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Anyway, we're all aware that The Dark Knight is a very popular movie and some people love it, some hate it, and some give it a big fat "meh." Though, really, that's any movie, right?

ANYWHO, there are thousands of reviews about it, countless opinions expressed, but in everything I've seen, no-one has pointed out these... "offputting" things. I'm not going into the "ridiculously deep voice" or "modernized Batman" arguments, just things that bother me every time I watch the movie. I think I've seen it 5 times now, and each of these always bring me out of the movie.

So, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, er.. my thoughts. I've been wanting to discuss these with someone since I first saw the movie and I finally said "Fuck it! Halforum."

So let's begin. I'll try to go in chronological order with the movie.

1) The very beginning of the movie with the joker-masked robbers. They can be heard and understood way too clearly. I know that filming and recording someone talking through a mask is a generally awful idea, what with muffled sound and everything, but these voices are just too clear. They were obviously added in post. In film lingo, anything heard 'on camera' is called "practical sound." For example, a radio playing in a car. Even if you add the music the radio is playing in post-production, you make it sound like it's coming from the radio! You add a bit of non-clarity to it. Maybe muffle it some if the characters are out of the car, etc. The robbers' voices are "practical sounds," but they, added in post, are heard just way too clearly, and it bothers me every single time that they didn't try to make it sound like there was a mask over their faces at all.

2) Maggie Gyllenhaal being portrayed as "the insanely beautiful girl." Throughout most of the movie, it's acceptable. She's this moderately attractive woman, Bruce loves her, etc. But then in one scene, it's like the movie is "telling" us she's beautiful, when I personally say, "Um... No.. Not really." That scene is the huge Harvey Dent Fund Raiser party hosted by Bruce, when the Joker bursts in. He plays around the crowd and then spots Rachel, instantly smitten by her "good looks," and says, "Hello, Beautiful.. and you are beautiful.." while making passes at her. At this point, I'm just removed from the movie because I feel Maggie is too "droopy-faced" to be "the" beautiful girl in the movie, especially considering all the super-models at the party. Again, I feel the movie is telling us to believe she's beautiful, when it doesn't present the evidence needed to believe it.

3) The scene where the Joker is setting up the wire that brings down the police helicopter. The policeman riding in the car comments, "That's not good," in typical comical fashion. But then as the helicopter crashes more, he says, "Okay that's NOT good!" And it just sounds WRONG. Like, I can't convey to you the inflections necessary to portray my thoughts via text, but I'll do my best-- The way he says the line sounds as if someone is trying to convince him that it's not good. Like, if he were to say, "This is good," then his cohort turn and say, "No it isn't," and the guy return with, almost sarcastically, "Okay, that's not good then!"

The way he SHOULD say it is as if the situation is getting worse. Like I said, I can't explain it via text. Wait, fuggit, I'ma record me saying the two ways.

http://www.zshare.net/download/6666326140b07e58/http://www.zshare.net/audio/6666326140b07e58/]NotGood.mp3 - 0.95MB

Quick download, just listen. May need to turn volume up.

Anyway, if you watch the scene I think you'll get what I mean.

4) When Batman's Bat Tank breaks down and he goes off on his motorcycle. What the HELL? He goes around destroying peoples' cars, breaking off their sideview mirrors, blowing SEVERAL up just to get them out of his way?? Hell, there were kids in a car VERY near to one he blew up! Like, he could've easily blown that car up! This scene always makes me go, "What the shit, Batman?? You suck and I hate you!"

5) The scene where Harvey Dent's "Two-Face" is revealed. My problem? They purposefully missed the perfect beat to do it. As Dent turns to look at Gordon, it has this PERFECT "OMG we're gonna see his face holy shit..." feel-- the tension is perfect and everything. And then they cut to Gordon's face, showing HIS horror, but we're completely robbed of our own! I honestly feel blue-balled by this scene. Every time! The cut just ISN'T RIGHT. When he finally turns to the camera for us to see, the tension is gone. Going back to the blue-ball metaphor, where the first scene was a hot chick giving you a pantiless lap-dance before suddenly dismounting and walking away, the actual reveal scene is you taking 5 painkillers and a halfdressed cheerleader bursting into the room and demanding your dick, which, due to your recent drug intake, just doesn't feel up to the job.

6) My last 'complaint'. After Dent has threatened Gordon's family and Batman and Dent both fall off of-- wherever they were. Batman is awkwardly clinging to a beam, then falls. This scene already looks "off" for some reason, but it never cuts to Batman hitting the ground, nor does it even play a sound effect to indicate he hit the ground. He just falls, Gordon reacts, and then the movie cuts to Batman lying on the ground. It just doesn't feel right. We "know" he fell and hit the ground, but the movie didn't execute it properly. Something was missing there, and the few people I've brought it up to before haven't paid enough attention to know what I'm talking about, but it bothers me every time.

So yeah, I'm just curious to hear your thoughts. I never see these things brought up anywhere--- mostly because they're very minute things in an otherwise enjoyable movie-- but I just really wanted to get others' opinions on them.

Thanks.

I'm no movie expert. In fact, I'm probably the least qualified person in here to talk about movies (I liked Transformers!). But it sounds to me like these are rather minor nitpicks.

1. I didn't even notice whether the voices were supposed to be clear or not in the bank robbing scene. To be honest, I appreciated being able to clearly hear what's going on here, more than the added realism muffled voices would've offered.

2. Beauty is subjective, though personally I would also say Maggie Gyllenhaal is not my type. However, I would say that the Joker isn't really smitten by Rachel's beauty in that scene. Instead, he recognizes that she's "Harvey's squeeze" and thus threatening her would be a good way to get to Dent. He just does it in his usual dramatic, off-his-rocker way.

3. Can't comment on this one, I thought the guy did fine.

4. Batman's picking the lesser of two evils here. He'd probably prefer to keep other people's property intact, but he recognizes that if he doesn't get the Joker, more people are going to suffer.

5. I agree I expected to see Dent's scarred face when he turned to Gordon, and it did feel like a tease from the director. But it's a minor point, we still got to see his face.

6. I would say this scene was deliberately filmed from Gordon and his family's point of view. They see he's clinging on, they see he fell, but they have no idea what happened next. That sense of "not knowing" amplifies the shock and suspense. I'd say this scene is fine as it is.

Oh yeah, these are definitely minor nitpicks. I am 100% saying here that these do not matter and by no means ruin the movie for me-- they're just things that are "off" to me and bother me -every- time.

While it seems fine to others, I guess, I just feel that if something strikes you as odd or off, then it's odd or off-- that's why you feel that way.

But like I said. Just seeing what others thought.

I don't hate the movie, but the entire 3rd act is a mess that keeps the movie from being great. The CSI bullshit where he pulls the bullet from the wall fragment or whatever the bullshit was terrible. The policeman in the car was almost as bad as "I got to get me one of these".

I watched Mask of the Phantasm last night. Excellent movie my only complaint was how Andrea managed to escape from the Joker in the end.

I have very few complaints about the movie except the gravelly voiced Batman.

Dave said:

I have very few complaints about the movie except the gravelly voiced Batman.

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This. To me he sounds like he's being suffocated by his own mask.

What I didn't like about the Dark Knight was the use of that city-wide computer system radar thing. It just seemed like a lazy way for the writers to have batman find the joker (which is made obvious by the fact that it self destructed after it was used).

They easily could have found a better, less dues-ex-machina-esque way of doing it.

I was wondering if that voice thing was used to hide batman from the same kind of technology he is using. If finding someone by voice location is possible for batman it should be possible for the villains. I thought maybe they graveled his voice to show that batman had thought of that already.

or maybe they are just dumb. I dont know.

makare1 said:

I was wondering if that voice thing was used to hide batman from the same kind of technology he is using. If finding someone by voice location is possible for batman it should be possible for the villains. I thought maybe they graveled his voice to show that batman had thought of that already.

or maybe they are just dumb. I dont know.

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I thought it was just him changing his voice to sound more "scary." See: the whole theatricality thing in the first movie.

I agree that the bullet thing was dumb. And really, the gravel-voice isn't intimidating at all, it just sounds retarded, like he's got strep throat and lung cancer at the same time.

As for Doom's post, the cop thing was a bit too 60's Batman for me but all in all those're a bit too minute for me to remember/have noticed, I guess.

CynicismKills said:

I agree that the bullet thing was dumb. And really, the gravel-voice isn't intimidating at all, it just sounds retarded, like he's got strep throat and lung cancer at the same time.

As for Doom's post, the cop thing was a bit too 60's Batman for me but all in all those're a bit too minute for me to remember/have noticed, I guess.

Click to expand...

I sorta enjoyed the bullet thing, since--while I know that wouldn't really work--I liked that they threw in a reference to Batman's detective abilities.

Well those are all the bigger things people have argued about for eons (read: months), so I was just pointing out the minor things that take me out of the movie.

bales 'gravel gargling' is really the main thing that sticks out for me.

hands up those of you who would be willing to have bales bat-voice dubbed over by kevin conroy.

The voice, well, it bothers me but as far as a real life Batman goes, he's not trying to sound like the leader of the Justice League, he's trying to be intimating and freaky, not to mention mask his real voice so, unfortunately, it works.
As for other nitpicks? Well, any movie can be nitpicked to death, you win some, you lose some, when you get a movie like this that wins on so many levels I enjoy turning my nit pick brain off.

Enresshou;271762][quote=CynicismKills said:

I agree that the bullet thing was dumb. And really, the gravel-voice isn't intimidating at all, it just sounds retarded, like he's got strep throat and lung cancer at the same time.

As for Doom's post, the cop thing was a bit too 60's Batman for me but all in all those're a bit too minute for me to remember/have noticed, I guess.

Click to expand...

I sorta enjoyed the bullet thing, since--while I know that wouldn't really work--I liked that they threw in a reference to Batman's detective abilities.[/QUOTE]

I would call that the opposite of displaying his detective abilities. Kind of like in the newer James Bond movies, where the gadgets are almost too useful. Yeah, they're neat and I like them, but

using gadgets != spying

similarly

using gadgets != detective work

It's quick and easy, and makes us go 'ooh,' but in both cases, the emphasis is more on the tool, and less on the skill of the user.

Kind of way off topic, but just to point out that the far less comic accurate Batman (1989) showed his detective abilities more than any live action movie thus far. His deduction of what the Joker was doing to poison the products really showcased the detective side well.

Yet again proving that Keaton is the best Batman.

I'm totally excluding Adam West pressing colored buttons on his Bat Computer.

I must agree on Keaton´s Batman.

He also struck the most balance between Bruce and Batman, and actually seemed to be the only one who WAS beating bad guys every night, from the casualness and relaxedness when he takes down the Joker´s henchmen.

Bale´s Batman, when he isnt in some terrible darkened "i cant see what happened" or shaky fight scenes, looked like he was entereing the UFC arena against the champion, even when he was just fighting off small thugs.

Not to forget that Keaton also made Batman a grown-up hero. Without Keaton and Burton, Bale´s Batman would probably be punching crooks to PAFF! POW! and BAM!

doomdragon6 said:

1) The very beginning of the movie with the joker-masked robbers. They can be heard and understood way too clearly. I know that filming and recording someone talking through a mask is a generally awful idea, what with muffled sound and everything, but these voices are just too clear. They were obviously added in post. In film lingo, anything heard 'on camera' is called "practical sound." For example, a radio playing in a car. Even if you add the music the radio is playing in post-production, you make it sound like it's coming from the radio! You add a bit of non-clarity to it. Maybe muffle it some if the characters are out of the car, etc. The robbers' voices are "practical sounds," but they, added in post, are heard just way too clearly, and it bothers me every single time that they didn't try to make it sound like there was a mask over their faces at all.

Click to expand...

Almost as if they wanted the audience to be able to hear what was said so they can figure out what is going on... how strange.

2) Maggie Gyllenhaal being portrayed as "the insanely beautiful girl." Throughout most of the movie, it's acceptable. She's this moderately attractive woman, Bruce loves her, etc. But then in one scene, it's like the movie is "telling" us she's beautiful, when I personally say, "Um... No.. Not really." That scene is the huge Harvey Dent Fund Raiser party hosted by Bruce, when the Joker bursts in. He plays around the crowd and then spots Rachel, instantly smitten by her "good looks," and says, "Hello, Beautiful.. and you are beautiful.." while making passes at her. At this point, I'm just removed from the movie because I feel Maggie is too "droopy-faced" to be "the" beautiful girl in the movie, especially considering all the super-models at the party. Again, I feel the movie is telling us to believe she's beautiful, when it doesn't present the evidence needed to believe it.

Click to expand...

You might hav had a point until you mentioned the super-models... sorry, the Joker just wasn't into skeletons...

3) The scene where the Joker is setting up the wire that brings down the police helicopter. The policeman riding in the car comments, "That's not good," in typical comical fashion. But then as the helicopter crashes more, he says, "Okay that's NOT good!" And it just sounds WRONG. Like, I can't convey to you the inflections necessary to portray my thoughts via text, but I'll do my best-- The way he says the line sounds as if someone is trying to convince him that it's not good. Like, if he were to say, "This is good," then his cohort turn and say, "No it isn't," and the guy return with, almost sarcastically, "Okay, that's not good then!"

Click to expand...

Good actors cost money...

4) When Batman's Bat Tank breaks down and he goes off on his motorcycle. What the HELL? He goes around destroying peoples' cars, breaking off their sideview mirrors, blowing SEVERAL up just to get them out of his way?? Hell, there were kids in a car VERY near to one he blew up! Like, he could've easily blown that car up! This scene always makes me go, "What the shit, Batman?? You suck and I hate you!"

Click to expand...

Don't you know who he is? He's the goddamned Batman, that's who... if he doesn't want you dead you won't die, end of story...

5) The scene where Harvey Dent's "Two-Face" is revealed. My problem? They purposefully missed the perfect beat to do it. As Dent turns to look at Gordon, it has this PERFECT "OMG we're gonna see his face holy shit..." feel-- the tension is perfect and everything. And then they cut to Gordon's face, showing HIS horror, but we're completely robbed of our own! I honestly feel blue-balled by this scene. Every time! The cut just ISN'T RIGHT. When he finally turns to the camera for us to see, the tension is gone. Going back to the blue-ball metaphor, where the first scene was a hot chick giving you a pantiless lap-dance before suddenly dismounting and walking away, the actual reveal scene is you taking 5 painkillers and a halfdressed cheerleader bursting into the room and demanding your dick, which, due to your recent drug intake, just doesn't feel up to the job.

Click to expand...

His face had stupid looking CGI, so didn't care either way.

6) My last 'complaint'. After Dent has threatened Gordon's family and Batman and Dent both fall off of-- wherever they were. Batman is awkwardly clinging to a beam, then falls. This scene already looks "off" for some reason, but it never cuts to Batman hitting the ground, nor does it even play a sound effect to indicate he hit the ground. He just falls, Gordon reacts, and then the movie cuts to Batman lying on the ground. It just doesn't feel right. We "know" he fell and hit the ground, but the movie didn't execute it properly. Something was missing there, and the few people I've brought it up to before haven't paid enough attention to know what I'm talking about, but it bothers me every time.

Click to expand...

I heard proctologists (sp?) can help you with that...

So yeah, I'm just curious to hear your thoughts. I never see these things brought up anywhere--- mostly because they're very minute things in an otherwise enjoyable movie-- but I just really wanted to get others' opinions on them.

Click to expand...

Enjoy being the only one with your brand of crazy nitpicking, that's my advice... (though imo the movie itself wasn't all that great, Ledger as the Joker was and people can't seem to be able to tell the difference... and they need to hire someone to do Batman's voice, Bale is awful at it)

bahmv said:

He'd probably prefer to keep other people's property intact,

Click to expand...

The goddamned Batman don't care 'bout no property...

and they need to hire someone to do Batman's voice, Bale is awful at it

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I know just the guy.

These are all some pretty valid arguments, I have to say. Personally, I wasn't crazy about Dark Knight, either, though for some different reasons:

1) Wouldn't at least ONE of these big supermodels leak the media about Bruce Wayne jumping ship and to a plane? Or did Alfred stay behind to kill them all?

2) For being one of the so-called greatest superheroes, Bats doesn't exactly do much that's heroic. I mean, he didn't save ANYONE (maybe the SWAT team tied up near the end) and there was a pretty damn high body count.

3) The voice, as others have mentioned.
4) There has yet to be a good Batman movie that shows off his detective skills. They did a LITTLE bit in this one, but it was near inconsequential.
5) RUNNING FUCKING ZO....wait, wrong thread/movie.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a good movie. But it's definitely more a Joker movie than a Bat one.

ThatNickGuy said:

These are all some pretty valid arguments, I have to say. Personally, I wasn't crazy about Dark Knight, either, though for some different reasons:

1) Wouldn't at least ONE of these big supermodels leak the media about Bruce Wayne jumping ship and to a plane? Or did Alfred stay behind to kill them all?

2) For being one of the so-called greatest superheroes, Bats doesn't exactly do much that's heroic. I mean, he didn't save ANYONE (maybe the SWAT team tied up near the end) and there was a pretty damn high body count.

3) The voice, as others have mentioned.
4) There has yet to be a good Batman movie that shows off his detective skills. They did a LITTLE bit in this one, but it was near inconsequential.
5) RUNNING FUCKING ZO....wait, wrong thread/movie.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a good movie. But it's definitely more a Joker movie than a Bat one.

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Pretty much this.

Maybe its the bad aftertaste of my best Batman story being ruined in Batman Begins, but Batman isnt much of a hero at all.

Comparing that to the DC Batman, where he´s the goddam moral compass (ironically, after the Rha´s Al Ghul storyline that was butchered in the movie version), he isnt pretty much of anything but a bully´s impression of Batman.

Covar said:

and they need to hire someone to do Batman's voice, Bale is awful at it

Click to expand...

I know just the guy.

Click to expand...

Worked for Arkham Asylum, didn't it...

1) Wouldn't at least ONE of these big supermodels leak the media about Bruce Wayne jumping ship and to a plane? Or did Alfred stay behind to kill them all?

Click to expand...

Dude, that's what the drugs are for... keeps them skinny and quiet (they all assume he's gay too).

They weren't supermodels were they? I thought it was a boat full of Russian ballerinas.

Frankie said:

They weren't supermodels were they? I thought it was a boat full of Russian ballerinas.

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It was. He did it to close down the performance that Rachael and Harvey were going to go see that night.

I don't think that is odd that he left them on the boat and no one put together that he's Batman. I mean, he's an eccentric rich guy, what he did isn't really unusual.