[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.

Celt Z

Celt Z

Espy said:
Plus she can do it all without pants on or a shirt that covers half of her boobs! So practical!
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Don't dismiss WW just because some artists insist on worrying about how "fappable" she'll be to the LCD crowd. She didn't start out that way. I believe they were going for something patriotic and feminine but still "exotic" since she's an Amazon. We got this:
wwcostume.jpg

A bustier and a skirt isn't great, but it's a start. After that she had shorts. Also, in most of the WW comics/stories I've read, she doesn't use her sexually as a weapon or distraction. A number of artists have also tried to tweak her uniform over the years to try to seem more practical. My favorite is still her golden eagle armor from Kingdom Come.
I agree it's frustrating, but at the same time, she's a character that is far more than her assigned costume.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Celt Z said:
Also, in most of the WW comics/stories I've read, she doesn't use her sexually as a weapon or distraction. A number of artists have also tried to tweak her uniform over the years to try to seem more practical. My favorite is still her golden eagle armor from Kingdom Come.
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Any time she gets actual armor she looks amazing and fucking intimidating. I wish it happened more often.
 
Krisken

Krisken

But I want a movie! Movies get more exposure and advertising. While Arrow might get noticed a little, it's nothing compared to how a movie would have increased public exposure.

Edit: And damn it already, how hard is it to make a Wonder Woman movie?!?
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I am amused by the idea of The Rock playing Captain Marvel (the hero version of him anyway). I can't think of a better actor to play a giant muscle-person who simultaneously acts like a 13 year-old. And I mean that in the best possible way.
 
Covar

Covar

Considering how hard it is to make a Wonder Woman Comic? Pretty difficult I would say. Their first step would be to gather 5 wonder woman fans in a room and get them to agree on the tone of a movie, and what her character should be about.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

Covar said:
Considering how hard it is to make a Wonder Woman Comic? Pretty difficult I would say. Their first step would be to gather 5 wonder woman fans in a room and get them to agree on the tone of a movie, and what her character should be about.
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How is that different from any other superhero?
 
Covar

Covar

A lot of the super-heroes that have had big successful movies have a much more solid core to them than Wonder Woman. Batman from the Caped Crusader to the Dark Knight is still the same core, looked at from a different angle. Wonder Woman not so much. Even today she's two completely different characters depending on what book your reading. She's a mess.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

Covar said:
A lot of the super-heroes that have had big successful movies have a much more solid core to them than Wonder Woman. Batman from the Caped Crusader to the Dark Knight is still the same core, looked at from a different angle. Wonder Woman not so much. Even today she's two completely different characters depending on what book your reading. She's a mess.
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...What? Are we talking about the same character? Has she suddenly changed in the last 31 years I've been reading about her?

Wonder Woman is the median between Superman and Batman. She is less hesitant to use force then Superman for the good of the many, but more likely to use wisdom before action than Batman. She is a diplomat and an representative of the Amazons to bring an Amazon's wisdom into the outside world, along with the gift of the Gods. She's had just as many writing and reboots as Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc., and yet her core has usually remained the same. No one has every complained their stories are too varied to adapt into a singular film, and writers constant write these characters to fit their own point-of-view.

The only argument I ever see is "well, she's a girl, so we have to take into account her feeling, her sexuality, her emotions..." which, NO. No more so than you would have to take into account Clark's attraction to Lois or Batman's loss of his parents. Stop focusing on the "woman" and write about the "wonder". It never stopped Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America or the Avengers from becoming hits. Treat her as you would treat ANY of them: as an icon and a hero.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Covar said:
Considering how hard it is to make a Wonder Woman Comic?
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It's only hard because of the leadership at DC comics. They're a bunch of idiots who have openly stated that they want to make comics for adult men and don't think any other demographic matters. That's why it's hard for them to write Wonder Woman.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

figmentPez said:
It's only hard because of the leadership at DC comics. They're a bunch of idiots who have openly stated that they want to make comics for adult men and don't think any other demographic matters.
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Not to mention the same bunch of jokers who commissioned Young Justice and GLAS solely for the purpose of marketing toys to children and somehow had no idea how to capitalize on both shows being much larger hits with teens and adults, and so canceled them.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Not sure why everyone wants a Wonder Woman movie.

We all know when it comes out it will be about Diana losing her mother, thus forcing herself to leave the Amazons and travel the world in search of closure. Soon she will realize she must be a hero to right the wrongs that have come about in the world, but knowing full well that the general population will never understand her. She then finds herself causing more harm then good as Ares makes himself known and attacks, leveling a city in revenge, and forcing her to kill him to protect her home.

Then all you have to do is put a desaturation filter over the lens and make her do at least fifty angst faces, and you have DCs new cinematic universe.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Celt Z said:
...What? Are we talking about the same character? Has she suddenly changed in the last 31 years I've been reading about her?

Wonder Woman is the median between Superman and Batman. She is less hesitant to use force then Superman for the good of the many, but more likely to use wisdom before action than Batman. She is a diplomat and an representative of the Amazons to bring an Amazon's wisdom into the outside world, along with the gift of the Gods. She's had just as many writing and reboots as Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc., and yet her core has usually remained the same. No one has every complained their stories are too varied to adapt into a singular film, and writers constant write these characters to fit their own point-of-view.

The only argument I ever see is "well, she's a girl, so we have to take into account her feeling, her sexuality, her emotions..." which, NO. No more so than you would have to take into account Clark's attraction to Lois or Batman's loss of his parents. Stop focusing on the "woman" and write about the "wonder". It never stopped Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America or the Avengers from becoming hits. Treat her as you would treat ANY of them: as an icon and a hero.
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This about sums up my reaction. Writers who have difficulty writing female characters are bad writers, period.

There's NOTHING unique about Batman, Superman, Martian Manhunter, etc... that would make them any different if they happened to be female characters. Thinking that they have to be written differently desperately clings to outmoded, sexist ideals of what a woman should be, not what they actually are.

A good case in point is Batwoman. She has an origin that mirrors Batman's, but is actually MORE masculine than his (being brought up by a hard ass military father, who later trains her to be the soldier she needs to be to fight crime).
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Krisken said:
I was mostly responding to the "Not sure why everyone wants a Wonder Woman movie". If you have a suggestion for a better candidate, I'm all ears.
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You have to read the rest of my post before jumping on the first sentence. The first sentence was just a opener into the rest of my jab.

blotsfan said:
I think his reasoning is more along the lines of "its going to suck if its made, so who cares?"
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It's more, "They will just turn her into a female batman anyways. Regardless of all the comics or whatever they do."
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

ScytheRexx said:
You have to read the rest of my post before jumping on the first sentence. The first sentence was just a opener into the rest of my jab.



It's more, "They will just turn her into a female batman anyways. Regardless of all the comics or whatever they do."
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WB seems to want EVERYONE to be Batman nowadays. In a way, I kind of wish the Nolan Batman movies had never happened.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
ScytheRexx said:
Not sure why everyone wants a Wonder Woman movie.

We all know when it comes out it will be about Diana losing her mother, thus forcing herself to leave the Amazons and travel the world in search of closure. Soon she will realize she must be a hero to right the wrongs that have come about in the world, but knowing full well that the general population will never understand her. She then finds herself causing more harm then good as Ares makes himself known and attacks, leveling a city in revenge, and forcing her to kill him to protect her home.

Then all you have to do is put a desaturation filter over the lens and make her do at least fifty angst faces, and you have DCs new cinematic universe.
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Would you have said the same thing to people who wanted a new Superman movie? "Oh, we know what will happen, he'll be turned into a gritty superhero." Yeah, there's always a possibility of a character being mishandled, and it's entirely possible that DC would just make a Wonder Woman movie that's just a re-skinned Man of Steel. Still, it's not wrong to want better, to want what the character could be in the right hands.
 
Krisken

Krisken

ScytheRexx said:
You have to read the rest of my post before jumping on the first sentence. The first sentence was just a opener into the rest of my jab.



It's more, "They will just turn her into a female batman anyways. Regardless of all the comics or whatever they do."
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As in all cases, 'it depends'. Depends on if the studio has learned anything, if they get good writers, if they get a good set of actors, the director, etc. To just say 'it's going to suck, why try for it' is a little silly.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

figmentPez said:
Would you have said the same thing to people who wanted a new Superman movie? "Oh, we know what will happen, he'll be turned into a gritty superhero." Yeah, there's always a possibility of a character being mishandled, and it's entirely possible that DC would just make a Wonder Woman movie that's just a re-skinned Man of Steel. Still, it's not wrong to want better, to want what the character could be in the right hands.
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Trust me I would love a proper Wonder Woman movie. I loved that Wonder Woman animated movie they came out with a few years back that I felt kept a good balance of her Amazon warrior persona and her diplomatic persona. I just don't trust Nolan or Snyder to be the guys to actually respect it after what I have seen from them.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Krisken said:
As in all cases, 'it depends'. Depends on if the studio has learned anything, if they get good writers, if they get a good set of actors, the director, etc. To just say 'it's going to suck, why try for it' is a little silly.
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I am not saying they shouldn't try. Just saying I have little faith based on the experiences so far. I am just not sure why everyone WANTS one, when it likely will be directed by Zack Snyder and have her likely get raped or something as "character development" (Hey, it worked for 300 and Sucker Punch, RIGHT?)
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ScytheRexx said:
I am not saying they shouldn't try. Just saying I have little faith based on the experiences so far. I am just not sure why everyone WANTS one, when it likely will be directed by Zack Snyder and have her likely get raped or something as "character development" (Hey, it worked for 300 and Sucker Punch, RIGHT?)
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That'd be my bet.
 
Covar

Covar

ScytheRexx said:
I am not saying they shouldn't try. Just saying I have little faith based on the experiences so far. I am just not sure why everyone WANTS one, when it likely will be directed by Zack Snyder and have her likely get raped or something as "character development" (Hey, it worked for 300 and Sucker Punch, RIGHT?)
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And well get the N52/Amazons Attack treatment of making everyone on Paradise Island a bunch of insane man-hating lesbians who can't understand why a mother might not want them to murde her 9 month old son.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Oh, God, the New 52 and their treatment of women for the most part is just deplorable.

The aforementioned Batwoman is the exception, not the rule.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Zero Esc said:
Actually, people were saying that when WB was gearing up for Man of Steel.

They were right.
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But were they asking "Why would you want a Superman movie?" I know they were right about what was going to happen, but did they question why people would even want any Superman movie made at all?
 
Krisken

Krisken

ScytheRexx said:
I am not saying they shouldn't try. Just saying I have little faith based on the experiences so far. I am just not sure why everyone WANTS one, when it likely will be directed by Zack Snyder and have her likely get raped or something as "character development" (Hey, it worked for 300 and Sucker Punch, RIGHT?)
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I guess that's a possibility. I think the outrage would be pretty severe from the people who are their fans, though.

To be honest, I've never been a big DC guy. Their characters have often been pretty cookie cutter to me.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Krisken said:
I guess that's a possibility. I think the outrage would be pretty severe from the people who are their fans, though.
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Like the outrage over certain events in Man of Steel have stopped them from making Zack Snyder the Justice League director?

Oh wait...
 
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