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"Europeans scoff at the idea that they're just as fat and stupid as Americans"


Why is this such a mystery to people. The less active a society becomes, and the more abundant and easily obtainable their food is the fatter it becomes. It's not that hard to figure out. People are inherently lazy, lazy fuckers, but if they're starving they'll chase after a goddamn rabbit for days in order to eat it. If all you have to do is go to the store to get food, you bypass how we've evolutionarily evolved to expend energy.

Our bodies, however, still work under the rules of thermodynamics and biochemistry - that is, they act to store energy as efficiently as possible without using that energy until absolutely necessary. Your body is evolutionarily designed to store up as much fat as possible because it still works like every other mammals' on the planets. Store up as much energy as possible because I'm using a butt fuck ton of it to find food to convert to more energy. There is no easy on off switch to how our metabolism works.

Solution: society does the exact inverse of what our ancestors did. We eat and don't move around. You want to be thin? Put the fucking twinkie down, eat a sandwich, and go play soccer for about four hours.

I'm fat, sedentary and happy.

America! Fuck yeah!

Maybe Greece will get thinner soon.

Hey Matthias, let's go for a run

Dave said:

I'm fat, sedentary and happy.

America! Fuck yeah!

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There's nothing wrong with that in my mind. If you don't give a crap, that's fine. I'm just baffled as to how much money is poured into the obesity problem. The problem and solution to the problem is pretty straight forward. The crux of the issue is exactly your 'why bother' attitude.

Back in the day, you bothered because if you didn't work on a farm all day, or hunted your food you were dead. By industrializing farms and food processing we've taken out the selection for genes related to obesity, and further encouraged it along with sedentary lifestyles. The why bother attitude is justified because who the hell wants to run for 15 miles everyday? What's the motivation other than looking good for society? I'll tell you right now that death is the far bigger motivator than looking good.

But death is a very abstract thing for most people. Do I know I'm going to die? Yes. But does that mean that I'm curbing my destructive personal habits? Nope. And I probably won't until one day my left arm starts to hurt real bad.

If death is the big motivator, then there would be no obesity problem. My uncle just had open heart surgery back in November. He had two valves completely replaced, a third one "cleaned out" and the surgeon said his heart muscle was in such bad shape that it was stuck to his chest wall in places. His blood pressure still isn't well controlled. Does he follow the diet his cardiologist put him on? Nope. Does he exercise? Not at all. I think even death is something that people see as happening to the other guy and not them.

Being healthy and active makes life in general easier and happier, though. It's a medical fact that exercise and good health is linked with mental health, as well.

For me, I dropped 45 pounds several years ago and have kept it off ever since. I love biking, doing yoga and eating pretty healthy meals. Though, I still have a sweet tooth especially for chocolate, so I could be in better health.

Mathias said:

Your body is evolutionarily designed to store up as much fat as possible because it still works like every other mammals' on the planets.

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I don't buy this. Not all animals get fat when allowed to eat as much as they want. Most of our cats are allowed to eat as much as they like, and the only ones that are significantly overweight are the ones that have health problems. There's one that had a stroke (or something similar) and now is always hungry. We have to keep the food away from her, she'll eat until she can't move. There's two more with chronic health problems who are also overweight, and likely overeat because they're not adsorbing the nutrients they need from their food. The remaning 6 cats are fed as much food as they desire, and are not overweight. Some are downright skinny (5 of those six, and the stroke-victim, are from the same gene pool. A mother and her kittens, whom we took in when a neighbor moved away).

They eat a balanced diet that supplies the nutrients they need, and so they don't over-eat. In the past we had a cat who was similarly healthy, until the cat food we'd been feeding him wasn't stocked anymore. We switched over to something else and he got fat. Later we found out that what we'd switched to wasn't made with as good ingredients, and he'd been eating extra to try and get nutrients the new food was missing. We started special ordering the original food, and he dropped most of the extra weight.

Now obviously this is no scientific study, but it's been my experience with human nutrition as well. You're less likely to feel hungry for calories you don't need, if you've gotten adequate amounts of the vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, essential amino acids and other vital nutrients that you do need. I read an article in the paper the other day that said that multi-vitamins increase your metabolism, so if you're getting balanced nutrition you burn more calories as well.

Dave said:

But death is a very abstract thing for most people. Do I know I'm going to die? Yes. But does that mean that I'm curbing my destructive personal habits? Nope. And I probably won't until one day my left arm starts to hurt real bad.

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I gets starvation is the real motivator.

Every time I read the title of this thread, I think we're talking about a new burger at Hardees.

Mathias said:

I gets starvation is the real motivator.

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Only if you are starving. Hell, there are days when I am so hungry I get shaky. And that's hardly any time since my last meal (like if I missed breakfast & lunch) compared to those who are really starving. Face it, until we go through these hardships they really mean nothing to us.

Yeah... Not gonna touch this topic with a ten-foot pole.

Dave said:

And I probably won't until one day my left arm starts to hurt real bad.

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Interestingly enough, that didn't happen to me. Still ended up in CICU.

figmentPez said:

I don't buy this. Not all animals get fat when allowed to eat as much as they want. Most of our cats are allowed to eat as much as they like, and the only ones that are significantly overweight are the ones that have health problems. There's one that had a stroke (or something similar) and now is always hungry. We have to keep the food away from her, she'll eat until she can't move. There's two more with chronic health problems who are also overweight, and likely overeat because they're not adsorbing the nutrients they need from their food. The remaning 6 cats are fed as much food as they desire, and are not overweight. Some are downright skinny (5 of those six, and the stroke-victim, are from the same gene pool. A mother and her kittens, whom we took in when a neighbor moved away).

They eat a balanced diet that supplies the nutrients they need, and so they don't over-eat. In the past we had a cat who was similarly healthy, until the cat food we'd been feeding him wasn't stocked anymore. We switched over to something else and he got fat. Later we found out that what we'd switched to wasn't made with as good ingredients, and he'd been eating extra to try and get nutrients the new food was missing. We started special ordering the original food, and he dropped most of the extra weight.

Now obviously this is no scientific study, but it's been my experience with human nutrition as well. You're less likely to feel hungry for calories you don't need, if you've gotten adequate amounts of the vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, essential amino acids and other vital nutrients that you do need. I read an article in the paper the other day that said that multi-vitamins increase your metabolism, so if you're getting balanced nutrition you burn more calories as well.

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When I get the time, I will write out a very, very detailed mechanism on basically how your metabolism works. You're partially right, metabolism does depend heavily on health and genetics. But the big mystery to everyone is why obesity is increasing in populations around the world. My answer is that it has to do more with humans developing society, which counteracts how our bodies evolved to process and store energy than foods we develope (but those certainly are a factor). The new food you gave your cat exceeded his caloric intake balance. You're right it probably wasn't as nutritious as the former food, so he ate a lot of empty calories. This doesn't contradict what I said.

I guess the gist is everyone wants to be thin and healthy, and my simple solution to that is that you can't trick how your body metabolizes food into energy. You just can't. The solution is simple: find out your caloric balance i.e. how many calories a day you can have to use for energy and lessen it, and exercise to stimulate faster metabolic rates. My point is the evolution has made mammals function on the basis of energy storage, and developing society has taken away key elements that use up that extra energy.

Mathias said:

My point is the evolution has made mammals function on the basis of energy storage, and developing society has taken away key elements that use up that extra energy.

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Do you think if our current societal tendencies continue that evolution will force a change in these functions?

Social evolution works on a timescale so different from biological evolution that it's extremely unlikely that they'd influence each other.

Mathias said:

I guess the gist is everyone wants to be thin and healthy, and my simple solution to that is that you can't trick how your body metabolizes food into energy. You just can't. The solution is simple: find out your caloric balance i.e. how many calories a day you can have to use for energy and lessen it, and exercise to stimulate faster metabolic rates. My point is the evolution has made mammals function on the basis of energy storage, and developing society has taken away key elements that use up that extra energy.

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And I don't see why this is so hard for people. Stop eating the pizza, chocolate cake, Coca Cola, McDonalds burgers, etc. Maybe if people had these things more occasionally and with more restraint, they'd not only be thinner, but appreciate those items when they do eat them.

HCGLNS said:

Do you think if our current societal tendencies continue that evolution will force a change in these functions?

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Maybe... in like 2 million years...
Added at: 08:56

tegid said:

Social evolution works on a timescale so different from biological evolution that it's extremely unlikely that they'd influence each other.

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^^^^
Added at: 08:58

escushion said:

And I don't see why this is so hard for people. Stop eating the pizza, chocolate cake, Coca Cola, McDonalds burgers, etc. Maybe if people had these things more occasionally and with more restraint, they'd not only be thinner, but appreciate those items when they do eat them.

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And there's is a very good point.

Hunting a squirrel to eat = expend like 1,500 calories, gain about 300.

Going to Pizza Hut and eating a medium pizza all to yourself = expend about 300 calories, gain about 2,000.

It's not rocket science as to why people in a more developed society get fatter. Through evolution our bodies function off the squirrel hunting example. They are constantly into "store as much energy as possible because we don't know when the next energy deposit will come" mode.

I know that I am just one person but to all the junk food blamers as a kid I rarely EVER got junk food of any kind and I was still fat. So it is very possible to be fat and not eat McDonald's food. I just want to put that out there.

It's not about blaming junk food. It is about a sedentary lifestyle. We don't have to work as hard in modern society as our ancestors, who had evolved to earn those calories and store every bit they could for lean times. Now there are no lean times and there is no work. Even if you are eating peanut butter sandwiches, there is relatively little effort that goes into capturing that food and eating it.

For the most part, I dislike eating. It's time consuming and only an instant gratification. I like how food tastes, and I enjoy a good meal, but for me it's never been the comforting activity some people experience.

I'd also like to add that we all know that metabolism and body type play a role in weight gains and the difficulty of keeping that weight off. It isn't just activity and food consumption.

And, whenever I hear somebody talk like that, I feel some envy.

Then I remember how much pleasure I get from eating, and I know I wouldn't want to lose that.

Enormous portions are a problem. That's what I had to work on to lose. I understand that times are hard, and we want to get the most for our money, but there's almost no appreciation of the quality of what we eat anymore; it's all about quantity. I HATE going out with Jake's parents to dinner, because all they care about is how much they're getting. It can be the most mediocre food in the world... if it's a plate big enough to hold 4 servings, that's what matters most. And some people eat like that for 3 meals a day! Breakfast, lunch, and dinner in huge, 1000-calorie portions.

Makare's right... it's not all about junk food. You can eat 2.5x more than what you need of healthy food and still get fat. It's why my dad is so overweight. He thinks that it's okay to keep eating and eating just because he's having oatmeal or fruit. It's healthy, so it must be helping him. Then he wonders why he makes no progress.

MindDetective said:

It's not about blaming junk food. It is about a sedentary lifestyle. We don't have to work as hard in modern society as our ancestors, who had evolved to earn those calories and store every bit they could for lean times. Now there are no lean times and there is no work. Even if you are eating peanut butter sandwiches, there is relatively little effort that goes into capturing that food and eating it.

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Exactly. The bottom line is that there's more caloric intake and less expenditure. Back even 50 years ago there was not as much food and far more expenditure of energy. Although junk food does contribute to empty caloric intake as well.

I'm not denying that some individuals are genetically predisposed to be obese, but I could also tie that into selection. Modern medicine...

Overall, I'm not talking about genetic imbalances, defects, or diseases that cause obesity in a small subset of the population. The problem that's being seen is that obesity in the normal population is on the rise. All the politically correct folks try to blame everything but the actual cause. It's actually easy to blame the fast food industry, industrial farming, food science, and the FDA, but the bottom line still remains: people are NOT active at all.

I can't blame them. Who the hell wants to run without any motivation? You don't need to run anymore. You don't need to break your back plowing fields all day. You don't need to saw a tree down, trim off the bark, shape 2x4's out of the trunk, and build up your house by yourself, and have a plate of lean rabbit or venison with some small potatoes at the end of the day. Back in the 1800's that's what you had to do if you wanted to survive! That was the motivation. It was the same motivation as the motivation someone has to go to work. It's just something you have to do.

I'm not a primitivist either. I'm not advocating that technology sucks, but the key to the obesity problem is finding that motivation to use your body as it was intended - to work! Actually, this is why I'm such a huge sports enthusiast. People can bitch and moan about how stupid it is to chase a ball on a field and try to kick it into a box, but at the end of the day you're body is getting what it needs, and it's easy to do! When you play - say- soccer, you do it because you have fun doing it. There's the motivation. You don't think about how tired you are, or how much your legs hurt. It's fun to play! This is why I'm gung-ho for children's sports programs. This is why I HATE portable video game systems, and kids playing video games over playing sports. Being human means being active. Period. It's what we're evolutionarily designed to be. Why fight it? My main concern continues to be our societies departure from what our bodies need. Hell, even our mental health is being affected.
Added at: 12:44

Cajungal said:

Enormous portions are a problem. That's what I had to work on to lose. I understand that times are hard, and we want to get the most for our money, but there's almost no appreciation of the quality of what we eat anymore; it's all about quantity. I HATE going out with Jake's parents to dinner, because all they care about is how much they're getting. It can be the most mediocre food in the world... if it's a plate big enough to hold 4 servings, that's what matters most. And some people eat like that for 3 meals a day! Breakfast, lunch, and dinner in huge, 1000-calorie portions.

Makare's right... it's not all about junk food. You can eat 2.5x more than what you need of healthy food and still get fat. It's why my dad is so overweight. He thinks that it's okay to keep eating and eating just because he's having oatmeal or fruit. It's healthy, so it must be helping him. Then he wonders why he makes no progress.

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YES! YES! YES!

I hate buffets! With a passion. Why? Because I sometimes I feel there should just be a tough in the middle of the restaurant.
Added at: 12:46

Krisken said:

For the most part, I dislike eating. It's time consuming and only an instant gratification. I like how food tastes, and I enjoy a good meal, but for me it's never been the comforting activity some people experience.

I'd also like to add that we all know that metabolism and body type play a role in weight gains and the difficulty of keeping that weight off. It isn't just activity and food consumption.

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For the most part, actually it is. Now that said, some people will be bigger or smaller than others no matter what. My cousin is a workout fiend. He's in the gym constantly; he eats according to a nutritionist prescribed plan for him. I work out but not to the same extent and don't follow a strict diet. I'm still stronger than him. No matter what he does, I am always bigger. Genetics plays heavily on an individual level. And, yes, that's the part that people need to just accept who they are. But if you're a 350lbs tub of goo that has trouble breathing, brother, it ain't just your genes.

There's also the age factor when we talk about metabolism, up to the age of 30, I could eat as much as I wanted, yet I was skinny and weighed a constant 70kg.

Then in the year leading up to my 30th birthday? I gained love handles, got chubby and reached 90kg in a year.Now I actually have to exercise.
:-(

The standard for Obesity really needs to be updated. According to the BMI, I am severely obese at 6', 230lbs. In order to become normal weight, I'd have to lose 50lbs. The optimum weight for a 6' person with a medium frame is 157-170lbs.

Do you know what a 5'11", 170lb person looks like?



I don't want to look like that.

Yeah the BMI index is pretty stupid.

The problem is that it's a set standard of weight vs. height without taking into consideration body shape or build. A very muscular person can weigh the same as an obese one.

5'11", 200lbs. Wayyyy more appropriately sized and my target weight.

I'd say body fat, blood tests, stamina tests, and strength tests would be the more accurate way to rank people's overall health. The problem with those is that they aren't easy or cheap to do as weighing and measuring someone.

Mathias said:

I'd say body fat, blood tests, stamina tests, and strength tests would be the more accurate way to rank people's overall health. The problem with those is that they aren't easy or cheap to do as weighing and measuring someone.

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So considering that the study linked in the article you posted referred to the mean BMI changing overtime, I think we can be relatively comfortable in that maybe gaining a bit of weight is a good thing. And yes, exercise = good.

Indeed, it's all about portion control.

Adammon said:

So considering that the study linked in the article you posted referred to the mean BMI changing overtime, I think we can be relatively comfortable in that maybe gaining a bit of weight is a good thing. And yes, exercise = good.

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Yes, it's using the mean BMI as a means to quantify numbers, but you can't deny there are qualitatively more fat people around.

I always find that amusing because as a fat person I generally feel like the only one around. Everyone has supposedly gotten so fat but not from my perspective.

I live in an outdoor paradise. I can't really make a determination either way. I know that among my group of friends, many are what I would consider 'obese' and all are actively making efforts to slim down through exercise and good eating habits. Fully support that.

My best friend was under so much stress last semester that she just stopped eating as of right now she weighs 103 pounds. And that is after actively trying to gain weight the last month.

So I am stuck both trying to lose weight for myself and support someone in gaining weight. I feel that I did bad bad things in my former lives.

makare said:

I always find that amusing because as a fat person I generally feel like the only one around. Everyone has supposedly gotten so fat but not from my perspective.

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depends on the definition of fat. some people think 10lbs over ideal = FATASS.

My brother has spent the last years hoping to gain weight and being unable to.

I've been dieting for the last decade.

Fun dinner times.

Adammon said:

Do you know what a 5'11", 170lb person looks like?

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They would look almost like me! 6'-1" and 175lbs. Nothing wrong with how I look

. Hell, at my peak last summer when I was working out I was only 180lbs but I was benching almost 200 and able to run 10km comfortably.

Numbers by themselves are meaningless... whether it be BMI, weights and heights... people vary so much in many ways that making judgements on that information is pointless.

I'm very fat, and despite making some effort to correct it I still have a long way to go. Meanwhile, my best friend is working to overcome his anorexia. He's 6'0, and just got his weight up to 125 (which might be the highest it's ever been). We make quite a pair in public.

As I see it, there are 3 main factors: exercise, quality of food, and quantity of food. To hell with special diets and pills, those are really the only 3 things that matter. Overall as a society we have been ignoring exercise while shoveling tons of crap down our mouth. We just have to learn to do better.

Currently 6'4'' and 190lbs. I'm working on getting that to 185lbs.

Though at some point you have to stop focusing on the actual weights and how much of that is actual body fat %.

Last I checked I was around 9% body fat, and still working to get that down a bit more.