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I hadn't heard about this or, if I had, I had already forgotten. Sounds really promising, something I would actually play (too bad I don't have the time one needs to put into these things).

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...-permadeath-player-controlled-cities-and-huma

Anyone else following this? I for one am pretty excited.

Perma-Death has always been an instant turn off for me. Ever disconnect during a bad time in any MMMO ever? Yeah how about the consequence of that isn't just a quick corpse run but the fact that you lost everything you ever did? Yeah no thanks.

I understand how it gives a sense of paranoia and adrenaline, I've played Perma-Death MMOs before. However it doesn't make up for the Disconnecting or even group gang-bangs that happen because of it.

It'll get patched out or be so expensive that it would only be used in the most extreme of cases. As it is, only a Prince can call for it and any time a public figure calls a fucking Blood Hunt, they really need to justify it or they'll have people out for them instead. I've seen this happen in Vampire groups.

I'm still going to give World of Darkness a try at any rate.

Perma death can be awesome -if- it's very difficult to pull off, and if there's either a player base that can self regulate against abuse, or if there are game moderators that can do the same.

Yuck, perma-death.

Ravenpoe said:

Perma death can be awesome -if- it's very difficult to pull off, and if there's either a player base that can self regulate against abuse, or if there are game moderators that can do the same.

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If what they say is true (that only a prince can call a blood hunt, which is what can cause perma death) then yeah, it's going to be self-regulated by having mobs of people dethrone him and throwing a blood hunt on his ass if he abuses it. Vampire politics are notoriously vicious and you can't do that sort of thing without justifying it to your community. It's not something you do lightly or often, lest your subjects decide your a murderous tyrant and leave you out for the morning sun.

Losing 4-6 hours worth of xp every time I died in EQ1 was bad enough. Losing everything forever? Noooooooooooooooo thanks.

AshburnerX any single way they try to justify it, won't matter much as most will see the words Perma-Death and instantly be turned off. You have to appeal to the mass audience to at least get your foot in the door or you'll end up like most start up MMOs do.

Shegokigo said:

AshburnerX any single way they try to justify it, won't matter much as most will see the words Perma-Death and instantly be turned off. You have to appeal to the mass audience to at least get your foot in the door or you'll end up like most start up MMOs do.

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See, I'm having the exact opposite reaction: It makes me want to play it more, because it means that my RP will matter all the more. See, I've actually had a Blood Hunt called on me before... yes, it was annoying that I suddenly had people after me 24/7 in-game, but it also meant that for a short, shining time I was the center of attention for the entire community. It's a real opportunity to let people see how you play. That way, even if your character dies, you've still shown the community what you can do and likely impressed a lot of people. This is very important for the RP community, because exposure gives you a bigger pool of people to play with.

Honestly all they need to do is make sure people know what they are getting into: Make some servers non-perma death and some perma-death. Make it clear on the server before you make a character.

Also, they need to give more details on the fucking game. For the past 2-3 years, all we've gotten is art and the occasional game mechanic discussion.

Subtle death penalties are OK but perma death? Just offer that on select servers and keep it at that.

How do these people have jobs?

Vampire. Politics.

Jay said:

Subtle death penalties are OK but perma death? Just offer that on select servers and keep it at that.

How do these people have jobs?

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Perma-death is only from PVP stuff and it only happens if you've had a blood hunt called on you. Normal PVP and PVE stuff doesn't carry perma-death.

Dave said:

Vampire. Politics.

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In Vampire The Masquerade, the entire game is almost entirely about politics, because Vampires are at their hearts social creatures. You can't survive on your own without giving into "The Beast" or exposing yourself to the world at large. Doing ether violates "The Masquerade" (The conspiracy that denies vampires exists to the public) and is generally the kind of thing that gets a Blood Hunt called on you.

Honestly, it's far more complex than that but I really couldn't explain it better without giving you a book and telling you to read it.

AshburnerX said:

See, I'm having the exact opposite reaction: It makes me want to play it more,

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That's because you're in the minority. This isn't the first MMO to try Perma-Death. It was either voiced so strongly against while a game had it in Beta or it broke into flames and died on release.

Again, I understand the "point" of doing it, your explanations have already been heard. It doesn't matter to the Gen. public. The only way they could possibly get away with it is if it's a "toggle" and if it is, I can guarantee it'll be the least used "feature" of the game.

They apparently don't want to create a big media machine while still in development, according to the article, which is both understandable and dangerous.

They've got the loyal WoD fans who are already clamoring for the game, just like swtor and even SW:G did. The problem with not releasing much until it's ready is you won't pull new people in with just telling them how it'll play. Plus, throwing the big P-word out with nothing but a tech demo is risky, as we've already established. A casual gamer is going to be scared away by Permadeath, even if it's a rare thing. Comparing it to EVE can be risky too (also done in the article there), as it's one of, if not the, biggest learning curves in MMO's today.

I'd play it.

But then, I'm an altoholic.

Shegokigo said:

Again, I understand the "point" of doing it, your explanations have already been heard. It doesn't matter to the Gen. public. The only way they could possibly get away with it is if it's a "toggle" and if it is, I can guarantee it'll be the least used "feature" of the game.

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I do agree with this. Not everyone is willing to risk everything and be at the whims of someone else. It definitely needs to have an opt in on it, ether at character creation or server selection.

I'd definitely make it a mandatory condition for being in the running for Prince though: You don't get to do this shit unless your willing to have it done to you.

CynicismKills said:

Comparing it to EVE can be risky too (also done in the article there), as it's one of, if not the, biggest learning curves in MMO's today.

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It's also one of the biggest reasons why Eve doesn't have over 500k sub scribers. I'm not saying you have to be successful but one of the only reasons that game doesn't feel dead is the fact that there's only one server.

It sounds like they're trying to stick to the source material as much as possible, and make an immersive world focusing on roleplaying. It's not going to be a big hit. This is a game focused on a specific audience, not the general population. They'll most likely go the route of Eve anyways and just have one server, so a huge player base isn't really needed.

It sounds interesting. I'll definitely try it out if it ever gets finished.

A single server with multiple, fully developed cities to work out of would be amazing, if crowded.

As long as they try to create enough incentive to spread out, crowding wouldn't be a huge problem. I always liked the way Eve has their servers set up. The big trade hubs they have might not be great though.

Well being a Vampire is all about gaining political power over other vampires, because doing so helps protect yourself from getting staked by some asshole with a grudge. However, there are only so many offices in a city and not everyone gets to hold office. So the idea of spreading out is mainly to secure your own power base and protect your own interests by becoming a powerful figure in a city.

What's more, there isn't only one political group vying for power in the world.There are 3 major ones and they all want a piece of the pie. You'll see fighting over cities, but mainly you have each group spreading out and claiming it's own territory because it's easier than fighting off an entrenched opponent. Eventually war breaks out, but there are always bastions of each faction.

So yeah... I don't forsee too much problem about spreading out.

This makes me want to scrounge around for all my old Masquerade books. I wonder if I still have them around...

I'll be more interested if they bring in the Werewolf stuff, specifically the Apocalypse stuff not the newer dreck.

Gryfter said:

I'll be more interested if they bring in the Werewolf stuff, specifically the Apocalypse stuff not the newer dreck.

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It's been stated many times that this game will be based on the Old World of Darkness, but at release it's only going to be vampires. We'll probably get Werewolves in the first major expansion, followed by Mages or Hunters.

But yeah, it's Apocalypse, not Forsaken... though I like a lot of the New World of Darkness stuff, especially the Hunter books. They really expanded the Hunter concept and made it very diverse instead of being people chosen by God (or whatever). You can still get powers if you want them, but you don't NEED magic to be effective... you can just get state-of-the-art weapons from the government or use superior tactics instead.

mr_thehun said:

from what I read, the hunters were supposed to be the modern version of solar exalts from the world of exalted (while mages were sideereal, vampires death knights, werewolves moon blooded etc. Though this could be complete bs。

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For first edition Exalted, they tried to play up the angle that Exalted was the World of Darkness IN THE PAST.

Then they started making second edition of Exalted and White Wolf realized that that's retarded.

Yeah, that was stupid. It's still possible to make a Hunter: The Vigil character that uses a variation of the old story if you make them part of the Cainite Heresy conspiracy from the Night Stalkers splat, but there are a lot more interesting options. Some of my favorites...

- Vanguard Serial Crimes Unit: FBI officers with psychic powers that hunt down Slashers, which are humans that have become twisted into Serial Killers. Think X-Files, if Mulder could use psychic powers to gather evidence. Comes complete with a Gitmo style prison for containing supernatural threats (You even need Congressional subcommittee to approve a new inmate!)

- Maiden's Blood Sisterhood: A sorority created to protect America's colleges from the bloodsuckers, the Sisters in the group are just as well known for caring for the victims as well as eliminating the vampires. It's like Buffy, except for every college in America.

- Task Force: VALKYRIE: The US government's answer to what goes bump in the night. Men in Black armed with the most advanced weapons on Earth, committed to protecting the public at large from Extra Normal Threats. Also destroying all evidence of them.

- Network Zero: A loose collection of people trying to get the truth out to the public using social media, Youtube, pirate radio stations and hijacked television channels. Think Ghost Hunters, but with guns.

There are a full 26 different groups out there in the official splats, and you don't even NEED to join them if you don't want to. It's a totally different feel from Hunter: The Reckoning and I really hope they draw from that source for Hunters instead of the oWoD ones.