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Avengers: Endgame Spoilers Thread
#1
Dave
Dave
Talk about the movie here and forget the spoiler tag. Just remember to put an image or a couple lines of nonsense first. I can’t remember but I think that some previews would show the first few lines of text and we don’t want to give anything away.
#2
Bubble181
Bubble181
Man, can you believe they actually let Ant-Man crawl up Thanos' ass, after all? Wow!
Shame they killed off all those other would-be heroes first so that he could really shine in that role, though, that was a bit unnecessary.
...Does it show I haven't seen the movie yet?
Shame they killed off all those other would-be heroes first so that he could really shine in that role, though, that was a bit unnecessary.
...Does it show I haven't seen the movie yet?
#3
BErt
BErt
Gabba gabba we accept you we accept you one of us! Gabba gabba we accept you we accept you one of us! I don’t wanna be a pinhead no more! i just met a nurse that i could go for!
So...
What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
So...
What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
#4
bhamv3
bhamv3
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And days of auld lang syne?
For the second one, Cap brought Mjolnir back with him when he went on his stone-returning trip, but didn't have it with him when he appeared as Old Man Cap, so presumably he also returned Mjolnir to its proper timeline.
For the third one, I'm guessing Spider-Man: Far From Home will address it a bit.
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And days of auld lang syne?
The first one will probably be explored in GotG3.What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
For the second one, Cap brought Mjolnir back with him when he went on his stone-returning trip, but didn't have it with him when he appeared as Old Man Cap, so presumably he also returned Mjolnir to its proper timeline.
For the third one, I'm guessing Spider-Man: Far From Home will address it a bit.
#5
evilmike
-----------------------
Wow, what a movie. It's hard to imagine a movie successfully going bigger than this one. I loved quite a bit of it and had quibbles with a couple of the bits in the middle.
In no particular order:
I was really impressed on how the movie treated Iron Man. Not just the heroic bit at the end -- it really showed the dark future that he had been fighting against since Age of Ultron, and it added nuance to his side of Civil War. I loved how his big moment called back the line that changed comic book movies forever in the original movie. His final scene with the echo of Infinity War with Peter and the final bit with Pepper was note perfect.
Captain America's new weapon was one of the few times I've ever been in a theater and the audience full-on clapped in the middle of a movie. It was a wonderful moment and confirms the fan theory that Cap sandbagged it in "Age of Ultron". Even Thor suspected -- "I knew it!" Another great moment was when Cap finally got to say "Avengers Assemble". The fact that that line got cut off in AoU is probably my biggest frustration with that movie. And his ending is what we all wanted for Cap, and it felt like the movie earned it. It's great that Sam ended up with the shield and presumably the title. I'll need to rewatch the movie to be sure, but it certainly implied that Cap and Bucky had discussed who should be the next Captain America.
I think they might have been a little to "hand wavy" with how the time travel worked. It appeared that they were actually going back along the same timeline, which would then fork if they caused enough of disruption. The Ancient One talked about it in regards to the time stone, but I think that must apply to any major disruption. So, that means that the events of the movie likely spurred 2 new timelines, one in which Loki escapes after New York, and one in which Thanos suddenly disappears from the universe. The implies that Cap was able to lay low to stay in the original timeline. I wonder if that means that Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.
I really liked the character work that they did with the Black Widow, but I'm not sure her ending sits well with me. It feels like too much of an echo of Gamora's death in Infinity War.
I thought the way they brought Gamora back was probably the best way they could have done it. Her original death still happened and has weight. She's effectively been reset, so James Gunn has the option to use whatever character beats he wants to with her in Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
I'm glad Nebula survived and, presumably, is a part of the Guardians going forward. Interesting that she is now effectively the big sister to Gamora.
I like that Thor is also a part of the Guardians going forward, but I hope they realize the best part of Thor interacting with the Guardians isn't the friction between him and Quill. It's the friendship between him and Rocket.
I'm not sure exactly how to feel about Thor's journey. I enjoyed pretty much everything he did. I just can't quite shake the feeling that it was maybe a tick too humorous.
It was great seeing Korg, Miek, and Valkyrie again. Seeing Valkyrie flying into combat on a winged horse is something I didn't realize I had missed in my life until this movie.
Also, "I don't even know who you are." "You will."
I liked Dr. Strange's subtle indication to Tony Stark as to why Stark needed to survive Infinity War for the one chance to win.
Mjolnir was destroyed during the events of Thor: Ragnarok. It disappeared from Asgard for a moment on the day the Dark Elves attacked Asgard, but was returned by Captain America.
While I think it's fascinating that they didn't undo the universe after the snap, I'm not quite sure how any of it is going to work from a continuity standpoint.
evilmike
It would be nice if we actually knew this was a problem. On Chrome and XenBlue, the mouse-over preview is always of the first message. After all, Halforums discussions, by their (our?) very nature, take some very involved detours. We don't really need a problem that isn't really there encouraging people to worsen the signal-to-noise ratio further.Talk about the movie here and forget the spoiler tag. Just remember to put an image or a couple lines of nonsense first. I can’t remember but I think that some previews would show the first few lines of text and we don’t want to give anything away.
-----------------------
Wow, what a movie. It's hard to imagine a movie successfully going bigger than this one. I loved quite a bit of it and had quibbles with a couple of the bits in the middle.
In no particular order:
I was really impressed on how the movie treated Iron Man. Not just the heroic bit at the end -- it really showed the dark future that he had been fighting against since Age of Ultron, and it added nuance to his side of Civil War. I loved how his big moment called back the line that changed comic book movies forever in the original movie. His final scene with the echo of Infinity War with Peter and the final bit with Pepper was note perfect.
Captain America's new weapon was one of the few times I've ever been in a theater and the audience full-on clapped in the middle of a movie. It was a wonderful moment and confirms the fan theory that Cap sandbagged it in "Age of Ultron". Even Thor suspected -- "I knew it!" Another great moment was when Cap finally got to say "Avengers Assemble". The fact that that line got cut off in AoU is probably my biggest frustration with that movie. And his ending is what we all wanted for Cap, and it felt like the movie earned it. It's great that Sam ended up with the shield and presumably the title. I'll need to rewatch the movie to be sure, but it certainly implied that Cap and Bucky had discussed who should be the next Captain America.
I think they might have been a little to "hand wavy" with how the time travel worked. It appeared that they were actually going back along the same timeline, which would then fork if they caused enough of disruption. The Ancient One talked about it in regards to the time stone, but I think that must apply to any major disruption. So, that means that the events of the movie likely spurred 2 new timelines, one in which Loki escapes after New York, and one in which Thanos suddenly disappears from the universe. The implies that Cap was able to lay low to stay in the original timeline. I wonder if that means that Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.
I really liked the character work that they did with the Black Widow, but I'm not sure her ending sits well with me. It feels like too much of an echo of Gamora's death in Infinity War.
I thought the way they brought Gamora back was probably the best way they could have done it. Her original death still happened and has weight. She's effectively been reset, so James Gunn has the option to use whatever character beats he wants to with her in Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
I'm glad Nebula survived and, presumably, is a part of the Guardians going forward. Interesting that she is now effectively the big sister to Gamora.
I like that Thor is also a part of the Guardians going forward, but I hope they realize the best part of Thor interacting with the Guardians isn't the friction between him and Quill. It's the friendship between him and Rocket.
I'm not sure exactly how to feel about Thor's journey. I enjoyed pretty much everything he did. I just can't quite shake the feeling that it was maybe a tick too humorous.
It was great seeing Korg, Miek, and Valkyrie again. Seeing Valkyrie flying into combat on a winged horse is something I didn't realize I had missed in my life until this movie.
Also, "I don't even know who you are." "You will."
I liked Dr. Strange's subtle indication to Tony Stark as to why Stark needed to survive Infinity War for the one chance to win.
The original Gamora was killed by Thanos. The alternate Gamora suddenly found herself in a universe that has been flipped on it's head. One moment, she's on the cusp of defying Thanos and becoming a hero. The next, she's in a universe in which she's unquestionably a hero. Thanos is gone. Her psychopath of a "sister" is now a hero and is also truly her sister. She has gone from being alone to having a family, including a man who thinks of her as the love of his life. She needed some alone time to sort all of that out.What happened to Gamora?
What happenes to Mjolnir?
Happy class of ...uh, 5 years later, everyone at Peter’s school!
Mjolnir was destroyed during the events of Thor: Ragnarok. It disappeared from Asgard for a moment on the day the Dark Elves attacked Asgard, but was returned by Captain America.
While I think it's fascinating that they didn't undo the universe after the snap, I'm not quite sure how any of it is going to work from a continuity standpoint.
#6
bhamv3
bhamv3
For auld lang syne, my dear,
For auld lang syne
We'll take a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
There are so many details packed into this movie, some in particular I liked:
For auld lang syne
We'll take a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
There are so many details packed into this movie, some in particular I liked:
- The Ancient One actually participated in the defense of New York against the Chitauri, it's just that no one knew it. And that's perfectly in keeping with how the sorcerers work.
- There's a prototype Ant-Man helmet in young Hank Pym's lab.
- I might have imagined this, but it seemed like Tony was having trouble with his left arm in the dishwashing scene. This follows the subtle trend in the MCU movies for Tony to take his to his left arm, leading to long-term permanent damage.
#7
Dave
Dave
Miner spoiler to test the view: Professor Hulk just kind of appearing without explanation sucked.
PLEASE tell me if anyone can see this first one. If not, you can stop with the first lines of bullshit text.
Okay so I saw it last night at an 11 PM showing. Got out a little after 2 am and didn't get to bed until 4 or so. Why I was still up at 7:30 is a complete mystery to me and I might just collapse in a heap later. Some thoughts, though.
PLEASE tell me if anyone can see this first one. If not, you can stop with the first lines of bullshit text.
Okay so I saw it last night at an 11 PM showing. Got out a little after 2 am and didn't get to bed until 4 or so. Why I was still up at 7:30 is a complete mystery to me and I might just collapse in a heap later. Some thoughts, though.
- As I said, I disliked how they just brushed past the dramatic conflict between Banner and Hulk. It was a MAJOR part of Infinity War that they just...ignored. I realize that they had a lot to put in but there are moments that feel rushed and this one moves at light speed compared to that.
- Why does the MCU hate Spider-Man? 22 movies in and he's STILL never won a fight. Everything he does is to set up the MCU's precious Iron Man to be the hero. I love how he got his redemption, but fuck Iron Man. For a genius he's always so wrong about everything. The ONLY thing he's done right was to finally give up the suit, marry Pepper, & have a family. And, of course, the final snap that kills him.
- I thought the "girl power" portion of the movie was forced and kinda stupid. Yes, I know why they did it. But Captain Marvel just came down to Earth by flying THROUGH Thanos's ship. Why the fuck would she need a convoy of B-listers to get through a bunch of Chitari and disposable foot soldiers? Makes no sense other than to say, "Hey look! Girls are powerful!" It's a great message but needs to be more organic and not so ham-fisted.
- Giant-Man enters the fray and then...disappears?
- Hulk enters the fray and then...disappears?
- I loved how the time travel stuff was all over the place. So many things went wrong and can be exploited later.
- "Hail Hydra."
- "That is America's ass."
- That beginning. Holy shit. I mean, we all figured that's why Clint became the Ronan, but to open the movie like that. Holy fuckballs.
- The "death" of Thanos. For a second I thought, "Huh. Maybe they AREN'T going to go the whole time travel route." Then PSYCHE! Loved it.
- I also thought the parts where they included stuff from the older movies from different angles was pretty amazing. Watching Star Lord dancing and singing without the background music was hysterical. And the Hulk hulking out during the Battle of New York. Perfect.
- A lot of people are bitching about Black Widow's death but I really thought it fit. Frankly it could have been either her or Clint but her death seemed to be the better option. Clint had lost so much with his family but if they won he would get it all back. Natasha would still be technically alone even if everyone came back. Her sacrifice was as much for Clint as it was for her to feel redemption about what she had been in the past. And for Clint to lose his family and then his best friend makes it even more poignant.
- Thor "The Dude" Odinson. Seriously, what the fuck? Everything about Thor in this movie was fucking dumb. Ever since they decided to make "Asgardians of the Galaxy" (which, of course they actually said in a massive fan service bid) and make him a powerful but comedic character, everything about Thor is a joke. His body, his attitude, his motivations. All a joke. Even Korg & Meek (fucking hate the way they did these two) are a joke. Playing Fortnite & threatening kids online. Bravo. Yeah, people are saying PTSD but let's try and fix it by having him smacked around by a raccoon and even then still have him run like a coward.
- Pepper Potts in an Iron-Man suit.
- Why isn't Ant-Man dead from that explosion? It was right in his face and his helmet wasn't on.
#8
Celt Z
Celt Z
I'm going to give more of an opinion later because I'm at the children's library right now.
Most important thoughts:
Most important thoughts:
That ending!!!!
Mr. Z watched me turn into a sobbing mess for reasons I didn't think I'd be crying.
Also, A-FORCE!!!!! I will love you forever, Russo Brothers! I wished so hard Widow was there. And Peggy could have seen it.
Mr. Z watched me turn into a sobbing mess for reasons I didn't think I'd be crying.
Also, A-FORCE!!!!! I will love you forever, Russo Brothers! I wished so hard Widow was there. And Peggy could have seen it.
#9
tegid
tegid
So, first, a few lines for the possible preview problem.
Is this enough? Okay, let's go.
I don't have much to say. I just loved it. There were a couple shaky spots, and I think the "epilogues" will feel long on a second viewing. But oh God, I cried, I was on the edge of my seat, I wanted to clap or shout several times during the movie. It's the perfect comic-book movie adaptation, in the sense that it just feels like a comic crossover.
Oh, one plot hole I didn't read above: Why the fuck didn't they get Captain Marvel for the time traveling thingy? I mean, Rhodey without an armor is just some guy. I don't care if you need to wait for two months, shouldn't it be obvious to get the fucking Superman-like girl for a critical mission like this?
Regarding Gamora, I didn't really understand what happened with her: When Thor boards the Guardian's ship, Quill is searching for her on the computer and not finding her, isn't he?
Is this enough? Okay, let's go.
I don't have much to say. I just loved it. There were a couple shaky spots, and I think the "epilogues" will feel long on a second viewing. But oh God, I cried, I was on the edge of my seat, I wanted to clap or shout several times during the movie. It's the perfect comic-book movie adaptation, in the sense that it just feels like a comic crossover.
Oh, one plot hole I didn't read above: Why the fuck didn't they get Captain Marvel for the time traveling thingy? I mean, Rhodey without an armor is just some guy. I don't care if you need to wait for two months, shouldn't it be obvious to get the fucking Superman-like girl for a critical mission like this?
No, what she said (as I recall) is that the infinity stones, together, kept the timeline stable. If you take one out, you allow time to branch, but if all six are present, there is only a single timeline. According to this, there are no additional timelines at the end of the movie. I also thought about how Peggy's husband must have been Steve then, but it's a bit weird that no one recognized him (Sharon Carter must've met old Steve, right?).The Ancient One talked about it in regards to the time stone, but I think that must apply to any major disruption. So, that means that the events of the movie likely spurred 2 new timelines, one in which Loki escapes after New York, and one in which Thanos suddenly disappears from the universe. The implies that Cap was able to lay low to stay in the original timeline. I wonder if that means that Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.
Regarding Gamora, I didn't really understand what happened with her: When Thor boards the Guardian's ship, Quill is searching for her on the computer and not finding her, isn't he?
#10
tegid
tegid
And the nod to the elevator fight scene in Winter Soldier! These nods were a lot of fun (and sweet, in an "end of an era" movie like this one)I also thought the parts where they included stuff from the older movies from different angles was pretty amazing. Watching Star Lord dancing and singing without the background music was hysterical. And the Hulk hulking out during the Battle of New York. Perfect.
#11
Celt Z
Celt Z
Mr. Z and I were talking about this one earlier:
Also Mr. Z: "You always wanted me to have the physique of Thor. You got your wish!"
If Steve went back in time to return the stones, what did he do with the Soul Stone? Did he give it back to Red Skull? THAT must have been an awkward conversation.
Also Mr. Z: "You always wanted me to have the physique of Thor. You got your wish!"
#12
Dei
Dei
I agree, the girl power part was dumb AF. Captain Marvel does not need help from plebs.
I think I just don't like Avengers movies for the most part. I found this movie to be extremely meh, but at least I didn't feel 3 hours passing.
I had to google who that kid was at the end, apparently it was the kid Tony met in Iron Man 3.
Also, please dear God, have Chris Hemsworth sign on to join Guardians of the Galaxy.
I think I just don't like Avengers movies for the most part. I found this movie to be extremely meh, but at least I didn't feel 3 hours passing.
I had to google who that kid was at the end, apparently it was the kid Tony met in Iron Man 3.
Also, please dear God, have Chris Hemsworth sign on to join Guardians of the Galaxy.
#13
chris
chris
Watched it last night. Great movie. My nitpicks are basically everything Dave already pointed out. Nice closure for some the characters. Even though I wished everybody get an ending like Steve.
Regarding Gamora, I didn't really understand what happened with her: When Thor boards the Guardian's ship, Quill is searching for her on the computer and not finding her, isn't he?
I guess she left after the fight, since she is from a point of time before joining the Guardians she doesn't have any emotional connection to them.
If Steve went back in time to return the stones, what did he do with the Soul Stone? Did he give it back to Red Skull? THAT must have been an awkward conversation.
or the Ether stone? Did he went to Asgard and inject it back into Jane Foster?
so anybody else think the 5 year skip could actually lead to horrible consequences? All the survivors are 5 years older but the vanished haven't aged or have any memory what happened. What about the people who moved on? Maybe dating or remarried? We see that the people reappear where they vanished. What about those who vanished on planes?
#14
Dei
Dei
You need some handwaving, because logistically the world would be fucked without it.Watched it last night. Great movie. My nitpicks are basically everything Dave already pointed out. Nice closure for some the characters. Even though I wished everybody get an ending like Steve.
I guess she left after the fight, since she is from a point of time before joining the Guardians she doesn't have any emotional connection to them.
or the Ether stone? Did he went to Asgard and inject it back into Jane Foster?
so anybody else think the 5 year skip could actually lead to horrible consequences? All the survivors are 5 years older but the vanished haven't aged or have any memory what happened. What about the people who moved on? Maybe dating or remarried? We see that the people reappear where they vanished. What about those who vanished on planes?
#15
Frank
Frank
I said this in the other thread, I'll say it here, it's hilariously cruel to put Chris Pratt next to Chris Hemsworth and have him try to be cool.
#16
Celt Z
Celt Z
Ham-fisted, yes, but I would rather have this kind of 2-second fan-service than any amount of the usual Joss Whedon gratuitous boobs-and-butts, damseling or shrewing. It was like a dream splash page, even though action-wise it was better executed in Infinity War (Okoye/Widow/SWitch/Proxima).I agree, the girl power part was dumb AF. Captain Marvel does not need help from plebs.
#17
Dei
Dei
They just did it very wrong, and I get why they did it, but it was terrible. They could have done it before Captain Marvel showed up and had her take the last handoff when she came in blazing from blowing up the ship and it would have worked 1000x better. (Or she could have shown up sooner instead of being Deus ex Carol)Ham-fisted, yes, but I would rather have this kind of 2-second fan-service than any amount of the usual Joss Whedon gratuitous boobs-and-butts, damseling or shrewing. It was like a dream splash page, even though action-wise it was better executed in Infinity War (Okoye/Widow/SWitch/Proxima).
#18
Adam
Adam
I'll admit to thinking at the beginning of that scene, "They aren't going to do a women only shot are they?", and well, there it was and it was better than I had expected. Ham-fisted would have been someone saying "girls are here! girls rule! WOOOOO". But instead we got what are essentially the strongest hitters in the MCU deck as the vanguard to advancing troops. No leadup, no discussion, just these characters in this place at this time doing a team job. Even my corrupted masculine heart couldn't help but be a little impressed by this decision. I can't help but wonder if my young niece will be as equally marvelled by our women heroes in this movie.
#19
Dave
Dave
This thread is for talking freely about the movie until about a month after release or whenever spoilers are so ubiquitous that hiding them no longer matters.I guess she left after the fight, since she is from a point of time before joining the Guardians she doesn't have any emotional connection to them.
#20
Dave
First, people who died because they were killed and not snapped are NOT coming back. So Vision isn't, nor is anyone who was riding in a car that crashed because the driver went away, or a passenger on a plane that went down, or an infant died because their caregivers are gone, etc. But they alluded to the fact that world governments are all bonkers, which is what this is about.
When you take out half the population you are creating a massive amount of power vacuums. Governments that were dictatorships are now leaderless. Governments who are more democratic have new leaders based (hopefully) on the chain of command. But the years after the Snap would be bloody and painful. And assuming that the wars have wound down in 5 years - not a guarantee - then the reversal of the Snap would cause all of the snapped to come back. To them no time has passed and because of the line from Spider-Man they are fully aware of what had transpired!! They KNOW that they were gone. All of their friends, family, lovers, etc are half a decade older. So while people are all back, the next few years are going to be filled with bloodshed and tears and not a few suicides.
In a lot of cases it would have been better if the Snap had stayed.
Dave
So something my son and I talked about after the movie and that's the absolute strife that this victory cost throughout the universe.So anybody else think the 5 year skip could actually lead to horrible consequences? All the survivors are 5 years older but the vanished haven't aged or have any memory what happened. What about the people who moved on? Maybe dating or remarried? We see that the people reappear where they vanished. What about those who vanished on planes?
First, people who died because they were killed and not snapped are NOT coming back. So Vision isn't, nor is anyone who was riding in a car that crashed because the driver went away, or a passenger on a plane that went down, or an infant died because their caregivers are gone, etc. But they alluded to the fact that world governments are all bonkers, which is what this is about.
When you take out half the population you are creating a massive amount of power vacuums. Governments that were dictatorships are now leaderless. Governments who are more democratic have new leaders based (hopefully) on the chain of command. But the years after the Snap would be bloody and painful. And assuming that the wars have wound down in 5 years - not a guarantee - then the reversal of the Snap would cause all of the snapped to come back. To them no time has passed and because of the line from Spider-Man they are fully aware of what had transpired!! They KNOW that they were gone. All of their friends, family, lovers, etc are half a decade older. So while people are all back, the next few years are going to be filled with bloodshed and tears and not a few suicides.
In a lot of cases it would have been better if the Snap had stayed.
#21
Cog
Cog
How did old Steve Rogers got there? He went to another timeline.
#22
Dave
He had all the coordinates and Pym particles he needed so he could have gone anywhen he needed.
Dave
Presumably the fixed the timeline by taking the stones back and then just never came back, living his life out with a wife & kids.How did old Steve Rogers got there? He went to another timeline.
He had all the coordinates and Pym particles he needed so he could have gone anywhen he needed.
#23
Cog
Cog
The timeline was unfixable. Thanos is dead in the past.
#24
Dave
Dave
No, Thanos is only dead AFTER the snap. Cap had to put all the stones back so Thanos could get them, do the Snap, etc.
Now....Having said all of that, since Thanos accessed Nebula's database and can forward into the future, wouldn't that mean that there could be no Snap?
Look, it's a time travel movie. When they stick to the rules it makes sense but they absolutely did not stick to the rules. So...
Now....Having said all of that, since Thanos accessed Nebula's database and can forward into the future, wouldn't that mean that there could be no Snap?
Look, it's a time travel movie. When they stick to the rules it makes sense but they absolutely did not stick to the rules. So...
#25
Dei
Dei
Guys, in all seriousness, don't try to make sense of the time travel. It's a fucking mess.
#26
Cog
Cog
They could had captain return as an old man. That would not break their own rules.No, Thanos is only dead AFTER the snap. Cap had to put all the stones back so Thanos could get them, do the Snap, etc.
Now....Having said all of that, since Thanos accessed Nebula's database and can forward into the future, wouldn't that mean that there could be no Snap?
Look, it's a time travel movie. When they stick to the rules it makes sense but they absolutely did not stick to the rules. So...
#27
Dei
Dei
It was pretty ham fisted. My daughter and I basically just made fun of it afterwards. If they had backed up *any other character* it might have been ok, but Captain Marvel is well beyond the power level of those other characters (except maybe Scarlet Witch) and they didn't actually help her at all.I'll admit to thinking at the beginning of that scene, "They aren't going to do a women only shot are they?", and well, there it was and it was better than I had expected. Ham-fisted would have been someone saying "girls are here! girls rule! WOOOOO". But instead we got what are essentially the strongest hitters in the MCU deck as the vanguard to advancing troops. No leadup, no discussion, just these characters in this place at this time doing a team job. Even my corrupted masculine heart couldn't help but be a little impressed by this decision. I can't help but wonder if my young niece will be as equally marvelled by our women heroes in this movie.
#28
Dave
Dave
That's my point as well. As you said, had those others started and then Captain Marvel JOINED them it would have been a much, MUCH stronger moment.It was pretty ham fisted. My daughter and I basically just made fun of it afterwards. If they had backed up *any other character* it might have been ok, but Captain Marvel is well beyond the power level of those other characters (except maybe Scarlet Witch) and they didn't actually help her at all.
#29
Celt Z
Celt Z
- A lot of people are bitching about Black Widow's death but I really thought it fit. Frankly it could have been either her or Clint but her death seemed to be the better option. Clint had lost so much with his family but if they won he would get it all back. Natasha would still be technically alone even if everyone came back. Her sacrifice was as much for Clint as it was for her to feel redemption about what she had been in the past. And for Clint to lose his family and then his best friend makes it even more poignant.
- I'm more bothered that both Nat and Clint seemed blind-sided by the sacrifice. Isn't it a dick move of Tony and Nebula not to mention it? They knew who was going to Vormir, this should have been part of the discussion as they were making up the teams.
-
Ever since they decided to make "Asgardians of the Galaxy" (which, of course they actually said in a massive fan service bid)
- It is also a currently-running comic title featuring some of the characters from the movie, so a little fan-service, or a little product placement?
#30
Dave
Dave
Tony & Nebula only knew that Gamorra was dead, not that there was a sacrifice.
#31
Dei
Dei
I think Nebula knew why. I actually kind of expected her to go to Vormir so I was surprised when she didn't.Tony & Nebula only knew that Gamorra was dead, not that there was a sacrifice.
#32
klew
klew
Steve got to go back and live a full life in his familiar time period, no such luck for Bucky.
#33
Celt Z
Celt Z
I need to rewatch IW, I could have sworn Thanos explaining how he got the Soul Stone is what set Quill off. But Nebula had to know because she told past-Gamora what happend to her (or was about to. I assume by their friendship she did.) So at the very least, Nebula knew, but then again, the only 2 Avengers she remotely cared about at that point were Rocket and Tony, so maybe she just didn't give a damn.Tony & Nebula only knew that Gamorra was dead, not that there was a sacrifice.
#34
bhamv3
bhamv3
Character development:
![mok5g40zptu21[1].jpg](https://halforums.com/attachments/mok5g40zptu21-1-jpg.30889/)
#35
Dei
Dei
#36
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
I wonder what the 4 hpur cut looked like.
Is that enough?
I don't think I have any complaints except time travel shenanigans, which trying to figure out is pointless, and the guy next to me who had zero faith in his kid's intelligence and kept explaining stuff even though the stuff the kid said made it clear she didn't need any help. Julie and I must have shushed him a dozen times combined. Clint and Natasha on Vormir is a good time for a bathroom break.
Loved seeing Professor Hulk.
Loved the zaniness of time traveling to past movies.
I was in tears as Cap went one-on-one with Thanos. Getting the hammer, the lightning, just all of it. I thought he was about to die, and then "on your left." That was my happy place.
And what a finale. Even the girl power scene; Julie and I were giddy.
I'm wondering how much of the announcements we've heard are bullshit. RDJ saying he'd be making cameos, the Black Widow movie nobody wanted, WandaVision? And Sam is now Captain America. I guess we'll see.
Is that enough?
I don't think I have any complaints except time travel shenanigans, which trying to figure out is pointless, and the guy next to me who had zero faith in his kid's intelligence and kept explaining stuff even though the stuff the kid said made it clear she didn't need any help. Julie and I must have shushed him a dozen times combined. Clint and Natasha on Vormir is a good time for a bathroom break.
Loved seeing Professor Hulk.
Loved the zaniness of time traveling to past movies.
I was in tears as Cap went one-on-one with Thanos. Getting the hammer, the lightning, just all of it. I thought he was about to die, and then "on your left." That was my happy place.
And what a finale. Even the girl power scene; Julie and I were giddy.
I'm wondering how much of the announcements we've heard are bullshit. RDJ saying he'd be making cameos, the Black Widow movie nobody wanted, WandaVision? And Sam is now Captain America. I guess we'll see.
#37
Dave
Dave
I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
#38
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Aaaaaaahhhhhh the end credit!!!!!
#39
Hailey Knight
We stayed just to soak it all in. I still remember the day I saw Incredible Hulk and Iron Man as a double feature in 2008. I was 22 and that feels like forever ago; I can't imagine how Endgame feels for kids who've grown up with this.
Hailey Knight
In the comics he kept using his Falcon stuff, too.I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
It was funny that when the credits ended and the staff said there was no end credits scene, people were still waiting as we left like they just couldn't believe it. Marvel got us trained.Aaaaaaahhhhhh the end credit!!!!!
We stayed just to soak it all in. I still remember the day I saw Incredible Hulk and Iron Man as a double feature in 2008. I was 22 and that feels like forever ago; I can't imagine how Endgame feels for kids who've grown up with this.
#40
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
It's not a scene, it's a reveal that the next story arc is Doomworld!
#41
Adam
Adam
Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off, what is he?I'm curious about Sam as Cap, honestly. He's just a dude in a suit. As Cap he'd lose all of his technological edges and just be a cosplayer who can fight. No super strength. Nothing.
#42
Celt Z
Celt Z
Sexy!
#43
Sparhawk
Sparhawk
It was Mantis saying what she was getting from Thanos as she tried to shut him down.I need to rewatch IW, I could have sworn Thanos explaining how he got the Soul Stone is what set Quill off. But Nebula had to know because she told past-Gamora what happend to her (or was about to. I assume by their friendship she did.) So at the very least, Nebula knew, but then again, the only 2 Avengers she remotely cared about at that point were Rocket and Tony, so maybe she just didn't give a damn.
#44
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Ok, end credits by hobo;
No movie scene, just after all the credits are done, you hear the sound of a hammer hitting metal.
Now all the happy people think it's Tony making his armour in the cave and closes the saga. I say no, the entire movie was closure.
But they are almost correct, it's not Tony building armour, it's Victor von Doom making his armour.
Why? Well the studio owns the rights to him now.
Two, in the mind of Victor, the Avengers fucked up on a massive scale, it would be clear to him that the only to keep the Earth safe is if he conquers it.
Three, they just finished a massive arc where the threat is aliens. So the next the next arc will not be from space, so Earth based.
Four, the running theme for the first arc was Tony saves the day, it's classic storytelling to flip the coin. Doom makes a great choice for that, he's Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther as a single villain.
Five, they fix Doom. Doom doesn't act like a buffoon like the FF movies, he works in the background. The mastermind who only truly gets revealed in the big movie to end the arc.
No movie scene, just after all the credits are done, you hear the sound of a hammer hitting metal.
Now all the happy people think it's Tony making his armour in the cave and closes the saga. I say no, the entire movie was closure.
But they are almost correct, it's not Tony building armour, it's Victor von Doom making his armour.
Why? Well the studio owns the rights to him now.
Two, in the mind of Victor, the Avengers fucked up on a massive scale, it would be clear to him that the only to keep the Earth safe is if he conquers it.
Three, they just finished a massive arc where the threat is aliens. So the next the next arc will not be from space, so Earth based.
Four, the running theme for the first arc was Tony saves the day, it's classic storytelling to flip the coin. Doom makes a great choice for that, he's Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther as a single villain.
Five, they fix Doom. Doom doesn't act like a buffoon like the FF movies, he works in the background. The mastermind who only truly gets revealed in the big movie to end the arc.
#45
bhamv3
bhamv3
From the ruins of Sokovia, a young, charismatic, and brilliant scientist rises up to lead the people. He genuinely has the nation and the people's best interests at heart, so even though he's a bit of an egomaniac and has something of a mean streak, everyone in Sokovia still rallies behind him and follows him willingly, because he's actually producing tangible results to make everything better. That's why no one objects when he announces that Sokovia will be renamed Latveria, to make a clean break from the tragedies of the past.
#46
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
And the Black Widow movie is a prequel, perhaps focusing on all her work in Eastern Europe, a perfect chance to highlight the setting.
#47
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Next year's Marvel slate being kind of weak-sounding and Julie and I planning to watch Far From Home ... at home ... I might just take a break from the MCU until 2021. That there was no end credits scene feels fitting. I left the theater not looking ahead to what's next, but completely satisfied.
#48
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I'll be honest, I didn't notice the girl power scene. I just watched the movie and then started reading this thread, and couldn't figure out what the girl power scene was until someone started it was Captain Marvel's backup. Up until then it hadn't occurred to me that it was all the female characters, I just thought it was another glory pose moment to show everyone that came back.
#49
Far
I cried so many times. SO MANY TIMES.
I'm almost tearing up typing them all out.
There is timetravel fuckery that is annoying and you just have to either accept or not but I was so happy with the way this all played out.
Far
I called that it was gonna open with that scene as soon as they showed part of it in the trailers.
- That beginning. Holy shit. I mean, we all figured that's why Clint became the Ronan, but to open the movie like that. Holy fuckballs.
I cried so many times. SO MANY TIMES.
- Tony speaking with Howard started it for me.
- Nat's death.
- Rocket saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe!"
- When everyone that got snapped returned and when Peter and Tony reunite.
- Tony's rest.
- The hologram message.
- Morgan saying cheeseburgers when asked what she was hungry for by Happy.
- Professor Hulk saying he tried to snap Nat back and that he misses her, so much.
- Old Steve and him passing the shield to Sam.
- Steve and Peggy finally getting their dance.
I'm almost tearing up typing them all out.
There is timetravel fuckery that is annoying and you just have to either accept or not but I was so happy with the way this all played out.
#50
@Li3n
In the comics, you can't really change your own past, even if you can change your reality's past (unless you have a Doomlock), it just makes it no longer your reality, and you and now from an alternate reality future, like Cable, Rachel Summers, Bishop etc.
It's also why AoA, DoFP, Cable's Future etc all still exist as separate realities, even though they where all futures/alternate presents of 616 (the main continuity) originally.
So, if they keep to the comics logic, then Tesseract-Loki and No-Thanos are new timelines... although, they should replace the original MCU universe, and what we saw in Endgame should have become an alternate reality, with the T-Loki timeline becoming the proper Earth-199999 (which is the official designation for the MCU)...
@Li3n
To me is sounded just like regular Marvel comics timeline splitting, and the reason taking the time stone created a divergent timeline that was bad was because then Strange couldn't defeat Dormammu.No, what she said (as I recall) is that the infinity stones, together, kept the timeline stable. If you take one out, you allow time to branch, but if all six are present, there is only a single timeline. According to this, there are no additional timelines at the end of the movie.
In the comics, you can't really change your own past, even if you can change your reality's past (unless you have a Doomlock), it just makes it no longer your reality, and you and now from an alternate reality future, like Cable, Rachel Summers, Bishop etc.
It's also why AoA, DoFP, Cable's Future etc all still exist as separate realities, even though they where all futures/alternate presents of 616 (the main continuity) originally.
So, if they keep to the comics logic, then Tesseract-Loki and No-Thanos are new timelines... although, they should replace the original MCU universe, and what we saw in Endgame should have become an alternate reality, with the T-Loki timeline becoming the proper Earth-199999 (which is the official designation for the MCU)...
#51
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
Right, so I'll just free-write rant for a bit, in case we still need to do that. But I just got back from seeing it with my nieces.
Ho. Lee. Shit. Despite criticisms, they really did stick the landing. They stuck the HELL out of that landing.
(Note: I ranted about this a LOT more than I intended. Sorry, there's lots I wanted to cover.)
Okay, quick things I loved:
-That ballsy opening. Given that they used technology before to find the Tesseract in Avengers (it emitted gamma radiation, as noted in this as well), it made sense how they could track him down. Combine it with alien tech and combined genius of Tony, Rocket, and Bruce, and it makes sense. But WOW, I didn't think they'd jump right to Thanos right off the bat. A HELL of an opening.
-Forced or not, I loved the "girl power" and I hope it means we get an A-Force movie. Watching it with my niece helped, who cheered right alongside me. I get that Captain Marvel is over-powered, but you could say the same of Thor, who cleaned out armies no problem in Infinity War and felt kind of de-powered here. Maybe it was the beer gut. But it was still an awesome moment.
-All the little callbacks. "On your left," was a really great surprise.
-ANT-MAN PUNCHING A SPACE WHALE.
-I was in tears watching everyone come out of the portals. I did NOT expect so many armies, but it made sense. Sorcerers, Asgardians, Wakandans. Probably one or two I missed, like some people from space?
-REALLY cool, quick shot with all the sorcerers creating shields around the battlefield.
-Nat & Clint's very emotional fight because it could have EASILY been either one of them. I was on the edge of my seat, wondering which one could go.
(Sidenote on that: No one knew how Gamorra died. They just knew Thanos got the Soul Stone and she didn't come back with him. Even Thanos and Gamorra were surprised to hear how the Soul Stone could be retrieved. Thanos didn't explain anything aside from "He mourns" and "I had to." So they had no clue that they were sending Nat or Clint off to die.)
-The time travel was kind of a highlight reel or clip episode from a TV show. But it worked because each timeline was basically for the Big Three (Thor, Steve, Tony), both as a final send-off for each and gave them character development. Plus, the elevator scene was perfect. From what I could tell, they had ALL the same actors who played the thugs in Winter Soldier's scene.
-Times I cheered: Cap using the hammer (and like a pro!) and "Avengers Assemble!"
-I loved how everyone at the funeral was grouped by their respective franchise. That was a really nice touch. (Didn't know who the kid was until I looked it up: apparently the kid Tony was with for part of Iron Man 3)
Things I liked, but kinda iffy on:
-Thor letting himself go. I just saw an interview where he wanted Thor to return to the more comedic side like in Ragnarok. And we got that. I think they leaned a little too hard on the comedy, but it makes sense for his character. We've seen he doesn't deal well with things that don't go his way. So, living with the guilt that, even though he vanquished Thanos, it wouldn't bring anyone back? That he blamed himself for even letting Thanos win in the first place? It makes sense.
-Professor Hulk. I agree with @Dave that it came out of nowhere. But it was also 5 years of development. Personally, if I'd written his part there, I would've maybe shown him having sessions with Doc Sampson or something, as a nice return for a character from that solo movie. Plus, it was Uncanny Valley City watching Ruffalo acting and voice coming from Hulk. Especially the face. Still, he was a great addition to everything, with a lot of comedy. That said, with Thor now leaning more on comedy, he'll fit right in Asgardians of the Galaxy Vol 3. Plus, he has Stormbreaker. Who's to say they don't meet Beta Ray Bill? (who wields it in the comics)
- I think the time travel stuff, while fun, ran a little too long. It felt very Back to the Future 2 (which, to be fair, was on the sleeve blatant about that), with a lot of sneaking around, watching stuff play out while hiding, and a bunch of jokes. There's questions on how it might mess up the timeline (Cap & Peggy, Loki), but as with all time travel, it's best not to think about it too much and just enjoy the ride.
-Were Nebula and War Machine a couple? It seemed like they grew close, but it's kind of vague.
-Falcon getting the shield. I'm all for it, but I think it would've been better suited to Bucky, as a final cap-off to his and Steve's story. (Heh, Cap-Off)
-Nat sacrificing herself was great and made sense, but man, she really got the short end of the mourning stick compared to Tony. Which, I get. RDJ started it all and we all knew he probably wasn't making it out alive in either Infinity War or this. But I kinda wish they had a duel funeral for them both or something.
Criticisms
-No Vision. I get that he was a pre-dusting death and they stuck to those (with some workarounds), it didn't feel right he wasn't there at the end. I'd hoped they did it by explaining he was MOSTLY separated from the Mind Stone by the time he joined the fray in Infinity War, and it was a matter of piecing him together. But with everything going on, that would've needed more running time in an already long movie. But I thought there were designs or set photos of him in an all-white look similar to how he's looked in the comics at one point or another. I was just disappointed he wasn't there for the end.
-I wasn't crazy about Stan Lee's cameo in this. I thought maybe he could've been among the funeral. No need to explain it. Just let him be there. But I know they filmed a lot of cameos far in advance. I think his last one is Spider-Man: Far From Home.
-This is kind of my big takeaway, but...
This felt like such a satisfying conclusion to the past 10 years and 20-some movies that...I'm not sure I really feel like seeing anything past this. Sure, they set things up for the future and hinted at others, but I'm honestly not sure if anything will ever top this build up and finale. I'm not sure if I'm game for another 20 movies culminating in another big, operatic finale. Not because it wouldn't be awesome, but I don't think they can accomplish the same trick twice (maybe me in 2029 will think otherwise). There's so many emotions that I don't think they could evoke a second time.
I'm not saying I won't see future movies, but I feel a lot less inclined to see them, now. On the one hand, I wish they'd set up some kind of tease at the end of this (ala Thanos in the first Avengers), but on the other hand, it wouldn't have felt like a definitive conclusion then. Of anything from this, I'm probably most looking forward to Guardians 3. The solo movies should still be fun, but I just don't see what they could build up to if they use a similar formula for the next phases. My first thought is all the time-travel catches the attention of Kang.
But yeah, I don't know. I felt so definitively satisfied by this that I don't think the magic will ever be recreated. Even though I have a feeling they'll try.
Ho. Lee. Shit. Despite criticisms, they really did stick the landing. They stuck the HELL out of that landing.
(Note: I ranted about this a LOT more than I intended. Sorry, there's lots I wanted to cover.)
Okay, quick things I loved:
-That ballsy opening. Given that they used technology before to find the Tesseract in Avengers (it emitted gamma radiation, as noted in this as well), it made sense how they could track him down. Combine it with alien tech and combined genius of Tony, Rocket, and Bruce, and it makes sense. But WOW, I didn't think they'd jump right to Thanos right off the bat. A HELL of an opening.
-Forced or not, I loved the "girl power" and I hope it means we get an A-Force movie. Watching it with my niece helped, who cheered right alongside me. I get that Captain Marvel is over-powered, but you could say the same of Thor, who cleaned out armies no problem in Infinity War and felt kind of de-powered here. Maybe it was the beer gut. But it was still an awesome moment.
-All the little callbacks. "On your left," was a really great surprise.
-ANT-MAN PUNCHING A SPACE WHALE.
-I was in tears watching everyone come out of the portals. I did NOT expect so many armies, but it made sense. Sorcerers, Asgardians, Wakandans. Probably one or two I missed, like some people from space?
-REALLY cool, quick shot with all the sorcerers creating shields around the battlefield.
-Nat & Clint's very emotional fight because it could have EASILY been either one of them. I was on the edge of my seat, wondering which one could go.
(Sidenote on that: No one knew how Gamorra died. They just knew Thanos got the Soul Stone and she didn't come back with him. Even Thanos and Gamorra were surprised to hear how the Soul Stone could be retrieved. Thanos didn't explain anything aside from "He mourns" and "I had to." So they had no clue that they were sending Nat or Clint off to die.)
-The time travel was kind of a highlight reel or clip episode from a TV show. But it worked because each timeline was basically for the Big Three (Thor, Steve, Tony), both as a final send-off for each and gave them character development. Plus, the elevator scene was perfect. From what I could tell, they had ALL the same actors who played the thugs in Winter Soldier's scene.
-Times I cheered: Cap using the hammer (and like a pro!) and "Avengers Assemble!"
-I loved how everyone at the funeral was grouped by their respective franchise. That was a really nice touch. (Didn't know who the kid was until I looked it up: apparently the kid Tony was with for part of Iron Man 3)
Things I liked, but kinda iffy on:
-Thor letting himself go. I just saw an interview where he wanted Thor to return to the more comedic side like in Ragnarok. And we got that. I think they leaned a little too hard on the comedy, but it makes sense for his character. We've seen he doesn't deal well with things that don't go his way. So, living with the guilt that, even though he vanquished Thanos, it wouldn't bring anyone back? That he blamed himself for even letting Thanos win in the first place? It makes sense.
-Professor Hulk. I agree with @Dave that it came out of nowhere. But it was also 5 years of development. Personally, if I'd written his part there, I would've maybe shown him having sessions with Doc Sampson or something, as a nice return for a character from that solo movie. Plus, it was Uncanny Valley City watching Ruffalo acting and voice coming from Hulk. Especially the face. Still, he was a great addition to everything, with a lot of comedy. That said, with Thor now leaning more on comedy, he'll fit right in Asgardians of the Galaxy Vol 3. Plus, he has Stormbreaker. Who's to say they don't meet Beta Ray Bill? (who wields it in the comics)
- I think the time travel stuff, while fun, ran a little too long. It felt very Back to the Future 2 (which, to be fair, was on the sleeve blatant about that), with a lot of sneaking around, watching stuff play out while hiding, and a bunch of jokes. There's questions on how it might mess up the timeline (Cap & Peggy, Loki), but as with all time travel, it's best not to think about it too much and just enjoy the ride.
-Were Nebula and War Machine a couple? It seemed like they grew close, but it's kind of vague.
-Falcon getting the shield. I'm all for it, but I think it would've been better suited to Bucky, as a final cap-off to his and Steve's story. (Heh, Cap-Off)
-Nat sacrificing herself was great and made sense, but man, she really got the short end of the mourning stick compared to Tony. Which, I get. RDJ started it all and we all knew he probably wasn't making it out alive in either Infinity War or this. But I kinda wish they had a duel funeral for them both or something.
Criticisms
-No Vision. I get that he was a pre-dusting death and they stuck to those (with some workarounds), it didn't feel right he wasn't there at the end. I'd hoped they did it by explaining he was MOSTLY separated from the Mind Stone by the time he joined the fray in Infinity War, and it was a matter of piecing him together. But with everything going on, that would've needed more running time in an already long movie. But I thought there were designs or set photos of him in an all-white look similar to how he's looked in the comics at one point or another. I was just disappointed he wasn't there for the end.
-I wasn't crazy about Stan Lee's cameo in this. I thought maybe he could've been among the funeral. No need to explain it. Just let him be there. But I know they filmed a lot of cameos far in advance. I think his last one is Spider-Man: Far From Home.
-This is kind of my big takeaway, but...
This felt like such a satisfying conclusion to the past 10 years and 20-some movies that...I'm not sure I really feel like seeing anything past this. Sure, they set things up for the future and hinted at others, but I'm honestly not sure if anything will ever top this build up and finale. I'm not sure if I'm game for another 20 movies culminating in another big, operatic finale. Not because it wouldn't be awesome, but I don't think they can accomplish the same trick twice (maybe me in 2029 will think otherwise). There's so many emotions that I don't think they could evoke a second time.
I'm not saying I won't see future movies, but I feel a lot less inclined to see them, now. On the one hand, I wish they'd set up some kind of tease at the end of this (ala Thanos in the first Avengers), but on the other hand, it wouldn't have felt like a definitive conclusion then. Of anything from this, I'm probably most looking forward to Guardians 3. The solo movies should still be fun, but I just don't see what they could build up to if they use a similar formula for the next phases. My first thought is all the time-travel catches the attention of Kang.
But yeah, I don't know. I felt so definitively satisfied by this that I don't think the magic will ever be recreated. Even though I have a feeling they'll try.
#52
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
So many callbacks being pointed out online that I missed (and I caught a lot), it's no wonder people are seeing this two or three times.
The team putting fists in a circle mirrored Tony's heart from the first Iron Man.
The cheeseburger bit with Morgan calling back to Tony wanting a cheeseburger when he gets back in the first Iron Man.
Little nods too, like the characters who play hot potato with the Gauntlet will be those carrying the torch of the MCU in future movies. I appreciated Hulk holding up the building reference.
So many satisfying moments. I'm glad there was no credits scene.
The team putting fists in a circle mirrored Tony's heart from the first Iron Man.
The cheeseburger bit with Morgan calling back to Tony wanting a cheeseburger when he gets back in the first Iron Man.
Little nods too, like the characters who play hot potato with the Gauntlet will be those carrying the torch of the MCU in future movies. I appreciated Hulk holding up the building reference.
So many satisfying moments. I'm glad there was no credits scene.
#53
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Oh, and the music.
I know the score hasn't always been the MCU's strong suit. Good soundtracks, but many characters don't have set themes, and a lot of action-y bits get so generic, it's hard to tell what belongs to who. Much as I didn't care for Age of Ultron, I'm grateful to Danny Elfman for using Alan Silvestri's Avengers theme, as that solidified it being the Avengers theme. He cares about that stuff, as he's said on record and has shown even in crummy films like Justice League.
The music was another big callback venture though. Alan Silvestri would of course utilize his Avengers theme, but I appreciated little things like a bit of music from Winter Soldier for Steve, a bit of Captain Marvel for Carol. I haven't compared for myself, but when Thanos's forces are turning to dust, it's apparently the same music as when Tony carries the nuke through the portal in the first Avengers, because he's making the ultimate sacrifice again.
And then there's the music for the scene when the portals open:
I appreciate that it begins not as triumphant, but reassuring. "Yes, they're back. No, they're ALL back." And we get to see not just that the cavalary's here, but how MUCH cavalry there is, and all their individual quirks like the sorcerers' discs or the Wakandans' chants, and the music builds to triumphant for when everyone's present, facing Thanos's forces. And then the Avengers theme kicks in.
Absolutely beautiful work.
Hell, I might go again after all.
I know the score hasn't always been the MCU's strong suit. Good soundtracks, but many characters don't have set themes, and a lot of action-y bits get so generic, it's hard to tell what belongs to who. Much as I didn't care for Age of Ultron, I'm grateful to Danny Elfman for using Alan Silvestri's Avengers theme, as that solidified it being the Avengers theme. He cares about that stuff, as he's said on record and has shown even in crummy films like Justice League.
The music was another big callback venture though. Alan Silvestri would of course utilize his Avengers theme, but I appreciated little things like a bit of music from Winter Soldier for Steve, a bit of Captain Marvel for Carol. I haven't compared for myself, but when Thanos's forces are turning to dust, it's apparently the same music as when Tony carries the nuke through the portal in the first Avengers, because he's making the ultimate sacrifice again.
And then there's the music for the scene when the portals open:
I appreciate that it begins not as triumphant, but reassuring. "Yes, they're back. No, they're ALL back." And we get to see not just that the cavalary's here, but how MUCH cavalry there is, and all their individual quirks like the sorcerers' discs or the Wakandans' chants, and the music builds to triumphant for when everyone's present, facing Thanos's forces. And then the Avengers theme kicks in.
Absolutely beautiful work.
Hell, I might go again after all.
#54
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
Another totally random thought:
For Black Panther 2, I hope we don't get another giant battle involving Wakandan armies. We've seen them three times now. And they're great, but I'm all Wakanda armied out.
For Black Panther 2, I hope we don't get another giant battle involving Wakandan armies. We've seen them three times now. And they're great, but I'm all Wakanda armied out.
#55
Far
Far
I'm going again sometime this week, for sure.
#56
GasBandit
GasBandit
Saw it. Loved it. Yeah there were some issues, but I don't really think we could really realistically have expected any more for the capstone to the series. I love how it tied everything together.
#57
PatrThom
PatrThom
#58
Ravenpoe
You're out of your element.
Ravenpoe
STFU, Patrick...like a rug.
--Patrick
You're out of your element.
#59
GasBandit
GasBandit
Anti-spoiler buffer
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... alright, now the spoiler...
Did anybody have any ideas about the anvil forging noise during the marvel logo in the post-credits?
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Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
... alright, now the spoiler...
Did anybody have any ideas about the anvil forging noise during the marvel logo in the post-credits?
#60
BErt
BErt
Kinda wishing he called Rocket a marmot at some point now
#61
General Specific
General Specific
Edit: We still doing the spoiler buffer? I thought that was done away with. Oh well, here a bit of nonsense text for you:
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Saw it over the weekend, loved it. I do have some of the same concerns as other people.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Saw it over the weekend, loved it. I do have some of the same concerns as other people.
- Professor Hulk all the time was a bit weird. I was hoping that he would Hulk out a bit more at certain points (trying to hold up the building would have been a great spot).
- Where did War Machine get the replacement armor if he was stuck under the building and didn't get out until Ant-Man Giant-Manned them out? He just kinda showed up with the new armor already on and no shot of it flying to him or whatever.
- I totally fanboyed at Cap finally saying "Avengers Assemble!" and the Captain Thormerica bit. I even said "I knew it!" right before Thor did.
- I thought the girl-power moment was a bit forced. It was cool but forced.
- They went on & on about not changing the past and then at the end just wiped out Thanos and all of his forces.
- Doesn't that mean that Thanos disappears from the past and isn't around to collect the stones and cause all this to happen in the first place?
- Was Gamora still technically part of Thanos' forces and also got snapped?
- They killed past-Nebula, but present-Nebula was still around how exactly?
- There was some talk and I have seen some explanations online that the Infinity Stones, when they are all in the same timeline together, they keep a single timeline flowing.
- So, does that mean that when they are returned, they repaired the timeline to the standard MCU we have seen, including Thanos NOT coming to the future and performing the snap? I think this could have been explained a bit better.
- That would generally fix everything except after Thanos used the stones to destroy them, in the timeline going forward, there is nothing keeping branching timelines from forming. So, new heroes could have a different timeline to explain why there are no other heroes around (I'm looking at you, X-men franchise).
- What is now keeping Dormammu from coming for this dimension? Maybe that is what Dr. Strange 2 will be about, but that is basically a retread of the plot from the first movie and kinda lame.
- Tony's funeral seemed a little odd. I thought many of the people there looked like they had been poorly CGI'd into the scene. Dr. Strange/Buttercup Cumbersnatch looked especially thinner and lighter than he should have in the scene. Everyone else seemed a little out of place also. I understand it is hard to get that many actors all in one spot at the same time and they may have had to shoehorn a few in, but it was not done well.
- Also, had to look up the kid at the back as well before my spouse realized he was the kid from Iron Man 3.
- A personal thought on the hammer/anvil sound at the very end was that it was a call-back to Tony in the cave in Afghanistan. If they had meant it to be a teaser for something, then I think we would have gotten a scene or further explanation and not just an ambiguous sound.
#62
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Yes, scroll up. It's Victor von Doom making his armour.Anti-spoiler buffer
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Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
Cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga cantaloupe rutabaga
... alright, now the spoiler...
Did anybody have any ideas about the anvil forging noise during the marvel logo in the post-credits?
#63
GasBandit
GasBandit
#64
Gryfter
Gryfter
Saw it this weekend with my kids and for the most part loved it. Was one of the most comic booky of comic book movies.
That said.... blah blah blah blah.....
Was really disappointed in the fridging of Black Widow. It was a dumb rehash of the same dumb fridging decision with Gamora from IW without any of the emotional weight. They really should have had had Hawkeye walk up to Red Skull and say, "I already lost that which I love the most.... my family, and the Soul Stone should've appeared for him. Sure it would've been a little bit of a copout but I would've preferred that to what we got.
Overall though it didn't detract from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
That said.... blah blah blah blah.....
Was really disappointed in the fridging of Black Widow. It was a dumb rehash of the same dumb fridging decision with Gamora from IW without any of the emotional weight. They really should have had had Hawkeye walk up to Red Skull and say, "I already lost that which I love the most.... my family, and the Soul Stone should've appeared for him. Sure it would've been a little bit of a copout but I would've preferred that to what we got.
Overall though it didn't detract from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
#65
evilmike
That being said -- your idea with Hawkeye is really clever and I bet Jeremy Renner could have sold the heck out of that.
evilmike
I don't think Black Widow's death worked as well as Gamora's, but I wouldn't really consider either a "fridging". Both died because of choices they made and the audience saw. Both got significant character beats during their respective movies. (Gamora especially -- as I recall, she got more screen time in IW than any character save Thanos.)Was really disappointed in the fridging of Black Widow. It was a dumb rehash of the same dumb fridging decision with Gamora from IW without any of the emotional weight. They really should have had had Hawkeye walk up to Red Skull and say, "I already lost that which I love the most.... my family, and the Soul Stone should've appeared for him. Sure it would've been a little bit of a copout but I would've preferred that to what we got.
Overall though it didn't detract from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
That being said -- your idea with Hawkeye is really clever and I bet Jeremy Renner could have sold the heck out of that.
#66
GasBandit
GasBandit
Yeah, but I don't think it fit the nature of the requirement to retrieve the stone. Hawkeye had his family TAKEN from him, he did not CHOOSE to SACRIFICE them to gain the power of the stone.
#67
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Hoo boy, my young coworker is going to a special reserved showing tonight....arranged as a funeral for a friend.
#68
chris
chris
Something that bothered me since I saw the movie.
Who was the teenager standing alone during Tony's funeral?
Everybody was standing with their "family" except for him and I can't remember who he was. Is he the boy from Iron Man 3?
Who was the teenager standing alone during Tony's funeral?
Everybody was standing with their "family" except for him and I can't remember who he was. Is he the boy from Iron Man 3?
#69
GasBandit
GasBandit
Yeah, the kid from IM3Something that bothered me since I saw the movie.
Who was the teenager standing alone during Tony's funeral?
Everybody was standing with their "family" except for him and I can't remember who he was. Is he the boy from Iron Man 3?
#71
@Li3n
@Li3n
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Killing past Nebula and Thanos was explicitly said not to change anything, and would only create new alternate timelines, which is why they went with a time heist instead.
Of course, Tony not just wishing them back to their proper timeline with no memories and dusting them instead was more of an artistic choice then anything else. So unlilke the Loki-Tesseract thing, i don't think they'll follow up on the Thanos-less timeline.
I think you're still stuck on the BttF time travel paradigm.
- Doesn't that mean that Thanos disappears from the past and isn't around to collect the stones and cause all this to happen in the first place?
- They killed past-Nebula, but present-Nebula was still around how exactly?
Killing past Nebula and Thanos was explicitly said not to change anything, and would only create new alternate timelines, which is why they went with a time heist instead.
Of course, Tony not just wishing them back to their proper timeline with no memories and dusting them instead was more of an artistic choice then anything else. So unlilke the Loki-Tesseract thing, i don't think they'll follow up on the Thanos-less timeline.
#72
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
^that
If you remove page 33 of a book, it doesn't rewrite the remaining pages.
If you remove page 33 of a book, it doesn't rewrite the remaining pages.
#73
GasBandit
GasBandit
He King Crimsoned them. HE BLEW AWAY TIME!
#74
evilmike
evilmike
#75
figmentPez
figmentPez
Are we still doing the anti-spoiler prelude in each post? I'm confused.
Spoilers in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
Just kidding, I want to say that I'm sad because somehow I missed the Stan Lee cameo. Whoops, guess I have to watch the movie again!
So, do you think they cremated Tony for his funeral? Like, it would be kinda poetic, but also kinda awkward.
I reserve the right to change my mind later, but right now my favorite moment was Peter meeting Carol. "Hi Peter." He is going to be thinking about that moment for years.... or maybe I'm just a little infatuated with Brie Larson.
Spoilers in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
Just kidding, I want to say that I'm sad because somehow I missed the Stan Lee cameo. Whoops, guess I have to watch the movie again!
So, do you think they cremated Tony for his funeral? Like, it would be kinda poetic, but also kinda awkward.
I reserve the right to change my mind later, but right now my favorite moment was Peter meeting Carol. "Hi Peter." He is going to be thinking about that moment for years.... or maybe I'm just a little infatuated with Brie Larson.
#76
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
That was adorable and I hope they get to interact more in future movies.
#77
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Wow! What an amazing movie. Seriously my new favorite in the series. I couldn't believe the amount of throwbacks and cameos they had stuffed in there.
To keep things simple I am going to do a few random musings then go over the big thing, time travel.
Was so happy to see Mjolnir back! Even if only temporarily. It makes sense to me why they made Thor get so out of shape. He would have been a beast dual wielding his weapons if he was still in prime shape. The scenes with the parents and their kids kept murdering me. Clint losing his family, Cassie finally being able to see Scott again, Tony just trying to be a good dad, Morgan losing her dad, oh man my heart.
I can't believe they "Harry Kim'ed" Gamora, I was not expecting that. Speaking of that whole thing, how the fuck did Thanos fit his whole ship through the time machine considering it was supposed to use Pyrm Particles to shrink to quantum sizes? Did they steal Nebulas and figure out how to use it? I guess I missed that part?
Actually why where the Avengers even using ships? Thor supposedly has the power of the Bifrost now. Actually, wait, in Infinity War while they were on that circlular ship, Dr. Strange tells Tony to turn it around back to Earth, but he does not know how so they decide just to go to Titan. Now we know Dr. Strange can just sling ring across the universe. Why didn't you just do that!? Haha.
I was honestly surprised to see The Ravagers at the fight. Once I saw the Wakandans I quickly expected the Sorcerers and even the Asgardians since they now live on Earth, but the Ravagers felt out of the left field. (They even had Howard the Duck with them!) Seriously the amount of cameos was blowing my mind. They had at least one side character from pretty much every movie in some way shape or form.
Also, I don't know if Peter Parker has the best luck or the worst. Now that we know all the people came back, but lost five years, it's pretty much official that all of Peter's friends, including Ned, were dusted. On the one hand that's terrible, on the other though it's the only reason he is still on the same level as them. Could you imagine Peter coming back and finding out all his friends graduated years ago?
Speaking of the dusted, it pretty much confirmed that all the dusted people returned directly to the point they vanished, as Doctor Strange and the others were on Titan when they used to sling ring. This is going to be one hell of a bad day for anyone that was traveling on an airplane. At least they won't have long to contemplate what just happened.
Time travel in this movie was played very loose, but honestly I am curious. The Ancient One made it out that time was one long flowing line, and that by removing a stone it would make a "doomed timeline". Banner explained that putting the stone back right at the point it left would fix that, but they changed other drastic things in that timeline, like Loki escaping. Did those still twist off into other time threads? Or much like The Ancient Ones visualized time stream, would putting the stones back actually "rectify" the main timeline even with small changes?
Example, we saw at the end of the movie Steve stayed in the past to be with Peggy, but that event totally destroys her known history. You could say that they just agreed to keep it on the down low, and not involve themselves, but remember during Winter Soldier, Peggy was revealed to have Alzhimers. She wouldn't be able to keep up the ruse in front of the younger Steve once he was unfrozen if her memory was failing as bad as they showed. If it sort of finds ways of correcting itself, then it could be even with his changes, time turned out the same. Might explain why none of them noticed the old dude sitting like 30 feet away by a lake. He may have just materialized from the correction.
My best theory is that when the time stream changes in little ways, some of those changes "slip through the cracks". For instance, we know Loki is getting a series on Disney+, and we saw him escape with the Tesseract in one of the time hiests. It could be this event caused an alternate Loki to slip into our universe much like Gamora did.
Anyways, just my own musings. Great movie.
To keep things simple I am going to do a few random musings then go over the big thing, time travel.
Was so happy to see Mjolnir back! Even if only temporarily. It makes sense to me why they made Thor get so out of shape. He would have been a beast dual wielding his weapons if he was still in prime shape. The scenes with the parents and their kids kept murdering me. Clint losing his family, Cassie finally being able to see Scott again, Tony just trying to be a good dad, Morgan losing her dad, oh man my heart.
I can't believe they "Harry Kim'ed" Gamora, I was not expecting that. Speaking of that whole thing, how the fuck did Thanos fit his whole ship through the time machine considering it was supposed to use Pyrm Particles to shrink to quantum sizes? Did they steal Nebulas and figure out how to use it? I guess I missed that part?
Actually why where the Avengers even using ships? Thor supposedly has the power of the Bifrost now. Actually, wait, in Infinity War while they were on that circlular ship, Dr. Strange tells Tony to turn it around back to Earth, but he does not know how so they decide just to go to Titan. Now we know Dr. Strange can just sling ring across the universe. Why didn't you just do that!? Haha.
I was honestly surprised to see The Ravagers at the fight. Once I saw the Wakandans I quickly expected the Sorcerers and even the Asgardians since they now live on Earth, but the Ravagers felt out of the left field. (They even had Howard the Duck with them!) Seriously the amount of cameos was blowing my mind. They had at least one side character from pretty much every movie in some way shape or form.
Also, I don't know if Peter Parker has the best luck or the worst. Now that we know all the people came back, but lost five years, it's pretty much official that all of Peter's friends, including Ned, were dusted. On the one hand that's terrible, on the other though it's the only reason he is still on the same level as them. Could you imagine Peter coming back and finding out all his friends graduated years ago?
Speaking of the dusted, it pretty much confirmed that all the dusted people returned directly to the point they vanished, as Doctor Strange and the others were on Titan when they used to sling ring. This is going to be one hell of a bad day for anyone that was traveling on an airplane. At least they won't have long to contemplate what just happened.
Time travel in this movie was played very loose, but honestly I am curious. The Ancient One made it out that time was one long flowing line, and that by removing a stone it would make a "doomed timeline". Banner explained that putting the stone back right at the point it left would fix that, but they changed other drastic things in that timeline, like Loki escaping. Did those still twist off into other time threads? Or much like The Ancient Ones visualized time stream, would putting the stones back actually "rectify" the main timeline even with small changes?
Example, we saw at the end of the movie Steve stayed in the past to be with Peggy, but that event totally destroys her known history. You could say that they just agreed to keep it on the down low, and not involve themselves, but remember during Winter Soldier, Peggy was revealed to have Alzhimers. She wouldn't be able to keep up the ruse in front of the younger Steve once he was unfrozen if her memory was failing as bad as they showed. If it sort of finds ways of correcting itself, then it could be even with his changes, time turned out the same. Might explain why none of them noticed the old dude sitting like 30 feet away by a lake. He may have just materialized from the correction.
My best theory is that when the time stream changes in little ways, some of those changes "slip through the cracks". For instance, we know Loki is getting a series on Disney+, and we saw him escape with the Tesseract in one of the time hiests. It could be this event caused an alternate Loki to slip into our universe much like Gamora did.
Anyways, just my own musings. Great movie.
#78
Tress
Tress
Here’s an interesting interview with the writers explaining many of their choices, including some of the controversial ones.
EDIT: Better link here
EDIT: Better link here
#79
Eriol
As for my opinion, the whole thing about time heist went out the window when they brought Thanos into the future. It kind of breaks things. They could have just prevented the snap entirely, kill Thanos in the crib, or any number of alternative solutions at that point.
That said, the whole movie was fun. You must turn your brain off about paradoxes, etc or else it just doesn't work.
Informative links for people with regards to time travel:
Schlock - causal past is all that matters: (best funny explanation anywhere IMO) https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-04-03 2 minute or so read
Chrono Trigger: (aka: how to explain the entire plot with internal-consistency, aka: mass banishment of Time Bastards to the Darkness Beyond Time) https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Principles_of_Time_and_Dimensional_Travel.html An hour read, minimum.
Eriol
NYT demands subscription.Here’s an interesting interview with the writers explaining many of their choices, including some of the controversial ones.
EDIT: Better link here
As for my opinion, the whole thing about time heist went out the window when they brought Thanos into the future. It kind of breaks things. They could have just prevented the snap entirely, kill Thanos in the crib, or any number of alternative solutions at that point.
That said, the whole movie was fun. You must turn your brain off about paradoxes, etc or else it just doesn't work.
Informative links for people with regards to time travel:
Schlock - causal past is all that matters: (best funny explanation anywhere IMO) https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-04-03 2 minute or so read
Chrono Trigger: (aka: how to explain the entire plot with internal-consistency, aka: mass banishment of Time Bastards to the Darkness Beyond Time) https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Principles_of_Time_and_Dimensional_Travel.html An hour read, minimum.
#80
Bubble181
Doesn't for me?
But, time travel doesn't work, and won't, until we've discovered how it works. We may already have, but not in this timeline.
Bubble181
NYT demands subscription.
Doesn't for me?
But, time travel doesn't work, and won't, until we've discovered how it works. We may already have, but not in this timeline.
#81
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
It's a bit weird, but Hulk tried to explain it best he could on how they treat time.
"If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can’t now be changed by your new future."
Breaking it down, what he is saying is that nothing they do involving their time jumps changes anything in their past. The past is written for them and won't change. The little pockets of time they are traveling to are, in essence, their future.
The Ancient One sort of added onto this saying that by taking the Infinity Stone, they would be "dooming" her reality by creating a secondary timeline that would be destroyed, but Banner said that by bringing the stone back to the moment it was taken, in essence time would correct itself and they would all be part of the same timeline again, as shown in her magical diagram.
My guess is the Stones themselves are the only things that can technically exist outside time, so when Steve, say, goes back to Morag to put back the Power Stone, he isn't going to find Nebula on the floor. When he goes to return the Soul Stone, he won't find Black Widow's corpse at the bottom of the cliff. Those pockets of existence are gone, and by returning the stones, they technically "never happen" in the first place. The timeline re-stabilizes itself.
There are of course ways to fuddle this. For instance, rumor is that Loki escaping with the Space Stone, due to all the time distortions and the power of the Infinity Stones, will actually somehow reappear after the correction and exist in our future. This would lead into his new Disney+ television show, as they have not confirmed said show would be a prequel to his death in Infinity War. He would basically return in a similar fashion to Gamora, who was time displaced out of one of these pockets.
"If you travel in the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can’t now be changed by your new future."
Breaking it down, what he is saying is that nothing they do involving their time jumps changes anything in their past. The past is written for them and won't change. The little pockets of time they are traveling to are, in essence, their future.
The Ancient One sort of added onto this saying that by taking the Infinity Stone, they would be "dooming" her reality by creating a secondary timeline that would be destroyed, but Banner said that by bringing the stone back to the moment it was taken, in essence time would correct itself and they would all be part of the same timeline again, as shown in her magical diagram.
My guess is the Stones themselves are the only things that can technically exist outside time, so when Steve, say, goes back to Morag to put back the Power Stone, he isn't going to find Nebula on the floor. When he goes to return the Soul Stone, he won't find Black Widow's corpse at the bottom of the cliff. Those pockets of existence are gone, and by returning the stones, they technically "never happen" in the first place. The timeline re-stabilizes itself.
There are of course ways to fuddle this. For instance, rumor is that Loki escaping with the Space Stone, due to all the time distortions and the power of the Infinity Stones, will actually somehow reappear after the correction and exist in our future. This would lead into his new Disney+ television show, as they have not confirmed said show would be a prequel to his death in Infinity War. He would basically return in a similar fashion to Gamora, who was time displaced out of one of these pockets.
#82
Far
Far
So they keep harping that you can't bring Black Widow back because she was used to acquire the Soul Stone but 2014 Gamora now exists as the present one despite having been used to acquire it the first time.
Just go back and grab a Widow from before?
Just go back and grab a Widow from before?
#83
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
or two.....So they keep harping that you can't bring Black Widow back because she was used to acquire the Soul Stone but 2014 Gamora now exists as the present one despite having been used to acquire it the first time.
Just go back and grab a Widow from before?
#84
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
My guess is that Gamora and all of the Thanos crew being time displaced is going to create a branching timeline that the writers can use to fool with in later stories if they choose.So they keep harping that you can't bring Black Widow back because she was used to acquire the Soul Stone but 2014 Gamora now exists as the present one despite having been used to acquire it the first time.
Just go back and grab a Widow from before?
#85
figmentPez
figmentPez
Just how many alternate timelines are we saying have been created here? I'm a little confused.
Watching the movie, I thought the Ancient One was saying that the Infinity Stones kept alternate realities from being created by time travel. But the directors said that Captain America had to jump from his happy ending reality back to our reality to give his shield to Sam.
Peter Quill didn't get knocked out during Guardians of the Galaxy, so that throws off the timing of his getting ambushed by Ronan's troops. Does that create an alternate reality? Or do the Infinity Stones nudge things back to the point where the differences don't matter to the timeline as a whole?
Is there any way to go back in time in our reality, and have Thor: Dark World directed by Patty Jenkins (Wonder Woman)?
Does Thanos destroying the Infinity Stones have an impact on reality? Did he really destroy the Infinity Stones? If so, will they reform because they're essential to reality? Or will this have unforeseen consequences?
Watching the movie, I thought the Ancient One was saying that the Infinity Stones kept alternate realities from being created by time travel. But the directors said that Captain America had to jump from his happy ending reality back to our reality to give his shield to Sam.
Peter Quill didn't get knocked out during Guardians of the Galaxy, so that throws off the timing of his getting ambushed by Ronan's troops. Does that create an alternate reality? Or do the Infinity Stones nudge things back to the point where the differences don't matter to the timeline as a whole?
Is there any way to go back in time in our reality, and have Thor: Dark World directed by Patty Jenkins (Wonder Woman)?
Does Thanos destroying the Infinity Stones have an impact on reality? Did he really destroy the Infinity Stones? If so, will they reform because they're essential to reality? Or will this have unforeseen consequences?
#86
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I don't believe that is what she said. She said that by taking the stones from her reality, they would manage to save theirs but her reality would not be able to be saved the same fate. I didn't get the implication that the stones themselves stopped alternate timelines from happening, simply that taking them (without returning them) would doom the alternate timelines they're making.Watching the movie, I thought the Ancient One was saying that the Infinity Stones kept alternate realities from being created by time travel.
#87
evilmike
evilmike
That is what I was originally thinking she meant. I think one reason it is confusing (other than "time travel") is because the taking the Time Stone from her and not returning it results in a future timeline merged with the Dark Dimension.I don't believe that is what she said. She said that by taking the stones from her reality, they would manage to save theirs but her reality would not be able to be saved the same fate. I didn't get the implication that the stones themselves stopped alternate timelines from happening, simply that taking them (without returning them) would doom the alternate timelines they're making.
#88
figmentPez
figmentPez
So, they've created unknown numbers of alternate realities, with unknown fates, and there's still a reality where all the people who were dead from the snap are still dead. So they did everything, and they did nothing, and it's all meaningless.
#89
ScytheRexx
BTW I feel like no one read my post. Haha.
ScytheRexx
Can I get a source on this? He technically can't jump back without the time machine. Did he jump back before his younger self left?But the directors said that Captain America had to jump from his happy ending reality back to our reality to give his shield to Sam.
BTW I feel like no one read my post. Haha.
#90
Dei
Dei
Guys, in all seriousness, don't try to make sense of the time travel. It's a fucking mess.
#91
chris
chris
So they didn't travel back into their one past but into the past of different realities in the first place? Reminds me of a novel I read once. A man from the present is chosen to travel back to 50 BC to fix stuff that went wrong. The way it explained in the book is that they don't travel back in the past but in the present of other realities.But the directors said that Captain America had to jump from his happy ending reality back to our reality to give his shield to Sam.
#92
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
616. It's actually an Easter Egg in the film as a road sign.Just how many alternate timelines are we saying have been created here? I'm a little confused?
#93
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
People, people. Never try thinking about time travel in stories. Unless it's Primer, the science will never, ever make sense if you think about it too much.
#94
Eriol
Eriol
Except for the 50BC part, that's the plot of the Crichton novel Timeline. In Timeline they went to the middle ages. But it's "really" another reality. But it also "impacted" theirsSo they didn't travel back into their one past but into the past of different realities in the first place? Reminds me of a novel I read once. A man from the present is chosen to travel back to 50 BC to fix stuff that went wrong. The way it explained in the book is that they don't travel back in the past but in the present of other realities.
One of the guys that went back in "time/reality" has a tomb that they find in their "time/reality."
#95
Far
Far
I wasn't talking about time travel necessarily. I'm talking about the rigidity they are sticking regarding one character's resurrection while breaking the exact same rule with another.
#96
figmentPez
"The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon."
When asked about Steve's life with Peggy Carter, "We can't answer it for now," Joe said, "this is a story that happened in an alternate reality. Maybe it will be revealed in the future."
"Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline," he continues. "For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam."
figmentPez
AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo Answers Some Huge Lingering Questions And Addresses MajorCan I get a source on this? He technically can't jump back without the time machine. Did he jump back before his younger self left?
BTW I feel like no one read my post. Haha.
"The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon."
When asked about Steve's life with Peggy Carter, "We can't answer it for now," Joe said, "this is a story that happened in an alternate reality. Maybe it will be revealed in the future."
"Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline," he continues. "For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam."
#97
figmentPez
figmentPez
What I'm bothered by is how many alternate realities they're fucking over, just to be able to have a happier ending in their own.
#98
@Li3n
I was assuming they just went with the current time travel mechanics they use in the comics, but i saw the writers saying something about physicists telling them stuff instead, so who knows.
@Li3n
It's actually not explicit enough.So they didn't travel back into their one past but into the past of different realities in the first place?
I was assuming they just went with the current time travel mechanics they use in the comics, but i saw the writers saying something about physicists telling them stuff instead, so who knows.
Well with Widow Hulk tried to resurrect her, but with Gamora they instead created an alternate timeline that has no Thanos past 2014... instead of just using the Gauntlet to wipe their memories and send them back, so no new reality gets made...I wasn't talking about time travel necessarily. I'm talking about the rigidity they are sticking regarding one character's resurrection while breaking the exact same rule with another.
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By putting the stones back, they figure it won't screw them... Hulk says as much.What I'm bothered by is how many alternate realities they're fucking over, just to be able to have a happier ending in their own.
If he wanted to show us that he should have just had Old Cap show up on the platform..."For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam."
#99
figmentPez
figmentPez
But what about the other changes? There's a reality with no Thanos now, and thus no Guardians of the Galaxy, which might mean they didn't stop Ego, which would really screw over that reality.By putting the stones back, they figure it won't screw them... Hulk says as much.
#100
General Specific
General Specific
I would love to see vignettes about Cap putting the stones back in their proper timelines. The Aether was in Jane Foster and had to be removed, so how did he get that taken care of and get Mjolnir back without the Asgardians noticing? The Tesseract appeared to be broken in the future to get the stone out, so how was that reconstituted and reinserted at the military base with no one the wiser? How did Cap get to Vormir and what happened when he found Red Skull there? On & on. The only easy one would be the Time Stone. Just show up at the Battle of New York and hand it back to the Ancient One moments after she gave it to Hulk.
#101
Dave
And Ego still is in check because he doesn't have Quill. He needed Quill to do his plan.
Dave
Xandar also gets fucked because what'shisname (the bad guy from Guardians) is now the most powerful being in the galaxy.But what about the other changes? There's a reality with no Thanos now, and thus no Guardians of the Galaxy, which might mean they didn't stop Ego, which would really screw over that reality.
And Ego still is in check because he doesn't have Quill. He needed Quill to do his plan.
#102
@Li3n
But i don't know about no Guardians, since Ronan would have done things without Thanos anyway, and he already gave him the troops, right?
No Gamora though...
@Li3n
Really, all they needed was to put Thanos back...But what about the other changes? There's a reality with no Thanos now, and thus no Guardians of the Galaxy, which might mean they didn't stop Ego, which would really screw over that reality.
But i don't know about no Guardians, since Ronan would have done things without Thanos anyway, and he already gave him the troops, right?
No Gamora though...
#103
figmentPez
figmentPez
That's assuming that Ego never finds Quill. Which, now that I think about it, who knows what happens to the rest of that movie without Thanos, Gamora, and Nebula driving the plot. Because it's Peter holding the Infinity Stone, however briefly, that brings him to Ego's attention. But, even if that doesn't happen, Quill could still bring himself to Ego's attention by some other means.Xandar also gets fucked because what'shisname (the bad guy from Guardians) is now the most powerful being in the galaxy.
And Ego still is in check because he doesn't have Quill. He needed Quill to do his plan.
#104
Dave
Dave
If the infinity stones are all powerful, Tony could have (1) put Thanos & all the bad guys back with no memory of what had transpired and (2) made a duplicate copy of Gamora to go back with them. Hell, he could have (3) insured that all timelines were put back including Loki, whom he knew went away.
#105
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
People, people. Never try thinking about time travel in stories. Unless it's Primer, the science will never, ever make sense if you think about it too much.
#106
Fun Size
Fun Size
4)*Tony Stark's funeral* But I don't understand. We all saw the Iron Man suit. How could a penis that size could have even fit in there. I guess we'll never know.If the infinity stones are all powerful, Tony could have (1) put Thanos & all the bad guys back with no memory of what had transpired and (2) made a duplicate copy of Gamora to go back with them. Hell, he could have (3) insured that all timelines were put back including Loki, whom he knew went away.
#107
Ravenpoe
If you go by the multiverse theory, all of those timelines already existed. Dr Strange even saw them all
Ravenpoe
What I'm bothered by is how many alternate realities they're fucking over, just to be able to have a happier ending in their own.
If you go by the multiverse theory, all of those timelines already existed. Dr Strange even saw them all
#108
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
While this would be the best solution, saying that Tony Stark would think of that in the moment of self sacrifice is iffy, and from a story telling standpoint, seeing Thanos get dusted is more poignantIf the infinity stones are all powerful, Tony could have (1) put Thanos & all the bad guys back with no memory of what had transpired and (2) made a duplicate copy of Gamora to go back with them. Hell, he could have (3) insured that all timelines were put back including Loki, whom he knew went away.
#109
@Li3n
@Li3n
If we're being realistic, 1st thing Tony should have wished for is to be able to resist using the stones... then free time so he can think all this through...
Actually, forget Tony, that's what Prof. Hulk should have done.
Actually, forget Tony, that's what Prof. Hulk should have done.
#110
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
You can't wish for more wishes, that's rule 1.If we're being realistic, 1st thing Tony should have wished for is to be able to resist using the stones... then free time so he can think all this through...
Actually, forget Tony, that's what Prof. Hulk should have done.
#111
figmentPez
figmentPez
OH! Something I almost forgot to mention in my initial comments:
...
...
I am really looking forward to all the racist tears when Captain America is a black man.
...
...
I am really looking forward to all the racist tears when Captain America is a black man.
#112
Terrik
I would have preferred it to be Bucky. At least they have similar powers, movesets, shared a deep bond that stretched decades, etc. From my perspective, it would have made more sense, but whatevs.
Terrik
OH! Something I almost forgot to mention in my initial comments:
...
...
I am really looking forward to all the racist tears when Captain America is a black man.
I would have preferred it to be Bucky. At least they have similar powers, movesets, shared a deep bond that stretched decades, etc. From my perspective, it would have made more sense, but whatevs.
#113
figmentPez
figmentPez
I'd argue that Bucky's similarities to Steve are what make him a bad choice for the next Captain America. Steve was all that is great about America's past, and they've shown that in the movies. Sam has the potential to represent all that is great about America's future. Bucky can't be that in the same way that Sam can.I would have preferred it to be Bucky. At least they have similar powers, movesets, shared a deep bond that stretched decades, etc. From my perspective, it would have made more sense, but whatevs.
#114
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I got the feeling that Steve had already talked to Bucky about it. Bucky already knew Steve wasn't coming back. Being Cap is more than being strong, it's about knowing what's right, and I can see Bucky agreeing that Sam is better for the job.I would have preferred it to be Bucky. At least they have similar powers, movesets, shared a deep bond that stretched decades, etc. From my perspective, it would have made more sense, but whatevs.
#115
bhamv3
bhamv3
Plus Bucky's had to endure decades of fighting and conflict. Who's to say he'd even want the job?
#116
Celt Z
Celt Z
I could honestly see Bucky telling Steve that despite the help he received in Wakanda, he's still got too many inner demons to sort out to be comfortable taking up the mantle.I got the feeling that Steve had already talked to Bucky about it. Bucky already knew Steve wasn't coming back. Being Cap is more than being strong, it's about knowing what's right, and I can see Bucky agreeing that Sam is better for the job.
#117
Far
Far
Bucky is gonna go by White Wolf or just Wolf now I expect, if he sticks around.
#118
Dave
Dave
SAM HAS NO FUCKING POWERS! Yes, I know that in the comics he's used the falcon suit as Cap, but Falcon is such a B team player that to me this makes no sense.
#119
figmentPez
figmentPez
Yeah, that whole lack of powers thing really kept Iron Man on the B-list.
#120
Ravenpoe
... and, Bucky -also- doesn't have any powers. Nor does Rhodes, Ant-Man, Wasp, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, any of the guardians of the galaxy...
Ravenpoe
You think what made Steve a hero came out of a bottle?SAM HAS NO FUCKING POWERS! Yes, I know that in the comics he's used the falcon suit as Cap, but Falcon is such a B team player that to me this makes no sense.
... and, Bucky -also- doesn't have any powers. Nor does Rhodes, Ant-Man, Wasp, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, any of the guardians of the galaxy...
#121
Dave
Dave
Bucky is a super soldier like Cap. Iron-man was a genius and had more tech than foldable wings. And yup, the rest of those guys are B-listers who wouldn’t make a good Cap.
#122
@Li3n
Plus, his Cap suit from the comic was awful...
Seriously though, they even had Thanos talk about using it to make a new universe, so clearly the stones are as powerful as in the comics...
@Li3n
Besides being brainwashed by soviets/Hydra, and getting a sweet-ass metal arm, he's literally just a genetically normal guy...Bucky is a super soldier like Cap.
Plus, his Cap suit from the comic was awful...
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But clearly Thanos got 2 when he destroyed the stones... and his reason for doing it was to not be tempted to make even more wishes...You can't wish for more wishes, that's rule 1.
Seriously though, they even had Thanos talk about using it to make a new universe, so clearly the stones are as powerful as in the comics...
#123
bhamv3
bhamv3
I'm 99.963% sure that's not the case. There are many scenes of Bucky keeping up with Cap physically even without using the metal arm. The fights in Winter Soldier, running as fast as Cap and Black Panther in Civil War, etc. In terms of physical abilities, Bucky is at least equal to Cap.Besides being brainwashed by soviets/Hydra, and getting a sweet-ass metal arm, he's literally just a genetically normal guy...
#124
Dave
Dave
The whole POINT of Winter Soldier was to prevent the other five super soldiers from being revived and set loose.Turned out to be a moot point, but still.
I wonder what happened to that bad guy. They foreshadowed him like he was going to be this big behind the scenes kind of evil dude but he just disappeared.
I wonder what happened to that bad guy. They foreshadowed him like he was going to be this big behind the scenes kind of evil dude but he just disappeared.
#125
Sparhawk
Sparhawk
Bucky was treated with a hydra/Soviet version of the super-soldier serum along with the attachment of a cybernetic arm.Besides being brainwashed by soviets/Hydra, and getting a sweet-ass metal arm, he's literally just a genetically normal guy...
Plus, his Cap suit from the comic was awful...
#126
Eriol
Gamora: Alien, could be super-strong, fast, etc
Rocket: Explicitly enhanced (also visible cybernetics now and then)
Groot: Alien, super-strong, etc
Drax: Alien, super-strong, etc
Quill: Half-Celestial, definitely has powers
Mantis: Mind-control powers - Probably the least durable of the team, but still has useful powers (even kept Thanos down for a time)
Nebula: Cyborg (full robot?), super-strong/durable
Thor: Asgardian God of thunder/lightning
Just whom on the GoG did you not think had powers? Drax and Gamora maybe but probably only on their species scale. Everybody does on the "human" scale.
Eriol
Point of order:doesn't have any powers. Nor does ...any of the guardians of the galaxy...
Gamora: Alien, could be super-strong, fast, etc
Rocket: Explicitly enhanced (also visible cybernetics now and then)
Groot: Alien, super-strong, etc
Drax: Alien, super-strong, etc
Quill: Half-Celestial, definitely has powers
Mantis: Mind-control powers - Probably the least durable of the team, but still has useful powers (even kept Thanos down for a time)
Nebula: Cyborg (full robot?), super-strong/durable
Thor: Asgardian God of thunder/lightning
Just whom on the GoG did you not think had powers? Drax and Gamora maybe but probably only on their species scale. Everybody does on the "human" scale.
#127
ScytheRexx
I also find it odd that some people are dissing Falcon, the dude may be normal, but if you watched him in Civil War the guy had a better kill count then Black Widow and Scarlet Witch in the first ten minutes of the movie. He was able to keep tabs on Ant Man in the Ant Man movie, when few others could. He held his own versus Iron Man and War Machine during the Airport battle too, tricked Spider-Man when he had him and Bucky captured, and even outsmarted Vision by using his agility to dodge an attack (though that didn't work out for poor Rhodey).
If the dude is "normal" he is exceptionally skilled regardless and has a quick, strategic mind. That is probably why Cap picked him.
ScytheRexx
HAD powers. Part of the plot of GOTG2 is that his powers were derived through Ego, and that once Ego perished he became basically a normal human forever. His only abilities now are his space gadgets and guns, similar to how Falcon relies on his wingsuit, robot bird, and guns.Quill: Half-Celestial, definitely has powers
I also find it odd that some people are dissing Falcon, the dude may be normal, but if you watched him in Civil War the guy had a better kill count then Black Widow and Scarlet Witch in the first ten minutes of the movie. He was able to keep tabs on Ant Man in the Ant Man movie, when few others could. He held his own versus Iron Man and War Machine during the Airport battle too, tricked Spider-Man when he had him and Bucky captured, and even outsmarted Vision by using his agility to dodge an attack (though that didn't work out for poor Rhodey).
If the dude is "normal" he is exceptionally skilled regardless and has a quick, strategic mind. That is probably why Cap picked him.
#128
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
This conversation makes me want to see every single Guardian in a Captain America costume.
Especially Groot.
Especially Groot.
#129
Eriol
Eriol
I'll have to re-watch that to be sure. Yes not the whole living planet thing, but nothing? He's still half not-human. I also thought there was the possibility that the "spark" from Ego was under Quill's control now if he wanted to, but again, only saw the movie once when it came out, so not going to make concrete declarations on that old of a memory of things that I thought were left more ambiguous.HAD powers. Part of the plot of GOTG2 is that his powers were derived through Ego, and that once Ego perished he became basically a normal human forever. His only abilities now are his space gadgets and guns, similar to how Falcon relies on his wingsuit, robot bird, and guns.
#130
ScytheRexx
Ego says that if he dies, Quill would be just like everyone else. Quill accepts this. Ego dies, and the spark in Quill fades, removing all his power. This is why right after as it looks like Quill is going to die in the planets collapse, Yondu had to fly in and sacrifice himself to save him.
ScytheRexx
It's not ambiguous at all.I'll have to re-watch that to be sure. Yes not the whole living planet thing, but nothing? He's still half not-human. I also thought there was the possibility that the "spark" from Ego was under Quill's control now if he wanted to, but again, only saw the movie once when it came out, so not going to make concrete declarations on that old of a memory of things that I thought were left more ambiguous.
Ego says that if he dies, Quill would be just like everyone else. Quill accepts this. Ego dies, and the spark in Quill fades, removing all his power. This is why right after as it looks like Quill is going to die in the planets collapse, Yondu had to fly in and sacrifice himself to save him.
#131
figmentPez
figmentPez
Unreliable narrator. Ego has a huge incentive to lie, and has been lying about a lot of things in the movie. Even if he's not (and we assume he actually knows what he's talking about), he may not mean that Quill is merely human without Ego, but that Quill won't have as much power without Ego alive. Quill could still be significantly more than human, while at the same time having that amount of power be considered insignificant to Ego. Keep in mind that Drax and Gamora, among others, are "everyone else" in this case.Ego says that if he dies, Quill would be just like everyone else. Quill accepts this. Ego dies, and the spark in Quill fades, removing all his power. This is why right after as it looks like Quill is going to die in the planets collapse, Yondu had to fly in and sacrifice himself to save him.
#132
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I would actually say it's Falcon's social work. Remember cap met falcon (after the jogging incident) because he was leading a veteran support group. He knows what it means to lose and come back, to persevere and help others do the same. It's why cap doing the same after the snap felt so poignant, he was using what he learned from Sam to try to move on.That is probably why Cap picked him.
#133
Celt Z
Celt Z
But Quill didn't show any signs of having retained any celestial powers/invulnerability during IW or Endgame, and we know that James Gunn helped write the Guardian parts. If he has any, either he doesn't know and can't feel it (and it will manifest somehow in G3), or Ego was right.Unreliable narrator. Ego has a huge incentive to lie, and has been lying about a lot of things in the movie. Even if he's not (and we assume he actually knows what he's talking about), he may not mean that Quill is merely human without Ego, but that Quill won't have as much power without Ego alive. Quill could still be significantly more than human, while at the same time having that amount of power be considered insignificant to Ego. Keep in mind that Drax and Gamora, among others, are "everyone else" in this case.
#134
figmentPez
figmentPez
Quill didn't show any overt signs of Celestial powers in GotG1, either. Not until he managed to hold the Infinity Stone, that is.But Quill didn't show any signs of having retained any celestial powers/invulnerability during IW or Endgame, and we know that James Gunn helped write the Guardian parts. If he has any, either he doesn't know and can't feel it (and it will manifest somehow in G3), or Ego was right.
#135
ScytheRexx
When Ego dies, his power dies with him, and thus Quill can no longer tap into it. He may biologically still be part celestial, but since Ego created him to be a conduit of his own powers, Ego being dead means those powers can no longer feed through Quill. This is why he does not use said powers in Infinity War or Endgame when they are most needed (like saving Gamora), because he can't.
As for him holding the Power Stone, that was back when Ego was still alive, and was even hinted to be the reason Ego found him (Not to mention, it still took the other GOTG to share to load for him not to get vaporized) Ego could "feel" the power in Quill, because, again, Quill was an extension of him. Whether he can still do that now is up in the air, but his celestial powers sure didn't save him from being snapped.
ScytheRexx
The point is, Ego created Quill to be an EXTENSION of him. It's in his name (Ego). The only reason he created Quill was to return and help him finally achieve his goal of becoming EVERYTHING by acting as an extra conduit of Ego's own power (cancer metaphor anyone?). That is what all of Ego's kids were made to become, but Quill was the only one that was a success (Ego killed all the others).Quill didn't show any overt signs of Celestial powers in GotG1, either. Not until he managed to hold the Infinity Stone, that is.
When Ego dies, his power dies with him, and thus Quill can no longer tap into it. He may biologically still be part celestial, but since Ego created him to be a conduit of his own powers, Ego being dead means those powers can no longer feed through Quill. This is why he does not use said powers in Infinity War or Endgame when they are most needed (like saving Gamora), because he can't.
As for him holding the Power Stone, that was back when Ego was still alive, and was even hinted to be the reason Ego found him (Not to mention, it still took the other GOTG to share to load for him not to get vaporized) Ego could "feel" the power in Quill, because, again, Quill was an extension of him. Whether he can still do that now is up in the air, but his celestial powers sure didn't save him from being snapped.
#136
Eriol
Either way, he's still at least partially not-human, which is enough to say he's not just a "regular" either. This isn't a Terra at the end of FFVI situation. Peter is still partially an alien.
Eriol
And that's all I'm asserting. I appreciate you finding a clip, though I agree with Pez that Ego is an unreliable narrator as well.He may biologically still be part celestial
Either way, he's still at least partially not-human, which is enough to say he's not just a "regular" either. This isn't a Terra at the end of FFVI situation. Peter is still partially an alien.
#137
figmentPez
Not using powers in Infinity War or Endgame doesn't mean he doesn't have them, just that he doesn't know how to use them, or the powers he does have weren't relevant. For all the jokes about how lame Quill is, he keeps up with the rest of the Guardians pretty damn well. Anyone notice that? Has someone pointed out that the Guardians are pretty well above human abilities? At the very least, Quill is a pretty remarkable human being.
Did any of the Celestials' powers stop them from being snapped? We don't exactly have any benchmark to even imply that Ego himself would have been immune to the power of the Infinity Stones.
Oh, and let's fall back to the truth that Quill's Celestial heritage means whatever the writers decide it does. I'm just laying out logical ways that what's already been shown on screen is not inconsistent with Quill having some sort of non-human abilities.
figmentPez
Not having Ego's full powers does not mean Quill doesn't have any powers at all. Ego said he took a long time to learn how to use his powers. If Quill using Celestial powers was him tapping into Ego's power, then it could be that without Ego Quill could build up his own abilities but it would take eons to do so. OR Quill's mixed heritage could mean he has different powers than Ego. Or only a small sub-set of Ego's powers. Or require specific circumstances for the powers to become active.The point is, Ego created Quill to be an EXTENSION of him. It's in his name (Ego). The only reason he created Quill was to return and help him finally achieve his goal of becoming EVERYTHING by acting as an extra conduit of Ego's own power (cancer metaphor anyone?). That is what all of Ego's kids were made to become, but Quill was the only one that was a success (Ego killed all the others).
When Ego dies, his power dies with him, and thus Quill can no longer tap into it. He may biologically still be part celestial, but since Ego created him to be a conduit of his own powers, Ego being dead means those powers can no longer feed through Quill. This is why he does not use said powers in Infinity War or Endgame when they are most needed (like saving Gamora), because he can't.
As for him holding the Power Stone, that was back when Ego was still alive, and was even hinted to be the reason Ego found him. Ego could "feel" the power in Quill, because, again, Quill was an extension of him. Whether he can still do that now is up in the air, but his celestial powers sure didn't save him from being snapped.
Not using powers in Infinity War or Endgame doesn't mean he doesn't have them, just that he doesn't know how to use them, or the powers he does have weren't relevant. For all the jokes about how lame Quill is, he keeps up with the rest of the Guardians pretty damn well. Anyone notice that? Has someone pointed out that the Guardians are pretty well above human abilities? At the very least, Quill is a pretty remarkable human being.
Did any of the Celestials' powers stop them from being snapped? We don't exactly have any benchmark to even imply that Ego himself would have been immune to the power of the Infinity Stones.
Oh, and let's fall back to the truth that Quill's Celestial heritage means whatever the writers decide it does. I'm just laying out logical ways that what's already been shown on screen is not inconsistent with Quill having some sort of non-human abilities.
#138
ScytheRexx
Look at Black Widow and Hawkeye. One is a woman trained to be an assassin with no super enhnacements, and the other learned to be ridiculiously good with a bow. Why are these guys "acceptable" as powerful Avengers, but Sam Wilson with all his talent and technology and wingsuit, isn't? Why? That is all I am asking here with how people seem to get on Sam's case. The dude is a man among titans and still holds his own.
ScytheRexx
That is the thing though. Replace "Guardians" with "Avengers" and "Star-Lord" with "Falcon" and suddenly what's different? Sam fights alongside / versus two men in super metal suits, a man that can shrink or grow, two super soldiers, one super prince in vibranium armor, a mutant kid in a spider suit, a unquestionably powerful robot, a woman with untold psychic abilities, etc...For all the jokes about how lame Quill is, he keeps up with the rest of the Guardians pretty damn well. Anyone notice that? Has someone pointed out that the Guardians are pretty well above human abilities? At the very least, Quill is a pretty remarkable human being.
Look at Black Widow and Hawkeye. One is a woman trained to be an assassin with no super enhnacements, and the other learned to be ridiculiously good with a bow. Why are these guys "acceptable" as powerful Avengers, but Sam Wilson with all his talent and technology and wingsuit, isn't? Why? That is all I am asking here with how people seem to get on Sam's case. The dude is a man among titans and still holds his own.
I agree with this, but that is the case regardless of powers. Do you really think someone like Black Widow would logically be able to hold her own versus Bucky even a bit? She does, in Civil War, but that is because she has to for the story. Everything comes down to what the writers want, thus why Sam is set to be the new Captain America. I just think discrediting his accomplishments is a bit unjust since he was there with Steve through a lot of these movies and didn't show himself as any type of liability. He isn't Steve Roger's Jimmy Olsen.Oh, and let's fall back to the truth that Quill's Celestial heritage means whatever the writers decide it does. I'm just laying out logical ways that what's already been shown on screen is not inconsistent with Quill having some sort of non-human abilities.
#139
Eriol
Eriol
@ScytheRexx I started a side-thing about the GoG being all "empowered" after @Ravenpoe said they weren't. Making this all about Sam and accusing us of trying to "get on Sam's case" is beside the entire argument about Quill.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
#140
Dei
Dei
But the conversation started because people said Sam shouldn't be Captain America because he has no powers.@ScytheRexx I started a side-thing about the GoG being all "empowered" after @Ravenpoe said they weren't. Making this all about Sam and accusing us of trying to "get on Sam's case" is beside the entire argument about Quill.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
#141
ScytheRexx
Arguing "Well, he COULD have powers!" isn't a valid arguement. He needs to SHOW he has powers, and that said powers are not tied to Ego. He has yet to do that.
Again, him holding the Infinity Stone (when it required Rocket, Gamora, and Drax to "share the load" just so he didn't vaporize) is one moment that may show slightly higher celestial durability (though for all we know, only towards infinity stones, due to space demi-god wonky woo) but who is to say the fact Ego was alive at the time isn't a part of that? We don't, because nothing Quill has shown in three of his four movies has shown anything other then "bipedal man with cool space gadgets and good aim".
He is basically the Falcon of the GOTG, which is why I segwayed back to the original argument.
ScytheRexx
The whole segway started because someone brought up Sam having no powers, and thus he wouldn't make a good Captain America. Ravenpoe brought up how most of the GOTG as not having powers (which yes, isn't true) but then you brought up that Star-Lord has powers, which I disagreed. Yes, he does have powers when with Ego, but in GOTG, Infinity War, and Endgame, he does not show any extra-ordinary powers. He isn't lifting buses with his hands, he isn't making fire shoot out his mouth, etc. In Endgame, War Machine literally brained him with his metal arm.@ScytheRexx I started a side-thing about the GoG being all "empowered" after @Ravenpoe said they weren't. Making this all about Sam and accusing us of trying to "get on Sam's case" is beside the entire argument about Quill.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
Arguing "Well, he COULD have powers!" isn't a valid arguement. He needs to SHOW he has powers, and that said powers are not tied to Ego. He has yet to do that.
Again, him holding the Infinity Stone (when it required Rocket, Gamora, and Drax to "share the load" just so he didn't vaporize) is one moment that may show slightly higher celestial durability (though for all we know, only towards infinity stones, due to space demi-god wonky woo) but who is to say the fact Ego was alive at the time isn't a part of that? We don't, because nothing Quill has shown in three of his four movies has shown anything other then "bipedal man with cool space gadgets and good aim".
He is basically the Falcon of the GOTG, which is why I segwayed back to the original argument.
#142
Tiger Tsang
Tiger Tsang
#143
figmentPez
That said, if the Black Widow movie reveals that she's been subject to some sort of enhancement, would anyone even bat an eye and say "There's been no evidence that she's enhanced!" I'm not saying that she must be, or that it would be a good plot point that she is, but she does stuff that humans in our world can't pull off (and so does Batman, James Bond, John McClane, and a bunch of other action heroes). My point is that it's really hard to tell if a character has powers/enhancements until the plot explicitly tells us.
figmentPez
I'm with you on Sam. Sam is awesome. Sam deserves to be Captain America. Sam isn't a B-lister, he's ben a major character in the development of the plot, especially when it comes to Captain America. Sam helped Cap connect to the present in ways that no one else was able to. Sam has been a major player in operations during multiple movies. Sam has great chemistry with a number of characters, including Bucky and Black Panther. (Also, his tech consists of a lot more than just his wings, and can be expanded upon as plot requires. I question if anyone has even watched the movies if they think Falcon's tech isn't up to the task of being Captain America.) But most of all, Captain America isn't about power levels, it's about leadership and moral character. Sam has both of those essential qualities.That is the thing though. Replace "Guardians" with "Avengers" and "Star-Lord" with "Falcon" and suddenly what's different? Sam fights alongside / versus two men in super metal suits, a man that can shrink or grow, two super soldiers, one super prince in vibranium armor, a mutant kid in a spider suit, a unquestionably powerful robot, a woman with untold psychic abilities, etc...
Look at Black Widow and Hawkeye. One is a woman trained to be an assassin with no super enhnacements, and the other learned to be ridiculiously good with a bow. Why are these guys "acceptable" as powerful Avengers, but Sam Wilson with all his talent and technology and wingsuit, isn't? Why? That is all I am asking here with how people seem to get on Sam's case. The dude is a man among titans and still holds his own.
That said, if the Black Widow movie reveals that she's been subject to some sort of enhancement, would anyone even bat an eye and say "There's been no evidence that she's enhanced!" I'm not saying that she must be, or that it would be a good plot point that she is, but she does stuff that humans in our world can't pull off (and so does Batman, James Bond, John McClane, and a bunch of other action heroes). My point is that it's really hard to tell if a character has powers/enhancements until the plot explicitly tells us.
You're right, that's how Quill has been played in the movies thus far. However, if the plot of GotG3, or any future movie, deviates from that and has plot development based around his celestial heritage, it won't be a plot hole or a retcon. It's been set up since the first movie that Quill is not human.He is basically the Falcon of the GOTG, which is why I segwayed back to the original argument.
#144
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
Pfft, I still say being Bautista isn't a powerRavenpoe brought up how most of the GOTG as not having powers (which yes, isn't true)
#145
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
But standing very still is.Pfft, I still say being Bautista isn't a power
#146
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Okay watch this scene and tell me Bautista isn't a power. You can't.
#147
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
I concede, I can't argue against thatOkay watch this scene and tell me Bautista isn't a power. You can't.
#148
Dave
Dave
Neither Sam, nor Hawkeye, nor Black Widow, etc. could be Cap. It has NOTHING to do with anything other than he's not powerful enough. And that goes for a lot of the other characters as well. But then we swing back to the whole, "the MCU loves certain characters" thing. Like Drax never wins a fight. He's there to look strong but never really succeed. There's really only a few of the MCU that are allowed to be strong and effective. Yeah, they win small fights against weak characters but not the big fights. And don't give me the whole "Black Widow & Hawkeye in the battle of New York". Were it not for Iron Man, Thor, & the Hulk it would have been stupid quick how fast it would have been over. Hell, even Cap was hamstrung by the fact that he could only fight locally on the ground.
I like Sam. I think he's a good character. I just don't think he's powerful enough to be Cap.
I like Sam. I think he's a good character. I just don't think he's powerful enough to be Cap.
#149
Dei
Dei
I would argue that the title of Captain America has morphed into something that is more a symbol than a specific hero architype. You can even see it in the real world if you ever pay attention to Chris Evans on Twitter. Maybe the problem is less that you think other characters can't be Cap, but it's really more that no other character can be Steve Rogers.
#150
figmentPez
figmentPez
You and I have a fundamental disagreement on what it means to be Captain Amercia.I just don't think he's powerful enough to be Cap.
#151
Dave
Dave
The problem with that is that if you get a Cap that isn't very powerful it's going to be a symbol all right. Right after he continues to get his ass kicked.I would argue that the title of Captain America has morphed into something that is more a symbol than a specific hero architype. You can even see it in the real world if you ever pay attention to Chris Evans on Twitter. Maybe the problem is less that you think other characters can't be Cap, but it's really more that no other character can be Steve Rogers.
Heart has a lot to do with it and Sam has that heroism. But Cap also has to be able to handle himself in a fight and Sam could only do this is if the foe is fairly weak.You and I have a fundamental disagreement on what it means to be Captain Amercia.
#152
figmentPez
figmentPez
Who says he's going to get his ass kicked?The problem with that is that if you get a Cap that isn't very powerful it's going to be a symbol all right. Right after he continues to get his ass kicked.
That's assuming that Sam uses the same strategies that Steve does. Which he won't. Sam will be a different style of hero than Steve was.Heart has a lot to do with it and Sam has that heroism. But Cap also has to be able to handle himself in a fight and Sam could only do this is if the foe is fairly weak.
#153
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
That's only true if the writing is short sighted and terribleSam could only do this is if the foe is fairly weak.
#154
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
Like Superman, Cap is more than just his powers. Just having powers doesn't define him, nor would it define Sam if he takes up the mantle. In terms of judging him by his character, I don't think anyone would question his worthiness.
#155
Dave
Dave
Or the enemy was, you know, powerful and smart.That's only true if the writing is short sighted and terrible
#156
figmentPez
I mean, I'd cite examples, but there just aren't any. Spider-Man has never been outmatched by an order of magnitude or more, because Spider-Man has powers, and that's the only bar that matters.
figmentPez
Yeah, heroes never win against villains who are more powerful than they are. It just doesn't happen.Or the enemy was, you know, powerful and smart.
I mean, I'd cite examples, but there just aren't any. Spider-Man has never been outmatched by an order of magnitude or more, because Spider-Man has powers, and that's the only bar that matters.
#157
Dave
Dave
In this MCU Spider-man has never won a fight.Yeah, heroes never win against villains who are more powerful than they are. It just doesn't happen.
#158
figmentPez
figmentPez
And, yet, somehow he's a A-list hero who is an amazing character who definitely deserves having a sequel to his movie. Funny how that works. Great writing matters a whole lot more than perceived power levels.In this MCU Spider-man has never won a fight.
#159
Dave
Dave
You're right. Anyone can be Cap if he has a lot of heart and his enemies are written poorly so that his SUPER STRENGTH WHICH WAS INSIDE OF HIM ALL ALONG wins the day. And that's all that matters. He doesn't need powers, just a plucky, never-say-die attitude.
#160
figmentPez
figmentPez
Or, ya know, a crap load of technology, a team he's leading, and better tactics than his enemy. The same things that make Batman work as a hero, despite him not having super soldier serum running through his veins.
#161
Dave
Dave
Now Batman is a MUCH better thing to compare him to. And I agree that it comes down to how the writers treat the hero. They could make Cap lose every fight or make Bob from Deadpool win. It's completely arbitrary.
But let's get back to the Batman analogy. Batman is effective because (for some reason) now he's super smart & almost prescient when it comes to neutralizing enemies. The money they both have and the team angle goes to Sam.
BUT in a one-on-one fight, Sam is gonna get his clock cleaned by a powerful and smart enemy. Sam wouldn't have lasted against Thanos as long as Rogers because a punch that would hurt Rogers would liquefy a normal person. And having Sam be suddenly worthy of Thor's hammer would be a huge cop-out.
So I respectfully disagree that Sam is the smart choice for Cap.
But let's get back to the Batman analogy. Batman is effective because (for some reason) now he's super smart & almost prescient when it comes to neutralizing enemies. The money they both have and the team angle goes to Sam.
BUT in a one-on-one fight, Sam is gonna get his clock cleaned by a powerful and smart enemy. Sam wouldn't have lasted against Thanos as long as Rogers because a punch that would hurt Rogers would liquefy a normal person. And having Sam be suddenly worthy of Thor's hammer would be a huge cop-out.
So I respectfully disagree that Sam is the smart choice for Cap.
#162
figmentPez
figmentPez
So basically your argument is that Sam would be a bad choice because you're assuming bad writing. Okay, whatever.
#163
Dave
Dave
And you're assuming he'll be effective because of bad writing. Okay, whatever.
#164
figmentPez
figmentPez
No, I'm assuming that good writing will put him up against foes that are both thematically appropriate and that provide the right amount of dramatic tension to drive a movie. The MCU has a pretty good track record of doing exactly that, so I have no expectations that they'll make a huge deviation any time soon.And you're assuming he'll be effective because of bad writing. Okay, whatever.
#165
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
Dave, you do realize we are talking about a film series that started with Tony, before he even got his red suit, being able to shrug off blunt force trauma that would paralyze a normal person?
It's not supposed to be realistic.
Tony should have turned into soup the first time he launched himself up into the air inside a literal iron casket that didn't show any blunt force protection, but he didn't, because no one wanted to see the movie end in the first ten minutes.
Hell, in Infinity War, Thanos fucking crushes the Hulk. CRUSHES him. By the nature of the Hulk's strength and durability, that means Thanos punches had to give more force then a tank shell. Later on, Thanos struggles for a moment to overpower Steve Rogers, who while a super-soldier, has nowhere near the raw strength of the Hulk. Another few minutes later, Thanos, with his bare fingers, rips into fucking VIBRANIUM to remove the Mind Stone from Vision, like it was made of soft playdoh.
It's not supposed to be consistent, because like I said, no one wants to see the hero get turned into soup after only a few seconds. The villain is only ever strong as he needs to be for the person he is fighting.
It's not supposed to be realistic.
Tony should have turned into soup the first time he launched himself up into the air inside a literal iron casket that didn't show any blunt force protection, but he didn't, because no one wanted to see the movie end in the first ten minutes.
Hell, in Infinity War, Thanos fucking crushes the Hulk. CRUSHES him. By the nature of the Hulk's strength and durability, that means Thanos punches had to give more force then a tank shell. Later on, Thanos struggles for a moment to overpower Steve Rogers, who while a super-soldier, has nowhere near the raw strength of the Hulk. Another few minutes later, Thanos, with his bare fingers, rips into fucking VIBRANIUM to remove the Mind Stone from Vision, like it was made of soft playdoh.
It's not supposed to be consistent, because like I said, no one wants to see the hero get turned into soup after only a few seconds. The villain is only ever strong as he needs to be for the person he is fighting.
#166
@Li3n
And: In 1991, the brainwashed super-soldier James "Bucky" Barnes is dispatched from a Hydra base in Siberia to intercept an automobile carrying a case of super-soldier serum.
So the 5 where made way after Winter Soldier was a thing.
But stuff like keeping up with him etc doesn't really count IMO when Cap was able to withstand Thanos pushing him for a few seconds after Thanos body slammed the Hulk no problem, their power levels have always been inconsistent.
@Li3n
I think you're confusing it with Civil War.The whole POINT of Winter Soldier was to prevent the other five super soldiers from being revived and set loose.Turned out to be a moot point, but still.
And: In 1991, the brainwashed super-soldier James "Bucky" Barnes is dispatched from a Hydra base in Siberia to intercept an automobile carrying a case of super-soldier serum.
So the 5 where made way after Winter Soldier was a thing.
Well since they changed him from being the descendant of one of Caps WW2 foes to just some guy that lost family in Sokovia, so his story arc kind of ended when he made the Avengers mad at each other.I wonder what happened to that bad guy. They foreshadowed him like he was going to be this big behind the scenes kind of evil dude but he just disappeared.
Well, it's true that MCU Cap is more superhuman then just peak human like in the comics...I'm 99.963% sure that's not the case. There are many scenes of Bucky keeping up with Cap physically even without using the metal arm. The fights in Winter Soldier, running as fast as Cap and Black Panther in Civil War, etc. In terms of physical abilities, Bucky is at least equal to Cap.
But stuff like keeping up with him etc doesn't really count IMO when Cap was able to withstand Thanos pushing him for a few seconds after Thanos body slammed the Hulk no problem, their power levels have always been inconsistent.
Do they ever mention that, or do we just assume since he can hold his own against Cap and BP?Bucky was treated with a hydra/Soviet version of the super-soldier serum along with the attachment of a cybernetic arm.
#167
figmentPez
figmentPez
#168
figmentPez
figmentPez
@PatrThom fixed the broken image. I was really wondering why you gave me that rating when I first came back to the thread.
#169
PatrThom
—Patrick
PatrThom
I deliberately blur my vision when I visit this thread to clear the unread, but even when blurred, I know what the “imgur is being a jerk” image looks like.@PatrThom fixed the broken image. I was really wondering why you gave me that rating when I first came back to the thread.
—Patrick
#170
Dave
Dave
Per the Russo Brothers, spoiler season for Endgame ends Monday.
#171
figmentPez
figmentPez
#172
Tiger Tsang
Tiger Tsang
Stark enterprises will build him a self repairing nanotech Falcon suit *ala Spiderman*. There. Now Kiss! *I'm with you Dave.*
#173
figmentPez
figmentPez
Assuming that Shuri doesn't build him something even better.Stark enterprises will build him a self repairing nanotech Falcon suit *ala Spiderman*. There. Now Kiss! *I'm with you Dave.*
#174
Tiger Tsang
That is if they finally allow Wakandan technology outside of their control.
And then Rocket laughs at both of them, "You fly around in that thing?!? Gimmie a minute" and whips him up something real quick.
*MCU is making it hard to image search, but in marvel comic books, when tony is with the guardians, Tony is boasting about how his suit is some of the most advanced tech on earth, and Rocket is like "Earth? BWAHAHAHHA"*
Tiger Tsang
He'll have easier access to Stark technology, official avenger's and what not.Assuming that Shuri doesn't build him something even better.
That is if they finally allow Wakandan technology outside of their control.
And then Rocket laughs at both of them, "You fly around in that thing?!? Gimmie a minute" and whips him up something real quick.
*MCU is making it hard to image search, but in marvel comic books, when tony is with the guardians, Tony is boasting about how his suit is some of the most advanced tech on earth, and Rocket is like "Earth? BWAHAHAHHA"*
#175
BErt
BErt
"Hi Peter Parker. Do you have something for me?"I reserve the right to change my mind later, but right now my favorite moment was Peter meeting Carol. "Hi Peter." He is going to be thinking about that moment for years.... or maybe I'm just a little infatuated with Brie Larson.
#176
GasBandit
GasBandit
#177
GasBandit
GasBandit
#178
GasBandit
GasBandit
#180
Dave
Dave
Old Cap would never had used the word "ass".
Language!
Language!
#181
Celt Z
Celt Z
Good point. Let's clean that up a bit:
"That's America's tush!"
"That's America's bottom!"
"That's America's booty!"
"That's America's rump!"
"That's America's caboose!"
"That's America's ba-donk-adonk!"
You know, I think this only makes it worse.
"That's America's tush!"
"That's America's bottom!"
"That's America's booty!"
"That's America's rump!"
"That's America's caboose!"
"That's America's ba-donk-adonk!"
You know, I think this only makes it worse.
#182
Frank
Frank
Little late to the argument, but I'll just say this, Bucky fucking sucks and no one would trust his brainwashed bland ass to be Captain America. 1000% Sam is the pick.
Falcon-Cap looks WAY cooler than Bucky-Cap in the comics too.
Falcon-Cap looks WAY cooler than Bucky-Cap in the comics too.
#183
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
Old Cap was a feisty kid from Brooklyn. "Ass" is just not trying.Old Cap would never had used the word "ass".
Language!
#184
mikerc
mikerc
Y'know I wonder what any planets that haven't heard of Thanos would have made of the Snap in the MCU. One day half the population just up & turns to dust, then 5 years later they reappear as mysteriously as they vanished, only they didn't age in the time they were gone or have any memories of the intervening time.
What happened? Is it going to happen again? If it does, will the vanished come back again?
Might be interesting in a future space based movie (Guardians or Cap Marvel sequels) to see the heroes visit a planet like that & see what they make of it.
"You are witches and we will burn you for the glory of our God."
"How do you even know your God exists?"
"Well a few years ago we didn't worship Him well enough so He made half our population disappear, then we turned back to religion and asked for forgiveness and He restored the lives of our lost."
"No, see, that was a really ugly alien called Thanos. See there were these things called the Infinity Stones..."
"SILENCE! I will not hear of your lies."
What happened? Is it going to happen again? If it does, will the vanished come back again?
Might be interesting in a future space based movie (Guardians or Cap Marvel sequels) to see the heroes visit a planet like that & see what they make of it.
"You are witches and we will burn you for the glory of our God."
"How do you even know your God exists?"
"Well a few years ago we didn't worship Him well enough so He made half our population disappear, then we turned back to religion and asked for forgiveness and He restored the lives of our lost."
"No, see, that was a really ugly alien called Thanos. See there were these things called the Infinity Stones..."
"SILENCE! I will not hear of your lies."
#185
@Li3n
@Li3n
Missread that as plants the 1st time...Y'know I wonder what any planets that haven't heard of Thanos would have made of the Snap in the MCU.
#186
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
Wasn't there a tv show with this plot called the vanished? I'm going to say that was one of the planets.Y'know I wonder what any planets that haven't heard of Thanos would have made of the Snap in the MCU. One day half the population just up & turns to dust, then 5 years later they reappear as mysteriously as they vanished, only they didn't age in the time they were gone or have any memories of the intervening time.
What happened? Is it going to happen again? If it does, will the vanished come back again?
Might be interesting in a future space based movie (Guardians or Cap Marvel sequels) to see the heroes visit a planet like that & see what they make of it.
"You are witches and we will burn you for the glory of our God."
"How do you even know your God exists?"
"Well a few years ago we didn't worship Him well enough so He made half our population disappear, then we turned back to religion and asked for forgiveness and He restored the lives of our lost."
"No, see, that was a really ugly alien called Thanos. See there were these things called the Infinity Stones..."
"SILENCE! I will not hear of your lies."
#187
chris
chris
Why another planet? I'm sure somebody on earth will exploit the hell out of other people with both events. Suicide cults are mentioned at one point in the movie for example.Y'know I wonder what any planets that haven't heard of Thanos would have made of the Snap in the MCU. One day half the population just up & turns to dust, then 5 years later they reappear as mysteriously as they vanished, only they didn't age in the time they were gone or have any memories of the intervening time.
What happened? Is it going to happen again? If it does, will the vanished come back again?
Might be interesting in a future space based movie (Guardians or Cap Marvel sequels) to see the heroes visit a planet like that & see what they make of it.
"You are witches and we will burn you for the glory of our God."
"How do you even know your God exists?"
"Well a few years ago we didn't worship Him well enough so He made half our population disappear, then we turned back to religion and asked for forgiveness and He restored the lives of our lost."
"No, see, that was a really ugly alien called Thanos. See there were these things called the Infinity Stones..."
"SILENCE! I will not hear of your lies."
#188
Celt Z
Celt Z
This sounds like an episode of Star Trek.Y'know I wonder what any planets that haven't heard of Thanos would have made of the Snap in the MCU. One day half the population just up & turns to dust, then 5 years later they reappear as mysteriously as they vanished, only they didn't age in the time they were gone or have any memories of the intervening time.
What happened? Is it going to happen again? If it does, will the vanished come back again?
Might be interesting in a future space based movie (Guardians or Cap Marvel sequels) to see the heroes visit a planet like that & see what they make of it.
"You are witches and we will burn you for the glory of our God."
"How do you even know your God exists?"
"Well a few years ago we didn't worship Him well enough so He made half our population disappear, then we turned back to religion and asked for forgiveness and He restored the lives of our lost."
"No, see, that was a really ugly alien called Thanos. See there were these things called the Infinity Stones..."
"SILENCE! I will not hear of your lies."
#189
Frank
Frank
I wonder if all the flagrant time travel will bring on Kang.
#190
Celt Z
Celt Z
If they stick with their pattern of "whoever shows up in the Lego Marvel games is going to appear in the movies", then yes.I wonder if all the flagrant time travel will bring on Kang.
#191
Frank
Frank
Yeah, after pondering that I looked it up and it's a super popular theory. Fucking nerds.
#192
figmentPez
figmentPez
#193
@Li3n
@Li3n
#194
figmentPez
figmentPez
#195
GasBandit
GasBandit
#196
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Woah. Steve Rodgers is the guy who sold Coulson the Captain America cards.....
#197
figmentPez
figmentPez
#198
HCGLNS
HCGLNS
Yeah that's kind of what got me thinking. He's a baseball fan, probably kept tons of Reggie Jackson rookie cards.....then omg, he kept a mint set of Cap cards for Coulson!
#199
Far
Far
His niece kissed him and while he didn't know at the time she sure did.
#200
figmentPez
figmentPez
#201
General Specific
General Specific
MUST. STOP. PEDANT. INSIDE ME....
Thanos used his LEFT hand for the glove and snap, NOT his RIGHT!
GAH! Sorry.... couldn't help myself.
Thanos used his LEFT hand for the glove and snap, NOT his RIGHT!
GAH! Sorry.... couldn't help myself.
#202
Celt Z
Celt Z
Very true, but everyone wore the glove on their right in Endgame, so if the artist drew this recently, I can see why he'd forget.MUST. STOP. PEDANT. INSIDE ME....
View attachment 31259
Thanos used his LEFT hand for the glove and snap, NOT his RIGHT!
GAH! Sorry.... couldn't help myself.
#203
@Li3n
@Li3n
#204
phil
phil
Just saw it last night. Trying to catch up on the thread
*Time travel is weird. I feel like they should have really used the stones more as they collected them to help show that they were smoothing out the timeline and not creating parallel timelines.
*Professor Hulk was cool. I like how Banner was always really nervous and kinda panicking all the time but Prof. Hulk was super positive
* Girl shot was fine. Felt like these were just the people who happened to be there to me.
*Sam will be a good Cap. At least he won't try to Box Thanos aka the guy who punched out the hulk. Jesus what a wack ass argument. Cap is one of the few heroes not defined by his powers. You gotta talk to fish to be Aquaman, you gotta stick to walls to be Spiderman but to be Captain America all you really need to do is b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶o̶r̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶c̶i̶t̶i̶z̶e̶n̶s̶ stand up for America's values.
*Starlord ain't got shit for powers. He's just a dude in space and he's not even that good at doing that.
*Time travel is weird. I feel like they should have really used the stones more as they collected them to help show that they were smoothing out the timeline and not creating parallel timelines.
*Professor Hulk was cool. I like how Banner was always really nervous and kinda panicking all the time but Prof. Hulk was super positive
* Girl shot was fine. Felt like these were just the people who happened to be there to me.
*Sam will be a good Cap. At least he won't try to Box Thanos aka the guy who punched out the hulk. Jesus what a wack ass argument. Cap is one of the few heroes not defined by his powers. You gotta talk to fish to be Aquaman, you gotta stick to walls to be Spiderman but to be Captain America all you really need to do is b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶o̶r̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶c̶i̶t̶i̶z̶e̶n̶s̶ stand up for America's values.
*Starlord ain't got shit for powers. He's just a dude in space and he's not even that good at doing that.
#205
figmentPez
figmentPez
They did create alternate timelines, though.*Time travel is weird. I feel like they should have really used the stones more as they collected them to help show that they were smoothing out the timeline and not creating parallel timelines.
#206
phil
phil
Oh! Maybe it's ok because all the other timelines get fucked like how Dr. Strange saw.
#207
@Li3n
@Li3n
Since there's infinite timelines, we'd likely get one where Loki steal the Cube and they still beat Thanos (and 14 million others where they don't).Oh! Maybe it's ok because all the other timelines get fucked like how Dr. Strange saw.
#208
figmentPez
figmentPez
I wonder if Marvel could pull of a full on "What If?" series.
#210
jwhouk
jwhouk
All right, I think I can share this. I have not seen A:E (nor any of the other MCU films, TBH), but what I've heard about Endgame has made me realize why I really stopped following Marvel Comics back in the 1990's.
The way Marvel deals with multiverses and Alternate Timelines makes DC's Crisis on Alternate Earths look positively sane by comparison. I just recall all the things with the X-Men and how things got so out of hand you forgot what the team looked like this month, and I suddenly realized that this was exactly what they were doing in the MCU.
The more you mess with timelines, the more unwatchable/unreadable a universe becomes. The only fictional franchise where it's worked is the one that intentionally hand-waves it away with a flick of a sonic screwdriver and a whirr of the TARDIS. Not even Star Trek does it well (oh, hai, Discovery!).
Marvel Comics FUBAR'ed the comics up with alternate universes and timelines. Doing that to resolve the Ultimate Bad Ending issue makes it head-bangingly frustrating.
Just my $0.02.
P.S. - Not planning on watching A:E, though I might rent the original Iron Man just to see Downey at the beginning of this long ride.
The way Marvel deals with multiverses and Alternate Timelines makes DC's Crisis on Alternate Earths look positively sane by comparison. I just recall all the things with the X-Men and how things got so out of hand you forgot what the team looked like this month, and I suddenly realized that this was exactly what they were doing in the MCU.
The more you mess with timelines, the more unwatchable/unreadable a universe becomes. The only fictional franchise where it's worked is the one that intentionally hand-waves it away with a flick of a sonic screwdriver and a whirr of the TARDIS. Not even Star Trek does it well (oh, hai, Discovery!).
Marvel Comics FUBAR'ed the comics up with alternate universes and timelines. Doing that to resolve the Ultimate Bad Ending issue makes it head-bangingly frustrating.
Just my $0.02.
P.S. - Not planning on watching A:E, though I might rent the original Iron Man just to see Downey at the beginning of this long ride.
#211
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
They really don't do any of that until this final movie, and even then only a littleAll right, I think I can share this. I have not seen A:E (nor any of the other MCU films, TBH), but what I've heard about Endgame has made me realize why I really stopped following Marvel Comics back in the 1990's.
The way Marvel deals with multiverses and Alternate Timelines makes DC's Crisis on Alternate Earths look positively sane by comparison. I just recall all the things with the X-Men and how things got so out of hand you forgot what the team looked like this month, and I suddenly realized that this was exactly what they were doing in the MCU.
The more you mess with timelines, the more unwatchable/unreadable a universe becomes. The only fictional franchise where it's worked is the one that intentionally hand-waves it away with a flick of a sonic screwdriver and a whirr of the TARDIS. Not even Star Trek does it well (oh, hai, Discovery!).
Marvel Comics FUBAR'ed the comics up with alternate universes and timelines. Doing that to resolve the Ultimate Bad Ending issue makes it head-bangingly frustrating.
Just my $0.02.
P.S. - Not planning on watching A:E, though I might rent the original Iron Man just to see Downey at the beginning of this long ride.
#212
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
It's still up in the air if there really were alternate timeliness. The screenwriters and the directors have already contradicted each other on how the time travel worked and whether time lines spun off from it.
The new spider man movie hints a possible multiverse but don't forget Mysterio is in it. Could all be a huge illusion. We will have to wait and see how much they go with multiverse arcs.
The new spider man movie hints a possible multiverse but don't forget Mysterio is in it. Could all be a huge illusion. We will have to wait and see how much they go with multiverse arcs.
#213
ScytheRexx
I really enjoy this series.
Seriously though, if Tony died due to a burst of gamma radiation, that makes his death even more depressing for me. He might as well have already been dead when he snapped, because the radiation poisoning would have meant his mind was lost and his body was merely catching up.
ScytheRexx
I really enjoy this series.
Seriously though, if Tony died due to a burst of gamma radiation, that makes his death even more depressing for me. He might as well have already been dead when he snapped, because the radiation poisoning would have meant his mind was lost and his body was merely catching up.
#214
Gruebeard
Gruebeard
For the first little bit of the movie I had to keep telling myself not to care that Thanos's whole plan sounded pointless.
I mean, Earth's human population doubles rather rapidly. We'd be back to pre-Snap numbers in something like fifty years, maybe a whole lot faster because we have the physical infrastructure already in place to double, and there's bound to be a baby boom in the wake of the devastation . . . and then of course, Earth was as fucked up back when our population was half the size it is now. How can Thanos think he accomplished anything useful?
So, I ignored that question and just enjoyed the movie.
I mean, Earth's human population doubles rather rapidly. We'd be back to pre-Snap numbers in something like fifty years, maybe a whole lot faster because we have the physical infrastructure already in place to double, and there's bound to be a baby boom in the wake of the devastation . . . and then of course, Earth was as fucked up back when our population was half the size it is now. How can Thanos think he accomplished anything useful?
So, I ignored that question and just enjoyed the movie.
#215
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
This might be a hot take, but Thanos never cared if his plan really worked. He gave away what he really cared about when the others confronted him at the start of the climax, when he said how he'd do it differently. "A grateful universe." He wants to be right, therefore he is, and what bothers him is that everyone doesn't recognize it.For the first little bit of the movie I had to keep telling myself not to care that Thanos's whole plan sounded pointless.
I mean, Earth's human population doubles rather rapidly. We'd be back to pre-Snap numbers in something like fifty years, maybe a whole lot faster because we have the physical infrastructure already in place to double, and there's bound to be a baby boom in the wake of the devastation . . . and then of course, Earth was as fucked up back when our population was half the size it is now. How can Thanos think he accomplished anything useful?
So, I ignored that question and just enjoyed the movie.
#216
figmentPez
He is basically a religious extremist. He doesn't need actual reasoning, he's got passion/zeal/fervor/whatever.
figmentPez
<Insert political / religious joke here>How can Thanos think he accomplished anything useful?
He is basically a religious extremist. He doesn't need actual reasoning, he's got passion/zeal/fervor/whatever.
#217
Gruebeard
Gruebeard
Both those answers are good enough for me. As I said, I just forced myself to ignore the question. I also readily ignored any question that came up about the time travel stuff because, yeah, you know.
#218
Tinwhistler
(I just did a look up. Removing half the earth's population takes us back to about 1970. Not really all that big of a change, honestly)
Tinwhistler
In the comics, Thanos was trying to impress Lady Death, which makes a lot more sense than the movie reasoning.For the first little bit of the movie I had to keep telling myself not to care that Thanos's whole plan sounded pointless.
I mean, Earth's human population doubles rather rapidly. We'd be back to pre-Snap numbers in something like fifty years, maybe a whole lot faster because we have the physical infrastructure already in place to double, and there's bound to be a baby boom in the wake of the devastation . . . and then of course, Earth was as fucked up back when our population was half the size it is now. How can Thanos think he accomplished anything useful?
So, I ignored that question and just enjoyed the movie.
(I just did a look up. Removing half the earth's population takes us back to about 1970. Not really all that big of a change, honestly)
#219
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Definitely the right call when even the directors and writers can't agree on how it worked.I also readily ignored any question that came up about the time travel stuff because, yeah, you know.
#220
figmentPez
figmentPez
#221
ScytheRexx
ScytheRexx
It seems more then just three were in New York at once. That city just attracts them I guess!
#222
Sparhawk
Sparhawk
That would explain how they could afford such large apartments in NYC.
#223
GasBandit
GasBandit
#224
Dave
Dave
Not sure the last one matches the picture that Cap would give.
#225
Dave
Dave
#226
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
Hail HydraNot sure the last one matches the picture that Cap would give.
#227
Dave
Dave
#228
jwhouk
jwhouk
#229
GasBandit
Ok, NOW I feel old.
GasBandit
Ok, NOW I feel old.
#230
Bubble181
Bubble181
OK, I know the song and the clip, but really, a reference to a single sentence in a 20-something year old song, that, even explained, seems at most tangential? Yeah, sorry, didn't catch that
#231
GasBandit
but I guarantee you, 99% of Americans who were cognizant in the 80s and had access to the radio know every word and note to that song, whether they want to or not.
GasBandit
40 year old song, actuallyOK, I know the song and the clip, but really, a reference to a single sentence in a 20-something year old song, that, even explained, seems at most tangential? Yeah, sorry, didn't catch that
but I guarantee you, 99% of Americans who were cognizant in the 80s and had access to the radio know every word and note to that song, whether they want to or not.
#232
Bubble181
LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU NOT THAT OLD LALALA
Bubble181
Can't be, I'm not that old.40 year old song
LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU NOT THAT OLD LALALA
#233
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
The cognizant part locks me out; I hadn't even started school when the 80s ended. :/
#234
figmentPez
figmentPez
Nope, not I. I'd never even seen the music video before now, and I certainly didn't remember it having any sort of story in the song.40 year old song, actually
#235
GasBandit
GasBandit
Well, 1% of the population still leaves out a couple million, after all.Nope, not I. I'd never even seen the music video before now, and I certainly didn't remember it having any sort of story in the song.
#236
Celt Z
Celt Z
I was just listening to that song a few minutes ago!
I am also old.
I am also old.
#237
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
I've heard the song, too!
I can be old!
I'm trying, one minute at a time.
I can be old!
I'm trying, one minute at a time.
#238
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
You'll get there!I can be old!
I'm trying, one minute at a time.
--Patrick
#239
Tinwhistler
Tinwhistler
Funny thing: Part of that flute riff is the girl scouts 'kookabura' song.40 year old song, actually
#240
GasBandit
wrote bought the rights to Kookaburra know, or he might sue the girl scouts for 40 years worth of royalties.
GasBandit
Careful, don't let the jagoff whoFunny thing: Part of that flute riff is the girl scouts 'kookabura' song.
#241
Tinwhistler
When I was first learning tinwhistle, I wanted some easy to digest music, so my spouse gave me some girl scout songs to learn. I got to the Kookaburra song and went "heeeeey..."
Tinwhistler
Wow, I didn't know any of that. That's rough.Careful, don't let the jagoff whowrotebought the rights to Kookaburra know, or he might sue the girl scouts for 40 years worth of royalties.
When I was first learning tinwhistle, I wanted some easy to digest music, so my spouse gave me some girl scout songs to learn. I got to the Kookaburra song and went "heeeeey..."
#242
GasBandit
TLDR for people who didn't read the article:
The lady who wrote it in the 1930s basically let anybody and everybody use it who wanted, without fee or even notice, apparently.
That didn't stop a fuckstick sleazebag record label from buying it from her estate when she died in 1988 (for the whopping price of $6100) and sit on it until 2007, then try to sue Men at Work for 60% of all the money they ever made from the song. The stress from the lawsuit contributed to the death of the band's drummer and the singer's father, and racked up 4.5 million dollars in legal fees. The courts eventually decided the label was owed about $100,000 (5% of the royalties from 2003 forward, as apparently there's a statute of limitations on this sort of thing in Australia).
GasBandit
You and basically anybody in Australia who learned the Recorder, or similar woodwind.Wow, I didn't know any of that. That's rough.
When I was first learning tinwhistle, I wanted some easy to digest music, so my spouse gave me some girl scout songs to learn. I got to the Kookaburra song and went "heeeeey..."
TLDR for people who didn't read the article:
The lady who wrote it in the 1930s basically let anybody and everybody use it who wanted, without fee or even notice, apparently.
That didn't stop a fuckstick sleazebag record label from buying it from her estate when she died in 1988 (for the whopping price of $6100) and sit on it until 2007, then try to sue Men at Work for 60% of all the money they ever made from the song. The stress from the lawsuit contributed to the death of the band's drummer and the singer's father, and racked up 4.5 million dollars in legal fees. The courts eventually decided the label was owed about $100,000 (5% of the royalties from 2003 forward, as apparently there's a statute of limitations on this sort of thing in Australia).
#243
GasBandit
GasBandit
#244
GasBandit
GasBandit
Reviews of the MCU according to a train enthusiast.
#245
PatrThom
PatrThom
Aww. I saw a GasBandit post in this thread and thought it was going to be about the Thanos Bikini.
...yes it's exactly what it sounds like, and no you shouldn't probably click on it if you're at work or possibly if you are currently drinking anything.
--Patrick
...yes it's exactly what it sounds like, and no you shouldn't probably click on it if you're at work or possibly if you are currently drinking anything.
--Patrick
#246
Far
I don't know what I expected but it was not that.
Far
No. I dispute that....yes it's exactly what it sounds like,
I don't know what I expected but it was not that.
#247
figmentPez
figmentPez
I was expecting something more like this:No. I dispute that.
I don't know what I expected but it was not that.
#248
Tinwhistler
Tinwhistler
#249
PatrThom
PatrThom
^ v
.L.
<=>
|
=|=
--Patrick
.L.
<=>
|
=|=
--Patrick
#250
Tiger Tsang
Tiger Tsang
National Treasure, this guy . . .
#251
Dave
Dave
What an annoying video.
#252
figmentPez
figmentPez