New Math & NCLB in the US
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
What the unholy hell? You mean they're not teaching subtraction by digits any more?
This..this isn't funny at all.
There is no new thing under the sun
Maybe I'll have my kid in China, stay a few years and THEN come back.
My mother is a teacher. Just about everything from common core is fundamentally flawed... but it's quantifiable and that's all that matters to the Department of Education. Blame No Child Left Behind and it's funding based on success.
figmentPez
Staff member
I'm looking at the image of some common core worksheets... and it's just a jumble of concepts. It's like someone took all the various ways that a teacher might use to explain math to a kid who just isn't getting it, and decided to show all those ways to every single kid. I can't imagine how confusing that is. Most college students I know get confused if you show them more than one way to work a math problem. These should be examples in the teacher's arsenal to help them get through to a kid who can't understand the work any other way, not just a shotgun of tactics thrown at kids to decide how they understand best.
I don't see the issue. It doesn't seem like the most intuitive way to do it, but I kinda understand what they're going for. You take away 3 100s, 1 ten, and 6 ones. The issue being that the kid took away 6 10s and no 1s. Maybe not the best way to do it, but it doesn't seem like a reason to call for the decline of all things holy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/28/viral-common-core-homework_n_5049829.html?ir=Parents
Explanation of that image.
Explanation of that image.
figmentPez
Staff member
Problem isn't one specific method (though some methods really *are* less interesting because they cant scale up or don't "explain" how you get there), but that children are supposed to "intuitively" understand 10 different ways of solving the same puzzle. Instead of being told "here's one way to do it, see if you like it, if not, there are others we can try", they're being asked to learn all 10 ways and use specific ways of solving for specific questions - even if they're not the best, fastest, easiest or whatever.
The problem that I see there is that the "new" way REQUIRES understanding the "old" way to work at all. Thus just USE the old way. Let's go from the original example at one specific point: 107 - 10 (this is after the error). How do you do that by just taking off the 10s digit? Well you have to know that you can take from the higher-order digit. Which is the core of the old way anyways!!! In this case, not so bad, as it's right there, but what about this: 10007 - 10. This makes no sense in the "new" system you are demonstrating there. You still need to "x-out" and put "9"s in the middle of your work. Which is how you'd do it in the old system. Either way, if you need the tried-and-true system to USE the new system, then your new system is fundamentally flawed.
Not that the "new" math" that Leher talked about is all that much better than the common core crap. Most of us in this forum grew up on it, but it still sucks compared to the "old math" way. Luckily I was taught that as well, and "just used it" most of the time except when explicitly told to use "expanded form" of numbers and problems. Again, you need the "old/actual" math to use it, hence why it's also worse.
Not that the "new" math" that Leher talked about is all that much better than the common core crap. Most of us in this forum grew up on it, but it still sucks compared to the "old math" way. Luckily I was taught that as well, and "just used it" most of the time except when explicitly told to use "expanded form" of numbers and problems. Again, you need the "old/actual" math to use it, hence why it's also worse.
"Show your work" constantly lowered the marks of both my brother and me in our math classes. We knew how to do it. Why are we being penalised for not taking five minutes to cross out the two, move the 1 to make a 12... Good lord. "I'm sorry, but your child is good at mental math, which is something we must stunt."
It was an anti-cheating thing. They wanted to make sure you knew how to get the answers, not just what the answers were.
That varied wildly in my teachers. One of them (whom I liked) told me outright: "If you get the right answer, you get full marks. If you get the wrong answer and don't show your work, you get zero. If you show your work but get the wrong answer, you will probably get partial marks." This IMO is the "right" policy to have in math & science class when the answer is deterministic.
Dave
Staff member
Spinning this off to a new thread.[DOUBLEPOST=1396370677,1396370292][/DOUBLEPOST]No Child Left Behind (NCLB) is fucking stupid.
Designing a curriculum for everyone is impossible. Doing so retards the growth of those students who would normally shoot ahead, marginalizes those students who typically have trouble, and bores those students who are in the middle. If you are going to make kids run a race, some are going to be naturally better and some will suck. We'd be better off instead of saying no child left behind, would be to say Every Child Has Opportunity (ECHO). You have the same resources everyone else has, regardless of economic demographic. If you fail anyway, sorry.
Designing a curriculum for everyone is impossible. Doing so retards the growth of those students who would normally shoot ahead, marginalizes those students who typically have trouble, and bores those students who are in the middle. If you are going to make kids run a race, some are going to be naturally better and some will suck. We'd be better off instead of saying no child left behind, would be to say Every Child Has Opportunity (ECHO). You have the same resources everyone else has, regardless of economic demographic. If you fail anyway, sorry.
GasBandit
Staff member
I thank my lucky stars that my elementary school had a gifted and talented program. By the time I was in the 5th grade, they we doing my math lessons out of a 8th grade textbook.
And then the army moved my family from Maryland (which if you remember the latest states map I posted in the pictures thread, has the best public schools) to El Paso, they didn't have any program nor want to make accomodations.. and stuck me back in my own grade in math. I proceeded to coast on prior knowledge without doing a single page of homework all the way until I hit calculus like a brick wall and by that time I'd forgotten how to study math. It was a struggle like no other after that.
And then the army moved my family from Maryland (which if you remember the latest states map I posted in the pictures thread, has the best public schools) to El Paso, they didn't have any program nor want to make accomodations.. and stuck me back in my own grade in math. I proceeded to coast on prior knowledge without doing a single page of homework all the way until I hit calculus like a brick wall and by that time I'd forgotten how to study math. It was a struggle like no other after that.
Which I feel like would show on the test. I mean, yes, I suppose I could have been some kind of mastermind, cheating every assignment and test, but at that point, I'm obviously canny enough to succeed in life...
Related story. There was a kid in my grade who just "intuited the answers" to math questions, because according to his mother, he was "gifted", and thus didn't need to show his work. The problem was that he generally "intuited" the wrong answers, so if he'd shown his work (like he was supposed to) he might have passed. Meh.
Dave
Staff member
I love telling this story.
When I was in first grade we had a series of workbooks that we needed to go over. There were 21 of them and when you completed them you took this test using a "magic ink" pen that made the things you wrote on appear. So if you took the test and used the pen on the "B" box, it would tell you if you were correct. If wrong, you could choose another answer until you got the right one. So you could conceivably unearth all three incorrect answers before getting the right one. But you can only have so many wrong before you failed.
I loved these books and went through most of them very quickly, including taking the tests. When the teachers found out how fast I was going through them, they told me I had to stop because I would finish before everyone else. Basically, these books were supposed to last the entire year, not a couple weeks. So during the time when we were supposed to be working on them, I had to sit at my desk quietly. Could I read? Nope. Could I doodle? Nope. I had to sit there doing nothing for an entire hour. I was being punished because I loved to read and did it faster than everyone else.
I will never forget that lesson.
When I was in first grade we had a series of workbooks that we needed to go over. There were 21 of them and when you completed them you took this test using a "magic ink" pen that made the things you wrote on appear. So if you took the test and used the pen on the "B" box, it would tell you if you were correct. If wrong, you could choose another answer until you got the right one. So you could conceivably unearth all three incorrect answers before getting the right one. But you can only have so many wrong before you failed.
I loved these books and went through most of them very quickly, including taking the tests. When the teachers found out how fast I was going through them, they told me I had to stop because I would finish before everyone else. Basically, these books were supposed to last the entire year, not a couple weeks. So during the time when we were supposed to be working on them, I had to sit at my desk quietly. Could I read? Nope. Could I doodle? Nope. I had to sit there doing nothing for an entire hour. I was being punished because I loved to read and did it faster than everyone else.
I will never forget that lesson.
That is basically how I do it when I teach statistics.
Dave
Staff member
I'm pouring my heart out here and you make jokes? JOKES?!?You mean stone tablets and the "magic ink" chisel, right?
Yeah, that's what I meant.
The problem in that first page isn't that it uses a number line, it's that the question is not about solving the math problem, it's about using the number line.
Unless the class you're taking is specifically, "Alternate ways of teaching math to students, for teachers", this is exactly the wrong way to teach math.
The problem with the page that FigPez posted is that the last question on the page is "How would you solve this problem (that we've already shown you the answer for)?" not "Pick one of these methods (or any other method you prefer) that you are comfortable with and solve this new problem, X-Y = ?"
Math is ultimately about the solution. You show your work because if your solution is wrong, it's much easier to figure out where you went wrong. If multiple methods work to solve a problem, it shouldn't matter what method you're using. Testing the method instead of their ability to solve the problem is a really foolish way for young students to learn math.
[Puts on GB hat] What we're going to end up with are a bunch of public-school kids who won't actually know how to solve problems, just the approved methods of possibly doing so.
Unless the class you're taking is specifically, "Alternate ways of teaching math to students, for teachers", this is exactly the wrong way to teach math.
The problem with the page that FigPez posted is that the last question on the page is "How would you solve this problem (that we've already shown you the answer for)?" not "Pick one of these methods (or any other method you prefer) that you are comfortable with and solve this new problem, X-Y = ?"
Math is ultimately about the solution. You show your work because if your solution is wrong, it's much easier to figure out where you went wrong. If multiple methods work to solve a problem, it shouldn't matter what method you're using. Testing the method instead of their ability to solve the problem is a really foolish way for young students to learn math.
[Puts on GB hat] What we're going to end up with are a bunch of public-school kids who won't actually know how to solve problems, just the approved methods of possibly doing so.
Try understanding complex roots of numbers without them.
Try understanding negative numbers without something akin to that concept.
It's a useful concept. But much like almost anything, it can be OVERused too.
Giving all children the exact same curriculum "let's see if you can manage with the same amount of resources in the same amount of time" isn't very useful either.
I know it takes time, money and effort, but separate curricula for all children - especially after a certain age - are the way to go. This can be taken too far - the school my niece is in has all children working on iPads and choosing their own lessons and exercices, with just some basic "you have to get at least this far in math, this far in English, this far in French, this far in history, to proceed" rules. Some children go way faster in math but barely make the minima in history, others the other way around... It breeds idiots - great knowledge in a small field, but absolutely nothing outside. Eh.
But anyway, teachers need the time and possibility to adjust curricula on the fly, give children extra work, show them new concepts ahead of their class, and all that.
You mean PhDs?
Necronic
Staff member
I get the negative numbers thing, but how does a number line help you understand imaginary numbers?
Real axis and imaginary axis represents the complex space on a 2D plane. And roots of numbers are points on circles on there. Or something. Been a while since I had to do it.
http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.1.shtml
A bit of a graph there that makes some sense, but there's more to it than that. Either way, the visual helps.
That's a very subjective question, "How do you know?" - She doesn't know how he knew. Maybe he did know because he is smart.
GasBandit
Staff member
"The pale girl with no eyes who comes out at night told me."