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Watchmen 2? Oh, FUCK no.

#1

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#more-95

Well, it seems to be happening a lot sooner than I thought. I understand now that this considered a pet project of Dan DiDio, SVP-Executive Editor. That he is determined to impress new bosses by building on DC’s biggest selling comic book of all time with multiple prequel comic miniseries and spinoff ongoing projects.
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Right, you know what? This happens? I am done with DC. This includes the comics, movies, cartoons, etc. There's no way in fucking hell I'll support this shit.

The only exception I'll make are selected Vertigo books, because Vertigo is essentially a separate company with their own business practices.


#2

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Just find some old copies of Charlton Comics...


#3

Dave

Dave

I hope they follow this up with the prequel to the Bible.

2 hours of nothing but blackness. The last second you hear a voice say, "This is boring. I think I'll make a Universe."

Roll credits.


#4

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Yes, because sequels automatically make the original less valuable and enjoyable. Who can blame them for wanting to make more money? And who cares? You can still read Watchmen.


#5

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Not the argument to make, bud. Yes, Watchmen was a result of the Charlton characters, but as a result of some tweaking, it became its own thing. The same happened with Edgar Allan Poe's Dupin character and Sherlocke Holmes. There's nothing wrong with taking some characters and tweaking them, changing them to become something new. The originals may have been the inspiration, but new things can come out of it.

This? This is a blatant money-grabber. Fuck that.


#6

Gusto

Gusto

I guess I'm more curious than anything.


#7

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

The Lovely Boner said:
Yes, because sequels automatically make the original less valuable and enjoyable. Who can blame them for wanting to make more money? And who cares? You can still read Watchmen.
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It's not just sequels. It's prequels, spin-offs, mini-series, events probably, etc. I can still enjoy Watchmen, yes. This is the same argument I use for the movie, since I still firmly believe it didn't need to be made into a movie. I just won't support a company who, up until this point, had respected the work as a self-contained comic masterpiece. When the comic first came out, there was talk of doing spin-offs and such, but cooler heads prevailed.

I just won't support a company that wants to suddenly throw 20 years of previous respect for the book out the window. This is simply not a business practice that I'll support. It's crap like this that I've started to get away from mainstream comics in the first place.


#8

Dave

Dave

The problem is not so much about current fans as future fans who will be introduced to the story by the spin off bullshit. Listen to the kids today talking about Star Wars through Return of the Jedi. They constantly talk about how boring they are and how the stories were better for the first three. It's the watering down of the characters and story that will be a damned shame.


#9

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Exactly what Dave's saying: it waters down the product. Look at Lucas whoring out Star Wars and all the product and novels, comics, cartoons, etc that've come out of that. Some have been good, admittedly, but compared to the original trilogy? Not so much.

You don't see anyone trying to create sequels and prequels to Casablanca, do you?


#10

ElJuski

ElJuski

I was with you, Nick, until you yourself mentioned that great things can come from taking existing characters and tweaking them. Sherlock Holmes was a masterpiece itself, you know. Poe didn't really need to fuck with that, but he did.


#11

Gusto

Gusto

Entitlement is at the core of most nerdrage. I'm just interested to see what they could possibly do with a Watchmen sequel. If it sucks, whatever, Watchmen is still Watchmen. If your average consumer doesn't know that the cool original is more valid than the shitty sequel, that doesn't affect my personal enjoyment of anything. Why get angry?

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing Charlie's fanfilm, Pearl Harbor 2: Pearl Harder.


#12

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

ElJuski said:
I was with you, Nick, until you yourself mentioned that great things can come from taking existing characters and tweaking them. Sherlock Holmes was a masterpiece itself, you know. Poe didn't really need to fuck with that, but he did.
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You've got it backwards, my friend. Poe's Dupin character came before Holmes.


#13

ElJuski

ElJuski

Haha, woops. What the hell was I thinking? :( But my stupid literary error aside, the point still stands. Though I still would never read any new Watchmen things.


#14

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

If people didn't tweak with other's works, we wouldn't have a lot of things. A lot of writers were inspired, for example, by the Greeks. Hell, Shakespeare's work was all inspired by soemthing. Midsummer's Night Dream was inspired from The Fairie Queen, Othello was based from several other plays. Heck, a lot of his tragedies were inspired by The Spanish Tragedy. One of his more original works, The Tempest, had lines stolen right out of explorer's travel logs.

Borrowing, inspiration, referencing and tweaking is part of the literary game, my friend.


#15

D

Dubyamn

I guess I'm alone in wondering what happens after the end of Watchmen. Do the USSR and America link arms and start singing Kumbayah or do they start sniping at each other the first month there isn't a new alien attack. Does Rorshach's journal make it into publication? Do people believe it?

Even if it isn't a "true" addition I'd still love to see somebody's answer to it.


#16

Dave

Dave

Nick...your last post confused me. Are you now FOR the thing?


#17

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Nope. There's a difference between borrowing from something else to create something new...and creating sequels and spin-offs from the original story and characters, most especially without the original creator.

To further that point: if Alan Moore was heading up the project (HAHAHAHA! That'll happen!), I might be a little more forgiving about this.


#18

Gusto

Gusto

I'm surprised Alan Moore would go in for these shenanigans.


#19

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Dubyamn said:
I guess I'm alone in wondering what happens after the end of Watchmen. Do the USSR and America link arms and start singing Kumbayah or do they start sniping at each other the first month there isn't a new alien attack. Does Rorshach's journal make it into publication? Do people believe it?

Even if it isn't a "true" addition I'd still love to see somebody's answer to it.
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There's no way to tell if it worked out in the long term, but there's a strong hint that it doesn't.

Veidt: I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
Manhattan: "In the end"? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.

And I'll bet that exact quote will be the name of the sequel. Watchmen 2: Nothing Ever Ends.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------
Gusto said:
I'm surprised Alan Moore would go in for these shenanigans.
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He's not and wouldn't.


#20

Dave

Dave

I thought it was a prequel. Like talking about the rise & fall of the Watchmen as a team.


#21

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

ThatNickGuy said:
Right, you know what? This happens? I am done with DC. This includes the comics, movies, cartoons, etc. There's no way in fucking hell I'll support this shit.
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No offense, but you will crawling back before the next batman movie, bet on it.


#22

D

Dubyamn

ThatNickGuy;337757][QUOTE=Dubyamn said:
I guess I'm alone in wondering what happens after the end of Watchmen. Do the USSR and America link arms and start singing Kumbayah or do they start sniping at each other the first month there isn't a new alien attack. Does Rorshach's journal make it into publication? Do people believe it?

Even if it isn't a "true" addition I'd still love to see somebody's answer to it.
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There's no way to tell if it worked out in the long term, but there's a strong hint that it doesn't.

Veidt: I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
Manhattan: "In the end"? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.

And I'll bet that exact quote will be the name of the sequel. Watchmen 2: Nothing Ever Ends.[/QUOTE]

And I've always argued that but I'd still love to see it in a comic or on the big screen. Something to mull over with friends, to debate about the assumptions made in the movie the conclusions they formed using the original comic book as a source to debate the merits of something new.

I personally am looking forward to what they do once they are off the training wheels of the original watchmen.

Sure it could turn out monsterously bad but that's true about every movie.


#23

Gusto

Gusto

Green_Lantern;337763][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:
Right, you know what? This happens? I am done with DC. This includes the comics, movies, cartoons, etc. There's no way in fucking hell I'll support this shit.
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No offense, but you will crawling back before the next batman movie, bet on it.[/QUOTE]

Oh snap, Nick, I think he's got you.


#24

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

He doesn't. I'm dead serious about this. If this goes through, I'm done supporting anything with DC outside of Vertigo.


#25

Covar

Covar

Dave said:
I thought it was a prequel. Like talking about the rise & fall of the Watchmen as a team.
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Minutemen. Watchman is just the title

Honestly don't care about this. The spinoffs will suck compared to the original, which is overrated anyway.


#26

Dave

Dave

He stands outside the comic shop, his hands trembling slightly with what he tells himself is the cold. Peering through the window he sees the new books are in. His left eye twitches.

He thought he was out. Now, though, he feels the old familiar hunger gnawing at his insides. I need this, he tells himself. He is both sickened and excited about the way his stomach twists at the thought of holding the comics again, reveling in the scent of newly printed ink. Unable to stop himself he opens the door. The bell rings merrily above his head.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, he thinks. Oh God, it tolls for me.

He reaches for his wallet with shame...


#27

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

ThatNickGuy said:
He doesn't. I'm dead serious about this. If this goes through, I'm done supporting anything with DC outside of Vertigo.
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but, what batman, superman, flash and above all ME, have done anything to deserve to be abandoned by you?


#28

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

If you think DC Comics wasn't in the business of making money for one second of its existence, then I don't know what to tell you.


#29

Gusto

Gusto

The Lovely Boner said:
If you think DC Comics wasn't in the business of making money for one second of its existence, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Yeah this.

DC Comics, a subsidiary of Time-Warner, and parent company of Zuda Comics.

They will take all your money/intellectual property eventually.


#30

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

Dave said:
I hope they follow this up with the prequel to the Bible.

2 hours of nothing but blackness. The last second you hear a voice say, "This is boring. I think I'll make a Universe."

Roll credits.
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Dave, you forgot the part where you're telling stories of what the inky blackness was like when you were God's age.


#31

General Specific

General Specific

The main problem with a Watchmen sequel is who would it be about? Dr. Manhattan is gone, Rorschach is dead, Silk Spectre & Nite Owl are in hiding, and Ozymandias has already achieved his goals for humanity.

So, there's really no one left unless we want to follow Laurie and Dan on the run, which doesn't sound like that great of a movie. They'd HAVE to create new characters and without the brilliance of an Alan Moore running it, I don't hold out much hope for it.

A prequel would be interesting, but runs into the problem of the first movie telling pretty much all of the backstory for all of the characters. I guess you could have some of their missions from earlier that were unrelated, but the teamup of "The Watchmen" never actually happened. I guess it could be another instance when they all teamed up, but I kinda thought the point of the original comic was that it was their greatest adventure. It certainly would not be as good of a story.

So, I will probably be interested in seeing where this goes even if I do not agree with making a sequel or spin-off, etc.


#32

Dave

Dave

The biggest issue I can see is that DC has not promoted this as a mere comic book, but as art & literature. Which is why doing a sequel/prequel seems more like blaspheme than one to something like Superman or Batman.


#33

Gusto

Gusto

Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.


#34

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

Gusto, your ability to make me sad is like knife. Very good.


#35

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Maybe we can finally get Saturday Morning Watchmen...


#36

Gusto

Gusto

Allen said:
Gusto, your ability to make me sad is like knife. Very good.
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Don't be hating.

SAME TEAM


#37

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

sixpackshaker said:
Maybe we can finally get Saturday Morning Watchmen...
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#38

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

Gusto;337845][QUOTE=Allen said:
Gusto, your ability to make me sad is like knife. Very good.
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Don't be hating.

SAME TEAM[/QUOTE]

Hm. And maybe John can discover a color lantern where the key emotion is disillusionment, and it's up to him to take Rorschach down.


#39

Gusto

Gusto

Yup. Jon just needed more powers.


#40

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

Gusto said:
Yup. Jon just needed more powers.
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I think he stalking about John Stewart, not John Jones


#41

Gusto

Gusto

I thought he was talking about Jon Osterman.


#42

Vagabond

V.Bond



Can't wait


#43

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

*sob!*


#44



kaykordeath

Meh.

If the movie had been much more financially successful than it actually was AND if this was from a more credible source I'd be more worried.

As it is, it only elicits a "meh."


#45

General Specific

General Specific

Vagabond said:


Can't wait
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Dr. Manhattan needs more pouches.


#46



Veteran

ElJuski said:
I was with you, Nick, until you yourself mentioned that great things can come from taking existing characters and tweaking them. Sherlock Holmes was a masterpiece itself, you know. Poe didn't really need to fuck with that, but he did.
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What does Holmes have to do with Edgar Allan Poe?


EDIT: Sorry, nevermind, didn't read the whole thread first.


#47

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Gusto said:
Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.
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Each little piece Hurming its way along with a Ring, making shapes that only you, the victim, can perceive. Is he going to kill you as a lamp? A dog's head getting split open? A butterfly? What he seems to you, as he silently flays you, is not what he is to others. Then, just when you think the torment is over, a small, brown fedora floats over the horizon, yet another Ring nestled on the brim. This, my friend, this is your end.


#48



Dusty668

Maybe this time we can get a blue vagina.


#49

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Dusty668 said:
Maybe this time we can get a blue vagina.
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.


#50



Zumbo Prime

Things like this always make me laugh. Not much else to do about it.


#51

Vagabond

V.Bond

Gusto said:
Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.
Click to expand...

Next best thing.


#52

@Li3n

@Li3n

And the reason why they didn't use the Charlton characters like the original plan was is because they would have become unusable after... i guess they where wrong...

And yes, bad sequels do affect the original work, if only by being reminded of the crappy stuff when watching the good stuff.


#53

Telephius

Telephius

One problem with the Watchmen spinoffs and sequals is that Watchmen was mostly about the story and events and the characters were just the pieces in the grand game of power abuse. I somehow doubt the focus of new material will be about serious topics or issues as the main focus but will probably try to focus on the characters above the story. Basically instead of having characters to support a story you want showcase I am going to bet it will be some story to support the characters they want to sell as merchandise.


Also sequels and such can cheapen the original as well. The end of Watchmen leaves you with question of morality. Rorschach was a violent crazy man with serious social perception problems to wards women among other things, but his goal was to punish only those who deserve it and never compromise ones integrity in the face of adversity. Veidt was a cool collected highly intelligent man who wished to rid the world of war but did not care what means it took. He also failed in his egotistic goals to count for time and that he could fool people but people are prone to forgetting lessons. The story was to make people think about having and using power among others things and if they do spinoffs and such they could muddle the original if they just try to flat out answer those question for the view. Then when you try to debate on whether Rorschach was more right or Veidt with someone else and in whatever spin off some viewers could just claim whatever the spin offs decided on was right because its 'canon.'

Then again the may just do prequels and not even touch the original story but sometimes less is more and should be kept that way.


#54



Dusty668

North_Ranger;338127][QUOTE=Dusty668 said:
Maybe this time we can get a blue vagina.
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.[/QUOTE]

And that ain't bad!


#55

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Vagabond;338194][QUOTE=Gusto said:
Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.
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Next best thing.[/QUOTE]

NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


#56



Philosopher B.

They'll think twice about doing a Watchmen 2 when an angry horde of comic geeks show up and give 'em a shotgun blast to the tits in the middle of the night.

But seriously, though, who wants to read a Watchmen comic not written by Alan Moore.


#57

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Dan Dildio, apparently. But he's a goddamn idiot. Him AND Joe Quesada.


#58



Dusty668

A shotgun blast to the tits? That'll settle anyone!


#59

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Philosopher B. said:
They'll think twice about doing a Watchmen 2 when an angry horde of comic geeks show up and give 'em a shotgun blast to the tits in the middle of the night.
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Yes! Because Hollywood always listens to the fans! Just like when Michael Bay promised not to rape anyone's childhood with another Transformers movie!

Oh wait...


#60

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Wait, there was a live action Transformers movie? Man, how did I miss that! I bet that shit would be off the HOOK, yo! There's no WAY they could screw that up.

I mean, an idiot would make it over two hours. A total moron would focus more on human characters. Just make it awesome car chases with giant transforming robots beating the crap out of each other and it'd be great!


#61

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Don't forget the prune juice!


#62

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

...prune juice?


#63

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Gusto said:
Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.
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He's already a quest contact in the DC Universe MMO. I wouldn't put it past them.


#64

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gusto said:
Oh man.

Black Lantern Rorshach.

Think about it.
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If I were a good artist, I'd totally do a mock cover with Black Lantern Rorschach and Comedian.


#65

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

ThatNickGuy said:
...prune juice?
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I think it is a star trek joke.


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