WoW: Cataclysm news, notes and reactions.

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More and more Cataclysm news is hitting the official boards and websites, so I thought I'd start a thread for it!

Anyway, the newest news: http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/cataclysm-stat-system-changes/

As many of you know from panels at last year’s BlizzCon and posts here on the forums since then, Cataclysm will bring about major changes to familiar character stats such as Intellect, Armor Penetration, Defense, and others, ultimately designed to make the effects of stats more easily understandable and make gear choices more interesting. As these changes will have a significant impact on how stats work and relate to one another, today we wanted to offer you a closer look at exactly what’s in store and explain some of the rationale before Cataclysm arrives.

The most obvious question these changes raise is \"Why are stats being changed, and why now?\" As the game has matured, we've run into increasingly complex issues with the current stat system. Many stats are inherently confusing, and the way they interrelate can feel convoluted. Attack Power, for example, currently translates to damage, but so does Armor Penetration. Defense provides five different statistical benefits of varying utility. Mana regeneration involves understanding multiple stats and rules and often ends up being irrelevant anyway. In addition, the difference between a \"good stat\" for a class and a \"bad stat\" can be extreme. Some casters want Haste but not Crit; hunters want Armor Penetration but not Haste. There are other overarching issues, as well, such as Intellect not being very exciting for casters despite it being a core stat -- and these are just a few examples.

Our ultimate goal is make gear a more interesting (and less confusing) choice by making each stat valuable to more players. While the reasoning behind some of the following changes may be clear, we understand that you may have questions about some of the less obvious alterations, and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have here on the forums.


What You’ll See on Gear

Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.

Spirit - Come Cataclysm, this stat should only be found on healing gear. Non-healing casters will have other systems in place to regenerate mana, and we are designing special solutions for Elemental shaman and Balance druids who often share gear with healers (more on this below). Raid buffs that currently boost Spirit (such as Blessing of Kings) will only boost the primary stats of Stamina, Strength, Agility, and Intellect. We are also likely changing the five-second rule and other quirks of the current regen system.

Intellect - Intellect will now grant Spell Power (more on this below). Intellect will also provide less mana than it currently does.

Haste - Haste will become more attractive for melee classes by allowing them to recover resources such as energy and runes more quickly. Our intention is for Haste to let you \"do stuff\" more often.

Block Rating - Block is being redesigned to scale better. Blocked attacks will simply hit for 30% less damage. Block rating will improve your chance to block, though overall block chances will be lower than they are today.

Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

Mastery - This is a new stat that will allow players to become better at whatever makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. It's directly tied to talents, so what you gain from improving this stat is entirely dependent upon your class and the talent specialization you choose. We’ll talk more about specific Mastery benefits in the future.

Armor - The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Strength, Agility, Hit Rating, Expertise, and Critical Strike Rating - These will all still appear on gear as well. Aside from situations mentioned elsewhere in this list, in general these will function similarly to how they do now, though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (more on this below) -- are likely to change.


Being Removed from Items

Attack Power - This stat will no longer be present on most items as a flat value, though it will still show up on some process. Strength and Agility, which will be present on items, will grant the appropriate amount of Attack Power (generally 2 Attack Power per point of Strength or Agility) depending upon which stat a particular class favors. Agility may provide less Crit than it currently does.

Spell Power - Spell Power is another stat that you'll no longer see present on most items. Instead, as mentioned above, Intellect will grant Spell Power. One exception is that caster weapons will still have Spell Power. This allows us to make weapons proportionately more powerful for casters in the same way they are for melee classes.

Armor Penetration - This stat will no longer be present on items. Armor Penetration will still exist in talents and abilities.

Shield Block Value - This stat will no longer be present on items, since the amount blocked is always proportional to the amount of damage done. Talents and other effects might still modify the damage-reduction percentage from 30%, however.


Going Away Completely

MP5 - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Holy paladins and Restoration shaman will be redesigned to benefit from Spirit.

Defense - Defense is being removed from the game entirely. Tanking classes should expect to become uncrittable versus creatures just by shifting into Defensive Stance, Frost Presence, Bear Form, or by using Righteous Fury.

Spell Ranks - Spell ranks will cease to exist. All spells will have one rank and will scale appropriately with level. The levels at which you can learn certain spells are being changed in order to fill in some of the gaps, and we will be introducing some new spells to learn along the way as well.

Weapon Skill - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Classes will start with all the weapon skills they need to know and will not need to improve them.


What Else You Should Know

Combat ratings - All ratings will be much harder to \"cap out\" at maximum gear levels. Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs.

Reforging - While these changes will go a long way to making a wider variety of stats more attractive, we understand that sometimes you simply don’t want more Hit Rating on your gear or you’d rather have more Haste than more Crit. In Cataclysm, we are going to give players a way to replace stats on gear as part of the existing profession system. As a general rule of thumb, you’ll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat. While some conversions (like converting Stamina to Strength) won’t be permitted, the goal is to let you customize your gear more.

Gems - We are changing the gem colors of a few stats as a result of these adjustments. For example, Hit is likely to be blue instead of yellow. We'll have more details on this in the future.

Changes to Existing Gear

As with previous expansions, we plan to roll out these changes and modify all existing gear shortly before Cataclysm launches, though it’s still too early to say exactly when. For the most part, the gear you have will still be good for you, though there will be exceptions, such as warriors using leather and mail armor.

If you are a tank (druids excepted), expect to see:
No more Defense on gear. Existing Defense becomes Dodge, Parry, or Block Rating.
No more Block Value on gear. Existing Block Value becomes Block Rating.
You’ll have as much Stamina as you’re used to, though you may notice your tanking plate has a bit less Stamina than a comparable piece of DPS plate, since we tend to take the gem budget out of your most attractive stat.
Bonus Armor on gear will go down slightly.

If you are a melee DPS class, druid tank, or hunter, expect to see:
A lot more Stamina. Bear-form Stamina scaling will be lowered as a result.
Strength if you wear plate. Agility if you wear mail or leather.
Existing Attack Power becomes Agility and Stamina.Armor Penetration becomes Haste or Crit.
No Intellect on melee gear. Hunters won’t need Intellect since they will no longer use mana. Shaman and Retribution paladins will get mana and spell damage in other ways.

If you are a DPS caster, expect to see:
A lot more Stamina.
All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
No Spirit. You won’t miss Spirit, though, because you won’t need it for DPS or mana regen.

If you are a healer, expect to see:
A lot more Stamina.
All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
Spirit instead of MP5. You’ll probably be happy with Spirit, though, because mana regen is going to matter more than it does currently. Healing paladins and shaman will benefit more from Spirit than they do currently.

If you are a Balance druid or Elemental shaman:
You will still share gear with Restoration druids and shaman.
Your gear will have Spirit on it. It won’t have Hit on it.
You will have a talent that converts Spirit to Hit. We will adjust talents accordingly so that you want about as much Spirit as, say, a warlock wants Hit.
Hit on rings and other such gear will still benefit you.
Raid buffs will no longer boost Spirit, so you shouldn’t find yourself unexpectedly over the Hit cap because of buffs.

Many lower-level items with nonsensical combinations of stats, such as Agility and Spirit, will be changed. We're also updating quest rewards, trade skills, and loot drops to support better itemization for class builds that weren't widely available or used prior to The Burning Crusade (such as Balance druids).

We're aware this is a lot of information to take in, but this is still only a piece of the larger picture, and many of these changes rely on integration with other systems we haven't yet discussed in detail. In the weeks and months ahead, we'll continue to tell you more about these changes, along with all of the new and exciting features we have planned for Cataclysm.
Some thoughts:

YES THANK YOU GOD NO MORE WEAPON SKILL. This was such an out-dated and stupid system. Now instead of having to constantly keep/swap weapon types, or wait on using an upgrade, I can just start using new weapons immediately.

Losing ArPen as a major stat on items is great. It was a really number-crunch intensive and complicated to work with stat and usually came at the cost of using any other important stat for your character.

The "new" Haste is interesting to me. Sounds like if it works as intended, it's going to be really valuable.
 
The one change that makes me the most curious is the alteration to Defense. I knew the stat was going to be deleted, but I figured they would roll the "Uncritable" status to a talent in each classes viable "Protection" trees. Instead, they are transferring the status to the defensive posture of each class (Defensive Stance, Bear Form, Frost Presence, and Righteous Fury). I am curious how this is going to change the tanking game, since this makes it a lot more viable to offspecs to tank successfully. This does not mean a Ret Paladin is going to suddenly find himself tanking Deathwing, you still need all the sexy mitigation and avoidance stats found in the more tanking centric talents, but the lower end dungeon game is going to change a lot.
 
Even though I don't play anymore, when I read the change to weapon skill (as in, the deletion forever and ever), Ode to Joy started playing in my head.

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

All I heard was Ode to Joy after I read the weapon skill change.

You’ll have as much Stamina as you’re used to, though you may notice your tanking plate has a bit less Stamina than a comparable piece of DPS plate, since we tend to take the gem budget out of your most attractive stat.
What? So....what? Why? I know but, fuuuuck. Why bone tanks that way? If you're gonna take gem budget from the best stat, stop making them fucking yellow!
 
I am not happy with Hunters getting totally restructured AGAIN. Now after 5 years of playing with mana, I'll have to learn to be a ranged rogue.
 
I am not happy with Hunters getting totally restructured AGAIN. Now after 5 years of playing with mana, I'll have to learn to be a ranged rogue.
I actually am happy about it, I always hated the fact we used mana. I just hope it really generates quickly. Mostly, I am excited about the ammo and pet changes.
 
I am not happy with Hunters getting totally restructured AGAIN. Now after 5 years of playing with mana, I'll have to learn to be a ranged rogue.
Dude I play an Enh Shaman, I've had my stat priority changed more times than there are patches, I know what you mean.

I think Focus will be fun though, I'm swapping to a Hunter with the xpac most likely.
 
New PTR is leaking more information about the upcoming Cataclysm Events. We got music and voice overs for both the Gnomeregan and Echo Isles invasions. Also Blizzard pretty much confirmed that both rumors I mentioned before in another thread are pretty much true. The plan is to have an event in a patch before Cataclysm that will involve retaking both locations, and then once they are retaken and Cataclysm is released, both areas will become the starting areas for the Gnomes and Trolls, and follow a format close to that of the Goblins and Worgen (heavily phased).

It is going to be an interesting couple of weeks. :p
 

fade

Staff member
Aw. I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Weapon Skill. It had an air of realism. Though, maybe it should scale with level. A 70 hunter who has never touched a fist weapon probably still knows a little about how to use one.
 
Aw. I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Weapon Skill. It had an air of realism. Though, maybe it should scale with level. A 70 hunter who has never touched a fist weapon probably still knows a little about how to use one.
Weapon Skill was always one of those things that never really fit. I remember on my Paladin after I got a Polarm at around 68, I had to sit out in Terrokar doing nothing but whacking Treants that healed themselves just to level up my Polarm skills to usable level. While it was "real", it never really meshed with the philosophy of WoW, and it caused Blizzard all manner of issues by people trying to circumvent it using bugs and unintended methods, like the Broken Corruptors in Shadowmoon Valley.

I really think in this instance the game will be better without it. I am more bummed that spell ranks are gone, meaning you only have to train once in a blue moon for a new skill. That takes away that feeling of "awesome" when I would go to the trainer and unload tons of new ranks, but I understand why they are doing it.

Any known time frame for the invasion?
Rumors says the patch after this next one, so 3.3.4
 
I really think I want to play when Cataclysm comes out, but I really want to start fresh. Played a priest healer for 5 years, and am just kind of sick of it. Plus all my friends quit playing, so I have nobody to play with on the server I'm on.
 
Cataclysm will be the best time to start fresh. The whole game is changing dynamics in the beginning, middle, and end game. You can make it even more unique by playing the other faction, if you concentrated on one faction through most of the game originally. I am still fighting myself over whether I am going to start over with a character.
 
C

Chibibar

If I did start again (even with new character) probably back on my old server (runetotem) since I do have a level 80 armorsmith/miner (maxed out) for gold income for my "newbies" ;)
 
Wait, invading gnomeregan whatnow?

More details on this please? This may be the thing that finally drags me back in, depending on what it actually means.
 
More details on this please? This may be the thing that finally drags me back in, depending on what it actually means.
In one of the upcoming patches, as a lead-in to Cataclysm, we are going to have invasions occurring with both factions in regards to the "piggyback" races.

The Gnomes are going to be invading Gnomeregan. The Trolls are going to invade the Echo Isles. We as the players will be taking part in these invasions, and it is said once the fight is over the Gnomes and Trolls will finally have a unique city and starting zone similar to the Goblins and Worgen. Whether the city will be a "major" city remains to be seen, but the event information has really get gathering steam as each PTR adds new information and updates to the Gnomes and Trolls. For instance, Vol'jin just got a gear upgrade and a unique voodoo mask to make him look more like a leader and less like a random troll standing in Grommash Hold. Mekkatorque also got a upgrade, and wears the Gnomeregan Tabard with some new gear.

While the PTR and data mining has gotten the majority of info, Blizzard did hint about the upcoming event in the Twitter QA.

Q. The 3.3.3 PTR included some unreleased 'event' details (no spoilers). Should we expect to see that event in the lifetime of 3.3.3?
A. Something leaked in the patch? That never happens! The plan is for these events to go live sometime before Cataclysm ships. We don’t have an exact time yet, but we would like players to have a good month or two to play through these events to help build the back story for what is going to happen in Cataclysm.
Q. Will existing races have their starting areas reworked to provide a more \"epic\" experience similar to the Goblin/Worgen starts?
A. Not quite at the Goblin / Worgen level, but we are looking at all the original start zones, especially for two races who feel a little disenfranchised at the moment.

A#2. We have big plans in store for both the trolls and the gnomes in regards to their starting experience but you probably already know that.


We are also planning to spice up the starting zones for all of the other races as well. You can expect gameplay changes to the actual zones, as well as improved quest flows and all new items to match.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, sound files have been posted. If you wish to spoil how the events are going to go down, you can listen to them here. The Gnomeregan sounds are both annoying AND hilarious.


 
Actually I'm currently wondering how screwed my disc priest is going to be in the time between 4.0 -> Cata release, just because all her gear is "DPS gear". It shouldn't matter once the expansion goes live, but they always release that game altering mechanics patch a couple of months early.
 
Actually I'm currently wondering how screwed my disc priest is going to be in the time between 4.0 -> Cata release, just because all her gear is "DPS gear". It shouldn't matter once the expansion goes live, but they always release that game altering mechanics patch a couple of months early.
Yeah, they're trying some things that sound just plain weird. Spirit as a wanted stat for Elemental Shamans, as an example. Or removing Int from all Mail, and having Shamans get mp some other way. I've been playing Enhance since the start of BC, I don't think I can handle having the majority of my important stats changed yet again.
 
Actually I'm currently wondering how screwed my disc priest is going to be in the time between 4.0 -> Cata release, just because all her gear is "DPS gear". It shouldn't matter once the expansion goes live, but they always release that game altering mechanics patch a couple of months early.
Yeah, they're trying some things that sound just plain weird. Spirit as a wanted stat for Elemental Shamans, as an example. Or removing Int from all Mail, and having Shamans get mp some other way. I've been playing Enhance since the start of BC, I don't think I can handle having the majority of my important stats changed yet again.[/QUOTE]

For Ele Shamans and boomkin, it sounds more like they don't want to introduce yet another grouping of gear in leather/mail and will simply have talents converting the stats of healer gear into useful stats for ele/boom. So you're not going to want to stack Spirit, but what spirit you have will contribute in a DPS-useful fashion.

For Enh Shamans, I suspect they'll increase the AP bonus from Agi from 1:1 (what it is currently) to 2:1 to make up for losing the Ap from Int ability.

How much mana do endgame Enh Shamans actually need? They mention Ret Pallies will also have other ways of getting mana but I don't know any Ret Pallies who gear for Int/Mana anyway - they just go for straight melee DPS plate.
 
Weapon Skill was always one of those things that never really fit. I remember on my Paladin after I got a Polarm at around 68, I had to sit out in Terrokar doing nothing but whacking Treants that healed themselves just to level up my Polarm skills to usable level
Weapon Skill was originally one of my favorite parts of the game, inspiring me to create an entire tabletop system based off it. Originally, to solve the "level 70 swordsman picking up an ax for the first time" problem, I had different weapon skills contribute points to each other (so if you had 50 points in axes, you'd be able to apply 30 points of them towards polearms). That would work fine for Wow, system it's all handled by computer. It was a bit too much math for a tabletop game.

What I eventually did with the tabletop system was consolidate everything into Melee, Ranged and Throwing, and have weapon specialization represented with abilities, which is basically covered by talents anyway. I think that would work fine for Wow (perhaps with Wands being a separate category)
 
I sit at about 12k mana, give or take, unbuffed. I am wearing one piece of leather but otherwise it's all mail. Enhance Shamans (if you play/spec right) can regen mana fast and often so it's not a huge issue. However Maelstrom Weapon and your fire totem DPS eat mana quickly (Magma totem and Nova both use about 1k mana). My guess is they'll turn the Int > AP talent into an AP/Agi > mp talent.

Personally I'm excited to see how Focus will work with Hunters. I know HOW it's going to work, but I want to see it in action.
 
I sit at about 12k mana, give or take, unbuffed. I am wearing one piece of leather but otherwise it's all mail. Enhance Shamans (if you play/spec right) can regen mana fast and often so it's not a huge issue. However Maelstrom Weapon and your fire totem DPS eat mana quickly (Magma totem and Nova both use about 1k mana). My guess is they'll turn the Int > AP talent into an AP/Agi > mp talent.
I am of the opinion they are going to tone down Shamanic Rage and make it more passive, maybe moving the damage reduction to another activated spell with a new extra bonus. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

Personally I'm excited to see how Focus will work with Hunters. I know HOW it's going to work, but I want to see it in action.
Way more excited over those pet changes they hinted on the twitter chat. I hope that becomes a reality more then anything else.
 
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