Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

You think the GOP aren't nazis and that it's all just hyperbole? Reports are that Arizona has started buying ingredients to start executing prisoners by gas chamber. The ingredients make Zyklon B.
I honestly still don't understand why those in favor of the death penalty go through such lengths with triple injections, gas, etc.
I mean, I'm completely opposed to the death penalty in all but the most extreme cases (treason/espionage in times of war for example - I do NOT mean "really bad" killers), but if you're going to kill people anywya, there's two options: you want it to be humane (beause you're a somewhat decent human being) or you want them to suffer (because it's all about vengeance and retribution and not about protecting society).
In the first case, a guillotine is cheap, efficient, quick, and quite nearly painless.
In the second case, there are plenty of worse ways that are cheaper, from burning alive over letting them be tortured to death by other inmates to starving.
 

Dave

Staff member
The problem with the death penalty in the US is that it's very much slanted against minorities and African Americans specifically. 75% of people sentenced with the death penalty had white victims. Meanwhile, black victims made up half of the homicides.

Since 1977, 185 inmates have been exonerated and cleared of all charges after being put on death row. And only then because of groups or individuals who go out of their way to right a wrong. Who knows how many innocent people were put to death. And of that 185, 99 were black. Check out that second link and look at the map of wrongly convicted people. Note that the VAST majority are in the south and right-leaning areas.

The death penalty is costly and just wrong.
 
Guillotines are probably too messy for many people's tastes. Basically, they want executions to be quick, bloodless, painless, etc. They want a sanitized version of death.

I think if they had avada kedavra available to them, they'd consider it the ideal option. Just a couple of words, and the guy drops dead. No muss, no fuss.
 
Guillotines are probably too messy for many people's tastes. Basically, they want executions to be quick, bloodless, painless, etc. They want a sanitized version of death.

I think if they had avada kedavra available to them, they'd consider it the ideal option. Just a couple of words, and the guy drops dead. No muss, no fuss.
Actually, I’m going to disagree with you and agree with @Bubble181. There are far more painless ways to execute someone than gas chambers or lethal injections. Hell, taking someone out back and shooting them in the head would end things quickly (and cheaply) without much suffering on the part of the condemned. But instead they insist on using chemicals that cause seizures, pain, asphyxiation, and other gruesome experiences before finally killing the person. It’s insane, barbaric (IMO), and unfair (in all the ways @Dave pointed out).
 
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Actually, I’m going to disagree with you and agree with @Bubble181. There are far more painless ways to execute someone than gas chambers or lethal injections. Hell, taking someone out back and shooting them in the head would end things quickly (and cheaply) without much suffering on the part of the condemned. But instead they insist on using chemicals that cause seizures, pain, asphyxiation, and other gruesome experiences before finally killing the person. It’s insane, barbaric (imo), and unfair (in all the ways @Dave pointed out).
Bloodless is the key word against the firing squad. I think @bhamv3 has it close to right. People want their vengeance to be clean, even if it isn't quick or painless.
 
The last few years have made me really question some things.

I have always supported freedom of speech, the government shouldn't be able to stop someone from speaking out and all that.

However, I ain't gonna lie, I am getting absolutely sick of people using freedom of speech is bad faith every which way.

Sydney Powell gets stuck in a huge lawsuit? Just claim no one reasonable would believe what she says, and then go to a QAnon convention saying the same bullshit you always say about Trump getting reinstated by August, "The Kraken", blah blah blah.

Michael Flynn at the same convention literally says we should have a Myanmar style coup? "That was taken out of context."

MTG spouts off yet another diatribe about how the Green New Deal is a socialist scheme, Ted Cruz screams about cancel culture for the hundredth time from his million follower social media pages, blah blah blah.

Our freedoms can only survive if we do stuff in good faith, but we have an entire group of people that have put the win above anything else, and thus they will say the most assanine bullshit imaginable to keep those idiots engaged, and what can we do about it? Consequences don't seem to exist when half the country has bought into the grift and wants the catch phrases more then the substance. It's like how every mobile ad for games these days have nothing to do with the game anymore, they are all fake tower fight games or some shit and false advertising does not exist as a concept anymore, the same goes for pretty much everyone from politicians to white supremacists' just rebranding themselves. There is no more good faith, it's all smoke.

I feel like we are screwed.
 
Well, there are limits to how long that's a good idea, but these days in the USA, I'm pretty sure going too far to the left isn't really possible anymore.
 
Perhaps I am getting off topic, but I wanted to share with you all a sample of what my school is like. The middle school I teach at just opened up a new elective option for 8th graders next year. In fact the school is giving it a special spotlight via email to all families.
  • Introduction to Ethnic Studies: This course is designed to give 8th graders an introduction to themes of Identity, History and Movement, Systems of Power, and Social Movements and Equity as they begin to analyze and answer the essential questions of 1) How has race and ethnicity been constructed in the United States, and how have they changed over time? and 2) How do race and ethnicity continue to shape the United States and contemporary issues? Students will engage in discussions that will enable them to develop their critical inquiry and thinking skills as they read and listen about the different perspectives and experiences of people of color in America from the past to present as they connect to the four major themes. Students will also engage in self-reflection as they learn and share their narrative to help understand and see shared and unique experiences.
(I’m actually rather proud that one of my colleagues is teaching this!)
 
Our freedoms can only survive if we do stuff in good faith, but we have an entire group of people that have put the win above anything else, and thus they will say the most assanine bullshit imaginable to keep those idiots engaged, and what can we do about it? Consequences don't seem to exist when half the country has bought into the grift and wants the catch phrases more then the substance
My guess is that this is simply because nobody is willing to make an example of these people.

The "idiots" you mention are willing to put people up against a wall and gun them down because they know the best way to guarantee a victory for their side is to literally (yes, literally literally) eliminate their competition. Permanently. And every death would be celebrated as a victory because it would mean one less opponent. To paraphrase the meme, "Don't care, reduced their numbers." But since wholesale murder is illegal (and would attract too much public attention), they are turning instead to suppression and intimidation (and small-scale murder), because eliminating the competition's ability to have any influence is an effective proxy for actually murdering them en masse. They are pursuing a holy war where they will justify anything among themselves so long as it achieves their goal.

The "good faith" people are not as blindly, antisocially ruthless, and so the majority of the attrition really only happens to the one side. And without an outside influence (like Coronavirus or some other act of God) to independently neuter the "idiots" and level the playing field, their current salami attack will inevitably push the percentages to the point where they finally can't help but win. How can you negotiate a peaceful victory over the idiots when their strategy is literally "Eliminate all our opposition until we're the only ones left?"

The way things are headed right now, I really don’t see this ending any way other than some kind of purge, bloody or otherwise.

—Patrick
 
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I'm pretty sure "being civil" hasn't been on the curriculum anywhere anymore in the past 20 years. Or literally 90% of the population has been skipping that class.
Being "civil" and civics aren't the same thing, at least not as it's understood here. Civics academically in America is about what it means to be a citizen
 
I believe that's religion and ethic class. Also maybe history and geography.
ethics, rhetoric, history,,communication, philosophy, religion....Plenty of places to talk about it, in many ways.

Just shouting louder and being more obstructive is more effective these days, apparently, so....eh.
 
End of the day, as an older guy, I would just really like Civics to be put back in the mandatory curriculum.
The fundamental problem with "Civics" courses in school is that they get mandated at the state level, so you might spend one or two years learning state history instead of say... World History, World Religion, or even just doing a deeper dive into parts of American History we really don't teach, like stuff going on at home during WW2 or during the 80's/90's. It's kind of hard for Texas to justify spending so much time on Texas history (you know... all 200+ years of it) when they aren't teaching kids about Tulsa or Selma, let alone the actual causes of WW2 internment camps.

But that would require Conservatives to stop sanitizing history out of fear that their kids will get some perspective.
 
Is it… is it not in the curriculum where you are? I’m confused.
No, it isn't in general. You have some bastardized verion of 'Social Studies', but pretty much post Reagan, Civics got purged from most of the American curriculum. You can't have folks wanting to know about the struggles to have a middle class lifestyle or the all the efforts, politically, they went through.
 
Behind a paywall. :(
You Should Learn the Truth About the Tulsa Race Massacre
June 4, 2021
By Tom Hanks


I consider myself a lay historian who talks way too much at dinner parties, leading with questions like, "Do you know that the Erie Canal is the reason Manhattan became the economic center of America?" Some of the work I do is making historically based entertainment. Did you know our second president once defended in court British soldiers who fired on and killed colonial Bostonians – and got most of them off?

By my recollection, four years of my education included studying American history. Fifth and eighth grades, two semesters in high school, three quarters at a community college. Since then, I've read history for pleasure and watched documentary films as a first option. Many of those works and those textbooks were about white people and white history. The few Black figures – Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. – were those who accomplished much in spite of slavery, segregation and institutional injustices in American society.

But for all my study, I never read a page of any school history book about how, in 1921, a mob of white people burned down a place called Black Wall Street, killed as many as 300 of its Black citizens and displaced thousands of Black Americans who lived in Tulsa, Okla.

My experience was common: History was mostly written by white people about white people like me, while the history of Black people – including the horrors of Tulsa – was too often left out. Until relatively recently, the entertainment industry, which helps shape what is history and what is forgotten, did the same. That includes projects of mine. I knew about the attack on Fort Sumter, Custer's last stand and Pearl Harbor but did not know of the Tulsa massacre until last year, thanks to an article in The New York Times.

Instead, in my history classes, I learned that Britain's Stamp Act helped lead to the Boston Tea Party, that "we" were a free people because the Declaration of Independence said "all men are created equal." That the Whiskey Rebellion started over a tax on whiskey. That the Articles of Confederation and the Alien and Sedition Acts were cockeyed. Rightfully, Sacco and Vanzetti, Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party and the Wright Brothers had their time in my classes. Our textbooks told of the Louisiana Purchase; the Johnstown, Pa., flood; the great San Francisco earthquake; and George Washington Carver's development of hundreds of products from the common goober.

But Tulsa was never more than a city on the prairie. The Oklahoma Land Rush got some paragraphs in one of those school years, but the 1921 burning out of the Black population that lived there was never mentioned. Nor, I have learned since, was anti-Black violence on large and small scales, especially between the end of Reconstruction and the victories of the civil rights movement; there was nothing on the Slocum massacre of Black residents in Texas by an all-white mob in 1910 or the Red Summer of white supremacist terrorism in 1919. Many students like me were told that the lynching of Black Americans was tragic but not that these public murders were commonplace and often lauded by local papers and law enforcement.

For a white kid living in the white neighborhoods of Oakland, Calif., my city in the 1960s and '70s looked integrated and diverse but often felt tense and polarized, as was evident on many an AC Transit bus. The division between white America and Black America seemed to be as solid as any international boundary even in one of the most integrated cities in the nation. Bret Harte Junior High and Skyline High School had Asian, Latino and Black students, but those schools were mostly white. This did not seem to be the case in the other public high schools in town.

We had lessons on the Emancipation Proclamation, the Ku Klux Klan, Rosa Parks's daring heroism and her common decency and even the death of Crispus Attucks in the Boston Massacre. Parts of American cities had been aflame at points since the Watts riots in 1965, and Oakland was the home of the Black Panthers and the Vietnam War-era draftee induction center, so history was playing out before our very eyes, in our hometown. The issues were myriad, the solutions theoretical, the lessons few, the headlines continuous.

The truth about Tulsa, and the repeated violence by some white Americans against Black Americans, was systematically ignored, perhaps because it was regarded as too honest, too painful a lesson for our young white ears. So, our predominantly white schools didn't teach it, our mass appeal works of historical fiction didn't enlighten us, and my chosen industry didn't take on the subject in films and shows until recently. It seems white educators and school administrators (if they even knew of the Tulsa massacre, for some surely did not) omitted the volatile subject for the sake of the status quo, placing white feelings over Black experience – literally Black lives in this case.

How different would perspectives be had we all been taught about Tulsa in 1921, even as early as the fifth grade? Today, I find the omission tragic, an opportunity missed, a teachable moment squandered. When people hear about systemic racism in America, just the use of those words draws the ire of those white people who insist that since July 4, 1776, we have all been free, we were all created equally, that any American can become president and catch a cab in Midtown Manhattan no matter the color of our skin, that, yes, American progress toward justice for all can be slow but remains relentless. Tell that to the century-old survivors of Tulsa and their offspring. And teach the truth to the white descendants of those in the mob that destroyed Black Wall Street.

Today, I think historically based fiction entertainment must portray the burden of racism in our nation for the sake of the art form's claims to verisimilitude and authenticity. Until recently, the Tulsa Race Massacre was not seen in movies and TV shows. Thanks to several projects currently streaming, like "Watchmen" and "Lovecraft Country," this is no longer the case. Like other historical documents that map our cultural DNA, they will reflect who we really are and help determine what is our full history, what we must remember.

Should our schools now teach the truth about Tulsa? Yes, and they should also stop the battle to whitewash curriculums to avoid discomfort for students. America's history is messy but knowing that makes us a wiser and stronger people. 1921 is the truth, a portal to our shared, paradoxical history. An American Black Wall Street was not allowed to exist, was burned to ashes; more than 20 years later, World War II was won despite institutionalized racial segregation; more than 20 years after that, the Apollo missions put 12 men on the moon while others were struggling to vote, and the publishing of the Pentagon Papers showed the extent of our elected officials' willingness to systemically lie to us. Each of these lessons chronicles our quest to live up to the promise of our land, to tell truths that, in America, are meant to be held as self-evident.

© 2021 The New York Times Company
Mr. Hanks is an actor and filmmaker whose projects include historical works like "Band of Brothers," "The Pacific" and "John Adams" and documentaries about America from the 1960s to the 2000s.
 
No, it isn't in general. You have some bastardized verion of 'Social Studies', but pretty much post Reagan, Civics got purged from most of the American curriculum. You can't have folks wanting to know about the struggles to have a middle class lifestyle or the all the efforts, politically, they went through.
I don’t want to be the attention-seeking asshole who says “But I’m special!” and derail this thread further with stories about my school. I’ll just say things are different here from what y’all have described, and I did not fully appreciate that until now.
 
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