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http://www.usatoday.com/news/religi...supreme-court/50642624/1?csp=YahooModule_News

A case that is up to the Supreme court regarding fairness of employment in these religious education.
summary: basically many teachers are fired for various reason. Some of the teacher believe it was from sexual discrimination, harassment, etc, BUT the religious institution label these people "ministers" group so the government/judicial do not have a saying in it.

The interesting part that these religious institution suddenly consider FEMALE teachers to be minister to avoid lawsuit but normally don't ordain ANY female minister to their order.

(hence the murkier part)
It is a slippery slope. Working in Education, I believe that everyone should be treated fairly, but in religious school they are exempt from many things do you think this apply also?

If the Supreme Court rule in favor of the teachers, equality for all but that means government have cross the line in "Separation of church and states"

"The cook in the kosher cafeteria of a Jewish day school, the school nurse in a Catholic middle school, or the recess monitor in a Christian elementary school arguably all have a role in spreading religious values," Friedman wrote.

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It basically comes down to:

* Are religions allowed to hire and fire employees based on intangible religious values, which may or may not include attributes society generally accepts as discriminatory?

I think the very definition of religion and religious freedom requires that groups determine their own constitution of members, let alone employees.

stienman said:

It basically comes down to:

* Are religions allowed to hire and fire employees based on intangible religious values, which may or may not include attributes society generally accepts as discriminatory?

I think the very definition of religion and religious freedom requires that groups determine their own constitution of members.

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So basically while outside of religious institution, we have equal rights, but inside the institution, your right is base on your faith's rules?

Would this cover under religion base business?

There has to be a line somewhere. Obviously a religion cannot remove a person's right to life, so there are some human rights that we should not allow religions leeway on.

I think you have to be more specific when you say "religion based business". Is the business itself a religion, or is it owned and operated by a religion, or is it owned by someone who follows a certain religion?

What are the requirements to be counted as a religion?

Chibibar said:

So basically while outside of religious institution, we have equal rights, but inside the institution, your right is base on your faith's rules?

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From what little I understand, as long as those faith's rules do not violate criminal law, this is correct.

What SpecialKO and steinman said. Separation of church and state has to be respected here, meaning religious institutions have to be allowed to do whatever they want (so long as it doesn't violate criminal law).

Tress said:

What SpecialKO and steinman said. Separation of church and state has to be respected here, meaning religious institutions have to be allowed to do whatever they want (so long as it doesn't violate criminal law).

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Pretty much.

So I guess at this time since discrimination/sexual harassment are a civil law then the religious institution can do that.
Kinda feel sorry for all those teachers but I guess the silver lining is that the future/new teachers/work knows that unless you are devoted to that belief, you are not going to be protected by laws like other institutions.

Chibi, I'm kind of confused here. You want religious institutions (and lets be clear, this covers ALL religions, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc) to be forced by the government to hire people outside their religion/religious values/ideals? You think thats in line with freedom of religion or that it ought to trump it? I'm just trying to make sure I get what you want done here.

Espy said:

Chibi, I'm kind of confused here. You want religious institutions (and lets be clear, this covers ALL religions, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc) to be forced by the government to hire people outside their religion/religious values/ideals? You think thats in line with freedom of religion or that it ought to trump it? I'm just trying to make sure I get what you want done here.

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Nope! you got confuse.

I want people to be treated fair.
example.
A Christian lady was hired in a Christian school. She is sexually harass. She complain to the "head person" (I don't know the hierarchy name) . She is promptly fired. She is filing a lawsuit for improper dismissal. The school deemed her minister so she CAN'T contest the firing.

This to me is not fair.

I am NOT advocating that school REQUIRE to hire any OTHER denomination that does not relate to the religious school.

Chibibar said:

A Christian lady was hired in a Christian school. She is sexually harass. She complain to the "head person" (I don't know the hierarchy name) . She is promptly fired. She is filing a lawsuit for improper dismissal. The school deemed her minister so she CAN'T contest the firing

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When you put it like that, sans other details, she probably can't do anything about it. Unless she had some legal contract saying otherwise, they can fire her for whatever they want. She might still be able to sue for sexual harassment, though.

Oh gotcha, alright, yeah thats pretty damn sketchy. I don't think anyone here would be alright with that.