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... after the entire town conspires to prevent them from attending.

From the article...

Why weren't there protestors? Planning ahead by the locals, as it turns out.

From an Ole Miss sports message board, a tidbit of information...

"A couple of days before, one of them (Westboro protestors) ran his mouth at a Brandon gas station and got his arse waxed. Police were called and the beaten man could not give much of a description of who beat him. When they canvassed the station and spoke to the large crowd that had gathered around, no one seemed to remember anything about what had happened."

Rankin County handled this thing perfectly. There were many things that were put into place that most will never know about and at great expense to the county.

Most of the morons never made it out of their hotel parking lot. It seems that certain Rankin county pickup trucks were parked directly behind any car that had Kansas plates in the hotel parking lot and the drivers mysteriously disappeared until after the funeral was over. Police were called but their wrecker service was running behind and it was going to be a few hours before they could tow the trucks so the Kansas plated cars could get out.

A few made it to the funeral but were ushered away to be questioned about a crime they might have possibly been involved in. Turns out, after a few hours of questioning, that they were not involved and they were allowed to go on about their business.
Fred Phelps, the disbarred lawyer and Democrat activist who leads the Westboro congregation, will undoubtedly pursue some form of legal action for the way his people were thwarted in Brandon. Let him try. There isn't a jury in Mississippi which will see things his way.

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I'm sure someone is going to get sued over this, but I gotta admit... this was beautifully executed. I'm not sure if I'd call Phelps a "Democrat Activist", even with his history of running as one, but whatever.

Democrat activist? Anti-gay homophobic religious extremist?

Krisken said:

Democrat activist? Anti-gay homophobic religious extremist?

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The guy knows his base!

Krisken said:

Democrat activist? Anti-gay homophobic religious extremist?

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Yeah, Phelps is definitely a DINO. I suspect he does it because he'd never get a strong following in the right wing camp with his anti-soldier activism.

MindDetective said:

The guy knows his base!

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Sadly, they all live in his house.

Heh.

AshburnerX said:

... after the entire town conspires to prevent them from attending.

From the article...


I'm sure someone is going to get sued over this, but I gotta admit... this was beautifully executed. I'm not sure if I'd call Phelps a "Democrat Activist", even with his history of running as one, but whatever.

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You can be sued for being an asshat? nah. that won't fly. WBC have been asshats for years and no one won a suit against them yet.

Did that really happen? A post on some random message board could be anything.

Sounds like a very Southern malicious act. It is like the time in Palestine TX, some one just happened to burn down the Catholic Church, just as the fire department decided to cut all the fire hoses to practice replacing the ends.

Chibibar said:

Heh.

You can be sued for being an asshat? nah. that won't fly. WBC have been asshats for years and no one won a suit against them yet.

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No, the cops would be sued for flagrant abuse of authority.

SpecialKO said:

Did that really happen? A post on some random message board could be anything.

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Got it from FARK, so I'm fairly certain it's legit.

AshburnerX said:

Got it from FARK, so I'm fairly certain it's legit.

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I don't see the Fark link in the message board mentioned as the source. Where is it?

As far as I can tell the Ole Miss message board is the primary source. Fark just linked to the article from The Hayride.

SpecialKO said:

I don't see the Fark link in the message board mentioned as the source. Where is it?

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The post WAS to the source. FARK was just where I first saw it posted up. It seems to be spreading though and I haven't seen anything to doubt it's veracity.

This is terrible, and abuse of power and vigilantism is still reprehensible even if it's toward people I don't agree with!

White knight all you want, I've got a few cases of beer to ship down Mississippi way.

Vigilante "justice" and police misconduct do not magically become OK when it is against reprehensible assholes.

That someone got the shit kicked out of him for doing nothing but talking makes it much less palatable.

SpecialKO said:

That someone got the shit kicked out of him for doing nothing but talking makes it much less palatable.

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This, and the abuse of power on the police side, make this a sad story. Everything else would have been win.

Won't somebody please think of the assholes?!

Tress said:

Won't somebody please think of the assholes?!

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You know what the Westboro Baptist Church has never done to anyone? Beaten them for saying mean things. When your conduct crosses a line that the person you oppose has not, you're doing it wrong.

I'm really glad you're here to defend them. Especially after I specifically said that it was a good thing one of their members was assaulted. Since I very clearly said that, it's good that you can set me straight.

Tress said:

I'm really glad you're here to defend them. Especially after I specifically said that it was a good thing one of their members was assaulted. Since I very clearly said that, it's good that you can set me straight.

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I don't defend their conduct. I'm saying that much of the treatment they received in this town, including the beating and the police harassment, were not OK. You're the one who is mocking people holding that position. Assholes are still citizens, with all the rights and protections thereof.

Question: How did you intend "Won't somebody please think of the assholes?!", a modified version of a phrase used to mock over zealous moral guardians, to be taken? Because I took it as "oh quit whining, its no big deal to mistreat westboro". Which is, as a position, wrong. There is no excuse for resorting to illegal and unconstitutional means of fighting even the most objectionable of speakers among us. Especially Westboro, who take great pains to ensure they are within the bounds of law.

Sterling rebuttal.

That's the difference between you and me: I refuse to invest in this. I'm not trying to craft a "sterling rebuttal." I'm more than content to let you rail against me without any response, so you can pat yourself on the back on the back and think you've defeated me in some sort of contest or debate. Have at it. Go right ahead.

Fair enough. If you think that violence is a valid response to objectionable speech and that being an asshole means that the police are right to harass you, we don't really have anything to discuss.

You're right. Since you know me so well and clearly those are all things I said.

I recognize you never said whether or not what happened was OK in your book. I also recognize you mocked the people who were pointing out how not-OK they felt this incident was. You subsequently rolled your eyes at a request for clarification. I don't feel that presuming you're in the "this is ok" is a particularly illogical conclusion.

At least we can all agree that the WBC sucks.

I'm with Norris. But only in this thread, since he refuses to take me to dinner.

Well maybe if you weren't such a damn tease... hopping around in your daisy dukes and tied-up shirt with a Tootsie Pop in your mouth. No one eats that many tootsie pops.

Sorry, white knights, but the dumbass who mouthed off must have failed the WBC's mandatory legal training. There's the "fighting words" defense, and just about everything the WBC says or does would "tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace".

In other words, if you say something you know is gonna get your ass kicked, and then you do get your ass kicked, the law will sometimes say "you had it coming. Next case."

I think the term white knight is overused, and doesn't even fit here. The wbc is a terrible organization, and I'm filled with glee every time one of their pickets is stopped. I just don't want to see people sink lower than them to do it.

DarkAudit said:

Sorry, white knights, but the dumbass who mouthed off must have failed the WBC's mandatory legal training. There's the "fighting words" defense, and just about everything the WBC says or does would "tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace".

In other words, if you say something you know is gonna get your ass kicked, and then you do get your ass kicked, the law will sometimes say "you had it coming. Next case."

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From your own gorram link, as of 1969 the court had concluded that

Emphasizing that the mere offensiveness of words does not strip them of constitutional protection, the Court again noted that fighting words must present an actual threat of immediate violence, not merely offensive content.

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and in 1972,

redefining fighting words as only those "personally abusive epithets which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, are, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke violent reactions." The Court reasoned that because Cohen's statement was not an insult directed toward a particular individual, it could not be regulated as fighting words.

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Now, we don't know what was said in that gas station. However, Westboro's standard commentary has yet to be curtailed under the fighting words doctrine. Additionally, "fighting words" is the kind of thing that should be considered by a prosecutor examining the case or a defense attorney laying out his defense. Deciding whether certain comments preceding an assault counted as "fighting words" is decidedly outside the job description of gas station employees and customers. Likewise, it is (as I understand it) a defense or something that can be prosecuted, not a blank check for ass whoopings.

Offering my facebook shoulder to cry on to a friend I haven't really spoken to in years because she posted some "people suck" statuses? That was me white knighting. Standing up and saying "vigilante justice and police misconduct are wrong regardless of who is the victim, especially that victim doesn't perpetrate violence or illegal activity themselves"? Not white knighting. It shouldn't even be that fucking radical. The Westboro Baptist Church, reprehensible fucks that many of them are, follow the laws regarding protests and protected speech to the letter. They comply with lawful police requests. They commit no known acts of violence against anyone. They say really mean things. And this town responded with a vigilante beat down and police harassment. They sunk lower than WBC. That. Isn't. Cool.

Cajungal said:

At least we can all agree that the WBC sucks.

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A-fucking-men sister. Libby Phelps and Josh Phelps-Roper are my heroes. Calling out their family on their bullshit.

Why didn't they just charge them with disorderly conduct? Isn't that the catch all for people being a public nuisance?

Krisken said:

Why didn't they just charge them with disorderly conduct? Isn't that the catch all for people being a public nuisance?

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Because bringing questionable prosecution against a family that owns a successful (yeah, I know how it sounds, but it is) law firm that (if I recall Josh and Libby correctly) does criminal defense is a bad idea of the highest order.

WBC is pushing the letter of the law to the limit but all their acts are within the law.

Now, if a funeral ground is a private ground and they trespass, that is a different story.

Norris said:

Fair enough. If you think that violence is a valid response to objectionable speech and that being an asshole means that the police are right to harass you, we don't really have anything to discuss.

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It is. That's why people like to run their mouths on the internet. There's less risk of getting popped in the jaw. Words are powerful tools, but in the end it's the sword that ends the disagreement. Why the hell do you think countries go to war? Violence is the end resolution for when words and reasoning fail. You can't reason with WBC.

Buzz Aldrin hitting that guy really isn't a good example. For one thing, police actually got involved, as they should have.

Buzz Aldrin didn't lie to the police to cover up what he had done. Buzz Aldrin did not "beat down" Bart Sibrel, he punched him once. There is something incredibly satisfying about that punch, but it does make it the legal thing to do (or even the best response).

Compare
The Buzz Aldrin Punch: police and prosecutors investigated the incident, decided it was not worth prosecuting based on eye witness testimony.

The Westboro Beating: the police are told that no one saw anything, police stop investigating.

Look, all I'm saying is that if you "nah nah nana boo boo" enough to someone's face, you will get popped in yours. It's the default human response. WBC does this on a professional level (yes, they get money from it). They're abusing the laws in places for profit. In my mind, that absolves police from having to give a fuck.

No Mathias, they're following the law and everything in this world is black and white. There is no such thing as a grey area. Stop trying to have common sense. It has no place in this discussion.

Mathias said:

Look, all I'm saying is that if you "nah nah nana boo boo" enough to someone's face

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So you know what was said in that gas station, then?

It's the default human response.

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Which is one of the many reasons why we have cops.

Jiarn said:

No Mathias, they're following the law and everything in this world is black and white. There is no such thing as a grey area. Stop trying to have common sense. It has no place in this discussion.

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Not black and white, but we do have these things called "laws". These laws lay out what is acceptable or unacceptable in our society. These laws state that, short of defense, you aren't allowed to use force on another human being. The government can create, under very vague-yet-narrow circumstances, restrictions against "fighting words". The WBC does not rise to the level of fighting words. If you attack a member of the WBC over what they say, that might be your natural human response and almost no jury in the world will convict you regardless of how slam dunk the case against you is. But you still broke the law and you still desrve the consequences. This is the real world, where vigilante justice is never OK.

Mathias said:

Look, all I'm saying is that if you "nah nah nana boo boo" enough to someone's face, you will get popped in yours. It's the default human response. WBC does this on a professional level (yes, they get money from it). They're abusing the laws in places for profit. In my mind, that absolves police from having to give a fuck.

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No, they don't. Libby Phelps and Josh Phelps-Roper, both of whom have left the family and disowned their political/religious doctrine as abhorrent, maintain that the Phelps Families make their money off their actual jobs and view any lawsuits resulting from interference in their protests as protection of their rights. They really believe the horrible shit they say and truly believe that their protests are morally imperative proselytizing. They even make the older kids get jobs and pay their own way for the protest trips. I've seen estimates that in the last fifteen years they have made about 1/10th of one year's protest costs off of lawsuits. If the plan was to create causes for legal action for the purpose of profit, they fail at it. Incredibly hard. The "only in it for the cash" things is little more than a conspiracy theory, up there with birthers and truthers.

And even if it was true, the police don't get to pick and choose what victims they help. Police forces do not work they way, they can't work that way.

From the Official Code of Georgia, Annotated (Bold text for emphasis, mine)

16-11-39:
(a) A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when such person commits any of the following:
(1) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby such person is placed in reasonable fear of the safety of such person´s life, limb, or health;
(2) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby the property of such person is placed in danger of being damaged or destroyed;
(3) Without provocation, uses to or of another person in such other person´s presence, opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will, when used to or of another person in such other person´s presence, naturally tend to provoke violent resentment, that is, words commonly called 'fighting words'; or
(4) Without provocation, uses obscene and vulgar or profane language in the presence of or by telephone to a person under the age of 14 years which threatens an immediate breach of the peace.
(b) Any person who commits the offense of disorderly conduct shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) This Code section shall not be deemed or construed to affect or limit the powers of counties or municipal corporations to adopt ordinances or resolutions prohibiting disorderly conduct within their respective limits.

This does not specify the nature of the "fighting words" that would incite a breach of the peace - this merely states that uttering such words, of an opprobrius or abusive nature (target non-specific) would incite a breach of the peace. In other words, statements don't HAVE to be directed at a particular party - they could be directed towards a certain group or entity.

To illustrate: were this hypothetical individual enter into an establishment and state something to the effect of "God hates n*****s, and they will all burn," then that would UNDOUBTEDLY result in a breach of the peace - more than that, depending on where it's uttered.

As a law enforcement officer, I would have no remorse in charging the "victim" in this instance with disorderly conduct, under either the Georgia Code or the Savannah City ordinance for the same, and sending them to jail.

However, I would also be obliged to place the other individual under arrest for either simple battery, battery, or aggravated battery, depending on the nature of his injuries. Alternately, I could charge both parties with Affray, which amounts to fighting in a public place.

TL;DR: both parties are guilty of a crime, as established within the confines of a codified set of laws. No miscarriage of justice there.

With regards to holding the other subjects for questioning in an incident - not outside the confines of credibility to believe that they might have knowledge of an incident... but only if some others were questioned for a similar duration. Otherwise, there may have been more than a little stretching of police authority. HOWEVER: at no point were they under arrest, therefore there was no violation of their 4th Amendment rights.

Thanks for the info, O_C!

As far as the situation has been reported (guy beaten badly, but there are "no witnesses"), how would you have proceeded? Complete hypothetical, of course.

No witnesses, and no suspect information? Write up a battery report, tell him where to get a copy. With no information to go on, this would be more for information than anything else: you can't secure a warrant on John Doe, after all.