Fantastic Beasts and Magic in North America (POTTER MEGA THREAD!)

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Wasn't sure if there would be a lot of excitement over this or not so I'm sticking it in it's own thread.





So we're finally getting another Wizarding World movie this November... and later today (March 8th) we're getting the first of the 4-part series on Magic in North America. Anyone else excited?
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

J.K. Rowling facing accusations of racism over including Native American mythology in "Magic in North America" series.

Not sure how I feel about this one... on the one hand, removing the context of Skinwalkers from it's culture and just saying they were Animagus cheapens what those stories were actually about. On the other hand, expecting a British person (writing a book on America from a British viewpoint) to understand the cultural differences between the literally hundreds of Native tribes when she isn't a trained sociologist is a bit much and it's unfair to single her out as undermining their on-going efforts to get the public to understand this distinction, especially when it's clear she is trying to inclusive by giving them so much focus to begin with.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

AshburnerX said:
J.K. Rowling facing accusations of racism over including Native American mythology in "Magic in North America" series.

Not sure how I feel about this one... on the one hand, removing the context of Skinwalkers from it's culture and just saying they were Animagus cheapens what those stories were actually about. On the other hand, expecting a British person (writing a book on America from a British viewpoint) to understand the cultural differences between the literally hundreds of Native tribes when she isn't a trained sociologist is a bit much and it's unfair to single her out as undermining their on-going efforts to get the public to understand this distinction, especially when it's clear she is trying to inclusive by giving them so much focus to begin with.
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Isn't all of Harry Potter pretty much a mishmash of various mythological and folklore elements borrowed from tons of different sources and cultures?
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
Isn't all of Harry Potter pretty much a mishmash of various mythological and folklore elements borrowed from tons of different sources and cultures?
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There are those who maintain that the Potter universe is the "real" one, and that all the mythologies are just the skewed bastardizations of the regions involved.

--Patrick
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Ravenpoe said:
Isn't all of Harry Potter pretty much a mishmash of various mythological and folklore elements borrowed from tons of different sources and cultures?
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Yes, but most cultures have had their myths in the mainstream long enough that alterations and bastardizations are fine... the original source isn't going anywhere. Compare that to a lot of Native tribes, who have a very real threat of their traditions just disappearing in a few generations because of how few of them are still around to pass them down. That's not even getting into how difficult it is for each tribe to preserve their OWN cultural heritage without it turning into some weird amalgamation in 3 generations.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

AshburnerX said:
Yes, but most cultures have had their myths in the mainstream long enough that alterations and bastardizations are fine... the original source isn't going anywhere. Compare that to a lot of Native tribes, who have a very real threat of their traditions just disappearing in a few generations because of how few of them are still around to pass them down. That's not even getting into how difficult it is for each tribe to preserve their OWN cultural heritage without it turning into some weird amalgamation in 3 generations.
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I still don't see a reason for outrage. If it's ok to borrow from all these cultures, but then not this culture, my main question would be why.
 
ThatGrinningIdiot!

ThatGrinningIdiot!

AshburnerX said:
J.K. Rowling facing accusations of racism over including Native American mythology in "Magic in North America" series.

Not sure how I feel about this one... on the one hand, removing the context of Skinwalkers from it's culture and just saying they were Animagus cheapens what those stories were actually about. On the other hand, expecting a British person (writing a book on America from a British viewpoint) to understand the cultural differences between the literally hundreds of Native tribes when she isn't a trained sociologist is a bit much and it's unfair to single her out as undermining their on-going efforts to get the public to understand this distinction, especially when it's clear she is trying to inclusive by giving them so much focus to begin with.
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I'm so weary of Native Americans complaining about cultural appropriation, we have serious problems that require our attention instead of picking on a high profile author because she's an easy target for cry-bullies; our own elders changed the wording, meaning, and intents of their own stories many times already to articulate an idea, it's an acceptable practice so long as you credit the original story and who it came from. We're also quite fucking happy to appropriate other cultures, inventions, ideas, and yet our own people needlessly complain whenever someone else does it, that's not how it should be if freedom of speech and multiculturalism is to work.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX said:
J.K. Rowling facing accusations of racism over including Native American mythology in "Magic in North America" series.

Not sure how I feel about this one... on the one hand, removing the context of Skinwalkers from it's culture and just saying they were Animagus cheapens what those stories were actually about. On the other hand, expecting a British person (writing a book on America from a British viewpoint) to understand the cultural differences between the literally hundreds of Native tribes when she isn't a trained sociologist is a bit much and it's unfair to single her out as undermining their on-going efforts to get the public to understand this distinction, especially when it's clear she is trying to inclusive by giving them so much focus to begin with.
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JK Rowling can't see the easily viewed "it takes two minutes to notice" differences between the British and American school systems; I don't expect her understanding of Native American cultures to go far beyond Peter Pan.
 
strawman

strawman

So I suppose I'm a thunderbird. Which makes me a gryffinbird. Or a thunindor. Or thyfferdird? I don't know, it's confusing.

Interesting sorting tests now, though, much better than when they first made them. Not that they mean anything more than any other Facebook test, but obviously I got the best two so in your face all you other houses.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Numerous writers have used Native American beliefs, customs, stories, etc. for stories, mixing up elements from different peoples, and haven't gotten much flak for it. I think people now are just upset because they expected better from JK Rowling, and it's just ... why?
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Zero Esc said:
Numerous writers have used Native American beliefs, customs, stories, etc. for stories, mixing up elements from different peoples, and haven't gotten much flak for it. I think people now are just upset because they expected better from JK Rowling, and it's just ... why?
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I don't think it is that they didn't get flak, it's just more light being shown on it these days. Trump is calling a senator "Pocahantas", people are realizing 'holy shit there's a billion dollar pro sport team called the redskins literally', and there's a general rise of awareness.

Also those writers weren't on as high a profile as JK Rowling, aka, the only author that millions of people have ever heard of/can name. And it's now in a franchise with billions of dollars.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I don't think it is that they didn't get flak, it's just more light being shown on it these days. Trump is calling a senator "Pocahantas", people are realizing 'holy shit there's a billion dollar pro sport team called the redskins literally', and there's a general rise of awareness.

Also those writers weren't on as high a profile as JK Rowling, aka, the only author that millions of people have ever heard of/can name. And it's now in a franchise with billions of dollars.
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There's definitely more awareness nowadays.

I want to throw in Stephen King as an author millions of people have heard of/can name who used Native American elements as integral parts of at least two novels, but neither is in a franchise worth billions of dollars, nor is he writing such things into an upcoming movie highly anticipated by people of all ages around the world.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Zero Esc said:
I want to throw in Stephen King as an author millions of people have heard of/can name who used Native American elements as integral parts of at least two novels, but neither is in a franchise worth billions of dollars, nor is he writing such things into an upcoming movie highly anticipated by people of all ages around the world.
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also I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Stephen King might have been more thoughtful about it than JK Rowling. I haven't read any of his books though, to be fair. I'm just basing it on his various thoughtful/liberal-leaning editorial things I've read. While Rowling is championing Brexit and posting nonsense like this -



edit - the quoted tweet is about Corbyn, she's shared 30 different articles trashing him in the last week.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Charlie Don't Surf said:
also I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Stephen King might have been more thoughtful about it than JK Rowling. I haven't read any of his books though, to be fair. I'm just basing it on his various thoughtful/liberal-leaning editorial things I've read.
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You are correct and I almost mentioned this but then didn't feel it was relevant. His instances were more respectful.

While Rowling is championing Brexit
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And using Harry Potter references, because yay. :facepalm: I should probably get out of this thread.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

I still say it's silly that it's ok to "change" lore surrounding witches, wizards, unicorns, giants, trolls, and what-have-you to build a fictitious world, but if you use creatures from other folklore than "Western European" (she mixes liberally from German, Saxon, French, Latin, Greek, Christian,...mythology, after all), it's suddenly horrible recuperation. I promise I won't complain about a Native American writer using "trolls" in a slightly different way than originally envisioned or as they're traditionally interpreted.

I mean, you can, of course, use them as clearly insulting - Djinns were often used as demon/devil stand-ins in Western fiction based in or around middle-eastern stories for example - but as far as I know none of what JKR wrote so far's been casting Native American beliefs in a negative light. Of course, she did shy away from calling Jesus pretty much just a strong wizard from before they went into hiding, while she does happily repurpose other religions' beliefs or myths as stories about magic....Eh.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

It's times like this that I kind of wish that Rowling would open up the Wizarding World to other writers, as she clearly has no great interest in filling out the expanded world in the way her fans and other writers are. She could really do it in the vein of the EU of Star Wars: acting as custodian to the playground of her works and moderating what is and isn't acceptable in her world, while allowing other writers to cover other aspects of it while forging their own stories. Not only would she make a FORTUNE doing this (and thus help her continue to fund her numerous charitable works), we could avoid shit like this.

Why aren't Native American writers helping her write this shit right now? Why hasn't Warner Brothers sat her down and went "You're embarrassing the fuck out of us, so we'd love to hire a team of Native American history and folklore specialists to talk with you about the various aspects of the story before it goes up?" Are they worried about losing out to another company for future books? And I know it's fucking disrespectful to the writer to make them jump through hops like this, but her works are greater than her at this point.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Zero Esc said:
Is it? I don't see this being widely reported; just us internet people noticing it, discussing it.
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And if Warner Brothers wasn't aware of this, I would be surprised. It's their job to be aware and they are a VAST company. But then again, them not being proper custodians of their works is part of why the aforementioned DC stuff has become a dumpster fire instead of a true competitor to the Marvel films. They could simply not know or just not care, content to let Rowling take the heat.
 
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