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Utterly Ruined: (Spoiler Tags Only)
#1
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
This is going to come from an experience I just had, but instead I'll set up the premise of the thread first:
Something you enjoyed very much: A TV show, a movie, a comic, a game, etc. That you thought "Oh no, when this ends, it better end well...." and then it has SUCH a TERRIBLE and outright SLAP IN THE FACE ending you turn around and say "Wow, that ending completely ruined the rest of it...."
Shegokigo's example:
I just finished the last disc of Deathnote. After loving every minute of it very much, and almost getting ready to call it one of my all time favorite series I saw the way it ends.
As most have come to know me by now, you'll know the first half of why I hated it.
. Now for the extra reason:
Those very last scenes completely destroyed a monumentally fantastic character and someone I had started to admire and enjoy watching on screen. The entire storyline and everything leading up to it, that I had reveled in, was completely erradicated with a few minutes of terrible writing. I was shocked, dismayed and utterly disgusted.
I searched online in hopes of a sequel or alternate world version. Maybe even see if the manga was different, but no. I was left with the horrible taste in my mouth permantely and the series is a piece of trash in my eyes because of it.
Let's hear em Halforumites.....
Something you enjoyed very much: A TV show, a movie, a comic, a game, etc. That you thought "Oh no, when this ends, it better end well...." and then it has SUCH a TERRIBLE and outright SLAP IN THE FACE ending you turn around and say "Wow, that ending completely ruined the rest of it...."
Shegokigo's example:
I just finished the last disc of Deathnote. After loving every minute of it very much, and almost getting ready to call it one of my all time favorite series I saw the way it ends.
As most have come to know me by now, you'll know the first half of why I hated it.
The villain loses
The villain becomes a whiny idiot loser who screams and begs then dies.
I searched online in hopes of a sequel or alternate world version. Maybe even see if the manga was different, but no. I was left with the horrible taste in my mouth permantely and the series is a piece of trash in my eyes because of it.
Let's hear em Halforumites.....
#2
doomdragon6
doomdragon6
Don't have much to add, other than I agree completely about Death Note.
If you just pretend the series ends after you-know-who dies, it's much better.
If you just pretend the series ends after you-know-who dies, it's much better.
#3
Heavan
Heavan
What are you talking about? Everyone knows Death Note ended slightly before the never-explored cliffhanger ending where they introduced Near and Mellow, who totally never had any part in the plot. Ever.
#4
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
I actually thought it was pretty cool to have Light lose in the end, considering it was a story told from his perspective. Most stories told from the Villain's perspective don't have the guts to actually have that happen, instead letting them have the last laugh or get away at the last minute. Light had to suffer the cold, hard truth that he had been out maneuvered by Near because he had spent too much time fulfilling his desires and not enough time dealing with Near. He had arrogantly assumed there was NO WAY he could possibly lose to Near, the child who had to the gall to replace the only person who had ever challenged him in his life... and because of his arrogance, it is my opinion that Light deserved to fall. The Chessmaster is only entertaining when he is focused and winning. Light ceased to be that when he gave into his baser instincts instead of dealing with the problem at hand.
As for Light's reaction to losing... have you ever seen a 13 year old Chess Champ lose a game because he had thought that he was smarter than everyone in the room? Yeah, it looks exactly like this. Light was very immature at heart, despite the facade he put up around himself... much less mature than L (whom he had actually respected and liked... as much as one can their enemy anyway) or even Near, who despite being a mere CHILD fully understood just what he was sacrificing with each pawn he lost. This is especially evident in how he undertook the whole ordeal: It was a fucking game to Light and he acted like it was the entire time. Once he lost, he couldn't handle the truth that he wasn't the God he had slowly begun to think of himself as, hence the freak-out. My only beefy with Light dying is that it was unintentionally hilarious to watch, instead of being serious.
However, I must say I loved that it was Matsuda that finally pulled the trigger on Kira. After spending the entire series watching his friends and colleagues die... after taking it all in stride and not breaking down like some of the other task force members... it was Light's betrayal (the one person he couldn't believe it really was) that turned him from a happy go lucky man-child into a cold blooded killer. It's rare to see someone endure so much and yet still fall in the end. It was... satisfying in a dark way.
As for Light's reaction to losing... have you ever seen a 13 year old Chess Champ lose a game because he had thought that he was smarter than everyone in the room? Yeah, it looks exactly like this. Light was very immature at heart, despite the facade he put up around himself... much less mature than L (whom he had actually respected and liked... as much as one can their enemy anyway) or even Near, who despite being a mere CHILD fully understood just what he was sacrificing with each pawn he lost. This is especially evident in how he undertook the whole ordeal: It was a fucking game to Light and he acted like it was the entire time. Once he lost, he couldn't handle the truth that he wasn't the God he had slowly begun to think of himself as, hence the freak-out. My only beefy with Light dying is that it was unintentionally hilarious to watch, instead of being serious.
However, I must say I loved that it was Matsuda that finally pulled the trigger on Kira. After spending the entire series watching his friends and colleagues die... after taking it all in stride and not breaking down like some of the other task force members... it was Light's betrayal (the one person he couldn't believe it really was) that turned him from a happy go lucky man-child into a cold blooded killer. It's rare to see someone endure so much and yet still fall in the end. It was... satisfying in a dark way.
#5
drifter
drifter
What AshburnerX said
#6
Shegokigo
because that would =
which he wasn't even remotely. The fact that
was testament to how superior he was. Perhaps during his
Though what I can accept, was that
That still doesn't mean that
That was just bad writing in the fact that they wanted to end it the way they did with no better exlpaination.
Shegokigo
Your entire point is invalidated (to me) by admitting thatI actually thought it was pretty cool to have Light lose in the end, considering it was a story told from his perspective. Most stories told from the Villain's perspective don't have the guts to actually have that happen, instead letting them have the last laugh or get away at the last minute. Light had to suffer the cold, hard truth that he had been out maneuvered by Near because he had spent too much time fulfilling his desires and not enough time dealing with Near. He had arrogantly assumed there was NO WAY he could possibly lose to Near, the child who had to the gall to replace the only person who had ever challenged him in his life... and because of his arrogance, it is my opinion that Light deserved to fall. The Chessmaster is only entertaining when he is focused and winning. Light ceased to be that when he gave into his baser instincts instead of dealing with the problem at hand
Near was "smarter" than Light
Near would have had to have been smarter than L
Light outsmarted L in the end
reign as god, he softened up a little and let his guard down, I don't believe he would have "dumbed down" to that point at all.
it wasn't Light's fault at all that he lost, but instead his lackey's idiot move that damned Light in the end
Light would have gone in completely unprepared for a contingency
#7
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY awkward to read. I miss the old Spoiler tags with the mouse over text.
Near was at least more serious about it than L because, unlike L, he wasn't in it for fun. It was a serious challenge to him and that was why he beat Light... not to mention the fact the L kept on the kid gloves during the entire thing. He'd already shown he was willing to sacrafice lives just to test a theory, so what's another body for the pile? Make Light "disappear" and your done. If Misa still showed up as the second Kira, make her disappear too. He clearly had no qualms about imprisoning her with flimsy evidence at best, why not go all the way? It's because L was bored/! He needed the thrill just as much as Light! The two were fucking made for each other! Honestly, L dying was the best thing that could have happened to the world, as it let somebody who was actually willing to end it take up the mantle instead.
Light was never really serious about it ether once he had beaten L, but he started being especially bad about it right about the time he confessed who he was to that girl he liked in college, intending to make her his queen. I mean honestly... how bad could he have fucked things up? It was bad enough Misa found him out, but now he was announcing it to people? What a fucking dumb ass move.
As for Near not being smarter than L or Light... you might be right about that, but he was at least smart enough to take advantage of Light's mistake. You don't need to be smarter than your opponent if he's arrogant enough to believe he couldn't have made a mistake to begin with. Near didn't need to win, because Light had already lost.
That was actually a reoccurring theme during the entire anime: Light never really learning anything anytime he messed up. When L first pegged him down to Japan, all Light had to do was STOP USING THE DEATHNOTE until he finished school and L would have lost track of him. The trail would have gone cold and then he could have moved somewhere else to begin it again. It was really that simple: Don't use the Deathnote for a few months/years and L would have lost him, at least for awhile... but because Light was obsessed with his own superiority, he couldn't see the obvious solution to his problem.
Light was never really serious about it ether once he had beaten L, but he started being especially bad about it right about the time he confessed who he was to that girl he liked in college, intending to make her his queen. I mean honestly... how bad could he have fucked things up? It was bad enough Misa found him out, but now he was announcing it to people? What a fucking dumb ass move.
As for Near not being smarter than L or Light... you might be right about that, but he was at least smart enough to take advantage of Light's mistake. You don't need to be smarter than your opponent if he's arrogant enough to believe he couldn't have made a mistake to begin with. Near didn't need to win, because Light had already lost.
That was actually a reoccurring theme during the entire anime: Light never really learning anything anytime he messed up. When L first pegged him down to Japan, all Light had to do was STOP USING THE DEATHNOTE until he finished school and L would have lost track of him. The trail would have gone cold and then he could have moved somewhere else to begin it again. It was really that simple: Don't use the Deathnote for a few months/years and L would have lost him, at least for awhile... but because Light was obsessed with his own superiority, he couldn't see the obvious solution to his problem.
#8
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY awkward to read. I miss the old Spoiler tags with the mouse over text.
Near was at least more serious about it than L because, unlike L, he wasn't in it for fun. It was a serious challenge to him and that was why he beat Light... not to mention the fact the L kept on the kid gloves during the entire thing. He'd already shown he was willing to sacrafice lives just to test a theory, so what's another body for the pile? Make Light "disappear" and your done. If Misa still showed up as the second Kira, make her disappear too. He clearly had no qualms about imprisoning her with flimsy evidence at best, why not go all the way? It's because L was bored/! He needed the thrill just as much as Light! The two were fucking made for each other! Honestly, L dying was the best thing that could have happened to the world, as it let somebody who was actually willing to end it take up the mantle instead.
Light was never really serious about it ether once he had beaten L, but he started being especially bad about it right about the time he confessed who he was to that girl he liked in college, intending to make her his queen. I mean honestly... how bad could he have fucked things up? It was bad enough Misa found him out, but now he was announcing it to people? What a fucking dumb ass move.
As for Near not being smarter than L or Light... you might be right about that, but he was at least smart enough to take advantage of Light's mistake. You don't need to be smarter than your opponent if he's arrogant enough to believe he couldn't have made a mistake to begin with. Near didn't need to win, because Light had already lost.
That was actually a reoccurring theme during the entire anime: Light never really learning anything anytime he messed up. When L first pegged him down to Japan, all Light had to do was STOP USING THE DEATHNOTE until he finished school and L would have lost track of him. The trail would have gone cold and then he could have moved somewhere else to begin it again. It was really that simple: Don't use the Deathnote for a few months/years and L would have lost him, at least for awhile... but because Light was obsessed with his own superiority, he couldn't see the obvious solution to his problem.
Because he was superior, hence why the ending fails.
#9
Pojodan
Pojodan
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY awkward to read. I miss the old Spoiler tags with the mouse over text.
I dunno, I rather like it
#11
Dusty668
Dusty668
The Entire Star Trek series, Spider Man, and The Stand. I mean sheesh, time travel and a bitty little nuke, sheesh.
#12
@Li3n
.
But Light winning wouldn't be an ending, as he'd just keep going... so him losing was a forgone conclusion... which is prob why they killed L off, coz it was unexpected...
@Li3n
Should have gone with the movie ending, where L[/spoiler]
Your entire point is invalidated (to me) by admitting thatbecause that would =Near was "smarter" than Lightwhich he wasn't even remotely. The fact thatNear would have had to have been smarter than Lwas testament to how superior he was. Perhaps during hisLight outsmarted L in the endThough what I can accept, was thatreign as god, he softened up a little and let his guard down, I don't believe he would have "dumbed down" to that point at all.That still doesn't mean thatit wasn't Light's fault at all that he lost, but instead his lackey's idiot move that damned Light in the endThat was just bad writing in the fact that they wanted to end it the way they did with no better exlpaination.Light would have gone in completely unprepared for a contingency
escapes death by Light's hand by writing his own name in the other Death Note, and he dies later, after catching Light
But Light winning wouldn't be an ending, as he'd just keep going... so him losing was a forgone conclusion... which is prob why they killed L off, coz it was unexpected...
#13
Andromache
Andromache
dear pojodan. you don't need to use the spoiler tags if you wanted us to ignore you, there's a function for that.
/glare
personally, i just cant wait for Bakuman.
/glare
as for the Death Note bit, it was a bit thin of an anime, but the manga makes much more sense. still, I thought it ended well characterization wise. Some people hide their innerselves very well, but it's easy to see in a fit of rage being able to lose it. I'd agree with Shego if Light wasn't a teenager, but at his age, I thought the characterization was perfect. and of course Near was smarter than L, even though the dialogue says otherwise-- because he acted smarter from the get go he was just younger and hadn't had the chance to prove it yet.
#14
fade
fade
I have to agree with AshburnerX. I thought it was a totally appropriate ending. How else would a guy go out when he suddenly realizes that the tight control he thought he had over everything was an illusion? It wasn't even out of character. He came close to losing his composure many times in the series! Like L's discovery of the notebook. He almost freaks out then. I LOVED that he went out as a babbling baby. I thought it was way more realistic than being cool to the end. I mean, think about his motivations. They all fell down around him...he should've been nothing BUT an emotional wreck.
If it's any consolation, according to the creator (I know I've posted this before) the villains won, too. He says that he views L, Near, etc to be as evil as Light. According to him, the only "good" character on the the show is Light's father.
If it's any consolation, according to the creator (I know I've posted this before) the villains won, too. He says that he views L, Near, etc to be as evil as Light. According to him, the only "good" character on the the show is Light's father.
#15
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
I want to say Rat Race, but it's kind of hard to ruin a movie that wasn't really that good to begin with.
#16
ElJuski
ElJuski
Spidey 3!! Spidey 3!!
#17
General Specific
Not, oh, the rest of it? Not Emo Spidey?
General Specific
Something you enjoyed very much: A TV show, a movie, a comic, a game, etc. That you thought "Oh no, when this ends, it better end well...." and then it has SUCH a TERRIBLE and outright SLAP IN THE FACE ending you turn around and say "Wow, that ending completely ruined the rest of it...."
Are you saying that the ending of Spidey 3 was the thing that ruined the movie for you?Spidey 3!! Spidey 3!!
Not, oh, the rest of it? Not Emo Spidey?
#18
JONJONAUG
Near won through plothax. I don't have any problems with the ending, but there were a lot of things that Near did (copying the Death Note, along with every microscopic little thing that Mikami did to it, in a single day comes to mind, along with somehow knowing more about the case than even L did at when he was introduced without any personal interaction with any of it despite Near admitting that he isn't as good as L) that wouldn't have flied in the first half.
JONJONAUG
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY awkward to read. I miss the old Spoiler tags with the mouse over text.
Near was at least more serious about it than L because, unlike L, he wasn't in it for fun. It was a serious challenge to him and that was why he beat Light... not to mention the fact the L kept on the kid gloves during the entire thing. He'd already shown he was willing to sacrafice lives just to test a theory, so what's another body for the pile? Make Light "disappear" and your done. If Misa still showed up as the second Kira, make her disappear too. He clearly had no qualms about imprisoning her with flimsy evidence at best, why not go all the way? It's because L was bored/! He needed the thrill just as much as Light! The two were fucking made for each other! Honestly, L dying was the best thing that could have happened to the world, as it let somebody who was actually willing to end it take up the mantle instead.
Light was never really serious about it ether once he had beaten L, but he started being especially bad about it right about the time he confessed who he was to that girl he liked in college, intending to make her his queen. I mean honestly... how bad could he have fucked things up? It was bad enough Misa found him out, but now he was announcing it to people? What a fucking dumb ass move.
As for Near not being smarter than L or Light... you might be right about that, but he was at least smart enough to take advantage of Light's mistake. You don't need to be smarter than your opponent if he's arrogant enough to believe he couldn't have made a mistake to begin with. Near didn't need to win, because Light had already lost.
That was actually a reoccurring theme during the entire anime: Light never really learning anything anytime he messed up. When L first pegged him down to Japan, all Light had to do was STOP USING THE DEATHNOTE until he finished school and L would have lost track of him. The trail would have gone cold and then he could have moved somewhere else to begin it again. It was really that simple: Don't use the Deathnote for a few months/years and L would have lost him, at least for awhile... but because Light was obsessed with his own superiority, he couldn't see the obvious solution to his problem.
Near won through plothax. I don't have any problems with the ending, but there were a lot of things that Near did (copying the Death Note, along with every microscopic little thing that Mikami did to it, in a single day comes to mind, along with somehow knowing more about the case than even L did at when he was introduced without any personal interaction with any of it despite Near admitting that he isn't as good as L) that wouldn't have flied in the first half.
#19
ElJuski
ElJuski
I meant the third movie as a whole to the series.
#20
strawman
-Adam
strawman
Ah. I see you subscribe to the, "Evil always wins because good is dumb" line of reasoning.Because he was superior, hence why the ending fails.
-Adam
#21
JCM
JCM
You have wasted a second of you life clicking on the spoiler tag above
Yep, another more second wasted
You cant resist it, cant you?
Yes, I am your father
#22
Bubble181
Bubble181
...
Daddy?
#23
General Specific
General Specific
Ok, THAT makes sense.I meant the third movie as a whole to the series.
#24
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Because he was superior, hence why the ending fails.
No, he wasn't. He stopped being superior the moment he started treating it like a game... the only reason Light beat L is because he thought it was a game as well and has trying just as hard to prove he was better than Kira. They both made some really rookie mistakes during the whole thing, where as Near only had problems because Mello was fucking with him during the beginning.
#25
Shegokigo
There was just no rhyme or reason why it happened, it just did because that's how they wanted to end it.
Shegokigo
No, he wasn't. He stopped being superior the moment he started treating it like a game... the only reason Light beat L is because he thought it was a game as well and has trying just as hard to prove he was better than Kira. They both made some really rookie mistakes during the whole thing, where as Near only had problems because Mello was fucking with him during the beginning.
That right there Ash, is my point. The second half of the series was not written well. There was almost no explanation for Near's trains of thought, it was always like "Oh yeah, he's this and this because I say so". He constantly brought up being less intelligent than "L" and with good reason. He didn't know jack. He was just conviently guessing all the time and that I just cannot with good thought accept as the wayNear won through plothax. I don't have any problems with the ending, but there were a lot of things that Near did (copying the Death Note, along with every microscopic little thing that Mikami did to it, in a single day comes to mind, along with somehow knowing more about the case than even L did at when he was introduced without any personal interaction with any of it despite Near admitting that he isn't as good as L) that wouldn't have flied in the first half.
Light was defeated. State of mind that Light was in or not.
No, I subscribe to "If you're going to make a character, build a story around him, create a persona, and then completely write it off in the last 2 episodes, I'm gonna disagree with you".Ah. I see you subscribe to the, "Evil always wins because good is dumb" line of reasoning.
-Adam
#26
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
I can buy the part about copying the Deathnote perfectly, as it's just a Notebook and 24 hours is ample enough time to copy one, especially if you divide the work (One guy remakes the covers, another guy remakes pages 1 through-50, etc). That is perfectly within the realm of possibility, if quite tricky to pull off. It's just going to require some experts on short notice, which would be the hardest part.
As for knowing more than L when he started... all L had to do was send Near his notes before he died and then Near (probably Mello too) would have had months to examine them and reach his own conclusions. Just because they didn't show him doing this during the time skip doesn't remove this as a possibility. If Light can take over the Kira investigation, relocate to a new building, and then build up enough public support to earn himself a TV SHOW DEDICATED TO KIRA AND AN ARMY OF FOLLOWERS, all during a time skip, it hardly seems impossible for Near to figure out some more about Kira than L during that huge window of activity, especially considering Light didn't think he had a master detective after him anymore.
As for knowing more than L when he started... all L had to do was send Near his notes before he died and then Near (probably Mello too) would have had months to examine them and reach his own conclusions. Just because they didn't show him doing this during the time skip doesn't remove this as a possibility. If Light can take over the Kira investigation, relocate to a new building, and then build up enough public support to earn himself a TV SHOW DEDICATED TO KIRA AND AN ARMY OF FOLLOWERS, all during a time skip, it hardly seems impossible for Near to figure out some more about Kira than L during that huge window of activity, especially considering Light didn't think he had a master detective after him anymore.
#27
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Except "L" didn't send them that information, it said so in the episodes themselves. Everything was deleted and the only information Mello and Near ever got was that he was dead. They "guessed" EVERYTHING else with perfect clarity, zero mistakes. Just not buying it
#28
strawman
strawman
You're right, the author is a doofus and shouldn't be allowed near pen and ink again. You should rewrite the second half to match the perfection of the first half.
;-D
-Adam
;-D
-Adam
#29
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
I think the series may have pulled a Dragonball GT to be honest, and therefore I don't blame the author directly.
#30
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Ah, well there you go. NOW we're in bad writing territory.Except "L" didn't send them that information, it said so in the episodes themselves. Everything was deleted and the only information Mello and Near ever got was that he was dead. They "guessed" EVERYTHING else with perfect clarity, zero mistakes. Just not buying it
It still doesn't change the fact that it was Kira who was his own undoing. He had every advantage and still lost in the end because of his own mistakes. Plot device or not, if he hadn't been so arrogant as to announce that he was Kira, he'd have probably lived at least. THAT bit was perfectly in character.
#31
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Oh but I disagree, if
Again, I don't think it was at ALL in character for
There were plenty of opportunities where he was in that state of mind during the first half and still "held back" because he knew nothing was for certain. The fact that
Mikuda had listened like he was told to, Light would have ended everything the way he planned. It was the ONE deviation the Mikuda did that Near "caught on" and everything went south from there.
Light not to have a contingency plan even with his arrogant "I won" state of mind
he let that guard down in the end, was just the writers way of "ending it for the sake of ending it"
#32
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Then it was his mistake to trust Mikuda in the first place. After the bullshit he was constantly enduring because of Misa, you'd have thought he'd figure out that trusting people with his power was not a good idea.
#33
JCM
Not everyone can maintain the rythm.
JCM
I cant blame him though, the problem with Death Note was that it started off damn well, the first volumes were an amazing hard-to-put-down read.I think the series may have pulled a Dragonball GT to be honest, and therefore I don't blame the author directly.
Not everyone can maintain the rythm.
#34
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Fallout 3, Vanilla Sky, The Prestige
Fallout 3 just drove me insane. It was so awesome up until the very end, then they just railroaded you into what has to be one of the most slapdash endings ever. It was worse for me because I had the super mutant buddy, who could have easily fixed everything herself, but she doesn't help because "you have to do it, for your father". It's just lazy.
Granted, they addressed this a bit in the DLC, but I don't want to have to pay to fix a crappy ending.
Granted, they addressed this a bit in the DLC, but I don't want to have to pay to fix a crappy ending.
#35
Denbrought
Denbrought
Death Note ended at the end of the first arc for me, what's this second arc with shitty ending you speak of?
I do hafta say that the anime was a *great* adaptation of the manga, enjoyed it roughly as much.
I do hafta say that the anime was a *great* adaptation of the manga, enjoyed it roughly as much.
Being the author doesn't mean you can't write fanfiction. See George Lucas.You're right, the author is a doofus and shouldn't be allowed near pen and ink again. You should rewrite the second half to match the perfection of the first half.
;-D
-Adam