[Movies] Avengers: Endgame Spoilers Thread
- Thread starter Dave
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BErt
Gabba gabba we accept you we accept you one of us! Gabba gabba we accept you we accept you one of us! I don’t wanna be a pinhead no more! i just met a nurse that i could go for!
So...
What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
So...
What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And days of auld lang syne?
For the second one, Cap brought Mjolnir back with him when he went on his stone-returning trip, but didn't have it with him when he appeared as Old Man Cap, so presumably he also returned Mjolnir to its proper timeline.
For the third one, I'm guessing Spider-Man: Far From Home will address it a bit.
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And days of auld lang syne?
The first one will probably be explored in GotG3.
For the second one, Cap brought Mjolnir back with him when he went on his stone-returning trip, but didn't have it with him when he appeared as Old Man Cap, so presumably he also returned Mjolnir to its proper timeline.
For the third one, I'm guessing Spider-Man: Far From Home will address it a bit.
It would be nice if we actually knew this was a problem. On Chrome and XenBlue, the mouse-over preview is always of the first message. After all, Halforums discussions, by their (our?) very nature, take some very involved detours. We don't really need a problem that isn't really there encouraging people to worsen the signal-to-noise ratio further.
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Wow, what a movie. It's hard to imagine a movie successfully going bigger than this one. I loved quite a bit of it and had quibbles with a couple of the bits in the middle.
In no particular order:
I was really impressed on how the movie treated Iron Man. Not just the heroic bit at the end -- it really showed the dark future that he had been fighting against since Age of Ultron, and it added nuance to his side of Civil War. I loved how his big moment called back the line that changed comic book movies forever in the original movie. His final scene with the echo of Infinity War with Peter and the final bit with Pepper was note perfect.
Captain America's new weapon was one of the few times I've ever been in a theater and the audience full-on clapped in the middle of a movie. It was a wonderful moment and confirms the fan theory that Cap sandbagged it in "Age of Ultron". Even Thor suspected -- "I knew it!" Another great moment was when Cap finally got to say "Avengers Assemble". The fact that that line got cut off in AoU is probably my biggest frustration with that movie. And his ending is what we all wanted for Cap, and it felt like the movie earned it. It's great that Sam ended up with the shield and presumably the title. I'll need to rewatch the movie to be sure, but it certainly implied that Cap and Bucky had discussed who should be the next Captain America.
I think they might have been a little to "hand wavy" with how the time travel worked. It appeared that they were actually going back along the same timeline, which would then fork if they caused enough of disruption. The Ancient One talked about it in regards to the time stone, but I think that must apply to any major disruption. So, that means that the events of the movie likely spurred 2 new timelines, one in which Loki escapes after New York, and one in which Thanos suddenly disappears from the universe. The implies that Cap was able to lay low to stay in the original timeline. I wonder if that means that Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.
I really liked the character work that they did with the Black Widow, but I'm not sure her ending sits well with me. It feels like too much of an echo of Gamora's death in Infinity War.
I thought the way they brought Gamora back was probably the best way they could have done it. Her original death still happened and has weight. She's effectively been reset, so James Gunn has the option to use whatever character beats he wants to with her in Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
I'm glad Nebula survived and, presumably, is a part of the Guardians going forward. Interesting that she is now effectively the big sister to Gamora.
I like that Thor is also a part of the Guardians going forward, but I hope they realize the best part of Thor interacting with the Guardians isn't the friction between him and Quill. It's the friendship between him and Rocket.
I'm not sure exactly how to feel about Thor's journey. I enjoyed pretty much everything he did. I just can't quite shake the feeling that it was maybe a tick too humorous.
It was great seeing Korg, Miek, and Valkyrie again. Seeing Valkyrie flying into combat on a winged horse is something I didn't realize I had missed in my life until this movie.
Also, "I don't even know who you are." "You will."
I liked Dr. Strange's subtle indication to Tony Stark as to why Stark needed to survive Infinity War for the one chance to win.
The original Gamora was killed by Thanos. The alternate Gamora suddenly found herself in a universe that has been flipped on it's head. One moment, she's on the cusp of defying Thanos and becoming a hero. The next, she's in a universe in which she's unquestionably a hero. Thanos is gone. Her psychopath of a "sister" is now a hero and is also truly her sister. She has gone from being alone to having a family, including a man who thinks of her as the love of his life. She needed some alone time to sort all of that out.
Mjolnir was destroyed during the events of Thor: Ragnarok. It disappeared from Asgard for a moment on the day the Dark Elves attacked Asgard, but was returned by Captain America.
While I think it's fascinating that they didn't undo the universe after the snap, I'm not quite sure how any of it is going to work from a continuity standpoint.
For auld lang syne, my dear,
For auld lang syne
We'll take a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
There are so many details packed into this movie, some in particular I liked:
For auld lang syne
We'll take a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
There are so many details packed into this movie, some in particular I liked:
- The Ancient One actually participated in the defense of New York against the Chitauri, it's just that no one knew it. And that's perfectly in keeping with how the sorcerers work.
- There's a prototype Ant-Man helmet in young Hank Pym's lab.
- I might have imagined this, but it seemed like Tony was having trouble with his left arm in the dishwashing scene. This follows the subtle trend in the MCU movies for Tony to take his to his left arm, leading to long-term permanent damage.
Dave
Staff member
Miner spoiler to test the view: Professor Hulk just kind of appearing without explanation sucked.
PLEASE tell me if anyone can see this first one. If not, you can stop with the first lines of bullshit text.
Okay so I saw it last night at an 11 PM showing. Got out a little after 2 am and didn't get to bed until 4 or so. Why I was still up at 7:30 is a complete mystery to me and I might just collapse in a heap later. Some thoughts, though.
PLEASE tell me if anyone can see this first one. If not, you can stop with the first lines of bullshit text.
Okay so I saw it last night at an 11 PM showing. Got out a little after 2 am and didn't get to bed until 4 or so. Why I was still up at 7:30 is a complete mystery to me and I might just collapse in a heap later. Some thoughts, though.
- As I said, I disliked how they just brushed past the dramatic conflict between Banner and Hulk. It was a MAJOR part of Infinity War that they just...ignored. I realize that they had a lot to put in but there are moments that feel rushed and this one moves at light speed compared to that.
- Why does the MCU hate Spider-Man? 22 movies in and he's STILL never won a fight. Everything he does is to set up the MCU's precious Iron Man to be the hero. I love how he got his redemption, but fuck Iron Man. For a genius he's always so wrong about everything. The ONLY thing he's done right was to finally give up the suit, marry Pepper, & have a family. And, of course, the final snap that kills him.
- I thought the "girl power" portion of the movie was forced and kinda stupid. Yes, I know why they did it. But Captain Marvel just came down to Earth by flying THROUGH Thanos's ship. Why the fuck would she need a convoy of B-listers to get through a bunch of Chitari and disposable foot soldiers? Makes no sense other than to say, "Hey look! Girls are powerful!" It's a great message but needs to be more organic and not so ham-fisted.
- Giant-Man enters the fray and then...disappears?
- Hulk enters the fray and then...disappears?
- I loved how the time travel stuff was all over the place. So many things went wrong and can be exploited later.
- "Hail Hydra."
- "That is America's ass."
- That beginning. Holy shit. I mean, we all figured that's why Clint became the Ronan, but to open the movie like that. Holy fuckballs.
- The "death" of Thanos. For a second I thought, "Huh. Maybe they AREN'T going to go the whole time travel route." Then PSYCHE! Loved it.
- I also thought the parts where they included stuff from the older movies from different angles was pretty amazing. Watching Star Lord dancing and singing without the background music was hysterical. And the Hulk hulking out during the Battle of New York. Perfect.
- A lot of people are bitching about Black Widow's death but I really thought it fit. Frankly it could have been either her or Clint but her death seemed to be the better option. Clint had lost so much with his family but if they won he would get it all back. Natasha would still be technically alone even if everyone came back. Her sacrifice was as much for Clint as it was for her to feel redemption about what she had been in the past. And for Clint to lose his family and then his best friend makes it even more poignant.
- Thor "The Dude" Odinson. Seriously, what the fuck? Everything about Thor in this movie was fucking dumb. Ever since they decided to make "Asgardians of the Galaxy" (which, of course they actually said in a massive fan service bid) and make him a powerful but comedic character, everything about Thor is a joke. His body, his attitude, his motivations. All a joke. Even Korg & Meek (fucking hate the way they did these two) are a joke. Playing Fortnite & threatening kids online. Bravo. Yeah, people are saying PTSD but let's try and fix it by having him smacked around by a raccoon and even then still have him run like a coward.
- Pepper Potts in an Iron-Man suit.
- Why isn't Ant-Man dead from that explosion? It was right in his face and his helmet wasn't on.
I'm going to give more of an opinion later because I'm at the children's library right now.
Most important thoughts:
Most important thoughts:
That ending!!!!
Mr. Z watched me turn into a sobbing mess for reasons I didn't think I'd be crying.
Also, A-FORCE!!!!! I will love you forever, Russo Brothers! I wished so hard Widow was there. And Peggy could have seen it.
Mr. Z watched me turn into a sobbing mess for reasons I didn't think I'd be crying.
Also, A-FORCE!!!!! I will love you forever, Russo Brothers! I wished so hard Widow was there. And Peggy could have seen it.
So, first, a few lines for the possible preview problem.
Is this enough? Okay, let's go.
I don't have much to say. I just loved it. There were a couple shaky spots, and I think the "epilogues" will feel long on a second viewing. But oh God, I cried, I was on the edge of my seat, I wanted to clap or shout several times during the movie. It's the perfect comic-book movie adaptation, in the sense that it just feels like a comic crossover.
Oh, one plot hole I didn't read above: Why the fuck didn't they get Captain Marvel for the time traveling thingy? I mean, Rhodey without an armor is just some guy. I don't care if you need to wait for two months, shouldn't it be obvious to get the fucking Superman-like girl for a critical mission like this?
Regarding Gamora, I didn't really understand what happened with her: When Thor boards the Guardian's ship, Quill is searching for her on the computer and not finding her, isn't he?
Is this enough? Okay, let's go.
I don't have much to say. I just loved it. There were a couple shaky spots, and I think the "epilogues" will feel long on a second viewing. But oh God, I cried, I was on the edge of my seat, I wanted to clap or shout several times during the movie. It's the perfect comic-book movie adaptation, in the sense that it just feels like a comic crossover.
Oh, one plot hole I didn't read above: Why the fuck didn't they get Captain Marvel for the time traveling thingy? I mean, Rhodey without an armor is just some guy. I don't care if you need to wait for two months, shouldn't it be obvious to get the fucking Superman-like girl for a critical mission like this?
No, what she said (as I recall) is that the infinity stones, together, kept the timeline stable. If you take one out, you allow time to branch, but if all six are present, there is only a single timeline. According to this, there are no additional timelines at the end of the movie. I also thought about how Peggy's husband must have been Steve then, but it's a bit weird that no one recognized him (Sharon Carter must've met old Steve, right?).
Regarding Gamora, I didn't really understand what happened with her: When Thor boards the Guardian's ship, Quill is searching for her on the computer and not finding her, isn't he?
And the nod to the elevator fight scene in Winter Soldier! These nods were a lot of fun (and sweet, in an "end of an era" movie like this one)
Mr. Z and I were talking about this one earlier:
Also Mr. Z: "You always wanted me to have the physique of Thor. You got your wish!"
If Steve went back in time to return the stones, what did he do with the Soul Stone? Did he give it back to Red Skull? THAT must have been an awkward conversation.
Also Mr. Z: "You always wanted me to have the physique of Thor. You got your wish!"
I agree, the girl power part was dumb AF. Captain Marvel does not need help from plebs.
I think I just don't like Avengers movies for the most part. I found this movie to be extremely meh, but at least I didn't feel 3 hours passing.
I had to google who that kid was at the end, apparently it was the kid Tony met in Iron Man 3.
Also, please dear God, have Chris Hemsworth sign on to join Guardians of the Galaxy.
I think I just don't like Avengers movies for the most part. I found this movie to be extremely meh, but at least I didn't feel 3 hours passing.
I had to google who that kid was at the end, apparently it was the kid Tony met in Iron Man 3.
Also, please dear God, have Chris Hemsworth sign on to join Guardians of the Galaxy.
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Watched it last night. Great movie. My nitpicks are basically everything Dave already pointed out. Nice closure for some the characters. Even though I wished everybody get an ending like Steve.
I guess she left after the fight, since she is from a point of time before joining the Guardians she doesn't have any emotional connection to them.
or the Ether stone? Did he went to Asgard and inject it back into Jane Foster?
so anybody else think the 5 year skip could actually lead to horrible consequences? All the survivors are 5 years older but the vanished haven't aged or have any memory what happened. What about the people who moved on? Maybe dating or remarried? We see that the people reappear where they vanished. What about those who vanished on planes?
You need some handwaving, because logistically the world would be fucked without it.
Ham-fisted, yes, but I would rather have this kind of 2-second fan-service than any amount of the usual Joss Whedon gratuitous boobs-and-butts, damseling or shrewing. It was like a dream splash page, even though action-wise it was better executed in Infinity War (Okoye/Widow/SWitch/Proxima).
They just did it very wrong, and I get why they did it, but it was terrible. They could have done it before Captain Marvel showed up and had her take the last handoff when she came in blazing from blowing up the ship and it would have worked 1000x better. (Or she could have shown up sooner instead of being Deus ex Carol)
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I'll admit to thinking at the beginning of that scene, "They aren't going to do a women only shot are they?", and well, there it was and it was better than I had expected. Ham-fisted would have been someone saying "girls are here! girls rule! WOOOOO". But instead we got what are essentially the strongest hitters in the MCU deck as the vanguard to advancing troops. No leadup, no discussion, just these characters in this place at this time doing a team job. Even my corrupted masculine heart couldn't help but be a little impressed by this decision. I can't help but wonder if my young niece will be as equally marvelled by our women heroes in this movie.
Dave
Staff member
This thread is for talking freely about the movie until about a month after release or whenever spoilers are so ubiquitous that hiding them no longer matters.
Dave
Staff member
So something my son and I talked about after the movie and that's the absolute strife that this victory cost throughout the universe.
First, people who died because they were killed and not snapped are NOT coming back. So Vision isn't, nor is anyone who was riding in a car that crashed because the driver went away, or a passenger on a plane that went down, or an infant died because their caregivers are gone, etc. But they alluded to the fact that world governments are all bonkers, which is what this is about.
When you take out half the population you are creating a massive amount of power vacuums. Governments that were dictatorships are now leaderless. Governments who are more democratic have new leaders based (hopefully) on the chain of command. But the years after the Snap would be bloody and painful. And assuming that the wars have wound down in 5 years - not a guarantee - then the reversal of the Snap would cause all of the snapped to come back. To them no time has passed and because of the line from Spider-Man they are fully aware of what had transpired!! They KNOW that they were gone. All of their friends, family, lovers, etc are half a decade older. So while people are all back, the next few years are going to be filled with bloodshed and tears and not a few suicides.
In a lot of cases it would have been better if the Snap had stayed.
Dave
Staff member
No, Thanos is only dead AFTER the snap. Cap had to put all the stones back so Thanos could get them, do the Snap, etc.
Now....Having said all of that, since Thanos accessed Nebula's database and can forward into the future, wouldn't that mean that there could be no Snap?
Look, it's a time travel movie. When they stick to the rules it makes sense but they absolutely did not stick to the rules. So...
Now....Having said all of that, since Thanos accessed Nebula's database and can forward into the future, wouldn't that mean that there could be no Snap?
Look, it's a time travel movie. When they stick to the rules it makes sense but they absolutely did not stick to the rules. So...
They could had captain return as an old man. That would not break their own rules.
It was pretty ham fisted. My daughter and I basically just made fun of it afterwards. If they had backed up *any other character* it might have been ok, but Captain Marvel is well beyond the power level of those other characters (except maybe Scarlet Witch) and they didn't actually help her at all.
- I'm more bothered that both Nat and Clint seemed blind-sided by the sacrifice. Isn't it a dick move of Tony and Nebula not to mention it? They knew who was going to Vormir, this should have been part of the discussion as they were making up the teams.
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- It is also a currently-running comic title featuring some of the characters from the movie, so a little fan-service, or a little product placement?
I think Nebula knew why. I actually kind of expected her to go to Vormir so I was surprised when she didn't.
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I need to rewatch IW, I could have sworn Thanos explaining how he got the Soul Stone is what set Quill off. But Nebula had to know because she told past-Gamora what happend to her (or was about to. I assume by their friendship she did.) So at the very least, Nebula knew, but then again, the only 2 Avengers she remotely cared about at that point were Rocket and Tony, so maybe she just didn't give a damn.