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Canadians might remember my posting in the Canadian thread a while back that my girlfriend and I would be going on a vacation to DC and Western Canada. Since I wanted to go to Canada, and she wanted to go to DC, the plans have undergone some slight changes. Because of course.
Anyway, in May, we'll be doing a tour including New York, Washington DC, Niagara falls, and...well, probably a bit of Quebec/Montréal/Ottawa/Boston/Philadelphia.

Her suggestion was:
3N NY
1N Boston
3N Quebec
2N Ottawa
2N Niagara Falls
3N Washington DC.

Now, I already know I'd prefer at least one more day in Washington (she has friends living there, which is why we need to go there, and I want to be able to spend at least one full day in the Smithsonian). I also don't think we need 2 nights at Niagara...and I'm not sure Quebec is worth the detour - going only as far north as Montréal would cut a few hours of driving out.Oh, and since she isn't familiar with how transatlantic flights go, she has one night too many for the time we have
Anyway, there's plenty of you out there, so I was wondering if there were any tips to be had. Mind that I've visited NY and Washington before, but she hasn't. And while I might be able to persuade her for one rendez-vous with some stranger from the internet, I probably can't convincr her to do that every day
Since we'll be doing mostly city stuff in NY and DC, I'm hoping to add in more nature sights/hike thingies for the rest; this doesn't mean I'm not willing to go to the center of the other cities to see something worth seeing, of course

There are different things to see in Niagara Falls in the sense that you could do one day on the American side and one day on the Canadian side, but you could also potentially do those things in one day. Also, make sure you aren't underestimating your driving time, because it's a pretty long drive if you are doing DC last.

Come to Saskatchewan! You can be attacked by visit the doomweasels and recuperate sleep in the barn.

You have to go on Maid of the Mist when you do Niagara falls. Its a boat that takes you right up to the falls. They have it on both sides so it won't matter which country your'e in.

Do the walking tour where you can go under the falls on the American side, the Canadian side is lame for that.

Quebec City? I guess it's OK but you're from Europe right? Nothing to see there. Hope you speak French.

Montreal though? It's worth a visit at most 3 days... though 2 days is enough as it is.

If you need anything, I'd be glad to host and entertain the better places for sightseeing and of course... food.

I can give some suggestions for NYC and Philly, both for big touristy stuff and smaller, not-going-to-break-the-bank stuff, like food and such.

And *ahem* New Jersey can be quite lovely, but we will probably be your pass-through from NY to Philly or NY to DC, because that's who we are: a highway between major cities.

Dude you should, like, TOTALLY come to Central California.
We have . . .
















. . . meth?

Hm...flying from Belgium, correct?

Will you be stopping over in Iceland or Newfoundland for refuelling?

Cheesy1 said:

Dude you should, like, TOTALLY come to Central California.
We have . . . meth?

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Hah! You don't need to go that far west.

--Patrick

LittleSin said:

Hm...flying from Belgium, correct?

Will you be stopping over in Iceland or Newfoundland for refuelling?

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Amongst the routes I looked at, there were stop-overs in Helsinki, Kopenhagen, Reykjavik and Miami (yeah, don't ask me - some operators make seriously fucked up routes) - but none in the Frozen Wastes, no.

Bubble181 said:

Amongst the routes I looked at, there were stop-overs in Helsinki, Kopenhagen, Reykjavik and Miami (yeah, don't ask me - some operators make seriously fucked up routes) - but none in the Frozen Wastes, no.

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WTF. Miami?

And awww.

Bubble181 said:

Amongst the routes I looked at, there were stop-overs in Helsinki, Kopenhagen, Reykjavik and Miami (yeah, don't ask me - some operators make seriously fucked up routes) - but none in the Frozen Wastes, no.

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Yes... come through Florida! We have... umm... mosquitoes?

LittleSin said:

WTF. Miami?

And awww.

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I know, even further out of the way than Kopenhagen was It also took 24 hours, but hey.


Other question: we'll be doing most of this by car. Now, obviously, a car in NY is completely useless. As far as I remember, a car in DC is pretty much unnecessary as well. But car rental places are, of course, at or near the airport. Does anyone have experience, price- and practicality-wise, if it'd be a good idea to only rent a car from the moment we leave NY to the moment we get to DC (or vice versa, whatever), going to and from by taxi, or will it be more economical/practical to just take the car from the moment we arrive to the moment we leave, even if it's just standing still for 3 or 4 days?

Are you factoring in driving time to your schedule? Because you will spend an awful lot of it in the car for this trip, almost 30 hours of pure driving.

That's something many Euros don't quite get about the US. Even though we do have all these wonderful highways, it takes a long ass time to get from one point to another in some parts of our country.

Driving from Maine to Florida takes a good three to four days, mostly due to the congestion around the Boston-New York-Philly-Washington area.

I often complain to my relatives that I am a WINO - Wisconsinite In Name Only - because I don't live in the "inhabited" part of the state. It takes me a half-hour to get to something resembling civilization in Wausau, and another three-four hours to get to my old stomping grounds in the southeastern part of the state.

And realistically? Wisconsin is just a tad bigger than Germany in terms of size, with fewer mountainous regions* and a huge inland sea that we call a "lake" on the one side. To add to that, Wisconsin is 23rd in ranking among area of states. There's 22 states that are larger - in a few cases, much larger - than us.

So keep that in mind.



* - Okay, practically no mountainous regions. I mean, for cryin' out loud, the highest point in the state is only 595m (1,951.5 ft). The highest point above surrounding terrain is Rib Mountain - and that's only 230m above the Rib River valley.

We've had to rent cars/ trucks before, so you're better off waiting to get the car when you're ready to drive. There is non-paid parking in both cities, but it's a fight to get it, and then you have to worry about alternate side of the street parking, etc., and parking garages will cost more than they're worth. You're not going to save any money or aggravation by getting them early. And while I'm not sure about DC, depending on which rental chain you use, not all their locations in NYC are right next to the airport. (Although the ones nearest the airport will be the best price-wise.)

Old Quebec is gorgeous and certainly worth a visit. Speaking French would be awesome but I was ok years ago before I could.

jwhouk said:

That's something many Euros don't quite get about the US. Even though we do have all these wonderful highways, it takes a long ass time to get from one point to another in some parts of our country.

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I've had to explain this to foreign relatives. They were like "Oh, let's drive to New York City and Washington DC!" And I'm like, "That's going to take AT LEAST 8 hours by car." When they asked about LA or Hollywood, I had to break out a fucking map to drive the point home.

A gal who's a moderator on another comic forum I frequent visited the states from the UK. She is now all too aware of how far away things are from each other in the US. She actually came up to visit with me (albeit in the Wausau area) from her "base" in Indiana. It's a good thing she had a fellow forumite who could drive the eight hours up here.

If you ever go to Atlantic city, do not stress on what to eat on the boardwalk as pretty much all the food tastes the same. Also the boardwalk and the casionos are the only real interesting part of Atlantic city, not much to explore.

Now Philadelphia- THAT is a city. Its impossible not to find somewhere to do something. Go to a museum, look at amazing architecture, spend all your money in South street and wonder if it was worth it, plenty of options.

Eh. This trip is 2.200 km of driving over 14 days. My last vacation in tiny little Europe was 5.600 km of driving over 17 days. I think I'll manage just fine. It's why we'll probably cut Quebec in favour of Montréal - takes some 400 km off the total. Yes, the USA is big, but if you go all over Europe, it's easy to drive just as long. I admit many people do have that blindness here, though - many Belgians think I drive "long distances" because my parents and parents-in-law live on opposite sides of the country...220 km apart. Heh.

For endless drives, I think South Africa was the worst. I think we did 5.000 km in 9 days - that pretty much turned into "sightseeing from the car". Of course, that was the intention for part of that trip, too.

I think the only place where it would be worse to drive is Australia, but that's because of everything that can go wrong out there.

jwhouk said:

I think the only place where it would be worse to drive is Australia, but that's because of everything that can go wrong out there.

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Cue "Highway to hell"...

You should totally go out of your way to come to Olympia/Seattle Washington just so I can say hi

Bubble181 said:

many Belgians think I drive "long distances" because my parents and parents-in-law live on opposite sides of the country...220 km apart. Heh.

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There are those who think I'm crazy just because I drive 112km every day to go to work.
Please...I have much better explanations.

--Patrick

Meh. That's what, the equivalent of driving from Milwaukee to Chicago every day?

jwhouk said:

Meh. That's what, the equivalent of driving from Milwaukee to Chicago every day?

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Nah. My round trip is 70mi, that round trip is 185mi, so about a third of that.
Though I will admit that I want to inflict unpleasantness whenever someone whines, "You want me to drive there? But that'll take me twenty minutes!*"

--Patrick
*All drawn out like "TWENNNN-tee MIINNNNNNN-əts."

It takes me *at least* 20 minutes to go anywhere that isn't the grocery store just because of the way Colorado likes to sprawl and keep open space between every town.

PatrThom said:

Nah. My round trip is 70mi, that round trip is 185mi, so about a third of that.
Though I will admit that I want to inflict unpleasantness whenever someone whines, "You want me to drive there? But that'll take me twenty minutes!*"

--Patrick
*All drawn out like "TWENNNN-tee MIINNNNNNN-əts."

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Someone legitimately commented on how great it was that I could handle doing a long distance relationship with my girlfriend. Its a 25 minute drive between our houses at most.

blotsfan said:

Someone legitimately commented on how great it was that I could handle doing a long distance relationship with my girlfriend. Its a 25 minute drive between our houses at most.

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Yah. I handled a long-distance relationship for two years that was 300mi/480km round trip every two weeks, and there were times I might forget something at home, so I would just drive back home to get it (another 300mi). Seriously, a 4-5hr drive for me now is a minor inconvenience, at best.

--Patrick

Heck, it takes me about 15 minutes to go to McDonald's and back.

jwhouk said:

Heck, it takes me about 15 minutes to go to McDonald's and back.

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This man has his priorities straight.

Bubble181 said:

Eh. This trip is 2.200 km of driving over 14 days. My last vacation in tiny little Europe was 5.600 km of driving over 17 days. I think I'll manage just fine. It's why we'll probably cut Quebec in favour of Montréal - takes some 400 km off the total. Yes, the USA is big, but if you go all over Europe, it's easy to drive just as long. I admit many people do have that blindness here, though - many Belgians think I drive "long distances" because my parents and parents-in-law live on opposite sides of the country...220 km apart. Heh.

For endless drives, I think South Africa was the worst. I think we did 5.000 km in 9 days - that pretty much turned into "sightseeing from the car". Of course, that was the intention for part of that trip, too.

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Distance isn't everything, don't forget the difference in speed limits though.. From what I can see, most of your trip you'll be able to go 105 or 110 km/h. It might not seem much of a difference (unless you compare it to Germany ), but with such a large total distance to cover, it'll count.

As long as you guys are thawed out by mid-May, I'll be fine. Even at 105 kph none of these trips are over 6h. Sheesh

I feel like Niagara Falls to DC is longer than 6 hours, maybe I am mentally adding in traffic. I remember it taking 10 or so to get to Maryland as a kid in the backseat.

Google says over 7 hours with no traffic. I'd bet on traffic, at least near DC.

True, 7 hours

Still, "it's a long drive", I'm aware of it. Let's move on. I've driven far longer than that both in Europe and in South-Africa. As long as the scenery is nice (which, considering that route takes you through a couple of national parks, I assume it is) that's no problem.

Bubble181 said:

True, 7 hours

Still, "it's a long drive", I'm aware of it. Let's move on. I've driven far longer than that both in Europe and in South-Africa. As long as the scenery is nice (which, considering that route takes you through a couple of national parks, I assume it is) that's no problem.

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I can't speak for the entirety of the drive Google is suggesting, but if you're going through that part of Pennsylvania, bring something to do. Unless you like looking at trees, it is boring as s***. I've had to drive out there before and there is NOTHING for huge amounts of time.

...And you just described why I'm not in a big hurry to go up to Bowielee's "neck of the woods", so to speak.

"Looking at trees": the whole point of going to a national park. Sure beats looking at McDonalds - Olive Garden - Walmart - Pizza Hut - Walgreen - gas station - McDonalds - Walmart - Pizza Hut - etc etc etc. Honestly, the most boring driving I've ever done wa in Florida - an hour of never-ending chain shop and restaurants. Blergh

"Nothing" is when we drive from Colorado to Buffalo, NY to visit my family and half the trip is nothing but fields of grass.

When the trees are all the same... I mean, ALL. THE. SAME...

No. Sorry.

At least you get to see oil rigs when you drive through North Dakota now! That's something...

Shakey said:

At least you get to see oil rigs when you drive through North Dakota now! That's something...

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I don't know who you are talking to, but North Dakota is pretty far out of the way for me.

Dei said:

I don't know who you are talking to, but North Dakota is pretty far out of the way for me.

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Holy balls I'm out of it today. I was thinking Montana to NY

I think jwhouk is getting what I mean. There's a big difference between "scenic views" and "road & trees". I love nature. When we drive from NJ to VT, my favorite part of the 5 hour drive is the last hour looking at the mountain range in southern Vermont.

Let me explain my reasoning another way: 11 years ago, the friend that was responsible for introducing my husband and I (a mutual friend of him and my ex), graduated college in Arizona, and was then moving back to NY. Since he had to drive back all his stuff, I suggested to Mr. Z that we fly out to AZ and help him drive back. My ulterior motive was at that time, except for a flight out to Iowa to visit some family, I had never been anywhere in the US except the East Coast. What I found out too late is that they planned the drive for the same week my husband had to be back for a mid-term, and the guy had to be in a wedding in NY. So ended up driving, non-stop except for gas and an occasional pee break, all the way back. 10 states we drove through, and what did I get to see? Nothing. Hundreds and hundreds of miles of nothing. (Okay, not entirely true: I got to see the St. Louis arch from a distance.) The route, though the most direct, had nothing to look at past New Mexico. Literally, the only thing I saw besides dirt in Northern Texas was a giant white cross in the middle of nowhere. It was the most boring, bland stretch of road I've ever been on. The "scenery" was non-descript. I almost crashed once because I started falling asleep at the wheel.

The point being, even if it takes longer, look up a route with places to stop and things to see. (I'm not talking about shopping malls and fast food.) If you're taking the route Google suggests from DC to Niagara, I can tell you from experience, because I have family in Hagerstown, MD and central PA, there is nothing but road and trees for a good majority of that trip. It's not really too scenic, and you can go an hour in between exits. Although, if you're a fan of the Civil War, there are some really neat battle sites to visit out that way.

Celt Z said:

The point being, even if it takes longer, look up a route with places to stop and things to see. (I'm not talking about shopping malls and fast food.) If you're taking the route Google suggests from DC to Niagara, I can tell you from experience, because I have family in Hagerstown, MD and central PA, there is nothing but road and trees for a good majority of that trip. It's not really too scenic, and you can go an hour in between exits. Although, if you're a fan of the Civil War, there are some really neat battle sites to visit out that way.

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Well, yes, obviously. 7 hours or so of driving means we won't do anything else that day, which means we'll make detours and fill up the day that way.

We're now contemplating cutting out one day of DC in favor of sleeping somewhere in the middle there, in a random motel (since, in case you don't know, the "stereotypical American roadside motel" just doesn't exist in Europe. Girlfriend's curious). That would allow more "scenic route taking", "finding out if it's worth it to visit the Pennsylvania Dutch", and stopping for war memorials or such.

Bubble181 said:

Well, yes, obviously. 7 hours or so of driving means we won't do anything else that day, which means we'll make detours and fill up the day that way.

We're now contemplating cutting out one day of DC in favor of sleeping somewhere in the middle there, in a random motel (since, in case you don't know, the "stereotypical American roadside motel" just doesn't exist in Europe. Girlfriend's curious). That would allow more "scenic route taking", "finding out if it's worth it to visit the Pennsylvania Dutch", and stopping for war memorials or such.

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I love PA Dutch country. I think it's definitely worth the stop. And try the scrapple! (I also have PA Dutch roots on my dad's side.)

OK. I'm trying to plan stuff out.
Now, http://www.statuecruises.com/Plan_your_trip.aspx claims "All possible combinations with recommended time alotment and latest arrival time that allow for completion.". Sounds great - I'm trying to figure out how much time I need for those things and whether I can combine it with other things over the day....But either I'm going blind, or I'm just stupid, but nowhere on that site can I actually find what they claim. Is it that hard to say "for regular people, you'll need about 2 hours for Ellis Island, about 1 hour for Statue of Liverty, and about 1 1/2 hours ferry time in between, if you are elderly, handicapped or in the company of children, take about an hour extra" or something?

Bubble181 said:

OK. I'm trying to plan stuff out.
Now, http://www.statuecruises.com/Plan_your_trip.aspx claims "All possible combinations with recommended time alotment and latest arrival time that allow for completion.". Sounds great - I'm trying to figure out how much time I need for those things and whether I can combine it with other things over the day....But either I'm going blind, or I'm just stupid, but nowhere on that site can I actually find what they claim. Is it that hard to say "for regular people, you'll need about 2 hours for Ellis Island, about 1 hour for Statue of Liverty, and about 1 1/2 hours ferry time in between, if you are elderly, handicapped or in the company of children, take about an hour extra" or something?

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Because YMMV? Not trying to be cheeky, but that could be the case. My husband's not really a "soaking it all in" person, so he wanders through stuff like that quickly. I like to read signs, take pictures and check out everything, so I take longer. Plus: lines. They don't know what kind of tourist you're going to be.

EDIT: Only an hour for the SoL? Only if the Statue is closed again!

True enough, but still - they even say they'll give a "recommended time alotment". Of course there are big differences, but "for a quick tour, count on at least 15 minutes, if you read everything and go slowly, it's an hour" is different from "for a quick tour, count on at least an hour or so, if you read everything and go slowly, it's half a day".

If you're trying to squeeze as much as you can into the NYC part of your trip, you might be better off taking pictures from Battery Park. If you're set on going to Ellis Island/ Liberty Island proper, be ready for it to take up a good majority of your day, even if it isn't crowded.

When you're in DC, let me know. I give good tour, and I know some great places to get fuzzy and lit.

ElJuski said:

to get fuzzy and lit.

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I have no idea what you mean

The view! How exciting!

I'll be in Chicago until end of July and L.A. after - so let me know when!

HCGLNS said:

View attachment 14650

The view! How exciting!

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Is this discworld?

Or Ringworld.

Halo?

Sooooo....One of you bunch of Canadians might've told me Monday the 19th is a federal holiday. It's the only day I'm in Ottawa and half the city is closed, while the other half will be overrun by Canadian tourists. Oops (might be fun/interesting too, but if I'd know ahead of time, I'd have replanned to spend 2 days there or so)

Dear montrealans. I ordered good driving weather. Arriving at 2:30 am because of your unlit roads with unreflectivd markngs sucks. Also, writing on a tablrt sucks. Nyc was as great as I remembrr, boston was great.

Eh?

Jay said:

Eh?

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Typical Canadian.

Take off!

Dear montrealans. I ordered good bagels. Your bagels sucks. Nyc bagels were as great as I remembrr.

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Read between the lines, @Jay .

Bubble181 said:

Sooooo....One of you bunch of Canadians might've told me Monday the 19th is a federal holiday. It's the only day I'm in Ottawa and half the city is closed, while the other half will be overrun by Canadian tourists. Oops (might be fun/interesting too, but if I'd know ahead of time, I'd have replanned to spend 2 days there or so)

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We seem to have them almost every month. I just forget about them until the week before and I find out I don't need to go to work.

Dear Montreal (pt2). Today the weather was good. However, your historical center is...half torn down to build hotels? The university quarter was much nicer. Lure tourists there. I understand people havi g to pay for the exhibits in the botanical garden but an entry fee for the regular park bit is ridiculous. The olympic site isn't as run down and old as dvertised - it's just a regular old sports complex. The basilic is realy cool though. onwards to ottawa!