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Your caffeine addiction

Dec 3, 2012#1

MindDetective

I used to never drink caffeinated beverages. Now I'm hooked. I detox once in a while to stave off the inevitable habituation (yay, headaches!) But my main problem is that I don't like coffee or, in most cases, tea. So that mainly leaves soda, which has all kinds of problems with it, let alone making me feel pretty yucky. So my vector of choice has been Cran-energy (we have to order it from Amazon in bulk) and Swiss Miss Pick Me Up cocoa (now discontinued). So I'm facing the possibility of buying my drugs in a raw form and mixing it into whatever beverage I like. This feels like a big leap to me. There is something about buying a drug in its rawest form and using it, even if that drug is relatively benign (in moderation). Has anyone ventured into powdered or tablet caffeine? Or do you have other sources of caffeine you might suggest?

Dec 3, 2012#2

Chad Sexington

It's madly bitter. I had a huge bag of powdered caffeine and mixing just a small amount into a sugary drink like orange juice or even can of pop made the taste significantly different. Just... be aware. Luckily I love coffee so I didn't really stick with the powdered caffeine (it had been purchased for me as a joke because it is my drug of choice).

Dec 3, 2012#3

Shakey

There's some mixes that you can get in fruit flavors if you prefer that. Crystal light has some. Also Mio. They also make a caffeinated water, which you could try to make hot chocolate with.

Dec 3, 2012#4

drawn_inward

MD, I'd say to avoid mixing in raw/pure caffeine yourself. As you may well know, over-caffeination can lead to heart issues. Though, I have been tempted to do so as well. If you do, get a scale and don't go too far over 200 mgs/beverage.

As an undergrad, I tried NoDoz and another brand of caffeine pills. They work, but they gave me the jitters. I currently drink ~ 3/4 of a pot of coffee a day.

Do you exercise regularly? I've found that if I keep a decent exercise routine, I need less caffeine to keep me alert.

Regardless:
Academia - caffeine = :Leyla:

Dec 3, 2012#5

Bowielee

I'm a straight up black coffee guy, so I'm afraid I can't help.

Dec 3, 2012#6

WasabiPoptart

Coffee person here, too. I have a bad habit.
NoDoz never did anything for me when I was working midnights unless I drank a Coke with it. So I just started drinking Coke and gave up on the pills. Then I discovered the miracle of sugary, cappuccino-type drinks from WaWa.

Dec 3, 2012#7

MindDetective

drawn_inward said:
MD, I'd say to avoid mixing in raw/pure caffeine yourself. As you may well know, over-caffeination can lead to heart issues. Though, I have been tempted to do so as well. If you do, get a scale and don't go too far over 200 mgs/beverage.

As an undergrad, I tried NoDoz and another brand of caffeine pills. They work, but they gave me the jitters. I currently drink ~ 3/4 of a pot of coffee a day.

Do you exercise regularly? I've found that if I keep a decent exercise routine, I need less caffeine to keep me alert.

Regardless:
Academia - caffeine =

200mg sounds like an insane amount to me. I might get up to that much in a single day after I've habituated for a while but my relationship with caffeine is very love/hate.

Dec 3, 2012#8

WasabiPoptart

You do realize one serving of Cran-energy has about 105 mg of caffeine, right?

Dec 3, 2012#9

MindDetective

WasabiPoptart said:
You do realize one serving of Cran-energy has about 105 mg of caffeine, right?

Yep. I usually have only a single serving spread out over the morning but I get up to 2 servings over a whole day when I've habituated and work is stressful. So far I've had about half a serving today.

Dec 3, 2012#10

phil

At starbucks we have these drinks called Refreshers, which you might be interested in. They're caffeinated and low calorie. They're a little better if you mix it with lemonade or tea. The canned versions are my favorite though because they're carbonated and I like the flavors more.

One of my go to coffee drinks that doesn't really taste like coffee (to me) is a mocha cafe misto (or cafe au lait depending on where you are). It's essentially half coffee and half hot cocoa. I'd go ahead and just ask for a little less coffee and a little more milk, if you're worried about the taste.

This is also called a dunkachino if you go to a dunkin donuts...but I wouldn't recommend it as much, especially if you're not in a heavy DD area. The whole thing is just a powdered mix and I don't know how long that stuff is good for but when I worked there it did not get changed out.

Dec 3, 2012#11

drawn_inward

MindDetective said:
200mg sounds like an insane amount to me. I might get up to that much in a single day after I've habituated for a while but my relationship with caffeine is very love/hate.

It's not an insane amount, but I would be cautious of anything above that in one serving.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/AN01211
Click on the Energy drinks button.

Dec 3, 2012#12

LittleKagsin

Are you hellbent on it being caffeine? Is it a time thing? You just need something that you can run out the door with and have with you throughout the day?

I'm personally a fan of fruits in the morning. And chemically, it should give you that boost in the morning since it's replenishing the fructose your body wants after having burned it off in the night. Citrus fruits and melons are good; Pineapples, Oranges, Grapefruit, Honeydew and Cantaloupe. If you're in a hurry, I would do frozen fruit in a blender to make a smoothie.

I'm sorry I can't help much when it comes to caffeine, I'm of the vein that since it doesn't do anything for me nutritionally so I'd rather have something with some substance.

Also, just throwing this out there, if you have time to stretch for maybe 5 minutes or so in the morning, or just something to get your heart going, that should help wake you up.

I feel all preachy about this, sorry, feel free to ignore me.

Dec 3, 2012#13

Espy

It's also possible you don't like coffee because you are drinking crappy coffee.

Maybe try getting some really high end beans, get a chemex or french press and go to town? You might be surprised.

Dec 3, 2012#14

MindDetective

Espy said:
It's also possible you don't like coffee because you are drinking crappy coffee.

Maybe try getting some really high end beans, get a chemex or french press and go to town? You might be surprised.

No, I am probably a supertaster (though I've never been formally tested). This basically amounts to having more bitter receptors so that bitter things taste even more bitter to me.

Dec 3, 2012#15

Gared

Espy said:
It's also possible you don't like coffee because you are drinking crappy coffee.

Maybe try getting some really high end beans, get a chemex or french press and go to town? You might be surprised.

This, or skip right over normal coffee and go for mochas and lattes from Starbucks or other vendors. If you add enough flavored syrups, you really don't taste the coffee. Though I actually tend to go for lattes instead of mochas, because I do enjoy the taste of coffee.

And yeah, my addiction is pretty strong, though I tend not to drink coffee on the weekends, just to cut down some; and at least I'm not drinking red bull every day anymore.

Dec 3, 2012#16

MindDetective

LittleKagsin said:
Are you hellbent on it being caffeine? Is it a time thing? You just need something that you can run out the door with and have with you throughout the day?

I'm personally a fan of fruits in the morning. And chemically, it should give you that boost in the morning since it's replenishing the fructose your body wants after having burned it off in the night. Citrus fruits and melons are good; Pineapples, Oranges, Grapefruit, Honeydew and Cantaloupe. If you're in a hurry, I would do frozen fruit in a blender to make a smoothie.

I'm sorry I can't help much when it comes to caffeine, I'm of the vein that since it doesn't do anything for me nutritionally so I'd rather have something with some substance.

Also, just throwing this out there, if you have time to stretch for maybe 5 minutes or so in the morning, or just something to get your heart going, that should help wake you up.

I feel all preachy about this, sorry, feel free to ignore me.

My job is pretty demanding on many fronts, so caffeine does a good job of helping me stay on task and energetic. It also doesn't help that I have a 14 month old that demands a share of that energy. That said, my wife and I are becoming more active and are working towards getting involved in martial arts. That will probably help my energy level but caffeine is likely to always be in the equation. I'm not a junkie when I consider what my dosages are per diem but it noticeably aids in my ability to make it through a demanding day.

Dec 3, 2012#17

MindDetective

Gared said:
go for mochas and lattes from Starbucks or other vendors

These taste very bitter to me. I've tried, though. Aside from that, I don't want to supplement my caffeine intake with a zillion extra calories every day.

Dec 3, 2012#18

Gared

MindDetective said:
These taste very bitter to me. I've tried, though. Aside from that, I don't want to supplement my caffeine intake with a zillion extra calories every day.

Yeah, there is that to worry about, which has probably contributed to my much expanded waistline compared to what it used to be before I started drinking them.

Dec 3, 2012#19

drifter

MindDetective said:
No, I am probably a supertaster (though I've never been formally tested). This basically amounts to having more bitter receptors so that bitter things taste even more bitter to me.

You could try an Aeropress. It supposedly results in a much less bitter brew, due to the lower brewing temperature. Haven't tried it myself, though.

Dec 3, 2012#20

strawman

Why not take it as an explicit drug, and buy some extended release pills, or a trans-dermal patch? Take them as needed, they release caffeine throughout the day, and you can drink and eat whatever you'd normally drink and eat, rather than having to stay on a specific diet just to maintain a particular caffeine level.

You're already considering buying it raw because you'd like the flexibility - it seems like the next step is to treat it like you do any other drug.

Aside from releasing it slowly throughout the time period, are there any particular advantages to taking it mixed with food, and having food in your mouth all day? You're probably dealing with food colorings, preservatives, artificial sweeteners, artificial flavors and training your mouth that it will always have liquid, thus lowering saliva production and making it so you have to drink all day whether you need caffeine or not. Even without sugar your teeth, gums, and tongue aren't meant to soak in non-saliva solutions for 12 hours a day.

Dec 3, 2012#21

Shakey

MindDetective said:
No, I am probably a supertaster (though I've never been formally tested). This basically amounts to having more bitter receptors so that bitter things taste even more bitter to me.

I'm not trying to convince you to drink coffee, but I will say this. Coffee brewed right shouldn't be very bitter. The bitterness comes from over brewing the beans, because people don't use enough of them. If you don't like the strong taste of coffee brewed with more beans, adding water in after will make a better cup of coffee than trying to brew coffee with not enough beans.

Dec 3, 2012#22

MindDetective

Shakey said:
I'm not trying to convince you to drink coffee, but I will say this. Coffee brewed right shouldn't be very bitter. The bitterness comes from over brewing the beans, because people don't use enough of them. If you don't like the strong taste of coffee brewed with more beans, adding water in after will make a better cup of coffee than trying to brew coffee with not enough beans.

That's the part that changes based upon number of bitter receptors a person has. About 25% of the population has extra bitter receptors, meaning extra bitter receptivity. About 25% of the population are nontasters, meaning they are actually deficient in bitter receptors and thus will not find coffee (or other bitter things) very bitter at all. I think statements like yours largely ignore these differences that people have. Bitterness to me is likely to be quite different than bitterness to you, especially if you happen to be a nontaster.[DOUBLEPOST=1354564121][/DOUBLEPOST]A nice little graphic to demonstrate how dramatic the differences can be:

Dec 3, 2012#23

Shakey

I know. If you're sensitive to bitter tastes, coffee will always be bitter. I was just kinda going off on something that annoys me. People who complain about not liking bitter coffee, so they just use one small tablespoon of folgers to brew 10 cups of coffee.

Dec 3, 2012#24

Cajungal

phil said:
At starbucks we have these drinks called Refreshers, which you might be interested in. They're caffeinated and low calorie. They're a little better if you mix it with lemonade or tea. The canned versions are my favorite though because they're carbonated and I like the flavors more

These are good. I get one from time to time.

Dec 3, 2012#25

Frank

MindDetective said:
That's the part that changes based upon number of bitter receptors a person has. About 25% of the population has extra bitter receptors, meaning extra bitter receptivity. About 25% of the population are nontasters, meaning they are actually deficient in bitter receptors and thus will not find coffee (or other bitter things) very bitter at all. I think statements like yours largely ignore these differences that people have. Bitterness to me is likely to be quite different than bitterness to you, especially if you happen to be a nontaster.[DOUBLEPOST=1354564121][/DOUBLEPOST]A nice little graphic to demonstrate how dramatic the differences can be:

Yeah, I drink boatloads of coffee (messed up shifts) but I honestly loathe the taste. Every time is an angry trip to bitter town, so I totally understand where you're coming from there.

Dec 3, 2012#26

T

The_Khan

try Jamaican blue mountain coffee.

Dec 3, 2012#27

Silent Bob

Chock full o' Nuts is my bread and butter

Dec 3, 2012#28

Ravenpoe

I drink Monster Loco Mocha coffee flavored energy drinks.

DON'T JUDGE ME!

Dec 4, 2012#29

PatrThom

Unfortunately, due to the actions of far too many of The Few*, there is little to no choice when it comes to legal stimulants. Caffeine is not on the "controlled" list because a) it is somewhat self-limiting (as a diuretic) and b) because no legislator wants to be known as the idiot who introduced legislation to outlaw coffee. Sudafed is still available without a prescription but tightly controlled due to its habit of being collected by folks and redeemed for meth.

Personally, I am just coming off a week without caffeine, and I look forward to tomorrow morning's cup of tea with undisguised anticipation. As someone who used to use caffeine tablets as a study aid, I can give this advice: It's probably better to gauge how long you need the caffeine to work, and then dose accordingly. It takes about 15min before orally ingested caffeine shows up in your bloodstream for work, with peak availability coming 45min to an hour afterwards. It will then stay active in your body for about another 3hrs, at which point excretion will have reduced the amount in your system to about half. So that means that about every 2-1/2hrs, you will have to decide whether to dose again or whether it is time to let it subside. If you let it subside, your system will finally be caffeine-free about 12hrs from the time you took your last dose regardless of whether you still feel the high or not (it will still be affecting your heart, nervous system, etc).

However, the amount with which you need to dose yourself will vary based on your physiology, your current tolerance level, etc. and will need to be determined by experimentation. The Internet says a 12oz bottle of Cran-Energy contains about 100mg caffeine. That's half a standard caffeine tablet** and if you're sick of importing your own supply, you can always chop a tablet in half and down it with a 12oz serving of ordinary Cran-whatever. Just toss it back with your first gulp and use the remaining 11oz to get any remaining bitter taste out of your mouth. I recommend using tablets to "find your sweet spot" because it is easier to keep track of the quantity of caffeine in your system by the number of (fragments of) pills you have consumed. Tablets may not be cheap, but at least when you are using it in its more or less pure form, you don't have to concern yourself with how much sugar/corn syrup, phosphoric acid, Cyanocobalamin (B12), Niacin, salt, or other ancillary chemicals you are ingesting which may come with their own side-effects. Trust me...caffeine might be bitter (and oh is it ever), but the annoyance of the bitter taste is nothing, nothing compared to an unexpected (and unplanned) niacin flush. Or excess sodium. Or diabetes. Or osteoporosis. If you decide to go the powdered/tablet route, and the bitterness is too much for you to stand, you might try taking it with ice cream. The sweetness and dairy will help cover the bitter taste, and the cold will help further deaden your tongue's sensitivity. Cold milk might be a close second (with less sugar, too!). Over time, you will become accustomed to the taste of caffeine, and while it will always taste bitter, you will not mind it as much.

And then yes, you will need to detox periodically to be able to use it again.

The above is provided with no warranty, expressed nor implied, nor should it be construed as medical advice. Use caffeine in the form of your choice at your own risk. Respect any and all local laws/ordinances/directives. Please remember to use caffeine responsibly.

--Patrick
*You know, the ones who ruined it for the rest of us.
**Vivarin says their product contains 200mg/tablet.

This post partially dedicated to Yoshimickster .

Dec 4, 2012#30

MindDetective

Thanks, PatrThom. I do dose in a manner much like you describe. 100mg is a little on the high end for a given dose for me, which is why I was considering the powder (though then I might need a scale). I think I've largely rejected the idea for now, since it will probably be too bitter for me. I might try tea again, which I can usually handle with enough sweetener and mixed with some juice.

Dec 4, 2012#31

Espy

MindDetective said:
No, I am probably a supertaster (though I've never been formally tested). This basically amounts to having more bitter receptors so that bitter things taste even more bitter to me.

This makes me sad. I want you to enjoy delicious coffee.

Dec 4, 2012#32

MindDetective

Bitter, bitter coffee...

Dec 4, 2012#33

Covar

Shakey said:
I'm not trying to convince you to drink coffee, but I will say this. Coffee brewed right shouldn't be very bitter. The bitterness comes from over brewing the beans, because people don't use enough of them. If you don't like the strong taste of coffee brewed with more beans, adding water in after will make a better cup of coffee than trying to brew coffee with not enough beans.

Even better than watering it down, a small pinch of salt added to the grinds will help cut down on the bitterness. Or added after brewing. I'll do that sometimes if I find myself with old coffee that needs to be reheated.

Dec 4, 2012#34

PatrThom

Yes. Salt is the traditional bitter fighter (which is one of the reasons processed foods have extra), but be careful. Too much salt causes other problems.

MindDetective said:
100mg is a little on the high end for a given dose for me

But...100mg is exactly the amount in one bottle of Cran-Energy. Are you saying you were trying to cut back?

--Patrick

Dec 4, 2012#35

MindDetective

PatrThom said:
Yes. Salt is the traditional bitter fighter (which is one of the reasons processed foods have extra), but be careful. Too much salt causes other problems.

But...100mg is exactly the amount in one bottle of Cran-Energy. Are you saying you were trying to cut back?

--Patrick

I don't drink it all at once. I usually split it in two or sometimes nurse it.

Dec 4, 2012#36

PatrThom

Just finished my second cup of spiced chai for the first time in a week. 22oz water, 2xbag steeped for 1min, 1/2Tbsp sugar, 1/3c half-n-half. It tastes delicious. Just as delicious as the one before. Mmm...

(all measurements approximate)

--Patrick

Dec 4, 2012#37

Yoshimickster

I love the taste of coffee, so bitter and true. The problem is with me as PatrThom said in another topic is I have an extreme tolerance to cafeine. What sucks is well...I went a month without coffee in October and the lax effects of regular coffee still stayed. I had a few candy bars hear and there though, could that be a reason why?

Dec 4, 2012#38

fade

A soldering iron to the the tongue would help reduce your sensitivity to bitterness. Just throwing that out there.

Dec 4, 2012#39

PatrThom

I had hot cocoa while I was waiting out my week (about 2-3c/day). Yes, cocoa mix does contain caffeine (about 8mg/8oz cup), though it is significantly lower than the content of coffee/tea/drinks. Chocolate bars look like they contain about 10mg/1.6oz bar, so while it's not cold turkey, it is definitely a big step down. Should help keep the withdrawal headaches in check, at least.

--Patrick

Dec 4, 2012#40

strawman

fade said:
A soldering iron to the the tongue would help reduce your sensitivity to bitterness. Just throwing that out there.

I met someone who used to have a habit of licking the end of their pencil occasionally, and sometime later in life started playing with electronics.

They no longer lick the end of their pencil.

Dec 4, 2012#41

PatrThom

Thank goodness they never went into phlebotomy!

--Patrick

Dec 4, 2012#42

WasabiPoptart

fade said:
A soldering iron to the the tongue would help reduce your sensitivity to bitterness. Just throwing that out there.

I was thinking of suggesting something along those lines, but using pizza or a hot drink. Then it's unpleasant, but not so terrible.

Dec 4, 2012#43

strawman

PatrThom said:
Thank goodness they never went into phlebotomy!

--Patrick

Ah man, I love a good phlebotomist. The last two times I had to visit one it was quick and very nearly painless.

This last time she was cute and conversational too. Sometimes you get those that just want to shove it in and get out as fast as they can. They don't even look at you, nevermind talk to you.

Dec 4, 2012#44

WasabiPoptart

stienman said:
Sometimes you get those that just want to shove it in and get out as fast as they can. They don't even look at you, nevermind talk to you.

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