Whiner. :angry:
What language should I learn?
- Thread starter strawman
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Motherfucker! German kicked my ass with 4. Ancient Greek made me cry with 5. But 15??[/QUOTE]
Hey, it's easy when you grow up listening to the language. I still have trouble with your freaky English prepositions and gender-apartheid personal pronouns
Basically, Finnish uses cases instead of prepositions. Take a gander in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language_noun_cases[/QUOTE]
That's crazy. At least the Germans keep it mostly grammatical!
I can get what you mean about growing up with it, though. My heart breaks to children who learn creole or pidgin languages first. When it comes time to learn anything else, there's nowhere to go but up (in difficulty).
North_Ranger
Staff member
OY! It is grammatical. But just like any human system, there's variations and exceptions. Just think about the pain us non-native English speakers have to go through, gettin' all your silly irregular verbs in order
Also, creole languages tend to be quite settled. It's actually the way linguists make the distinction between a pidgin and a creole: a pidgin is a kind of a tool of necessity that one uses in a limited set of situations. BUT when a child grows up speaking a pidgin as their first language - being a native speaker of it, therefore - then it is called a creole. And when one uses a creole as one's first language in daily use, the field of linguistic expression grows and adapts, incorporating fields one could not discuss in the original pidgin. Tok Pisin (literally 'talk pidgin') is one such language. 1-2 million native speakers, and one of the three official languages of Papua New Guinea.
Linguistics 101, part of my basic studies
What I meant was they use it pretty much expressly for ... I'm not sure what to call it. English uses word order to express Object, Subject, etc. German uses case. Apparently so does Finnish, but then you guys pile a whole bunch of other stuff on top as well!OY! It is grammatical. But just like any human system, there's variations and exceptions. Just think about the pain us non-native English speakers have to go through, gettin' all your silly irregular verbs in order
Good to know. All I'm sure of is that I spent 2 weeks in Haiti, and was able to communicate fairly effectively by day four. Haitian Creole was unbelievably simple.Also, creole languages tend to be quite settled. It's actually the way linguists make the distinction between a pidgin and a creole: a pidgin is a kind of a tool of necessity that one uses in a limited set of situations. BUT when a child grows up speaking a pidgin as their first language - being a native speaker of it, therefore - then it is called a creole. And when one uses a creole as one's first language in daily use, the field of linguistic expression grows and adapts, incorporating fields one could not discuss in the original pidgin. Tok Pisin (literally 'talk pidgin') is one such language. 1-2 million native speakers, and one of the three official languages of Papua New Guinea.
Linguistics 101, part of my basic studies
North_Ranger
Staff member
No, we just use the cases to express a wide variety of relationships between the subject and the object. Well... not really any more than you do, I suppose. But yes, instead of separate words or subordinate clauses, Finnish carries a lot of meaning depending on the case of the word.
Y
Yoink
I´m curious .. is german a difficult language to learn for a native english-speaker?
The longer I live, the more I realize that language is flipping retarded.
---------- Post added at 11:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------
The second hardest part for me was remembering vocab, which is more of a 'my brain is stupid, and I don't always put the effort required into my schooling' thing. The worst part was the problem with case, (mentioned a few posts up) but most of my issue was that I didn't fully understand sentence structure in English.
The biggest problem you're going to have if you try to learn any new language is coming to terms with the fact that you don't understand your own. If you're not confident, I would encourage you to study English structure in depth for a short time to make sure you have it, before you get hardcore into German.
I don't mean like, hardcore study. A few nights reviewing where the subject, object, etc. are, and you should be good.
---------- Post added at 11:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------
I don't know a lot of German, but I have a year and a half or university German in me, and I didn't find it impossible.
The second hardest part for me was remembering vocab, which is more of a 'my brain is stupid, and I don't always put the effort required into my schooling' thing. The worst part was the problem with case, (mentioned a few posts up) but most of my issue was that I didn't fully understand sentence structure in English.
The biggest problem you're going to have if you try to learn any new language is coming to terms with the fact that you don't understand your own. If you're not confident, I would encourage you to study English structure in depth for a short time to make sure you have it, before you get hardcore into German.
I don't mean like, hardcore study. A few nights reviewing where the subject, object, etc. are, and you should be good.
I'd suggest spanish, as that's the language spoken in most of the countries closer to yours. It'll also make for really fun conversations: stoned mex, drunk spaniard & the newbie american.
I have a sudden urge to write up a sitcom.
Don't neglect English. If your English vocabulary is comprehensive enough, you can still figure out what's going on in a German or Dutch conversation even though you don't know the words themselves.
Likewise, when I was still fluent in Spanish (fluent enough to pun), I could hop over to Portugal and still make myself well enough understood.
Right now, I would say Spanish. I can't make a better judgement as to what suits you best without knowing more about you, sorry.
--Patrick
Likewise, when I was still fluent in Spanish (fluent enough to pun), I could hop over to Portugal and still make myself well enough understood.
Right now, I would say Spanish. I can't make a better judgement as to what suits you best without knowing more about you, sorry.
--Patrick
C
Chazwozel
Nope. It's actually, probably the easiest foreign language to learn for an native English speaker.
T
ThatNickGuy
Two pages and not a single suggestion for Klingon?
For SHAME.
For SHAME.
This is where we differ. I was proud of us.
French? How is French relevant today? It's useful for seduction, but it's hardly useful for business, which is why he wants to learn a second language.[/QUOTE]
Srsly? French is the most widely-spoken foreign language in the world after English and the only other language natively spoken on five continents. When I was traveling in Europe, if I had to deal with someone who didn't speak English, they almost always spoke at least some French--and they weren't always just Europeans. I would say that French is immensely useful, even more so than Spanish on an international scale.
I'm sorry Droll, but I think you have your figures wrong. French is NOWHERE near the most widely-spoken foreign language, not even after English.
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/most_spoken_languages.htm
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/most_spoken_languages.htm
I object to that list combining all of the Chinese Dialects, when they are all quite different. It is interesting that Hindi beats English as a native language though.
Well, of course when China and India both have 1 billion plus people, more people will speak those languages from those countries. When I said "widely," I meant in terms of this statistic:
English
Official language in 83 countries/regions (ISO), spoken in 105 other countries (E).
French
Official language in 40 countries (ISO), spoken in 54 countries (E)
Spanish
Official language in 21 countries (ISO), spoken in 44 countries (E)
Because, honestly, outside of the Chinese in China and the Indians in India, and perhaps those who have emigrated and their children, you don't have a lot of people learning to speak those languages. It'll be useful to learn if you plan on doing business with these countries, but knowing Mandarin isn't very useful on a global scale when you aren't dealing with the Chinese. However, it's very easy to find people who aren't American who speak English and those who aren't French that speak French.
I say you learn Sign Language, but that's just me
North_Ranger
Staff member
The thing is, even that's not universal. Your American Sign Language is different from what they use in, say, the UK or France. Or Finland, for that matter.
Well, of course when China and India both have 1 billion plus people, more people will speak those languages from those countries. When I said "widely," I meant in terms of this statistic:
English
Official language in 83 countries/regions (ISO), spoken in 105 other countries (E).
French
Official language in 40 countries (ISO), spoken in 54 countries (E)
Spanish
Official language in 21 countries (ISO), spoken in 44 countries (E)
Because, honestly, outside of the Chinese in China and the Indians in India, and perhaps those who have emigrated and their children, you don't have a lot of people learning to speak those languages. It'll be useful to learn if you plan on doing business with these countries, but knowing Mandarin isn't very useful on a global scale when you aren't dealing with the Chinese. However, it's very easy to find people who aren't American who speak English and those who aren't French that speak French.[/QUOTE]
Who are you going to listen? The weird green thing wearing a funny hat or the girl looking sexy at the camera (wearing a funny hat)?
K
Kitty Sinatra
Learn Portuguese. Trawl Rio for hawt chicks with JCM.
Well, of course when China and India both have 1 billion plus people, more people will speak those languages from those countries. When I said "widely," I meant in terms of this statistic:
English
Official language in 83 countries/regions (ISO), spoken in 105 other countries (E).
French
Official language in 40 countries (ISO), spoken in 54 countries (E)
Spanish
Official language in 21 countries (ISO), spoken in 44 countries (E)
Because, honestly, outside of the Chinese in China and the Indians in India, and perhaps those who have emigrated and their children, you don't have a lot of people learning to speak those languages. It'll be useful to learn if you plan on doing business with these countries, but knowing Mandarin isn't very useful on a global scale when you aren't dealing with the Chinese. However, it's very easy to find people who aren't American who speak English and those who aren't French that speak French.[/QUOTE]
Not entirely true. Chinese is useful throughout all of Asia--. It's a massive regional language and on the fast track to being global due to China's increasing political and economic influence.
C
crono1224
I have tried to learn Japanese a couple times, took a class at a college and a little bit of rosetta stone, the problem I think I am encountering is immersion or day to day usage. And without perhaps consistent usage its hard to remeber it all. I dunno if there is a great way of getting around that, but ya.
The thing is, even that's not universal. Your American Sign Language is different from what they use in, say, the UK or France. Or Finland, for that matter.[/QUOTE]
I believe there are two types of SL American and then there's the universal sign language (I think) just don't learn American, the difference with it is the slang that the ASL uses
J
JCM
Well, of course when China and India both have 1 billion plus people, more people will speak those languages from those countries. When I said "widely," I meant in terms of this statistic:
English
Official language in 83 countries/regions (ISO), spoken in 105 other countries (E).
French
Official language in 40 countries (ISO), spoken in 54 countries (E)
Spanish
Official language in 21 countries (ISO), spoken in 44 countries (E)
Because, honestly, outside of the Chinese in China and the Indians in India, and perhaps those who have emigrated and their children, you don't have a lot of people learning to speak those languages. It'll be useful to learn if you plan on doing business with these countries, but knowing Mandarin isn't very useful on a global scale when you aren't dealing with the Chinese. However, it's very easy to find people who aren't American who speak English and those who aren't French that speak French.[/QUOTE]
Not entirely true. Chinese is useful throughout all of Asia--. It's a massive regional language and on the fast track to being global due to China's increasing political and economic influence.[/QUOTE]This.
I mentioned French because every damn country I visited, it was the third or fourth language in terms of number of language schools and people studying it, behind English and Spanish.
Its also the language Im taking up now, my 7th.
One could say that its the third most important language, if you dont factor in Arabic (due to its geographical limitation) and Chinese (most speakers are Chinese, anyway).
There's also Portuguese, which is popular, but skip it and o for Spanish, and you'll survive in Portuguese-speaking countries if you speak slowly.
W
wana10
this, i look forwards to summer break but at the same time i dread it, because no matter how much i try to speak, write, or otherwise use japanese during the summer i always spend the last week before school trying to cram back in everything i've forgotten.
J
JCM
Nah, if you are american (or look foreign, like I do) you dont even need portuguese, there are "Maria gringos" (think tourist groupies) at the airport and most popular beaches looking for unattached male tourists.
Just be careful, while 99% just want to do a foreigner, there's that 1% that wants to hold you for ransom or sell/rob your stuff/money/organs.
---------- Post added at 01:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------
He already knows the most important one... 'MERICAN!
C
Cuyval Dar
Learn Mando'a, Shyriiwook, and Elvish.
A
Andromache
in the constraints of the OP's question, it's really hard to to suggest that Chinese isn't very useful on the global business scale, especially given the country's purchasing parity. From that standpoint, it's a strange notion to ignore the third largest economy in the world. Yes, French is widely used, but a language sector behind a 4.4 trillion (USD) GDP (nominal) is not inconsequential.
C
Chazwozel
in the constraints of the OP's question, it's really hard to to suggest that Chinese isn't very useful on the global business scale, especially given the country's purchasing parity. From that standpoint, it's a strange notion to ignore the third largest economy in the world. Yes, French is widely used, but a language sector behind a 4.4 trillion (USD) GDP (nominal) is not inconsequential.[/QUOTE]
From a business standpoint, English is the language of choice.
J
JCM
Yep. Most exporting countries, specially China, already have English-speaking people to handle foreigners.
If you want to be a businessman and deal with the Chinese, its a great language, but if you just want a language that will be useful while travelling, Spanish and French will help more, after English.
in the constraints of the OP's question, it's really hard to to suggest that Chinese isn't very useful on the global business scale, especially given the country's purchasing parity. From that standpoint, it's a strange notion to ignore the third largest economy in the world. Yes, French is widely used, but a language sector behind a 4.4 trillion (USD) GDP (nominal) is not inconsequential.[/QUOTE]However his point still stands.
If you want to be a businessman and deal with the Chinese, its a great language, but if you just want a language that will be useful while travelling, Spanish and French will help more, after English.
C
Chazwozel
in the constraints of the OP's question, it's really hard to to suggest that Chinese isn't very useful on the global business scale, especially given the country's purchasing parity. From that standpoint, it's a strange notion to ignore the third largest economy in the world. Yes, French is widely used, but a language sector behind a 4.4 trillion (USD) GDP (nominal) is not inconsequential.[/QUOTE]However his point still stands.
If you want to be a businessman and deal with the Chinese, its a great language, but if you just want a language that will be useful while travelling, Spanish and French will help more, after English.[/QUOTE]
This.
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