[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.

checkeredhat · Feb 21, 2015

Aquaman was confirmed ages ago. I think bwfore Wonderwoman, actually. Also Cyborg. Recently they confirmed that the Shazam movie WOULD be part of the shared universe as well.

So we've got:

Batman

Superman

Wonderwoman

Aquaman

Cyborg

Shazam

?

Confirmed so far. Most likely everyone but Batman and Superman will be relegated to brief cameos or even post credits scenes in this movie- unless Snyder is destroying this completely intentionally

CynicismKills · Feb 21, 2015

You guys didn't hear about The Flash?

Covar · Feb 21, 2015

The last thing I want is Snyder getting his hands on the arrow and flash TV universe.

Regarding introducing 7 characters in a single movie. I think doing a seven samurai plot would be a fantastic way to start a Justice League movie and dc cinematic universe.

Celt Z · Feb 21, 2015

checkeredhat said:
Aquaman was confirmed ages ago. I think bwfore Wonderwoman, actually. Also Cyborg. Recently they confirmed that the Shazam movie WOULD be part of the shared universe as well.

So we've got:

Batman

Superman

Wonderwoman

Aquaman

Cyborg

Shazam

?

Confirmed so far. Most likely everyone but Batman and Superman will be relegated to brief cameos or even post credits scenes in this movie- unless Snyder is destroying this completely intentionally

They did also announce there would be a new Green Lantern movie, so I'm guessing he's 7.

Hailey Knight · Feb 21, 2015

Covar said:
The last thing I want is Snyder getting his hands on the arrow and flash TV universe.

Regarding introducing 7 characters in a single movie. I think doing a seven samurai plot would be a fantastic way to start a Justice League movie and dc cinematic universe.

That sounds fun.

But would they do it?

jwhouk · Feb 21, 2015

And here I thought it was a play on "the Seven Seas".

CynicismKills · Feb 21, 2015

Covar said:
The last thing I want is Snyder getting his hands on the arrow and flash TV universe.

Regarding introducing 7 characters in a single movie. I think doing a seven samurai plot would be a fantastic way to start a Justice League movie and dc cinematic universe.

Well that's the good news in it, I suppose. Like the article says they're bringing in a new actor for movie Flash, which should be interesting at least because I think Gustin's doing a great job right now (plus some pretty decent writing) and it'll be tough to do it better.

Bowielee · Feb 22, 2015

jwhouk said:
And here I thought it was a play on "the Seven Seas".

That was what I originally thought, then it dawned on me that it meant bringing together them members of the Justice League.

I'm still pretty irked by the exclusion of Martian Manhunter. He's been in almost every single incarnation of the JL. He's probably been their most consistent member.

bhamv3 · Feb 23, 2015

Fun Size said:
If I'm promised that Superman loses his shit and kills someone.

I hadn't realized how much I want a movie version of Injustice before I read this sentence.

Hailey Knight · Feb 23, 2015

bhamv3 said:
I hadn't realized how much I want a movie version of Injustice before I read this sentence.

We already have that. It's an animated movie. It's call "watch a video of all the cutscenes." That was my first exposure to the game before PS Plus started giving it away for free, and I thought it was a pretty good DC animated movie.

bhamv3 · Feb 23, 2015

Zero Esc said:
We already have that. It's an animated movie. It's call "watch a video of all the cutscenes." That was my first exposure to the game before PS Plus started giving it away for free, and I thought it was a pretty good DC animated movie.

Well, yes, but I meant the prequel comics too.

Bowielee · Feb 23, 2015

That Shazam scene... I still just... that was done so well.

Ravenpoe · Feb 23, 2015

Bowielee said:
That Shazam scene... I still just... that was done so well.

"Anyone else?"

Nope nope nope nope great plan Superman.

Bowielee · Feb 24, 2015

Celt Z · Feb 24, 2015

Bowielee said:

That last part? :rofl:

Also

(Marvel had yet to put out a female-lead movie, but Wonder Woman is going to be Snyder-tainted so....yeah.)

Null · Feb 24, 2015

But Marvel does have Agent Carter, and will have Captain Marvel, so it's still ahead on that mark. Plus you can't argue that Black Widow and Agent Hill haven't represented proudly.

Celt Z · Feb 24, 2015

Null said:
But Marvel does have Agent Carter, and will have Captain Marvel, so it's still ahead on that mark. Plus you can't argue that Black Widow and Agent Hill haven't represented proudly.

Wellllll... yes and no. They've been present, pretty good characterization and Agent Carter got a mini-series, but the screen time given to people not named "Chris", "Robert" or "Hulk" hasn't come close to equal. But to be honest, I've always felt like Black Widow is a better support character than a solo star. It could be because I started reading the Avengers in the 80's, but to me, it always seemed like Scarlet Witch was a top-tier Avenger and probably better suited for a solo movie/series. At this point, I'm not sure if that would work with her current Elizabeth Olsen incarnation and always being paired with Quicksilver.

EDIT: To my understanding, they're also pushing Captain Marvel and Black Panther back to make room for more Spider-Man. Spider-Man is my favorite Marvel character, but he's gotten 5 solo movies in a little over a decade. I think we can focus on some more of the Marvel Universe for a little while.

Gryfter · Feb 24, 2015

See, I think Widow got great representation in Avengers. She gets most of the really good lines too. The scene at the beginning where she is interrogated by the Russians and her confrontation with Loki in the "Hulk-proof" cell were great character scenes for her and two of the standout moments in the movie for me. There's also her scenes with Banner and Hulk that were outstanding as well. She also got great screen time in Winter Soldier both along side Steve and on her own.

I am betting that Wonder Woman won't fair as well in the Sv.B.

Bowielee · Feb 24, 2015

Yeah, I'll be shocked if WW isn't little more than window dressing in the WB movies.

CynicismKills · Feb 24, 2015

Gryfter said:
See, I think Widow got great representation in Avengers. She gets most of the really good lines too. The scene at the beginning where she is interrogated by the Russians and her confrontation with Loki in the "Hulk-proof" cell were great character scenes for her and two of the standout moments in the movie for me. There's also her scenes with Banner and Hulk that were outstanding as well. She also got great screen time in Winter Soldier both along side Steve and on her own.

I am betting that Wonder Woman won't fair as well in the Sv.B.

I thought she was pretty well-used in Winter Soldier, too, but then everyone was.

Covar · Feb 24, 2015

CynicismKills said:
I thought she was pretty well-used in Winter Soldier, too, but then everyone was.

I like her better in Winter Soldier than in Avengers where it really just felt like Whedon was giving her the lines he originally wanted for Wasp.

bhamv3 · Feb 24, 2015

I like how in the Avengers, when Romanov is leading Cap and Banner to the Helicarrier's bridge, she suddenly looks back at them with a knowing glance, because she just knows that they (and by extension the audience) are staring at her butt.

checkeredhat · Feb 25, 2015

Celt Z said:
They did also announce there would be a new Green Lantern movie, so I'm guessing he's 7.

Maybe, but i was pretty sure that was scheduled for down the road, well after the justice League movie.

The more i think about it, i think jwhouk might be right. The seven seas. Makes sense.

Celt Z · Mar 5, 2015

...godDAMMIT, Warner Bros.

Warner Bros. CEO says DC movies will be "edgier" than Marvel.

The worlds of DC are very different. They’re steeped in realism, and they’re a little bit edgier than Marvel’s movies.

For the last time, your characters are all based on legends and magic! Marvel is steeped in (bad) science! For the love of everything holy, would you read the books your property comes from just once?!?

Bowielee · Mar 5, 2015

Well, that officially confirms what I've been saying all along.

What I find HILARIOUS in all of this is that when I was reading comics as a kid, DC was the company that had the big doofy more "comic booky" books, and Marvel were the ones that tended towards more character centric drama type stuff. It's like bizarro world up in here.

Null · Mar 5, 2015

It's like they completely missed the fact that The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier made enormous bank by intentionally avoiding "gritty, edgy" bullshit and just gave us compelling heroes who demonstrate that, even though they may be flawed people, they rise above, striving for ideals and for the greater good.

Batman should be gritty. Arrow has made a good case for him being gritty. But Superman should NOT be gritty. The Justice League should NOT be gritty. And WB just doesn't get it.

Gryfter · Mar 5, 2015

Null said:
It's like they completely missed the fact that The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier made enormous bank by intentionally avoiding "gritty, edgy" bullshit and just gave us compelling heroes who demonstrate that, even though they may be flawed people, they rise above, striving for ideals and for the greater good.

Batman should be gritty. Arrow has made a good case for him being gritty. But Superman should NOT be gritty. The Justice League should NOT be gritty. And WB just doesn't get it.

Well said.

Ravenpoe · Mar 5, 2015

Null said:
It's like they completely missed the fact that The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier made enormous bank by intentionally avoiding "gritty, edgy" bullshit and just gave us compelling heroes who demonstrate that, even though they may be flawed people, they rise above, striving for ideals and for the greater good.

Batman should be gritty. Arrow has made a good case for him being gritty. But Superman should NOT be gritty. The Justice League should NOT be gritty. And WB just doesn't get it.

The winter soldier is a great example of how to do high stakes dramatics without turning the world to grim dark. It dealt with a serious threat, an evil order committing genocide across the world, and got heavy at times, but the atmosphere was never grim. This is because Steve Rogers was the story's moral foundation. He remained hopeful, he inspired those around him, and even if he had doubts, he didn't shy away from what he knew had to be done. Even if the world turned dark around him, he was going to be a shining light.

Basically, he was everything Superman should have been in Man of Steel, but wasn't.

ThatNickGuy · Mar 5, 2015

So it's confirmed, then. The CEO of WB is a fucking moron. Awesome.

I miss enjoying and being excited for the superheroes I grew up on.

[DOUBLEPOST=1425596352,1425596318][/DOUBLEPOST]

Ravenpoe said:
The winter soldier is a great example of how to do high stakes dramatics without turning the world to grim dark. It dealt with a serious threat, an evil order committing genocide across the world, and got heavy at times, but the atmosphere was never grim. This is because Steve Rogers was the story's moral foundation. He remained hopeful, he inspired those around him, and even if he had doubts, he didn't shy away from what he knew had to be done. Even if the world turned dark around him, he was going to be a shining light.

Basically, he was everything Superman should have been in Man of Steel, but wasn't.

Winter Soldier was a way better Superman movie than Man of Steel.

Null · Mar 6, 2015

Ravenpoe said:
The winter soldier is a great example of how to do high stakes dramatics without turning the world to grim dark. It dealt with a serious threat, an evil order committing genocide across the world, and got heavy at times, but the atmosphere was never grim. This is because Steve Rogers was the story's moral foundation. He remained hopeful, he inspired those around him, and even if he had doubts, he didn't shy away from what he knew had to be done. Even if the world turned dark around him, he was going to be a shining light.

Basically, he was everything Superman should have been in Man of Steel, but wasn't.

"Sorry, sir. I'm not going to launch those ships. Captain's orders." - in a weird way, that was the most powerful line in The Winter Soldier. It showed you just how much Steve inspired people, and how much they trusted him.

Ravenpoe · Mar 6, 2015

Null said:
"Sorry, sir. I'm not going to launch those ships. Captain's orders." - in a weird way, that was the most powerful line in The Winter Soldier. It showed you just how much Steve inspired people, and how much they trusted him.

That's by far my favorite part of the movie. Some lowly tech guy, bad guys with a gun against his head, knowing he's likely to get shot if he doesn't do as they say. But the inspiration from Cap is enough to make him refuse to be a part of it.

spoiling because it is a little bit of a spoiler.

Null · Mar 6, 2015

MAJOR SPOILERS for The Winter Soldier:

One of the biggest WHAM moments of the movie is Zola, of course. That whole reveal of HYDRA being part of SHIELD completely changes the Marvel Universe, and takes HYDRA from being "Wacky Jetpack Nazis", as they seemed to be in The First Avenger, to something far more dangerous - an organization playing both sides of the Cold War for generations to destabilize the entire world in order to further their goals. It puts the idea "cut off one head, and two more shall take its place" in a whole new light. Yes, Captain America took out Red Skull, the first head - and he was replaced by Zola and Baron von Strucker, both much more subtle and dangerous leaders. In addition it completely changes Iron Man 2 in retrospect - the Senator who wanted the Iron Man suit under his department's control was an agent of HYDRA! Imagine SHIELD trying to deal with dozens of Iron Man / War Machine type power armor suits, not the inferior Hammer knock-offs.

Bowielee · Mar 6, 2015

Ravenpoe said:
The winter soldier is a great example of how to do high stakes dramatics without turning the world to grim dark. It dealt with a serious threat, an evil order committing genocide across the world, and got heavy at times, but the atmosphere was never grim. This is because Steve Rogers was the story's moral foundation. He remained hopeful, he inspired those around him, and even if he had doubts, he didn't shy away from what he knew had to be done. Even if the world turned dark around him, he was going to be a shining light.

Basically, he was everything Superman should have been in Man of Steel, but wasn't.

I think, at the core, that DC has entirely lost sight of what superheroes in general represent. In the sake of realism, they've destroyed what makes superheroes appealing. Sure they can be flawed and falter some times, but even the sony and fox movies don't lose sight of the fact that despite everything, heroes are supposed to be better than us. They're supposed to be the ones we look to as examples of how we should be. They're not just power fantasy, they're also MORALITY fantasy. The good guys are the good guys and they try to be the best they can.

In DC in general now, the superheroes seem more like super powered soldiers. Which ties into the point you made about Capt. America being a better Superman than Superman. and in this case Cap actually is LITERALLY a soldier, but is able to show more of a moral code and center than Superman. What makes Superman great is that he's this guy who has the ability to punch entire planets apart, but at his core, he's that all-american corn fed Smallville boy who loves his ma and pa and does the best he can to adhere to the morals they instilled in him.

Charlie Don't Surf · Mar 6, 2015

I'll freely admit that the real test for DC's ambitious universe crap doesn't come until 2016, but looking right now... I think y'all are way exaggerating DC/WB's demise. Or don't realize this is kind of a vocal minority? The standard-bearers for their gritty vision - the last two Dark Knights and Man of Steel - that trilogy made more money than both LOTR trilogies (and even close to eclipsing the first one w/ inflation)...and also more than Marvel's last three movies.

DC isn't necessarily wrong or bad, it's just different. It feels like y'all are lining up to take a shit on DC because it isn't how you see the characters from whichever version you saw them earlier. Marvel can be not-gritty, make (some) good movies, and rake in their billions over here, and DC can also make billions over here, with (some) good movies, and a different gritty universe.

also just... I dunno, another absurdist point. The whole hunkering down in camps between DC and Marvel is again just really silly to me because, they're both making the EXACT SAME FUCKING MOVIE a dozen times each. I look forward to 2020, when there will be 22 MCU movies and ~10-12 DC movies. I bet if you did a terrifying multi-screen thing showing the movies at the same time, the action scenes, the asthetic, the plot beats would hum along right in tune. Zach Snyder seems like just a darker side of the same coin as Joss Whedon as an action director, tbh.

this is kind of rambling now and I'm not sure my point. I just don't get the vitriol for DC. Man of Steel wasn't that bad. I thought pretty much anyone thought the Nolan Trilogy was flawed, but solid. Going solely on cast stuff, DC seems like it has a lot of promise. I think Suicide Squad is going to fit in very perfectly and be a DC version of Guardians, tbh. David Ayer and James Gunn kind of fall into the same niche.

bhamv3 · Mar 6, 2015

Out of curiosity, Charlie, what did you think of Green Lantern, especially when compared to other superhero movies?