Xbox one

[strawman]

Well of course it should be optional. Not everyone needs or wants internet service.

But, like books, I should be able to buy a digital or hardcopy version depending on my preferences and circumstances, and not have to worry about losing my games just because the disc is scratched or lost.

And for each person that lost access to their account, there are thousands that have never had any sort of access or blocking issue, so it's simply not something I'm worried about.

 

[Frank]

Are they dropping the day in date digital store too?

If so, then they are going the fuckery route.

 

[Ravenpoe]

Are they dropping the day in date digital store too?

If so, then they are going the fuckery route.

Microsoft is the bitter ex girlfriend that burns all your stuff.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Well of course it should be optional. Not everyone needs or wants internet service.

But, like books, I should be able to buy a digital or hardcopy version depending on my preferences and circumstances, and not have to worry about losing my games just because the disc is scratched or lost.

And for each person that lost access to their account, there are thousands that have never had any sort of access or blocking issue, so it's simply not something I'm worried about.

Noone is stopping the digital service btw.

 

[PatrThom]

There's still a lot of America that doesn't have access to broadband internet access. I know that sounds weird, but for those of us in these unlucky areas, it's a big deal.

Let's not forget the spectre of download data caps as well.

--Patrick

 

[AshburnerX]

Let's not forget the spectre of download data caps as well.

--Patrick

That's going to go away real fast. Google Fiber is moving east and Google has all the money it needs to lay line if it has to. The telcoms are the ones facing the specter of death, not unlimited data. They'll ether need to upgrade lines or lower prices significantly.

I'm actually more worried about what this will do to cable prices. Cable stations aren't going to be able to charge carriers quite so much anymore and I think it's going to make the whole "run Cops 20 hours a day" thing even more prevalent.

 

[Ravenpoe]

That's going to go away real fast. Google Fiber is moving east and Google has all the money it needs to lay line if it has to. The telcoms are the ones facing the specter of death, not unlimited data. They'll ether need to upgrade lines or lower prices significantly.

I'm actually more worried about what this will do to cable prices. Cable stations aren't going to be able to charge carriers quite so much anymore and I think it's going to make the whole "run Cops 20 hours a day" thing even more prevalent.

I'll believe google fiber will exist in rural north Florida when I see it.

 

[redthirtyone]

Actually, it was the drubbing that Microsoft was seeing in preorders that likely caused the backpedaling. Gamers (for the first time ever it seems) actually voted with their wallets.

But they didn't really. One of the things MS kept hammering away at was the fact that pre-orders were selling out @ Amazon. Problem is, Amazon isn't taking a deposit or anything to guarantee the sale, just an order. I myself have a pre-order for one. I figured if all hell broke loose & things stayed sketchy I had 5 months to bail. How many people in the pre-order pool are like me, hedging our bets just in case?

 

[Hailey Knight]

But they didn't really. One of the things MS kept hammering away at was the fact that pre-orders were selling out @ Amazon. Problem is, Amazon isn't taking a deposit or anything to guarantee the sale, just an order. I myself have a pre-order for one. I figured if all hell broke loose & things stayed sketchy I had 5 months to bail. How many people in the pre-order pool are like me, hedging our bets just in case?

They were selling out because of how much they limited the supply. Sony did the same thing when the PS3 came out so they could say it sold out. I think VGCats did a strip on it.

 

[Frank]

Yeah, there were some credible insider rumours (a guy who posts on NeoGAF who uses confusing netspeak to hide his identity and is always proven right) about Microsoft having yield issues with their esRAM. That their console design was rushed to match Sony.

 

[Frank]

I'm kind of bummed Microsoft 180'd on it's policies. Seriously. It would have been fun to see how the whole thing would have played out once both consoles were released. Now, we'll never know.

 

[bhamv3]

I'm kind of bummed Microsoft 180'd on it's policies. Seriously. It would have been fun to see how the whole thing would have played out once both consoles were released. Now, we'll never know.

With the same kind of morbid fascination that comes from watching a train wreck?

 

[Terrik]

I'm not entirely convinced that the damage hasn't already been done.

 

[fade]

There's one thing I was never clear on: were the games (before the flip flop) going to be the same price as disc? That would be a serious deterrent to gamers like me. I have a pattern. I usually wait about a year before buying a game, at which time it's usually far less than half of its launch price used. I sell my old games to get it. They're not worth much, but usually enough to significantly offset the $10-$15 I pay for the game. If this newer business model changed that significantly, I wouldn't be happy.

 

[Espy]

I believe it's been stated all around that games were going to stay @60 bucks a pop for the next generation regardless of what medium they were delivered on.

 

[Frank]

There's one thing I was never clear on: were the games (before the flip flop) going to be the same price as disc? That would be a serious deterrent to gamers like me. I have a pattern. I usually wait about a year before buying a game, at which time it's usually far less than half of its launch price used. I sell my old games to get it. They're not worth much, but usually enough to significantly offset the $10-$15 I pay for the game. If this newer business model changed that significantly, I wouldn't be happy.

Jesus will return and the world will end before Ubisoft, EA or Activision agree to sell a new "big" game for less than 60 bucks. Captain Activision has even stated he wants games to cost more.

 

[Frank]

According to the Microsoft insider that's put out info such as Microsoft's low yield issues with One's eSRAM (which has all but been proven true at this point), apparently the 10 person family sharing plan was limited to 60 minutes. A top Microsoft guy claims this isn't true, but does he have any reason to be honest about it now that the feature is gone?

 

[Gilgamesh]

For all of you talking about covering your Kinect to avoid all the problems, I present to you this little glimpse into your future:

 

[strawman]

If you are trying to use the console, then you flip it up and there's no "error".

When you aren't using the console you flip it down, and ignore it.

I suppose the problem is that you don't want the console to know you're using it when you're using it?

 

[Gilgamesh]

If you are trying to use the console, then you flip it up and there's no "error".

When you aren't using the console you flip it down, and ignore it.

I suppose the problem is that you don't want the console to know you're using it when you're using it?

You're hysterical

 

[strawman]

You're hysterical

I can't be, I have no uterus to cause hysteria.

 

[MindDetective]

I can't be, I have no uterus to cause hysteria.

What is this, the 18th century? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1036207/

 

[strawman]

What is this, the 18th century? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1036207/

Wait, words evolve?

 

[strawman]

You're hysterical

My work here is done.

 

[figmentPez]

I'm still reading through the last couple weeks of news in my RSS reader, but I found it interesting that MS is adding a new twist on achievements for the Xbone. They're calling them challenges, and they'll be limited availability in time (i.e. only during a specific weekend), and they'll also be able to span multiple games. To me this seems like a pretty smart way to get people to purchase games early, and then not resell them later. (As long as the challenges don't cost anything to participate, beyond an Xbox Live Gold account, it seems a pretty fair way to reward players for being early adopters and long-term players. Give them recognition for it that isn't really anything more than bragging rights.)

 

[Shakey]

Also a few things to note.

Microsoft no longer charging thousands for Xbox 360 game updates

Time Warner Cable to bring 300 channels to Xbox 360 - Could be a way around no cable card for the xbox one.

 

[Bowielee]

Jesus will return and the world will end before Ubisoft, EA or Activision agree to sell a new "big" game for less than 60 bucks. Captain Activision has even stated he wants games to cost more.

I honestly can't see how AAA studios could possibly charge less for games. Just a little reminder that the price of games hasn't really increased over the years and have never been adjusted for inflation. I remember paying 59.99 for NES cartridges.

Name one industry where you're still paying the same price for something that you were paying in 1985.

Also, keep in mind that the cost to produce games has increased exponentially, particularly for AAA titles that have budgets approaching small film budgets.

 

[AshburnerX]

I honestly can't see how AAA studios could possibly charge less for games. Just a little reminder that the price of games hasn't really decreased over the years and have never been adjusted for inflation. I remember paying 59.99 for NES cartridges.

Name one industry where you're still paying the same price for something that you were paying in 1985.

At the same time, games are much more expensive than these other forms of entertainment and may soon have none of the ownership privileges of them. Who wants to pay $60 for a game they can't sell, especially when selling bad/old games is one of the primary ways many people finance their hobby? Worse, who wants to pay $60 for a digital game that you're not guaranteed access too? Steam's withstood the test of time and caters to the PC market, its not going anywhere... but games you've bought for your PS3 and 360? You're not going to be able to re-download those games if your 360/PS3 craps out in 5-10 years. Their networks will be GONE, taken down as a cost cutting measure, replaced by one for the current gen. No patches, no DLC, no downloads of games you've bought... no nothing unless you modify your system.

Unless the publishers, developers, and manufacturers can satisfactorily address these problems then you're not going to see a digital market really take off on consoles.

More to the point, if you adjusted the price of games with inflation, they'd cost more than $100. Who in their right mind would pay $100 for something unproven? Who would pay $100 for a digital game? You'd just be narrowing the market even more... the only games that would succeed would be the ones with the largest budgets or the most trusted names.

The problem is that everyone wants to make a AAA game because AAA games let them pretend to be Hollywood. Why not take that cash and instead fund 2-3 mid-size games? A mid-size game that does well more than makes up it's cost. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were made on basically shoestring budgets (comparatively) and made a fortune. Better, if your mid-size game fails it usually doesn't fail that hard... you'll usually make back most of your money at the very least. It's a less risky investment and gives you better odds of success.

 

[figmentPez]

I honestly can't see how AAA studios could possibly charge less for games. Just a little reminder that the price of games hasn't really increased over the years and have never been adjusted for inflation. I remember paying 59.99 for NES cartridges.

Discs are far cheaper to produce than cartridges and the market is far far larger. NES games were typically $50, the price didn't jump up to $60 (here in the US at least) until the PS2 era, I think. With the exception of some games with very large ROM sizes like RPGs, I think Final Fantasy 3 (aka FF6 in Japan) and Chrono Trigger were $80. I haven't been able to Google up any prices, but I remember reading articles as a kid that put the price of large ROM chips at over $10, which is a huge percentage of even an $80 game. (Comparatively, CDs started at about $1.50 to produce, which in small part justified their $20+ price point when they debuted, but price fixing kept the price of music from coming down, even after CDs cost less than $0.25 to make.)

It should also be noted that in the NES era Nintendo was guilty of price fixing, and wouldn't allow companies to make budget titles. Games had to cost $50 or more in order to be official releases.

Name one industry where you're still paying the same price for something that you were paying in 1985.

Music. The suggested retail price for a music CD was over $17 in 1985. It's rare to see an album sell for over $15 now, and most are closer to $10, and that's physical copies.

Computers have gone down drastically in price. Even a cheap desktop computer in 1985 was easily $2,000 or more. Now you can get a lightweight and powerful laptop for that much.

Also, keep in mind that the cost to produce games has increased exponentially, particularly for AAA titles that have budgets approaching small film budgets.

This is a fair point. Budgets have gotten huge, and unlike film there aren't as many secondary markets. Video games don't have the equivalent of a theatrical release, though the sales of merchandise, soundtracks and the like are growing.

 

[Hailey Knight]

However, more people are playing video games now than 30 years ago.

 

[Shawn]

For all of you talking about covering your Kinect to avoid all the problems, I present to you this little glimpse into your future:

Love the 1984 reference.

 

[strawman]

Name one industry where you're still paying the same price for something that you were paying in 1985.

Movie tickets, live theater, concerts, sporting events, cable subscriptions. Adjusted for inflation.

Of course, this is the same industry as video games, just more broadly characterized as "entertainment."

 

[Bowielee]

Movie tickets, live theater, concerts, sporting events, cable subscriptions. Adjusted for inflation.

Of course, this is the same industry as video games, just more broadly characterized as "entertainment."

The cost of everything you mentioned has increased over the years. You're still paying the same amount for a AAA title video game that you would have on the NES.

My whole point is that the cost to produce games has increased, and the value of the dollar has decreased, but the acutal customer cost has remained static.

 

[Frank]

The cost of everything you mentioned has increased over the years. You're still paying the same amount for a AAA title video game that you would have on the NES.

My whole point is that the cost to produce games has increased, and the value of the dollar has decreased, but the acutal customer cost has remained static.

The amount of consumers has increased though too.

 

[AshburnerX]

\
My whole point is that the cost to produce games has increased, and the value of the dollar has decreased, but the acutal customer cost has remained static.

Average income has barely increase along that same time, even as the value of the dollar has halved. It certainly hasn't matched inflation.