Okay, a friend of mine and I were talking and she said that in a specific situation "everybody wins". I came back with that I think more along the lines of "nobody loses". She said that my way of thinking is more pessimistic and I disagree.
So, Halforums, I ask you to solve this prickly debate! Which statement is more optimistic and WHY?
(votes are public)
#2
Disconnected
"I win" is most optimistic cause it focus on the most important thing. Me.
"nobody loses" would be more commonly thought of having a tone of pessimism simply due to the fact 'loses' is said, and some people immediately flash a losing meaning to it.
Neither statement is any more optimistic than the other but people's perception of them is.
#3
Allen who is Quiet
It depends on whether you analyze it as involving two states of being or 3+ states of being
If there are only two possible states (win, lose), then the statements are logically equivalent, and it's purely up to taste.
If there are three states (win, neutral, lose), then Everybody Wins means that everyone is in the desirable "Win" category. If nobody loses, that means that people could occupy the "Win" or the "Neutral" states, making Everybody Wins mean that all people involved are better off because of it, while Nobody Loses just says that nobody is worse off.
#4
Chibibar
Both are equal in terms of "value" Everybody Wins = nobody loses
So, we would have to start comparing terms.
Wins vs Lose = Wins does have a more positive outlook since nobody like to lose BUT there are some cases you might want to lose (I can't think of an example)
Everybody vs Nobody = one is inclusive of everyone while the other exclude everyone.
The psychological "feel good" would be everyone wins
#5
makare
Wins is definitely more positive. If someone says everybody wins I think of it as we all end up better off. If nobody loses we all stay the same. Kind of a risk reward thing.
#6
Dave
So what I'm hearing is that even though they are equivalents, the mere perception of the parsed out individual words makes hers SOUND more optimistic?
Yep. You're hearing it right. Must have changed the batteries in your hearing aids today.
#9
Dave
#10
Wasabi Poptart
I couldn't figure out how your hearing would be affected by flappy hooties unless they were stuck in your ears. lol
#11
Null
From my point of view, there's a difference. If everybody wins, then all parties involved gain a positive benefit. If nobody loses, then all parties involved at least maintain their current status. There is a significant difference between the two. I'm not sure about optimistic and pessimistic. There can definitely be situations where nobody loses but not everybody wins.
#12
Dave
Now that is an excellent way of putting it.
I have conceded the point and hang my head in pessimistic shame.
It's not pessimistic, they're just not necessarily the same thing.
#16
Denbrought
If positive outcomes were on a number scale,
0 ≤ Nobody loses
0 < Everybody Wins
Innit kinda obvious which one is better?
#17
Thread Necromancer
To drunk, can't respond.
On the the other hand. Statements are often judged as negative or positive despite their intended meaning because of the words they contain. "Loses" is a negative context word and is there for going to make any statement that contains it a less positive feeling statement than one that contains a word such as "Wins".
So in essence, the statement using a negative term even in a positive sense is still deemed a negative statement in contrast. Also, black is not black, it is grey, except when compared to black.
#18
@Li3n
Nobody loses is definitely not pessimistic... it'd call it more reserved optimism...
