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Which is the least likely minority to be elected President of the USA?

#1

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

The question is a little convoluted, so let me try to explain. If you pick "Woman", then you think the USA would sooner elect every other "type" up there to President, BEFORE a woman. And for the sake of keeping it simple, assume each adjective is the only thing different from "normal". For example, if you pick "atheist", assume said candidate is married, white, rich, male, etc otherwise. If I left out some minority, I sincerely apologize.


#2

Dave

Dave

Whoa. Interesting question. Remember that they didn't want to elect Kennedy because he was Catholic! Personally, I think Muslim or Transsexual are the two biggest bets because it would be hard for them to overcome prejudice from right wing nutjobs or homophobes, respectively.

We've spent too much time promoting anti-Muslim agendas to switch to that.

Personally I'd like to see an Atheist get elected. That way everyone is represented equally, not just Christians for a change.


#3

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

My vote was very close between Atheist and Transsexual. But I think a bigger issue with Transsexuals is just the general populace not being educated or knowing anything about them. People know what an Atheist is, and still thinks they are completely subhuman beasts for the most part.


#4

Dave

Dave

Charlie Dont Surf said:
My vote was very close between Atheist and Transsexual. But I think a bigger issue with Transsexuals is just the general populace not being educated or knowing anything about them. People know what an Atheist is, and still thinks they are completely subhuman beasts for the most part.
Click to expand...
I think that might be a bit off base because there are more and more Atheists every year and more people who associate themselves with at least Agnostic beliefs. However, there isn't a large transsexual population who have lobbyists or anything more visible than the gay pride parades - and we all know how those work to help the cause. :rolleyes:


#5



WolfOfOdin

I'm going to have to go with Athiest

The majority of 'moral' America sees Athiests as depraved, hedonistic monsters that are screaming in vain agaisnt their coming punishment. I know that's not true, the GF's an athiest and possibly the sweetest human being on the face of the world, but in the US it's seen as akin to having horns and fangs.

It isn't helped, mind you by people like Richard Dawkins, who while a very intelligent man, is a boorish misanthrope who seems to openly sneer at the idea of holding a belief in something else. Keeping with that, whenever we hear about 'an Athiest did X" on the news, it's invariably some self-important jack-ass protesting something simple.

Muslim is a close second though, remember the raving insanity that happened when there was a Muslim congressman elected?


#6

@Li3n

@Li3n

Transsexuals, then women... i kept telling people that Hillary didn't have a chance, even against a black guy...


WolfOfOdin said:
I know that's not true, the GF's an athiest and possibly the sweetest human being on the face of the world,
Click to expand...
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#7

Shakey

Shakey

Has a transsexual held any significant office in the US yet? We've had every other minority hold at least a US Senate or House seat.


#8



rabbitgod

Definitely Transsexual. People have the hardest time wrapping their minds around it. All the bullshit you have to go through just to be a citizen, I can't even imagine what it's like to also run for office.


#9

Jake

Jake

We already have a muslim president, dumbasses.


#10

Dave

Dave

Jake said:
We already have a muslim president, dumbasses.
Click to expand...
/thread


#11

Krisken

Krisken

Dave;330221][QUOTE=Jake said:
We already have a muslim president, dumbasses.
Click to expand...
/thread[/QUOTE]
Does he win the thread because of the avatar? :laugh:


#12



Chazwozel

No matter how progressive and open minded our society gets, I just can't ever see a Tranny ever being able to garner political support enough to pull off a presidency run.


#13

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Chazwozel said:
see a Tranny .
Click to expand...
thanks for this


#14

Espy

Espy

I don't honestly see a transexual person nor a muslim winning anytime in the near future. I don't see them running either though so... you know.


#15

@Li3n

@Li3n

Shakey said:
Has a transsexual held any significant office in the US yet? We've had every other minority hold at least a US Senate or House seat.
Click to expand...

I believe they just announced one last week, but they weren't sure if she really was the first... which is hilarious.

Oh, it's just something in the Dept. of Commerce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Simpson


But the muslim stuff is just the current hysteria, once it's over they'll have a better chance then a woman, as long as they're not too in your face about not being a christian.


#16

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

You know, I might be wrong, the leading vote-getter is the only one to be openly and unironically called a slur in this thread so far....


#17

Adam

Adammon

The Lovely Boner said:
You know, I might be wrong, the leading vote-getter is the only one to be openly and unironically called a slur in this thread so far....
Click to expand...
Report it then.


#18

Dave

Dave

For some reason I think one of the admins might take offense...


#19

Baerdog

Baerdog

Charlie, you forgot to put gingers on the poll. Does America really want to elect a president without a soul? No, I don't think so.


#20

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Unless something has changed drastically in the last 10 years, women are the majority. 1434/1381 women to men ratio in the US in 2000.


#21



rabbitgod

Baerdog7 said:
Charlie, you forgot to put gingers on the poll. Does America really want to elect a president without a soul? No, I don't think so.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, we don't mention those people here.


#22

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Frankie said:
Unless something has changed drastically in the last 10 years, women are the majority. 1434/1381 women to men ratio in the US in 2000.
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That might be true, but as far as positions of power, they're firmly the minority.


#23

Adam

Adammon

Dave said:
For some reason I think one of the admins might take offense...
Click to expand...
Which one? The Muslim transexual or the old guy?


#24



JONJONAUG

Homosexuals and atheists are the two groups of people least likely to be elected president according to polls (although the source is USA Today and I'm not sure how "accurate" these numbers are), but both had around 50% of the people polled saying they would not vote for a homosexual or an atheist (the two categories are not necessarily inclusive).


#25

phil

phil

My first thought would be transsexual, just because I don't think a lot of people could get past it, and their own community is just too small to have that much sway.


#26

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Adammon;330377][QUOTE=Dave said:
For some reason I think one of the admins might take offense...
Click to expand...
Which one? The Muslim transexual or the old guy?[/QUOTE]

Zing.


#27



Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner said:
You know, I might be wrong, the leading vote-getter is the only one to be openly and unironically called a slur in this thread so far....
Click to expand...
Since when is tranny a slur?


#28

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Chazwozel;330458][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
You know, I might be wrong, the leading vote-getter is the only one to be openly and unironically called a slur in this thread so far....
Click to expand...
Since when is tranny a slur?[/QUOTE]

Since it is? I can't quote you a date or anything.


#29



Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner;330467][QUOTE=Chazwozel;330458][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
You know, I might be wrong, the leading vote-getter is the only one to be openly and unironically called a slur in this thread so far....
Click to expand...
Since when is tranny a slur?[/QUOTE]

Since it is? I can't quote you a date or anything.[/QUOTE]

But it's not. It's just me being lazy not wanting to type out transexual or transvestite. White knighting again are we?


#30

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

yeah and jap is okay since it's just shorthand for japanese, chink, paki, ***, homo, these are all things you can say in polite company when you're a stupid asshole!!!


#31

Bowielee

Bowielee

I went with Transexual. I do think that a female to male transexual would have a better shot than a male to female transexual, though. For some reason people are way less weirded out by lesbianism than by male homosexuality. Also, male to female transexuals mix both homophobia and sexism at the same time.


#32



Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner said:
yeah and jap is okay since it's just shorthand for japanese, chink, paki, ***, homo, these are all things you can say in polite company when you're a stupid asshole!!!
Click to expand...
Describing a person as a 'tranny' is the same as calling an African American, 'black'. So just relax your pasty, overly PC self.

“We are obsessed with trying find areas where we get offended. And people who identify as being victims have a hard time accepting a new identity. They hold their ‘victim identity’ in place. And they continue to look for people or organizations where they can point their finger at and, in essence, confirm their victimhood. -- RuPaul

I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but you already have a 10 inch metal rod shoved up your ass. I have NEVER heard the word tranny used in a derogatory way to describe a transexual other than as a descriptor.


#33

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

You don't know what you're talking about. I don't care. Keep calling people tranny.


#34



Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner said:
You don't know what you're talking about. I don't care. Keep calling people tranny.
Click to expand...
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/rfhtklhkvj--The-40-Year-Old-Virgin-Seth-Rogen-Cal-Tranny


#35

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

The Lovely Boner said:
You don't know what you're talking about. I don't care. Keep calling people, tranny.
Click to expand...
Fixed.


#36



crono1224

I didn't know tranny was a slur, also isn't it more of an abbrv.


#37

Bowielee

Bowielee

Tranny is actually a derogatory term for a transvestite, which is NOT a transexual.

Transvestites are men who get sexual pleasure from dressing as women. Transexuals are persons of either gender who identify as the opposite gender. So, even his slur was wrong.


#38



Cuyval Dar

Would have voted ginger.


EDIT:Oh, shit, wasn't Jefferson a ginger?


#39

Adam

Adammon

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tranny

# (pejorative, slang) A transgender person
# (colloquial) Short form of transgender or transsexual.

Your definition needs updating.


#40



Chazwozel

Cuyval Dar said:
Would have voted ginger.


EDIT:Oh, shit, wasn't Jefferson a ginger?
Click to expand...
I will not stand for slurs against Conan!

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#41

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

He'd only see the White House as a Vice-President to Leno.


#42



Chazwozel

If any transgendered folk around here are offended by the use of the word tranny, I won't use it. But I'm not going to feel bad because buttfuck Charlie is on a mission from God to eliminate all forms of slang and usage of words unfamiliar to him from the English language.


#43

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Chazwozel said:
If any transgendered folk around here are offended by the use of the word tranny, I won't use it. But I'm not going to feel bad because buttfuck Charlie is on a mission from God to eliminate all forms of slang and usage of words unfamiliar to him from the English language.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:


#44



Dusty668

If I was going to pick an answer on my own it would have been "Honest".


#45



Soliloquy

Dusty668 said:
If I was going to pick an answer on my own it would have been "Honest".
Click to expand...
It's not a minority if it doesn't actually exist.


#46



Dusty668

Well Diogenes, yer gonna need a bigger lantern...


#47



JCM

Midgets.


#48



Chazwozel

JCM said:
Midgets.
Click to expand...

Careful with that slurring. They prefer to be called Little People.


#49



JCM

Chazwozel;331138][QUOTE=JCM said:
Midgets.
Click to expand...

Careful with that slurring. They prefer to be called Little People.[/QUOTE]Okay then, Gimlies?


#50



Chibibar

I saw Asian Female will the be LAST person be allow in the White house. Yes I believe Homosexual and transsexuals will be allow first before Asian Female (or even male)


#51

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Chibibar said:
I saw Asian Female will the be LAST person be allow in the White house. Yes I believe Homosexual and transsexuals will be allow first before Asian Female (or even male)
Click to expand...
Why do you think that? Did some major legislation pass that explicitly discriminates against asian people recently?


#52



makare

I don't know about society as a whole, transgendered is probably right. Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.


#53

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?


#54

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

The Lovely Boner;331219][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?[/QUOTE]

I think it's the public perception that anyone who is an Atheist is incapable of believing in ANYTHING, not just religion.


#55

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

AshburnerX;331227][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;331219][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?[/QUOTE]

I think it's the public perception that anyone who is an Atheist is incapable of believing in ANYTHING, not just religion.[/QUOTE]

Well that's a huge load of moronic bullshit


#56



Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner;331215][QUOTE=Chibibar said:
I saw Asian Female will the be LAST person be allow in the White house. Yes I believe Homosexual and transsexuals will be allow first before Asian Female (or even male)
Click to expand...
Why do you think that? Did some major legislation pass that explicitly discriminates against asian people recently?[/QUOTE]


Well for one thing all she'd do is pressure the presidential children to marry and make grandbaby [sic].


#57



makare

The Lovely Boner;331219][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?[/QUOTE]

I only vote for people who think the way I do. Having faith in something beyond myself is so essential to my way of thinking that I couldn't vote for someone who didn't have that faith.


#58



Chazwozel

makare1;331238][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;331219][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?[/QUOTE]

I only vote for people who think the way I do. Having faith in something beyond myself is so essential to my way of thinking that I couldn't vote for someone who didn't have that faith.[/QUOTE]


Obsessive Personality Complex much?

I don't like the way some of my colleagues think or act, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider them to do a crappy job. Who cares how you get from point A to B as long as the end result is the right one?

Since when are atheists not allowed to have faith in things other than themselves? I consider myself more on the agnostic/faith type person fence, but I believe in things like the good will of mankind etc... Atheists have morals too. You don't need faith in a religion to be an effective leader. In fact, I think it's much harder and rewarding to inspire people without the feel good logic behind most religious institutions.


#59



makare

Chazwozel;331258][QUOTE=makare1;331238][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;331219][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Personally, I would not vote for an atheist. But I am not a representative of the people.
Click to expand...
why not?[/QUOTE]

I only vote for people who think the way I do. Having faith in something beyond myself is so essential to my way of thinking that I couldn't vote for someone who didn't have that faith.[/QUOTE]


Obsessive Personality Complex much?

I don't like the way some of my colleagues think or act, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider them to do a crappy job. Who cares how you get from point A to B as long as the end result is the right one?

Since when are atheists not allowed to have faith in things other than themselves? I consider myself more on the agnostic/faith type person fence, but I believe in things like the good will of mankind etc... Atheists have morals too. You don't need faith in a religion to be an effective leader. In fact, I think it's much harder and rewarding to inspire people without the feel good logic behind most religious institutions.[/QUOTE]


Back the freak out bus up. I am not talking about believing in good will or having morals I am talking about having faith in God or a spiritual form. Which should be obvious since I specifically said I was talking about atheists. Also, you don't have to be religious to have spirituality. I specifically said that I do not represent everyone in society, my beliefs are my own.


#60

Baerdog

Baerdog

I'm going to have to side with makare here. It makes no sense to vote for somebody who doesn't share your ideals or way of thinking, at least in part. For makare, believing in a higher power is important to her. For another person it will be something else. Maybe they won't vote for a candidate who puts beans in his chili, for example. The point is that is pretty stupid to jump all over someone for choosing to vote according to their ideals, even if they differ from yours.


#61

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

What does believing in a god have to do with leading a country?


#62

Baerdog

Baerdog

That's something you'd have to ask makare. It's not one of the criteria that I personally look for in a political candidate.


#63



makare

The president is my representative on a national scale. I want to be represented by someone who, you know, represents me. So I would vote for the person that most represents me.


#64

Espy

Espy

The Lovely Boner said:
What does believing in a god have to do with leading a country?
Click to expand...
Maybe because it's actually about shared values, etc? I know you are probably trolling but seriously, people vote for people who, in general share their values. This is going to shock people so buckle up, but a religious belief would certainly influence one's values.


#65



Chazwozel

Baerdog7 said:
I'm going to have to side with makare here. It makes no sense to vote for somebody who doesn't share your ideals or way of thinking, at least in part. For makare, believing in a higher power is important to her. For another person it will be something else. Maybe they won't vote for a candidate who puts beans in his chili, for example. The point is that is pretty stupid to jump all over someone for choosing to vote according to their ideals, even if they differ from yours.
Click to expand...

My point is I would vote for someone who puts beans in their chili because putting beans in your chili, like faith, has nothing to do with leading a country. I hate it when I agree with Charlie...


#66



Chibibar

The Lovely Boner;331215][QUOTE=Chibibar said:
I saw Asian Female will the be LAST person be allow in the White house. Yes I believe Homosexual and transsexuals will be allow first before Asian Female (or even male)
Click to expand...
Why do you think that? Did some major legislation pass that explicitly discriminates against asian people recently?[/QUOTE]

why? cause general public are stupid and probably still think that all Chinese people are "commies" from China the same train of thought that all Muslims are "suicidal bombers"


#67



Chazwozel

Chibibar;331294][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;331215][QUOTE=Chibibar said:
I saw Asian Female will the be LAST person be allow in the White house. Yes I believe Homosexual and transsexuals will be allow first before Asian Female (or even male)
Click to expand...
Why do you think that? Did some major legislation pass that explicitly discriminates against asian people recently?[/QUOTE]

why? cause general public are stupid and probably still think that all Chinese people are "commies" from China the same train of thought that all Muslims are "suicidal bombers"[/QUOTE]


No we just think you guys drive bad and look funny.


#68

Dave

Dave

makare and I differ so much in this it's not even funny. I'd much rather vote for someone who doesn't believe in God than I would for someone who professes to believe and acts counter to these professed beliefs. See the notes on how GW used the religious right to further his own political ends and basically ignored them in the process.

I want a representative who governs with logic and a sense of right/wrong based on social norms rather than arbitrary rules based on a book a couple thousand years old written by an outdated and archaic establishment bent on dominating the weak and lonely.

But makare has the right to believe what she wants so it's all good.


#69

Baerdog

Baerdog

Dave said:
makare and I differ so much in this it's not even funny.
...
But makare has the right to believe what she wants so it's all good.
Click to expand...
This was the essence of my post.


#70



Chazwozel

makare1 said:
The president is my representative on a national scale. I want to be represented by someone who, you know, represents me. So I would vote for the person that most represents me.
Click to expand...
That's fine. It's your vote. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the right person for the job must think like the voter in terms of personal affiliations in order for that voter to give them their vote.


#71

Dave

Dave

I find it funny that belief in an imaginary friend is what gets your vote over things like health care, the economy and foreign relations. If an atheist was the best person for the job what does it matter?

Jimmy Carter was an insanely religious and good man. Didn't make him a good President.


#72



Chazwozel

Dave said:
I find it funny that belief in an imaginary friend is what gets your vote over things like health care, the economy and foreign relations. If an atheist was the best person for the job what does it matter?

Jimmy Carter was an insanely religious and good man. Didn't make him a good President.
Click to expand...
Whoa Whoa Whoa, let's nut get nuts on Jimmy C, here. A good reason that his presidency sucked so bad was because of Nixon fucking things over in the previous years.


#73



makare

Dave said:
makare and I differ so much in this it's not even funny. I'd much rather vote for someone who doesn't believe in God than I would for someone who professes to believe and acts counter to these professed beliefs. See the notes on how GW used the religious right to further his own political ends and basically ignored them in the process.

I want a representative who governs with logic and a sense of right/wrong based on social norms rather than arbitrary rules based on a book a couple thousand years old written by an outdated and archaic establishment bent on dominating the weak and lonely.

But makare has the right to believe what she wants so it's all good.
Click to expand...
yet again, I did not say anything about religion.

I want someone who believes that people have a spiritual self, something beyond their physical body. I wouldn't vote for some fundamentalist religious person whose allegiance are automatically split between the people and religion.

You can be spiritual without a book, thousands of years old or otherwise. You don't need gurus, rituals or sects. Spiritualism requires nothing but a belief in something spiritual beyond yourself.


#74

Snuffleupagus

Snuffleupagus

Chazwozel;331303][QUOTE=makare1 said:
The president is my representative on a national scale. I want to be represented by someone who, you know, represents me. So I would vote for the person that most represents me.
Click to expand...
That's fine. It's your vote. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the right person for the job must think like the voter in terms of personal affiliations in order for that voter to give them their vote.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't make sense. If the candidate doesn't share the same values as the voter then they are not the correct candidate for that voter. It's all based on how you see them whether or not you're going to vote for them.

By the way this is completely aside from religion. I could care less if people want to pray to their imaginary friends.


#75

Dave

Dave

makare1;331308][QUOTE=Dave said:
makare and I differ so much in this it's not even funny. I'd much rather vote for someone who doesn't believe in God than I would for someone who professes to believe and acts counter to these professed beliefs. See the notes on how GW used the religious right to further his own political ends and basically ignored them in the process.

I want a representative who governs with logic and a sense of right/wrong based on social norms rather than arbitrary rules based on a book a couple thousand years old written by an outdated and archaic establishment bent on dominating the weak and lonely.

But makare has the right to believe what she wants so it's all good.
Click to expand...
yet again, I did not say anything about religion.

I want someone who believes that people have a spiritual self, something beyond their physical body. I wouldn't vote for some fundamentalist religious person whose allegiance are automatically split between the people and religion.

You can be spiritual without a book, thousands of years old or otherwise. You don't need gurus, rituals or sects. Spiritualism requires nothing but a belief in something spiritual beyond yourself.[/QUOTE]

Okay, spirituality. What does that have to do with anything? At all? Let's say for a second that there is something larger out there and we just can't perceive it as Humans. If the only way to find out is to die how does it compute that a belief in this has any bearing at all on the ability to govern?

The illogic of this viewpoint makes my head go all crazy.


#76

Espy

Espy

Dave said:
I find it funny that belief in an imaginary friend is what gets your vote over things like health care, the economy and foreign relations. If an atheist was the best person for the job what does it matter?

Jimmy Carter was an insanely religious and good man. Didn't make him a good President.
Click to expand...
You guys aren't getting this are you? Serious, real religious belief and commitment informs every part of your life, it means that you take into account the values you are committed to and they affect your views on all of those political ideals. Stop getting so held up on "hur hur believe in big guy in the sky" and start thinking more in terms of personal values. Every single one of us has things that affect what we believe is right politically and those values stem from somewhere, for some it's from religious belief. You don't have to like it but it's stupid to denigrate it just because you get your values from somewhere else.

So if I believe that God has commanded us to take care of those in need that affects who I vote for and their stances on helping those in need, etc, etc. Does that makes sense? I personally won't say I wouldn't vote for an atheist if I felt that they had similar values, you certainly don't need to be a Christian to have the same values I do, but I haven't had the choice to make yet.


#77

Snuffleupagus

Snuffleupagus

Espy;331313][QUOTE=Dave said:
I find it funny that belief in an imaginary friend is what gets your vote over things like health care, the economy and foreign relations. If an atheist was the best person for the job what does it matter?

Jimmy Carter was an insanely religious and good man. Didn't make him a good President.
Click to expand...
You guys aren't getting this are you? Serious, real religious belief and commitment informs every part of your life, it means that you take into account the values you are committed to and they affect your views on all of those political ideals. Stop getting so held up on "hur hur believe in big guy in the sky" and start thinking more in terms of personal values. Every single one of us has things that affect what we believe is right politically and those values stem from somewhere, for some it's from religious belief. You don't have to like it but it's stupid to denigrate it just because you get your values from somewhere else.

So if I believe that God has commanded us to take care of those in need that affects who I vote for. Does that makes sense?[/QUOTE]

Exactly.


#78



Chazwozel

Snuffleupagus;331309][QUOTE=Chazwozel;331303][QUOTE=makare1 said:
The president is my representative on a national scale. I want to be represented by someone who, you know, represents me. So I would vote for the person that most represents me.
Click to expand...
That's fine. It's your vote. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the right person for the job must think like the voter in terms of personal affiliations in order for that voter to give them their vote.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't make sense. If the candidate doesn't share the same values as the voter then they are not the correct candidate for that voter. It's all based on how you see them whether or not you're going to vote for them.

By the way this is completely aside from religion. I could care less if people want to pray to their imaginary friends.[/QUOTE]

I don't give a shit about a candidates personal values, whether they had been married ten times over, gay, had 10 abortions, or if they're stout religious followers. All that stuff should be out the door in a professional setting. If I feel they have academic/professional experience for the job then I choose them. I want a political leader, not someone who shares my beliefs and values. I know I'd suck as president.


#79



makare

Dave;331312][QUOTE=makare1;331308][QUOTE=Dave said:
makare and I differ so much in this it's not even funny. I'd much rather vote for someone who doesn't believe in God than I would for someone who professes to believe and acts counter to these professed beliefs. See the notes on how GW used the religious right to further his own political ends and basically ignored them in the process.

I want a representative who governs with logic and a sense of right/wrong based on social norms rather than arbitrary rules based on a book a couple thousand years old written by an outdated and archaic establishment bent on dominating the weak and lonely.

But makare has the right to believe what she wants so it's all good.
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yet again, I did not say anything about religion.

I want someone who believes that people have a spiritual self, something beyond their physical body. I wouldn't vote for some fundamentalist religious person whose allegiance are automatically split between the people and religion.

You can be spiritual without a book, thousands of years old or otherwise. You don't need gurus, rituals or sects. Spiritualism requires nothing but a belief in something spiritual beyond yourself.[/QUOTE]

Okay, spirituality. What does that have to do with anything? At all? Let's say for a second that there is something larger out there and we just can't perceive it as Humans. If the only way to find out is to die how does it compute that a belief in this has any bearing at all on the ability to govern?

The illogic of this viewpoint makes my head go all crazy.[/QUOTE]

Im confused. Faith affects your ability to govern but the lack of faith doesn't? That doesnt make any sense to ME.


#80

Dave

Dave

Espy;331313][QUOTE=Dave said:
I find it funny that belief in an imaginary friend is what gets your vote over things like health care, the economy and foreign relations. If an atheist was the best person for the job what does it matter?

Jimmy Carter was an insanely religious and good man. Didn't make him a good President.
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You guys aren't getting this are you? Serious, real religious belief and commitment informs every part of your life, it means that you take into account the values you are committed to and they affect your views on all of those political ideals. Stop getting so held up on "hur hur believe in big guy in the sky" and start thinking more in terms of personal values. Every single one of us has things that affect what we believe is right politically and those values stem from somewhere, for some it's from religious belief. You don't have to like it but it's stupid to denigrate it just because you get your values from somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

In most cases wrong/right are taught by society in a variety of ways. Yes, religion is a part of these indoctrinations but there are also ways such as leading by example, parents teaching kids, etc. Religion or spirituality notwithstanding, these socio-political norms are ingrained into us at a fairly early age. But that doesn't make these indoctrinations logical, infallible or right! There are groups who teach hatred of minorities as right, groups who rail against abortion, groups for whom homosexuality is an evil that needs to be literally exercised. Whether these beliefs are because of a religion or some larger spiritualistic influence is immaterial.

What she's saying is that anyone having belief in something bigger is better than someone who does not believe in a larger cosmic patterning and I state that this is a logical fallacy and is the type of thinking that has been preyed upon for decades by the popes, overlords and politically savvy who use the beliefs as tools for their own personal gain.

I must say that even though I disagree with some of you this conversation is interesting. :cool:


#81

Espy

Espy

Beliefs of ANY kind from ANY source have been prayed upon. You assuming someone without belief is morally superior or a better politician is just as silly as the view that you think is dumb Dave, how can you not see that? In the end people are people and we try and choose people that REPRESENT our desires for our country. For some of us it's because we have beliefs instilled by faith, religion, parents, WHATEVER. But lets not pretend that those personal values and beliefs, whatever the source, are somehow better than someone else's. You can not agree with how Mak votes based on X but it's no dumber than anybody else's reasons. It's just us people doing the best we can. I really don't get the animosity about this here.


#82

Snuffleupagus

Snuffleupagus

Chazwozel;331317][QUOTE=Snuffleupagus;331309][QUOTE=Chazwozel;331303][QUOTE=makare1 said:
The president is my representative on a national scale. I want to be represented by someone who, you know, represents me. So I would vote for the person that most represents me.
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That's fine. It's your vote. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the right person for the job must think like the voter in terms of personal affiliations in order for that voter to give them their vote.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't make sense. If the candidate doesn't share the same values as the voter then they are not the correct candidate for that voter. It's all based on how you see them whether or not you're going to vote for them.

By the way this is completely aside from religion. I could care less if people want to pray to their imaginary friends.[/QUOTE]

I don't give a shit about a candidates personal values, whether they had been married ten times over, gay, had 10 abortions, or if they're stout religious followers. All that stuff should be out the door in a professional setting. If I feel they have academic/professional experience for the job then I choose them. I want a political leader, not someone who shares my beliefs and values. I know I'd suck as president.[/QUOTE]

I had a really long post written but it's not really worth arguing. Basically, respresenting the values and beliefs of the nation is the presidents job.


#83

Espy

Espy

If I feel they have academic/professional experience for the job then I choose them... not someone who shares my beliefs and values
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So would Chaz vote for someone with the experience but who was against every issue he was for? According to that post he would but I really doubt it for some reason.


#84

Dave

Dave

Espy said:
Beliefs of ANY kind from ANY source have been prayed upon. You assuming someone without belief is morally superior or a better politician is just as silly as the view that you think is dumb Dave, how can you not see that? In the end people are people and we try and choose people that REPRESENT our desires for our country. For some of us it's because we have beliefs instilled by faith, religion, parents, WHATEVER. But lets not pretend that those personal values and beliefs, whatever the source, are somehow better than someone else's. You can not agree with how Mak votes based on X but it's no dumber than anybody else's reasons. It's just us people doing the best we can. I really don't get the animosity about this here.
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Nein! I never said anything of the sort. What I did say is that we all learned right/wrong from different places and that merely voting for someone based on their PROFESSED spirituality is ludicrous. Instead, vote on their past deeds, their abilities and their vision for the future. If the person best suited for the job is a spiritual person then more power to you. But to dismiss out of hand a valid candidate because he or she is not spiritual is silly.


#85



Philosopher B.

Personally, I don't care about what you believe in as a presidential candidate, I care about what you intend to do. Even if I don't agree with everything you intend to do, I maye agree with more that you intend to do than the other guy. I like what Chaz said earlier about not caring how you get from point A to point B.


#86

ElJuski

ElJuski

If I were a politician, I would just pretend I'm a Catholic and just be the agnostic/atheist that I am so I could get the Makare vote. I have no problem pretending I'm under some religious banner if it means it helps me get that easy vote.


#87



crono1224

ElJuski said:
If I were a politician, I would just pretend I'm a Catholic and just be the agnostic/atheist that I am so I could get the Makare vote. I have no problem pretending I'm under some religious banner if it means it helps me get that easy vote.
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I'm pretty sure that with how the media is now, they could see how lazy of a Catholic you would appear to be, unless you go to church anyways?


#88



Kitty Sinatra

ElJuski said:
If I were a politician, I would just pretend I'm a Catholic and just be the agnostic/atheist that I am so I could get the Makare vote. I have no problem pretending I'm under some religious banner if it means it helps me get that easy vote.
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You running for Prime Minister of in Canada? Cause I don't see why you'd pretend to be Catholic in the States, dude, but it sure would seem to help here.


#89



makare

ElJuski said:
If I were a politician, I would just pretend I'm a Catholic and just be the agnostic/atheist that I am so I could get the Makare vote. I have no problem pretending I'm under some religious banner if it means it helps me get that easy vote.
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yeah I didnt say i would vote for just anyone because they are spiritual. I said I would not vote for an atheist. I still have many other factors that influence my voting.


#90



Kitty Sinatra

makare1 said:
I would not vote for an atheist.
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:(

There go my dreams of becoming governor of North Dakota

:tear:


#91

Baerdog

Baerdog

Good think for you that's not where she lives. Hope springs eternal!


#92



Kitty Sinatra

Eh? It says right there in her location that she's from . . . South. :doh:

Alright! The Dream's alive. Just gotta get into professional wrestling and turn gay and I'll be ready for the gubernatorial arena.:high5:


#93

Baerdog

Baerdog

Go get 'em, Tiger.


#94



makare

Gruebeard said:
Eh? It says right there in her location that she's from . . . South. :doh:

Alright! The Dream's alive. Just gotta get into professional wrestling and turn gay and I'll be ready for the gubernatorial arena.:high5:
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What exactly is going on in North Dakota?


#95



crono1224

Baerdog7 said:
Good think for you that's not where she lives. Hope springs eternal!
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It's comical to correct his geographical problem by presenting a grammatical one.


#96



Kitty Sinatra

Tigerpansy. That's my wrestling name.


#97



Kitty Sinatra

makare1 said:
What exactly is going on in North Dakota?
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Nothing yet. But when I'm governor, it'll be 4 years of - well, still nothing. It's North Dakota after all. I just want a cushy government job. I'd try for Alaska, but it's too cold and Russia's right next door - too scary.


#98



makare

North Dakota is the inferior Dakota.


#99

Espy

Espy

Dave;331330][QUOTE=Espy said:
Beliefs of ANY kind from ANY source have been prayed upon. You assuming someone without belief is morally superior or a better politician is just as silly as the view that you think is dumb Dave, how can you not see that? In the end people are people and we try and choose people that REPRESENT our desires for our country. For some of us it's because we have beliefs instilled by faith, religion, parents, WHATEVER. But lets not pretend that those personal values and beliefs, whatever the source, are somehow better than someone else's. You can not agree with how Mak votes based on X but it's no dumber than anybody else's reasons. It's just us people doing the best we can. I really don't get the animosity about this here.
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Nein! I never said anything of the sort. What I did say is that we all learned right/wrong from different places and that merely voting for someone based on their PROFESSED spirituality is ludicrous. Instead, vote on their past deeds, their abilities and their vision for the future. If the person best suited for the job is a spiritual person then more power to you. But to dismiss out of hand a valid candidate because he or she is not spiritual is silly.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thats fair, I can agree with you on that, HOWEVER I would assume no one here is actually saying the only thing they want in a candidate is spirituality but rather someone who's spirituality or religion and the values that come with it are in line with the voters.

makare1 said:
North Dakota is the inferior Dakota.
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Hey, it's got that whole "flat as a pancake" thing going for it. That can come in handy when you um... when... um... I got nothing.


#100



Kitty Sinatra

I'd say. It lacks the greatness that South Dakota possesses: You


#101

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Which one has Mt Rushmore?


#102



makare

South Dakota has Mt. Rushmore, which is pretty cool, but the area where it is is a very small part of the state really. We have Sturgis and if you own a bike the hills and the scenic roads are some of the best in the world. I love living here <3


#103



Kitty Sinatra

The Lovely Boner said:
Which one has Mt Rushmore?
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It doesn't matter.. We know which one has Makare and that's all that matters.

Also, North will soon have me as governor, which is a pretty hefty point in the South's favor.


#104

Shakey

Shakey

South Dakota has the Corn Palace and Wall Drug too. Can't beat that.


#105



makare

I could fill pages of this forum singing the praises of my state, but I probably better not.


#106

Dave

Dave

That would be a very short song. I have been there. Nebraska is no better but SD is nothing of which to sing.


#107



makare

Dave said:
That would be a very short song. I have been there. Nebraska is no better but SD is nothing of which to sing.
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You watch yourself old man! South Dakota is awesome.... and no not just because I am here although that IS a factor.


#108

Dave

Dave

South Dakota has 2 things going for it and one has been degraded in recent years by dentists who fancy themselves bikers.


#109



makare

Dave said:
South Dakota has 2 things going for it and one has been degraded in recent years by dentists who fancy themselves bikers.
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That's it! As soon as I get home I am hitting the love the place I live thread hard....


South Dakota is pure greatness.


#110

Dave

Dave

makare1;331404][QUOTE=Dave said:
South Dakota has 2 things going for it and one has been degraded in recent years by dentists who fancy themselves bikers.
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That's it! As soon as I get home I am hitting the love the place I live thread hard....


South Dakota is pure greatness.[/QUOTE]

Pfft. Whatever. SD is what gets in your way when you are trying to escape North Dakota and make it to civilization.


#111



makare

Dave;331406][QUOTE=makare1;331404][QUOTE=Dave said:
South Dakota has 2 things going for it and one has been degraded in recent years by dentists who fancy themselves bikers.
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That's it! As soon as I get home I am hitting the love the place I live thread hard....


South Dakota is pure greatness.[/QUOTE]

Pfft. Whatever. SD is what gets in your way when you are trying to escape North Dakota and make it to civilization.[/QUOTE]

That I might agree with Dave. The lack of "civilization" might just be the most awesome thing about South Dakota.


#112



JCM

My point is I would vote for someone who puts beans in their chili because putting beans in your chili, like faith, has nothing to do with leading a country.
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I agree with this, but sadly Chaz, most people believe that morals go along with religion.

Go figure.
Baerdog7 said:
I'm going to have to side with makare here. It makes no sense to vote for somebody who doesn't share your ideals or way of thinking, at least in part. For makare, believing in a higher power is important to her. For another person it will be something else. Maybe they won't vote for a candidate who puts beans in his chili, for example. The point is that is pretty stupid to jump all over someone for choosing to vote according to their ideals, even if they differ from yours.
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Pretty much this.

Makare will vote for someone who shares her ideals. Chaz will probably vote for someone who shares his. Religion is only a question when voting if one's values are based on religion.


#113

@Li3n

@Li3n

JCM said:
My point is I would vote for someone who puts beans in their chili because putting beans in your chili, like faith, has nothing to do with leading a country.
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I agree with this, but sadly Chaz, most people believe that morals go along with religion.
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I for one love the argument that without God there to threaten you with hellfire you can't be a good/moral person... because being good is the same as being afraid of punishment.


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