ACORN and underage prostitute advice...?

[strawman]

Most national news media outlets have been ignoring it (except, of course, fox and cnn, bastions of conservatism that they are), but now there are (I've heard) four hidden camera videos of ACORN representatives giving advice on how to run prostitution rings with underage girls to generate cash for political contributions.

Wait, what?

The New York Times just tonight has this blurb:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/us/politics/17acorn.html

You can find some of the videos by searching "acorn prostitution."

Sounds like Congress is distancing themselves very quickly by voting to cut funding to acorn...

Equipped with a video camera, conservative activists James O'Keefe, 25, and Hannah Giles, 20, sought the answer to this question: \"What if a 'prostitute' and her alleged law school boyfriend walk into ACORN seeking housing for an underage brothel to fund his future congressional campaign?\"

The answer, they discovered, was that some of the folks who work at ACORN (the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) were overly adept at looking the other way - even after O'Keefe and Giles told them that Salvadoran girls as young as 12 would be working as prostitutes in their brothel.

One ACORN worker told the couple they could list the under-aged prostitutes as dependents \"because they live in your house, especially if they're under 16.\" Some organizers emphasized that it was not their job to judge others. A Baltimore worker tried to sign up the couple as dues-paying ACORN members.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/16/MNFS19NG5L.DTL#ixzz0RKRHCOKZ
​

A higher level overview of acorn and what this could mean here: http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/16/what-is-the-acorn-controversy-about/

And, as usual, Wikipedia provides relatively up to date info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associ...zations_for_Reform_Now#2009_undercover_videos

Is this systemic in the organization, or "just a few bad apples in a few different offices" as acorn indicates?

-Adam

 

[Adam]

"Trisa Kaelke, one of the ACORN organizers interviewed, claimed that she did not take the two actors seriously, and made a variety of other absurd or joking statements in response to what she took as a gag"

There's something nutty with ACORN, but I'm more inclined to believe the whole thing is a farce than a guy walking into an office with a pimp cane and leopard print overcoat talking about bringing in 12 year old El Salvador girls while the woman talks about killing her husband (Which low and behold, has been confirmed to be 'not true')

---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/duo_who_turned_this_trick_2sjQ58MdtwmSXxhfVELmZL

These are the two that posed as a pimp and a prostitute.

Still think this is legit?

 

[Krisken]

Wait, they actually dressed as pimps? They look like my cousins. I can't imagine them dressed as pimps.

 

[Adam]

Wait, they actually dressed as pimps? They look like my cousins. I can't imagine them dressed as pimps.

"After six weeks of research, Giles said they scavenged together their cos tumes from friends, except for the pimp coat, which was on loan from O'Keefe's grandmother."

...

 

[strawman]

\"Trisa Kaelke, one of the ACORN organizers interviewed, claimed that she did not take the two actors seriously, and made a variety of other absurd or joking statements in response to what she took as a gag\"

There's something nutty with ACORN, but I'm more inclined to believe the whole thing is a farce than a guy walking into an office with a pimp cane and leopard print overcoat talking about bringing in 12 year old El Salvador girls while the woman talks about killing her husband (Which low and behold, has been confirmed to be 'not true')

---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/duo_who_turned_this_trick_2sjQ58MdtwmSXxhfVELmZL

These are the two that posed as a pimp and a prostitute.

Still think this is legit?

Have you seen the videos? The one I saw was hilariously over the top - and there the acorn reps are, talking quietly about how they can avoid paying taxes on the income, get housing credits, etc.

Acorn has already fired several people involved, so I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if this is 'legit.' Congress acted pretty quickly on Monday's resolution (Senate voted 87 to 3 to revoke any funding going to acorn).

Perhaps Trisa thought it was a joke, but it's just as likely that she's trying to distance herself from it as everyone else appears to be doing.

So... I'm not sure what you're getting at - please elaborate. If you have additional information, I'd appreciate hearing it - admittedly I'm only skimming the stories, and have only watched one of the videos, so I'm very ill-informed, but it's quite the story.

Regarding their appearance, watch the videos. I don't know what pimps and call girls look like (except in movies, and I'm sure I've passed them on the street downtown occasionally) - but they look like what the movies portray at any rate.

-Adam

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------

Here's the one video I saw:



-Adam

 

[Adam]

1:16 shows how the 'undercover pimp' dressed.

Now, there's multiple 'undercover' issues here, however the one specifically related to how to run a brothel out of your house, I believe is a complete joke; hence my post.

I'm just not ready to make a decision based on Fox News reporting yet.

 

[Soliloquy]

Now, this all raises an interesting question:

If I remember correctly, there was some sort of link between Obama and Acorn during the election year. Don't remember exactly what.

If this new information about Acorn came out during that time, do you think Obama would have been elected?

 

[AshburnerX]

Now, this all raises an interesting question:

If I remember correctly, there was some sort of link between Obama and Acorn during the election year. Don't remember exactly what.

If this new information about Acorn came out during that time, do you think Obama would have been elected?

I'd imagine he'd have been able to do enough damage control that he'd have still made it.

 

[tegid]

1:16 shows how the 'undercover pimp' dressed.

Now, there's multiple 'undercover' issues here, however the one specifically related to how to run a brothel out of your house, I believe is a complete joke; hence my post.

I'm just not ready to make a decision based on Fox News reporting yet.

I totally agree. It looks like a frakkin halloween costume...

But I'm thinking that maybe people that dress like this exist and had been to that office before, or the people at ACORN just tried to ignore it.

Dunno.

 

[Silver Jelly]

There's something nutty with ACORN

I lol'd

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

So is ACORN into child prostitution, or did they just joke around with obvious pranksters?

 

[Covar]

I figured they would claim its just a few bad apples. Along with those members arrested in Floridia for voter fraud, and the other members involved in the 13 other FBI investigations.

Time to just admit the whole bushel is rotten.

 

[Krisken]

I figured they would claim its just a few bad apples. Along with those members arrested in Floridia for voter fraud, and the other members involved in the 13 other FBI investigations.

Time to just admit the whole bushel is rotten.

Said the pot to the kettle.

 

[Covar]

?

I'm not part of any "community organizer" group.

For the record, I'm talking about ACORN, not the Left in general.

 

[strawman]

?

I'm not part of any "community organizer" group.

For the record, I'm talking about ACORN, not the Left in general.

The left has been distancing itself publicly ( though not financially) from acorn for some time now. While acorn clearly supports liberal politics, they are not one and the same.

-Adam

 

[sixpackshaker]

So two rich crackers walk into an Acorn office in obvious costumes, and these ladies took them seriously?

 

[Covar]

?

I'm not part of any "community organizer" group.

For the record, I'm talking about ACORN, not the Left in general.

The left has been distancing itself publicly ( though not financially) from acorn for some time now. While acorn clearly supports liberal politics, they are not one and the same.

-Adam[/QUOTE]

umm. ok?

 

[Adam]

So two rich crackers walk into an Acorn office in obvious costumes, and these ladies took them seriously?

Well, no, the defense from the lady in the interview was that it was obviously a joke and they were such bad actors she figured she'd play along. And it has been proven she said stuff that was completely wrong.

With only the edited video, it's hard to say one way or another. If members of ACORN weren't guilty of so much other crap, I'd dismiss this out of hand.

 

[Jake]

That looked a bit too serious and went on far too long for them to just be putting the "undercover operatives" on.

 

[Krisken]

Bobby Jindel wants to end state funding for ACORN. Unfortunately, he's trying to end something that doesn't exist

Jumpin jesus on a pogo stick, these guys are in charge. I want to be mad at ACORN, not have to roll my eyes at the people who can't do a little basic research and make promises to end something that isn't even happening. It's like promising to end the polar bear threat in Florida.

 

[Tinwhistler]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6630289.html

Police say a worker with the activist group ACORN who was caught on video giving advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute had reported the incident to authorities.
...
Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details.
The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped.

Looks like the worker did the right thing, after all.

 

[Covar]

2 days later?

 

[Krisken]

I agree with one of the posters who stated that an unedited video would be nice to see. As MST3K said, anything can happen during the cut-away.

And 2 days? That seems like a long time to wait to me.

 

[SeraRelm]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

 

[Tinwhistler]

I can see it taking me 2 days to call.

When I was young and poor, you dealt with the cops as little as possible. Calling the cops to report a crime might invite suspicion and scrutiny on you, even though you were the one trying to report a crime. If it wasn't your business, you generally stayed out of it. At least, that's how it worked in the poor parts of town I grew up in.

As a specific example, when I was in my 20's, I saw someone I knew on the Crimestoppers wanted sheets you can pick up in the corner convenience store. It was an acquaintance i didn't really know--he just happened to be taking the same Wu Shu class I was taking. Still, i had no loyalty for the guy, and he was wanted for armed robbery, so I called it in. The cops immediately started grilling me on how I knew the guy and treating me like I was some kind of partner in crime. They didn't believe that that I didn't know where he lived, and wouldn't send someone to the studio to pick him up, even though he was there every week. They never did come arrest him, and I never got my $2000, and the whole experience was just a giant headache.

Plus, I'd probably spend the first day thinking they were full of shit. I mean, the way they were dressed was totally over the top. But then, after wrestling with it, I'd probably give in and call the cops anyway, just in case..they were talking about child-smuggling after all.

 

[Covar]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

yea, and the FBI need to stop pretending to be little girls on the internet too.

 

[Krisken]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

yea, and the FBI need to stop pretending to be little girls on the internet too.[/quote]
I don't think those two things have anything to do with each other. One is a couple of kids playing dress up, the other is a crime prevention unit.

 

[Dave]

One thing that the conservative news hasn't touched on is that there were several offices who turned them down and called the police. So some employees were stupid. Go to ANY large chain and request illegal activities and you'll hit enough that you have some successful video to damn them all.

But what I have an issue with is the fact that people are starting to pull their Michael Moore bullshit and are being backed by the party for whom it benefits. They should be condemning this just as harshly because if this is allowed to go on it will eventually get used on them.

I liken this to the police who take 16 year old kids from convenience store to convenience store trying to buy cigarettes. Here in Omaha they did a story on the news about how stores were allowing kids to buy smokes and then when you read it it turns out that 1 store out of the 50 or so they went to didn't card. So 1 busy convenience store worker tries to save a little time and suddenly it's big news?

This is crap.

 

[AshburnerX]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

yea, and the FBI need to stop pretending to be little girls on the internet too.[/quote]
I don't think those two things have anything to do with each other. One is a couple of kids playing dress up, the other is a crime prevention unit.[/QUOTE]

No, one is a couple of kids wasting someone's time and the other is entrapment for a thought crime. I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.

 

[Krisken]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

yea, and the FBI need to stop pretending to be little girls on the internet too.[/quote]
I don't think those two things have anything to do with each other. One is a couple of kids playing dress up, the other is a crime prevention unit.[/quote]

No, one is a couple of kids wasting someone's time and the other is entrapment for a thought crime. I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.[/QUOTE]
This is one of those things I don't have a specific position on.

 

[Armadillo]

So a couple of rich kids decide to waste a lot of time and money playing Ashton Kutcher with community organizers. People like this really need to go live in a desert away from other humans.

yea, and the FBI need to stop pretending to be little girls on the internet too.[/quote]
I don't think those two things have anything to do with each other. One is a couple of kids playing dress up, the other is a crime prevention unit.[/quote]

No, one is a couple of kids wasting someone's time and the other is entrapment for a thought crime. I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.[/QUOTE]
This is one of those things I don't have a specific position on.[/QUOTE]

I gotta side with Ashburner here. Every time I see a guy getting stung by Chris Hansen, my blood boils. Not that I think people who molest children don't deserve castration via SlapChop, but the guys on those shows and the ones nailed every day by the FBI haven't actually DONE anything. They're scummy as all hell, but arrested for THINKING or TALKING about committing a crime? Me no likey.

 

[Jake]

I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.

Just to clarify, you don't consider pedophiles worse than law enforcement trying to flush them out?

I honestly wish I was surprised.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

I gotta side with Ashburner here. Every time I see a guy getting stung by Chris Hansen, my blood boils. Not that I think people who molest children don't deserve castration via SlapChop, but the guys on those shows and the ones nailed every day by the FBI haven't actually DONE anything. They're scummy as all hell, but arrested for THINKING or TALKING about committing a crime? Me no likey.

So people that solicit murder for hire shouldn't be prosecuted, since nobody was actually killed?

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

Just so we're clear, nobody is getting arrested just for chatting up supposed minors (or thoughts thereof). They get arrested when they demonstrate clear intent by showing up good and ready to get freaky with them.

 

[Krisken]

I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.

Just to clarify, you don't consider pedophiles worse than law enforcement trying to flush them out?

I honestly wish I was surprised.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

I gotta side with Ashburner here. Every time I see a guy getting stung by Chris Hansen, my blood boils. Not that I think people who molest children don't deserve castration via SlapChop, but the guys on those shows and the ones nailed every day by the FBI haven't actually DONE anything. They're scummy as all hell, but arrested for THINKING or TALKING about committing a crime? Me no likey.

So people that solicit murder for hire shouldn't be prosecuted, since nobody was actually killed?

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

Just so we're clear, nobody is getting arrested just for chatting up supposed minors (or thoughts thereof). They get arrested when they demonstrate clear intent by showing up good and ready to get freaky with them.[/QUOTE]
See, that's what I thought, but since I don't really have a working knowledge of how those operations are performed I really didn't know how to respond.

 

[Dave]

I may not like pedophiles, but I don't pretend that the people who hunt them by posing as children ONLINE are any better.

Just to clarify, you don't consider pedophiles worse than law enforcement trying to flush them out?

I honestly wish I was surprised.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

I gotta side with Ashburner here. Every time I see a guy getting stung by Chris Hansen, my blood boils. Not that I think people who molest children don't deserve castration via SlapChop, but the guys on those shows and the ones nailed every day by the FBI haven't actually DONE anything. They're scummy as all hell, but arrested for THINKING or TALKING about committing a crime? Me no likey.

So people that solicit murder for hire shouldn't be prosecuted, since nobody was actually killed?

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

Just so we're clear, nobody is getting arrested just for chatting up supposed minors (or thoughts thereof). They get arrested when they demonstrate clear intent by showing up good and ready to get freaky with them.[/quote]
See, that's what I thought, but since I don't really have a working knowledge of how those operations are performed I really didn't know how to respond.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. In most cases it's illegal to participate in salacious behavior with a minor online even if no physical contact is going to take place. They don't get arrested for showing up - they get arrested for what they did in the chat. Case in point: When Louis Conradt stopped chatting and taking phone calls the police went to his house where he then killed himself.

In a lot of these TCaP cases it's unclear whether it's entrapment or not. I enjoy the shows, too, but sometimes the methods used leave me feeling as icky as the people they catch.

 

[Espy]

[/COLOR]Just so we're clear, nobody is getting arrested just for chatting up supposed minors (or thoughts thereof). They get arrested when they demonstrate clear intent by showing up good and ready to get freaky with them.

Depends on the state. In some states all they needed was the online chat.

THAT is bullshit.

Showing up with condoms and wine coolers and "Young Boy Anus Anal Lube w/Extra Pedobear!" is showing intent and much, MUCH more okay in my book.