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So it looks like Raynor and Mengsk get their original voice actors back... but Kerrigan won't... that's so damned weak!

http://sclegacy.com/news/23-sc2/428-jun ... nt-wrap-up

First up, we have new information on the status of the StarCraft II voice actors. JoyStiq reported that Jim Raynor and Arcturus Mengsk will have their original voice actors return in StarCraft II. Though Blizzplanet has confirmed that Robert Clotworthy has indeed reprised his role, Glynnis Talken Campbell confirmed to us that she will not:

\"\"As for Kerrigan, I think things are pretty set in stone. I got a very definitive call from the new audio director when they made the decision not to use me, saying they wanted something different. I can't imagine them changing their minds now unless there's a shakeup in Blizzard's corporate world. I have to say I'm surprised (and pleased) that Robert has been brought back--the fans should be delighted to hear that! If nothing else, all the articles and comments have been flattering, and I thank you for forwarding the links. It's been an honor to serve as your Queen of Blades...\"\"


StarCraft: Legacy would like to congratule Robert Clotworthy on his return to the StarCraft universe! Indeed, it appears that Blizzard has listened to the voices of the fans in this matter. Yet for one reason or another, it seems that Blizzard is adamant on their decision to not recast Glynnis Campbell.

Click to expand...

They've been flip-flopping on this since the beginning... just bring all the available voices back... it's the right, in continuity thing to do.

why change the voices?? I love Ms. Campbell!!!

Perhaps the storyline calls for the continued evolution of Kerrigan, and they feel a different voice best suits her now.

Or maybe Campbell wanted too much money? Who the hell knows.

Corporate bullcrap is going to slowly kill blizzard.

I'm still pissed about the fact that they won't be supporting LAN play and there's the ever looming rumor of profitizing battlenet.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........................

Why are you saying no? Aren't you the new voice?

also...

Broodwars spoiler

[spoiler:119zxtw8]didn't mengsk get killed...?[/spoiler:119zxtw8]

Selgeron said:

also...

Broodwars spoiler

[spoiler:3a5jm9kl]didn't mengsk get killed...?[/spoiler:3a5jm9kl]

Click to expand...

I never played SC, but lemme guess:

[spoiler:3a5jm9kl]He got better[/spoiler:3a5jm9kl]

Selgeron said:

also...

Broodwars spoiler

[spoiler:1blrhh5g]didn't mengsk get killed...?[/spoiler:1blrhh5g]

Click to expand...

[spoiler:1blrhh5g]No. Kerrigan bashed his fleet to hell, and I believe the epilogue reads that he went off to 'lick his wounds'. But he escaped death, and Kerrigan stayed on Char to rule her brood and bide her time.[/spoiler:1blrhh5g]

Also, I will miss the voice of Kerrigan. Fave character voice by far.

I can't wait to see how old and Clint Eastwoody Jim Raynor sounds.

Selgeron said:

also...

Broodwars spoiler

[spoiler:23h7t6qm]didn't mengsk get killed...?[/spoiler:23h7t6qm]

Click to expand...

[spoiler:23h7t6qm]You're thinking of the General, whose name escapes me. Edmonton?[/spoiler:23h7t6qm]

[spoiler:3lim90am]Kerrigan killed Edmund Duke and Fenix in SC:BW[/spoiler:3lim90am]

Also, the game's like 11 years old, why are we spoilering?

Gkbur said:

[spoiler:wz93glu8]Kerrigan killed Edmund Duke and Fenix in SC:BW[/spoiler:wz93glu8]

Also, the game's like 11 years old, why are we spoilering?

Click to expand...

[spoiler:wz93glu8]Aeris Dies
King Kong Dies
Vader is Luke's Father[/spoiler:wz93glu8]

Oh? [spoiler:2ox1vhio]Spock dies[/spoiler:2ox1vhio]

But [spoiler:2ox1vhio]He gets better[/spoiler:2ox1vhio]

[spoiler:393e8vwn]You will die alone[/spoiler:393e8vwn]

Shegokigo said:

[spoiler:1htl8nb7]You will die alone[/spoiler:1htl8nb7]

Click to expand...

[spoiler:1htl8nb7]Not if I take you with me.[/spoiler:1htl8nb7]

AshburnerX said:

[spoiler:272rw8vg]Not if I take you with me.[/spoiler:272rw8vg]

Click to expand...

http://www.tubezik.com/watch.php?type=y ... gk37TvIR8E

It's funny - last time I said that Blizzard have smelled money and are now going to want more, I got slammed on this very forum . Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years? Diablo II and that's it. Starcraft II has shown to make nearly no advances technically - it's basically the same game with improved graphics, a new story and a different balance. Diablo III looks to be not much different either except in a bad way. Well, I dunno. I don't really consider Blizzard as a developer I look out for.

Icarus said:

It's funny - last time I said that Blizzard have smelled money and are now going to want more, I got slammed on this very forum . Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years? Diablo II and that's it. Starcraft II has shown to make nearly no advances technically - it's basically the same game with improved graphics, a new story and a different balance. Diablo III looks to be not much different either except in a bad way. Well, I dunno. I don't really consider Blizzard as a developer I look out for.

Click to expand...

Really? D3 looks like D2 with new graphics? No potions (using health globes), barbarians use something they are calling Rage orbs, no insane rarities like in D2, no immunities like D2, and the use of boss special attacks (like the one previewed in the video of the barbarian being picked up and chewed on).

Not seeing the same game thing.

Krisken said:

Icarus said:

It's funny - last time I said that Blizzard have smelled money and are now going to want more, I got slammed on this very forum . Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years? Diablo II and that's it. Starcraft II has shown to make nearly no advances technically - it's basically the same game with improved graphics, a new story and a different balance. Diablo III looks to be not much different either except in a bad way. Well, I dunno. I don't really consider Blizzard as a developer I look out for.

Click to expand...

Really? D3 looks like D2 with new graphics? No potions (using health globes), barbarians use something they are calling Rage orbs, no insane rarities like in D2, no immunities like D2, and the use of boss special attacks (like the one previewed in the video of the barbarian being picked up and chewed on).

Not seeing the same game thing.

Click to expand...

"except in a bad way" *points* But seriously, big fucking deal. You really consider those small changes as making it into a whole new game? They're TWEAKS. A mod made in a single day could have changed Diablo II to do all that except for the special boss attacks which are hardly that big a deal either.

Icarus said:

A mod made in a single day could have changed Diablo II to do all that except for the special boss attacks which are hardly that big a deal either.

Click to expand...

Ok, make that mod, so that we can all play diablo 3.


Go on... I'll wait.


Oh wait,

Icarus said:

serious gamers

Click to expand...

Oh, you're one of -them-. Well then, nevermind.

Icarus said:

Krisken said:

Icarus said:

It's funny - last time I said that Blizzard have smelled money and are now going to want more, I got slammed on this very forum . Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years? Diablo II and that's it. Starcraft II has shown to make nearly no advances technically - it's basically the same game with improved graphics, a new story and a different balance. Diablo III looks to be not much different either except in a bad way. Well, I dunno. I don't really consider Blizzard as a developer I look out for.

Click to expand...

Really? D3 looks like D2 with new graphics? No potions (using health globes), barbarians use something they are calling Rage orbs, no insane rarities like in D2, no immunities like D2, and the use of boss special attacks (like the one previewed in the video of the barbarian being picked up and chewed on).

Not seeing the same game thing.

Click to expand...

"except in a bad way" *points* But seriously, big smurfing deal. You really consider those small changes as making it into a whole new game? They're TWEAKS. A mod made in a single day could have changed Diablo II to do all that except for the special boss attacks which are hardly that big a deal either.

Click to expand...

I still don't understand your complaint. it's a different game because it has different skills, different way of doing things, and yet in spite of this keeps the flavor of the series. It's a series because of the similarities.

You don't seem to want Diablo 3. You want a different game altogether.

Krisken said:

no insane rarities like in D2, no immunities like D2

Click to expand...

Well look who's never played before 1.10 or at least the expansion.

Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years?

Click to expand...

As someone who's been randomly watching the Blizz forums for the past 10 years or so, i can say that the complaints and stupidity have always been constant... here's a good article on it: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Starcr ... S_Business ([strike:kofogkaa]SFW atm[/strike:kofogkaa], NSFW - yeah, checked again and it's not any more... figures)

@Li3n said:

Krisken said:

no insane rarities like in D2, no immunities like D2

Click to expand...

Well look who's never played before 1.10 or at least the expansion.

Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years?

Click to expand...

As someone who's been randomly watching the Blizz forums for the past 10 years or so, i can say that the complaints and stupidity have always been constant... here's a good article on it: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Starcr ... S_Business (SFW atm, just don;t click on any links...)

Click to expand...

Bzzzzt! Sorry, but I've been playing since it came out. Hell, I played Diablo on the Playstation.

Krisken said:

Bzzzzt! Sorry, but I've been playing since it came out. Hell, I played Diablo on the Playstation.

Click to expand...

Then you should probably prove it next time by not talking BS... k, 10x.

@Li3n said:

Krisken said:

Bzzzzt! Sorry, but I've been playing since it came out. *, I played Diablo on the Playstation.

Click to expand...

Then you should probably prove it next time by not talking BS... k, 10x.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess since I'm still playing the game and the game has been played in this fashion for the last 5 years, I base my observations on that. Since over half the time the game has been out has been played in this fashion, I don't think it's unreasonable to compare it in this way.

More fun to be snide, though, isn't it?

Shegokigo said:

AshburnerX said:

[spoiler:tqke1ns7]Not if I take you with me.[/spoiler:tqke1ns7]

Click to expand...

http://www.tubezik.com/watch.php?type=y ... gk37TvIR8E

Click to expand...

Oh god it's been years since I saw that...

Krisken said:

You don't seem to want Diablo 3. You want a different game altogether.

Click to expand...

What I wanted:

- a nice cool gothic game
-- what we got: a WoW bastard child with blue and green hues everywhere and semi-cartoon textures

- the same level of awesome music for Diablo 3.
-- what we got: music that feels more WoW than Diablo. Several upbeat songs, too orchestral, not enough dark and moody or gothic

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Seriously, this is Diablo II getting raped by the big brother WoW and this unloved bastard child is Diablo III. Diablo II's music still gives me chills - THAT is how amazing it is - but I listened to Diablo III's music a lot and it does nothing to me.

Icarus said:

It's funny - last time I said that Blizzard have smelled money and are now going to want more, I got slammed on this very forum . Blizzard IS losing popularity with the more serious gamers - what games have they release for them in the past 10 years? Diablo II and that's it. Starcraft II has shown to make nearly no advances technically - it's basically the same game with improved graphics, a new story and a different balance. Diablo III looks to be not much different either except in a bad way. Well, I dunno. I don't really consider Blizzard as a developer I look out for.

Click to expand...

Hide behind me, I'll protect you from the rapid idiot Blizzard fanbois.

Ugh, whatever. I give up. This is why I don't post on Blizzard forums.

Krisken said:

Ugh, whatever. I give up. This is why I don't post on Blizzard forums.

Click to expand...

I'll agree with you that he's jumping the gun as far as both StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't released so we can't make a judgment on them. As far as Blizzard being a lazy, money-grubbing developer, he's spot on. They're main franchises both completely rip off Games Workshop, not to mention the lore is written out like it's by a soap opera writer on heroin. There are so many plot loops and holes due to the million stories going on in WoW that it boggles the mind.

Icarus said:

Krisken said:

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

No, what Diablo 2 had was an over complicated mess for combat. It was very beginner inaccessible and you really had to know what you were doing if you wanted to get the most out of it, and even then things didn't always go smoothly. In short, it was a game designed for the old school of gaming, where challenge was everything and anyone who couldn't cut it was shown the door. There is nothing WRONG with this style of gaming... but it's dying out as more and more companies realize that the "hardcore fanbase" is going to buy whatever they put out.

This is why Diablo is changing (other than the fact that the original design team has since left the company and failed at making their own games): Blizzard wants to attract more casual gamers. In order to attract casual gamers, you need to keep things simple. Characters need to be bright and colorful to stand out against enemies to help new school players manage the action. Complicated ability trees need to be broken down into their bare essentials. In short... everything needs to be made simple to understand because the new players coming in would never be able to compete against the older generation without the help.

If your not willing to accept that gaming is changing, there's the door. Blizzard doesn't need you around and they don't owe you a god damn thing for all the hours of fun THEY gave you. The new generation of gamers aren't so picky and their money is just as green as yours.

Chazwozel said:

They're main franchises both completely rip off Games Workshop.

Click to expand...

No... both franchises were both originally intended to BE Games Workshop franchise titles, but the deals fell through for both games. So Blizzard was forced to rework the content into something more original so they wouldn't have to dump the work they had put into the titles. In short, it's Games Workshop's fault that some of the best selling games of all time don't have anything to do with their franchises, not Blizzard.

AshburnerX said:

Icarus said:

Krisken said:

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

No, what Diablo 2 had was an over complicated mess for combat. It was very beginner inaccessible and you really had to know what you were doing if you wanted to get the most out of it, and even then things didn't always go smoothly. In short, it was a game designed for the old school of gaming, where challenge was everything and anyone who couldn't cut it was shown the door. There is nothing WRONG with this style of gaming... but it's dying out as more and more companies realize that the "hardcore fanbase" is going to buy whatever they put out.

This is why Diablo is changing (other than the fact that the original design team has since left the company and failed at making their own games): Blizzard wants to attract more casual gamers. In order to attract casual gamers, you need to keep things simple. Characters need to be bright and colorful to stand out against enemies to help new school players manage the action. Complicated ability trees need to be broken down into their bare essentials. In short... everything needs to be made simple to understand because the new players coming in would never be able to compete against the older generation without the help.

If your not willing to accept that gaming is changing, there's the door. Blizzard doesn't need you around and they don't owe you a god damn thing for all the hours of fun THEY gave you. The new generation of gamers aren't so picky and their money is just as green as yours.

Chazwozel said:

They're main franchises both completely rip off Games Workshop.

Click to expand...

No... both franchises were both originally intended to BE Games Workshop franchise titles, but the deals fell through for both games. So Blizzard was forced to "rework" the content into something more original so they wouldn't have to dump the work they had put into the titles. In short, it's Games Workshop's fault that some of the best selling games of all time don't have anything to do with their franchises, not Blizzard.

Click to expand...

Rework the content to be almost a knockoff of Warhammer and Warhammer 3000. Gotcha.

Time to get back to writing my original work: Lord of the Blings.

Chazwozel said:

AshburnerX said:

Chazwozel said:

They're main franchises both completely rip off Games Workshop.

Click to expand...

No... both franchises were both originally intended to BE Games Workshop franchise titles, but the deals fell through for both games. So Blizzard was forced to "rework" the content into something more original so they wouldn't have to dump the work they had put into the titles. In short, it's Games Workshop's fault that some of the best selling games of all time don't have anything to do with their franchises, not Blizzard.

Click to expand...

Rework the content to be almost a knockoff of Warhammer and Warhammer 3000. Gotcha.

Time to get back to writing my original work: Lord of the Blings.

Click to expand...

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

And MadTV actually already did a Lord of the Bling :tongue:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc0bkiji8b4:1nujk7h6][/youtube:1nujk7h6]

AshburnerX said:

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

Click to expand...

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

OK, so can we all agree that WoW has raped WC lore?!

But SC was never intended to be a GW game, sorry... WC1 might have been, but there's nothing definitive about that either...

Oh, and the 'nid book where they look more like the Zerg came out in 2001... though some minis could have come out earlier (if you have any sources either way i'd appreciate it).

They're both stealing from Tolkien, Heinlein, Moorcock and Alien though...

Krisken said:

@Li3n said:

Krisken said:

Bzzzzt! Sorry, but I've been playing since it came out. *, I played Diablo on the Playstation.

Click to expand...

Then you should probably prove it next time by not talking BS... k, 10x.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess since I'm still playing the game and the game has been played in this fashion for the last 5 years, I base my observations on that. Since over half the time the game has been out has been played in this fashion, I don't think it's unreasonable to compare it in this way.

More fun to be snide, though, isn't it?

Click to expand...

Of course it is... you didn't know that already?!

But you might as well complain that the balance at relese isn't as good as in the previous one after 8 years of balancing... give them a break! They don't have to put in everything that was in the previous ones, especially those things that made the game so item and build dependant that it became as enjoyable as a MMO...

What I wanted:

- a nice cool gothic game
-- what we got: a WoW bastard child with blue and green hues everywhere and semi-cartoon textures

- the same level of awesome music for Diablo 3.
-- what we got: music that feels more WoW than Diablo. Several upbeat songs, too orchestral, not enough dark and moody or gothic

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Seriously, this is Diablo II getting raped by the big brother WoW and this unloved bastard child is Diablo III. Diablo II's music still gives me chills - THAT is how amazing it is - but I listened to Diablo III's music a lot and it does nothing to me.

Click to expand...

OMG, it has colour... you know what else has colour, WoW... so they're the same... oh cry me a river.

Remember how SC2 looked at the start?! Or SC1:



As for cartoon textures... sure, Diablo 2 was so realistic it looked nothing like animation... :eyeroll:

but hey, enjoy your desaturated gray on gray game:



I swear, it's like you all played with the gamma on low...

Chazwozel said:

AshburnerX said:

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

Click to expand...

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

Click to expand...

I thinking apples and oranges, are you saying blizzard games are bad? They get rated fairly good and many people enjoy them and think they are good.

Or are you implying that transformers 2 is a bad rip off of previous transformers?

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

crono1224 said:

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

Click to expand...

Green orcs = warhammer... Not to mentionthe whole Demons from another dimension where magic also comes from... and then going to a space setting heavily inspired by Starship Troopers... (protoss = skinnies with eldar powers)

@Li3n said:

crono1224 said:

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

Click to expand...

Green orcs = warhammer... Not to mentionthe whole Demons from another dimension where magic also comes from... and then going to a space setting heavily inspired by Starship Troopers... (protoss = skinnies with eldar powers)

Click to expand...

Color matters? bah


Also ya warcraft lore is going to have big troubles with WoW i just think they never gave it enough thought like they didn't expect it to be so popular that they would actually have to make expansions and tie shit together rather than be like, well this section in history is cool how can we involve that.

crono1224 said:

Color matters? bah

Click to expand...

It does when you where obviously familiar with the source material and no one else was using the same colour orcs (and their personality matches well enough).

It's like making your vampires be destroyed by sunlight just after you went to see Nosferatu at the cinema... it's hard to call it a coincidence...

@Li3n said:

crono1224 said:

Color matters? bah

Click to expand...

It does when you where obviously familiar with the source material and no one else was using the same colour orcs (and their personality matches well enough).

It's like making your vampires be destroyed by sunlight just after you went to see Nosferatu at the cinema... it's hard to call it a coincidence...

Click to expand...

Ehh, there is only so many colors something can be without being really off the wall though they could be more neutral, weaknesses probably vary much more though.

Like let's say brown (D&D), like most orcs at the time?! And how Blizzard made the uncorrupted ones?! Blizzard was always a slave to pop culture... and never very original with their settings... it was always polish that they where actually good at...

Going by my previous example, it's pretty obvious of a connection between daylight and our fears being dispelled... Nosferatu was still the inspiration for vampires being destroyed by sunlight...

crono1224 said:

Chazwozel said:

AshburnerX said:

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

Click to expand...

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

Click to expand...

I thinking apples and oranges, are you saying blizzard games are bad? They get rated fairly good and many people enjoy them and think they are good.

Or are you implying that transformers 2 is a bad rip off of previous transformers?

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

Click to expand...

I'm not saying Blizzard games are bad, but the devs of those games are extremely lazy. The reason Blizzard lore is more popular is because Games Workshop was more about books and minis rather than video games. You're going to tap a vastly bigger demographic with video games like Blizzard did. This is where you get Blizzard fanbois who think Blizzard is king of the crop in terms of fantasy.

Ok, so upon reading the thread again, i'd like to apologise to Krisken... i totally misread what you said, instead all that should have been directed at Icarus, who thinks that arbitrary immunity to a character build is a good thing...

Chazwozel said:

AshburnerX said:

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

Click to expand...

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

Click to expand...

while that is true... it is all about marketing

And make it easier to player gain access to X games.

Warhammer is complicated (while it DOES have a richer story) it was harder for players to get into it. Warhammer came out late in terms of video game. Workshop probably STILL kicking themselves in the butt for letting Bliz go (I'm assuming since they were once partners) While Warhammer was first, WoW is easier and more "fun" to play to the public.

You may consider them idiots, but there are more of them and thus more profit to be had than our collective "elitist" gaming view. I do love WoW, Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. I do miss the hard playing style and old school, but the new generation (and there are more of them) of gamers what instant immersion and ease of play. There are some games that have "complicate" element in it, but you know what? Developers will ALWAYS go where the money is.

I mean look at all the "petz" games and puzzle games out there.

Screw "elitist" gamers... they're the idiots that though that MBS would ruin strategy in SC forever...

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. Pissed over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

Warhammer may have a richer lore, but I don't think it has richer stories, because there's little to nothing in terms of character. There's no solid storyline to follow. The series lacks consistent hero-villain; it's mainly about its lore and themes. Yes, there's Gortrek and Felix, but nothing about Warhammer focuses on them. Same with Warhammer 40,000--all the solid plot and character happened in the 30,000 era. Dan Abnett's characters may be the most fleshed out of either franchise, but they don't matter to the 40k universe. They have no impact or bearing on it.

Warcraft is shallow, no doubt, but it has recognizable characters who do affect the story, plot, history, etc.

JCM said:

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. * over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

Click to expand...

They have as much balls to drop their WoW accounts as heroin addicts do to put down the needles. I still get Blizzard email spam begging me to reactivate with all sorts of deals. :eyeroll:

*bows before someone who managed to cut his account*

Chazwozel said:

JCM said:

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. * over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

Click to expand...

They have as much balls to drop their WoW accounts as heroin addicts do to put down the needles. I still get Blizzard email spam begging me to reactivate with all sorts of deals. :eyeroll:

Click to expand...

What? Man. Nobody offers me deals for cancelling my account! Lame.

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

@Li3n said:

What I wanted:

- a nice cool gothic game
-- what we got: a WoW bastard child with blue and green hues everywhere and semi-cartoon textures

- the same level of awesome music for Diablo 3.
-- what we got: music that feels more WoW than Diablo. Several upbeat songs, too orchestral, not enough dark and moody or gothic

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Seriously, this is Diablo II getting raped by the big brother WoW and this unloved bastard child is Diablo III. Diablo II's music still gives me chills - THAT is how amazing it is - but I listened to Diablo III's music a lot and it does nothing to me.

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OMG, it has colour... you know what else has colour, WoW... so they're the same... oh cry me a river.

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OMG you use a straw man argument! Seriously, read what I said. Diablo I nor II did have cartoonish graphics because it was 2D for starters but all sprites were incredibly detailed. Heck, the screenshot you pasted below shows the fine detail. There's no washed out textures - Blizzard even refuse to use proper bump mapping which is also a system they used with World of Warcraft.

http://images.mmosite.com/answer/dict/u ... 9dc121.jpg

Take a look at this screenshot for example: the tiles are a very typical WoW style where they blend with the grass + cartoonish style. They're flat, non-realistic and have no depth to them. The rocks are even worse and also very typical of the WoW art style - while most games use proper bump mapping to create a rock face, Diablo III uses a stylistic representation which "mimics" rock in a cartoon style without being realistic.

In essence, the entire style is made to keep system requirements low because Blizzard know that the average WoW user does not have a killer rig and it's clearly them they're aiming for. With Diablo II having very detailed graphics (even though they were repeated), this feels like a step back. Instead of a gorgeously sinister world, you get a cartoonish look & feel.

@Li3n said:

Remember how SC2 looked at the start?! Or SC1:
http://eter22.files.wordpress.com/2007/ ... _alpha.png

As for cartoon textures... sure, Diablo 2 was so realistic it looked nothing like animation... :eyeroll:

but hey, enjoy your desaturated gray on gray game:

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Another strawman argument. If you got no points, why bother replying?

a) I never mentioned Starcraft. Starcraft worked well with colours. Starcraft was not about a dark world invaded by Satan's minions in a gothic style.
b) I never said the game had to be all grey - but the typically crap blue and green glows where not a single blue or green light source if present is very very lazy and a typical WoW art style. Diablo II wasn't all grey either but the colour scheme added enough colour to still make the darker and greyer areas stand out. It's all about balance and it's obvious the original art team left Blizzard when looking at the wrong balance in all screenshot's I've seen so far.

Anyway, try again instead of dismissing my points with nonsense.

Chazwozel said:

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

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Those aren't really deals unless you have an active account though. Scroll of Resurrection only worked if you're active and you want to get someone else back in (and get a free month by doing so), so they should really be sending those to your friends.

Chazwozel said:

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

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I actually haven't heard a peep from Blizzard since cancelling my WoW account... I considered restarting it about a month ago when a friend reactivated hers, but ultimately decided against it... Oh man, maybe they're trying to control me with telepathy!

Blizzard will never get dollar one from me again after the shit they did when I had lost my internet for a month.

During this period of time, my password was stolen (I blame my best friend who's password was also stolen and he knew my password and login and such) and my account was frozen. When I finally get my ISP switched over and my internet comes back online I find out all this mess had happened. I email Blizzard and ask them basically, "What the hell?" I get told my account is frozen while they investigate. During the week I couldn't log on I notice that while they were too busy to actually fix my shit so I could play, they weren't too busy to bill me for my next month's subscription.

They can go to straight to fucking hell.

Chazwozel said:

There are so many plot loops and holes due to the million stories going on in WoW that it boggles the mind.

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Name two plot holes. Just two.

Chazwozel said:

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

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I get spam from DAoC, CoH, UO and EQ from time to time. Guess that makes them pathetic too? As well as "Why are you leaving us?" application everyone I canceled.

I've never gotten any Blizzard spam. I do think they went overboard with WotLK at first (even I, a casual gamer, was disappointed with how easy some things were, and would appreciate more challenging solo content) but I generally agree with their premise of "fairly easy stuff for the masses with scalable difficulty for the hardcore people."

I think the people complaining about Diablo 3 need to find something better to complain about. The colors aren't just a matter of WoW-izing it and dumbing it down for the masses, it's a matter of reducing eyestrain and adding more variety to the world. So far I think the Dungeon screenshots have been just fine, and we've only seen one outdoor area which could maybe have been a little darker, but didn't feel fundamentally "unDiablo-like" to me.

@Li3n said:

Ok, so upon reading the thread again, i'd like to apologise to Krisken... i totally misread what you said, instead all that should have been directed at Icarus, who thinks that arbitrary immunity to a character build is a good thing...

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It's all good. I admit I was a little baffled by your response!

In my experience-
Monster immunities, the Iron Maiden curse and other almost insta-death monster effects, and win-the-lottery rarity on high end runes make for NPE's, or negative play experience. Add to that how hard it is to distinguish some of the enemies from their surroundings even in brighter environments (Act 3, anyone?), and you have a game that seems to frustrate more players than provide a meaningful challenge. Dying 8 times in Chaos Sanctuary because you use physical attacks and were in the middle of a zeal/whirlwind/frenzy is not an added challenge, it's a middle finger to the way you decided to play.

As to the complaint made earlier that Blizzard doesn't cater to hardcore gamers- I don't think they should. I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

Krisken said:

I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

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Just for you Krisken:

Shegokigo said:

Krisken said:

I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

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Just for you Krisken:

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Don't knock it, those unicorns are going to kick ass!

WarCraft 3 was supposed to have unicorns in it at some point (the Archmage was supposed to ride them... later I think they were just replaced with black horses) and they actually WERE pretty badass looking.

Raemon777 said:

WarCraft 3 was supposed to have unicorns in it at some point (the Archmage was supposed to ride them... later I think they were just replaced with black horses) and they actually WERE pretty badass looking.

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[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n2VVTUXHgA:14l0pi2g][/youtube:14l0pi2g]

Waitr, are those the original unicorns, or the one some guys wanted to sell on t-shirts before Blizz had it's lawyers stop it?

Icarus said:

OMG you use a straw man argument! Seriously, read what I said. Diablo I nor II did have cartoonish graphics because it was 2D for starters but all sprites were incredibly detailed. Heck, the screenshot you pasted below shows the fine detail. There's no washed out textures - Blizzard even refuse to use proper bump mapping which is also a system they used with World of Warcraft.

http://images.mmosite.com/answer/dict/u ... 9dc121.jpg

Take a look at this screenshot for example: the tiles are a very typical WoW style where they blend with the grass + cartoonish style. They're flat, non-realistic and have no depth to them. The rocks are even worse and also very typical of the WoW art style - while most games use proper bump mapping to create a rock face, Diablo III uses a stylistic representation which \"mimics\" rock in a cartoon style without being realistic.

In essence, the entire style is made to keep system requirements low because Blizzard know that the average WoW user does not have a killer rig and it's clearly them they're aiming for. With Diablo II having very detailed graphics (even though they were repeated), this feels like a step back. Instead of a gorgeously sinister world, you get a cartoonish look & feel.

a) I never mentioned Starcraft. Starcraft worked well with colours. Starcraft was not about a dark world invaded by Satan's minions in a gothic style.
b) I never said the game had to be all grey - but the typically crap blue and green glows where not a single blue or green light source if present is very very lazy and a typical WoW art style. Diablo II wasn't all grey either but the colour scheme added enough colour to still make the darker and greyer areas stand out. It's all about balance and it's obvious the original art team left Blizzard when looking at the wrong balance in all screenshot's I've seen so far.

Anyway, try again instead of dismissing my points with nonsense.

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You should be more careful about accusing people of straw maning something when you're just gonna go and misunderstand the point...

My fault for not trying to dig up a D2 alpha screen, cause obviously using one from another of their games made it too complicated for you...

Wow, an early alpha lacking details, how utterly unexpected...


The reason why i didn't bother with the details is that this conversation is old, even before D3 was announced even (not that it stopped anyone from being retarded).

As to the complaint made earlier that Blizzard doesn't cater to hardcore gamers- I don't think they should. I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

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Hardcore on consoles = Halo and Gears... so they don't qualify, as much as they wish it did...

I prefer a tad more bright colors, its annoying to try and see really dark none diffrentiated color tones. As for hardcore gamers moving to console, i'm not sure what qualifies someone as hard core, or a game as hard core, I hardly see any games that qualify console as 'hardcore' or pc gaming as less 'hard-core'.

crono1224 said:

I prefer a tad more bright colors, its annoying to try and see really dark none diffrentiated color tones. As for hardcore gamers moving to console, i'm not sure what qualifies someone as hard core, or a game as hard core, I hardly see any games that qualify console as 'hardcore' or pc gaming as less 'hard-core'.

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http://www.miraigamer.net/cavestory/
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Main_Page

HARDCORE!

For a game to be Hardcore, it has to show a disregard for the learning curve at a fairly early point in the game and the difficulty ether needs to stay at that ball-bustingly hard level or get even harder as the game progresses. The game also needs to feel satisfying to the player once they achieve the level of skill required to get the most out of the game... the game can't simply be difficult, it also needs to derive some of its fun in being able to master its difficulty. Keep in mind that the entirety of the game needs to be hard... certain sections of an easy game that are hard (like say Through the Fire and Flames in Guitar Hero) do not make a game hardcore, they simply make it have hardcore extras.

Multi-player games accomplish this over time by the emergency of scrubs that refuse to go easy on anyone, but some single player titles (like Godhand, Ninja Gaiden, or the Armored Core series) can rarely achieve this status as well.

AshburnerX said:

Multi-player games accomplish this over time by the emergency of scrubs that refuse to go easy on anyone, but some single player titles (like Godhand, Ninja Gaiden, or the Armored Core series) can rarely achieve this status as well.

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Absolutely ADORE the Armored Core series, I own 9 titles from PS1 to PSP. Loved them all, especially the ones that allow you to carry over some rare armor/weapons.

would playing a rpg in a language you don't speak count? I don't get it. Probably because its an arbitrary term with subjective deffinitions.

Shegokigo said:

AshburnerX said:

Multi-player games accomplish this over time by the emergency of scrubs that refuse to go easy on anyone, but some single player titles (like Godhand, Ninja Gaiden, or the Armored Core series) can rarely achieve this status as well.

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Absolutely ADORE the Armored Core series, I own 9 titles from PS1 to PSP. Loved them all, especially the ones that allow you to carry over some rare armor/weapons.

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I only ever got to play a demo of the very first game and then Armored Core 3 and Armored Core: Silent Line. I only managed to beat Silent Line (got tired of playing nice with the boss and walked in with my Missile boat. 7 missiles fired at once FTW) as I kept getting killed trying to kill that fast little mech at the end of the laser cannon hallway in 3.

Actually, now that I think about it, you could carry over at least something from the first game, all the way to Silent Line. At the very least you could carry over the beam sword projectile ability from Another Age into 3 and Silent Line, as well as OP-OVERDRIVE into Silent Line (which was unbalancing as fuck... come on, letting two legged mechs use shoulder weapons without kneeling?!?)

crono1224 said:

would playing a rpg in a language you don't speak count? I don't get it. Probably because its an arbitrary term with subjective deffinitions.

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If you can actually understand what is going on, then yes. If your just blindly working through the game or using a FAQ/Walkthrough though... then no.