the towns in Shimmering Expanse. Then you finally get there only to find the other hub is closed till you do quests leading your through the giant sea shell thing. You finally get to the last sub-zone, but no quests till you do the whole chain that leads to you clearing out the cave with the Submarine. If I bring an alt, I am doing all those quests, no variation, over again.


On my Paladin I decided to do Hyjal, which thankfully had a little more variety at the beginning by letting you choose to go to the Goldrinn Shrine or the Aviana Shrine first. After that however, you are bound to the whole chain leading down the mountain and back up slightly. There are no other "hubs".


After that, on both characters, I had to go through Deepholme, Uldum, and Twilight Highlands. I have no other choices for zones. Deepholme only gives you the chance to deviate by going with the airship quests or the Earthen quests, after that it's all Therazane, though mind you unlocking Therazane in the first place for her shoulder enchants means you have to do both of the first chains anyways. Uldum had a total of two questlines, one for the Ramakhan and the other for Harrison Jones, and neither let you really deviate from the paths. There was no other hubs anywhere. Twilight Highlands also involves an opening set of quests just like Vash'jir, and when you finally get there it once again only gives you two paths of quests, both of which, you guessed it, soon merge up into the same long quests you would get at the end. It's even worst when you may just want one rather "meh" item at the end of the questline, but you have no quick way of getting to it.



Remember walking into Dragonblight on Alliance and being able to choose Star's Rest, Wintergarde Keep, Wyrmrest Temple, or Moa'ki Harbor? Remember also having a small Goblin hub in the north with a decent amount of quests? You could choose to start with any of those. In the Cataclysm zones, you always feel like you have to do the same quests in a row, over and over, with no real variance.


3) It's just a little to difficult (and not in a good way)


I know many WoW players would scoff at me, but seriously, I play WoW to relax after dealing with enough bullshit at work. One of the ways I did this was going into a heroic and having a challenging, but not numbing, experience of taking down a dungeon and feeling like I am moving forward consistently. I may not win the roll, but I knew I was getting points towards something I could buy, and in the end to make my life easier during the dungeons by being stronger.



Now, random groups are basically asking for an hour or more of frustration. You get one guy not properly using bombs in Grim Batol and you are asking to add another thirty minutes to a run. DPS is so low and boss health so high that I spent ten minutes tanking the last boss in Grim Batol. Most of the time, we were wiping due to healers being unable to keep anyone alive for more then two hits, and don't even get me started on mana these days. Even getting some of the gear has not improved it, has not made it really any easier.



I understand the game needs to be a little challenge, but there is a line when challenging moves into frustration for me, even more so when I feel my overall progression is being staled by it. I don't need to progress at the speed of a raider, but I like to know I am progressing in general, and heroics right now feel more like a road block then anything else.


In the end, I just level my Worgen warrior when I have the time and the desire. Got him to 75 right now, might make him the forth character I get to 85, if I can stand the Cataclysm zones again. When it comes to the guild, I am not sure what to do now. I don't expect much luck finding new people due to the level, and I am not sure how many of you may return. For now I am going to leave everything as is, but if the guild ends up just being myself and my wife, I may have to just find another use for it.
 
J

Jiarn

You pretty much described why I quit WoW after having played since Year 1, done realm first achievements for years and raided hardcore.

Was sure I wasn't the only one too.
 
C

Chibibar

I felt that way when I got Cataclysm (both are collector's edition) Played for a bit and felt bleh on the whole thing. I figure the guild level was gonna be an issue in the long run so I quit :( (after 2 weeks) WoW has became work instead of fun.
 
At this time, I'm mostly just burned out on WoW in general after 6 years. I've played it backwards and forwards, pre and post cataclysm. I've seen all the non-raid content, and all the pre-cataclysm content. At this point, the only thing that makes it enjoyable is the interaction with people I know, but playing the actual game is so mind-numbingly samey after 85 levels of the same combinations of abilities, it's more fun to sit and chat, which I can do anywhere.
 
At this time, I'm mostly just burned out on WoW in general after 6 years. I've played it backwards and forwards, pre and post cataclysm. I've seen all the non-raid content, and all the pre-cataclysm content. At this point, the only thing that makes it enjoyable is the interaction with people I know, but playing the actual game is so mind-numbingly samey after 85 levels of the same combinations of abilities, it's more fun to sit and chat, which I can do anywhere.
Same here.
 

Dave

Staff member
I still play daily, but I'm playing one of the toons I moved to a different guild - Fusion. Weekly raids, daily heroics, active level 24 guild. Guild levels destroyed casual guilds, indeed.
 
I'd play if I could find a decent guild. I'd like to roll a new hordie on a good sized RP guild, but they're impossible to find. I used to know some really good ones, but they're gone.
 

Shannow

Staff member
I'd play if I could find a decent guild. I'd like to roll a new hordie on a good sized RP guild, but they're impossible to find. I used to know some really good ones, but they're gone.
The grim on twisting nether is still going strong, I beleive. They have been around since Vanilla, and are a good horde RP guild.
 

Shannow

Staff member
What sucks for me is pretty much what is being said here already. i too have been playing this game since its launch way back in the day.

And honestly, the best reason for playing was the people I was playing with. Most of them have stopped playing, which, at this point, has made me not realyl want to play much more. Sucks, but thats the way it is. My main mage at this point is pretty much completely heroiced out, and has been. unfortunately, all the folks that came back to the game for cataclysm to play...they stopped. We had a good spurt right off, but then the holidays hit, family thigns for all, jobs, etc, and everyone fell off.

With that fall off, I just do not have the desire to play as much. I want to see the raids and content, and have even joined a guold to do so...but since I do not know anyone there like I did before, I just do not care enough to invest the time.

Now I just hop on to putz around on my mage, or once a week on my 85 pally in KoC to work on getting the second binding for my TF to compliment my Hand of Rag. Maybe ill jsut go for the other 2 legendaires too, for shits and giggles. I have a few alts I will probably be leveling here and there, but really, I do not know.




...and also...damn you starcraft 2. playing that as my casual fun game has taken over a lot of the wow time.
 
Now it looks like my lvl 24 guild may fold before long. I've done nearly everything on my Main. If I try to move to a new guild it will be nearly impossible to become a champion again. I have all the gear an money I need until there is a raid expansion. Now I am left doing tedious dailies so I can finally get the last 5 out of 100 mounts and the last 1 out of 25 tabards.
 
Yeah, a couple of months ago, we were ready to finally begin raiding when my buddy who has always been the raid leader up and quit. No one had to chops to fill his shoes. We all quit. IT'S OVA ROCK.
 
I remember arguing with you about this when Cataclysm first came out, but you said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I knew you'd come around eventually.
 

Shannow

Staff member
Just a bump..who still plays, if at all? I am on my mage more and more, now that I am back in an active guild, and having fun all over again with this game. others?
 

Dave

Staff member
I have moved all but 1 toon over to Fusion. My mage has an iLevel of 350+ and I've been the top damage dealer in my guild's runs. I'm raiding, running heroics and having fun. We're on a break this week due to the GM being on vacation (and half the officers are family/friends and are with them).

So yeah, I'm liking the mage a lot more than I ever have thanks to the great advice/support from Fusion members.

What's funny is that I need to create two more toons and get skinning/leatherworking/tailoring/engineering to 525...and I'll have toons with ALL professions maxed out.
 

Shannow

Staff member
Dave, you owe me a transfer! I'll not forget this slight upon my honor, old man! MARK MY WORDS!!!
 

Dave

Staff member
A deal's a deal, man. If you want it I got it for ya.

(Sounds like Nick's prom night!)
 

Shannow

Staff member
Well, I finally just moved my paladin back to my other server with my main and re-faction changed it. Too bad about KoC :(
 
I still play, Corvil on Moon Guard. I'm in an awesome guild, and got to run 25 man ICC for the first time. Nothing like just dinging 80 and being invited to kill the lich king.
 
I actually ran into a KoC in the battle grounds last weekend. But I don't think the player was a member of Halforums.
What the hell man, that was me! I even told you it was Lak! =P

As for the guild again, it's pretty much still just my wife and me. It was a good try making a guild but we just lost to many people, and now with the leveling system, no amount of advertising I do will make us get new members.
 

Dave

Staff member
Nobody wants to join a level 4 guild. If they had it scaled to activity of members it would be better. Example: Guild A has only 17 members but they are all active, it gives them just as much exp as Guild B who has 200 members. Of course, it would have to have limits like "less than 15 members do not gain this perk" so that a couple friends could have a 2 person guild and clean up.

What they did sucks.
 

Dave

Staff member
I've been playing Mass Effect again as I finally get to play Mass Effect 2 and wanted to carry across the character. Guess I'm playing WoW tonight.
 
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