Lost: The Final Season (un-marked spoilers as it airs on the East Coast)
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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it's me. it's me.
Already lots of interesting revelations. Looks like they may be able to wrap up a lot of this tonight.
Yeah. After the two hour special, the thing starts.
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU'VE WATCHED THE FINALE!
My thoughts on the finale:
1.) Holy crap! Libedus Lives!
2.) I was surprised to see the older two still alive on the Island, especially with the Dog. Good to see they lived.
3.) I TOTALLY CALLED IT WOULD BE HURLY. I almost bought that Jack would watch the Island when Jacob gave it to him, but I knew that it would be Hurly for one simple fact: Jack leads people, but Hurly helps people, even when it was hard for him to do it. I only wish we had seen more of what Ben and Hurly did with the Island, or that we had seen Desmond leave.
4.) So there was no other dimension... it was just the afterlife. I suppose that dispels the rumor that the ISLAND was Hell then.
1.) Holy crap! Libedus Lives!
2.) I was surprised to see the older two still alive on the Island, especially with the Dog. Good to see they lived.
3.) I TOTALLY CALLED IT WOULD BE HURLY. I almost bought that Jack would watch the Island when Jacob gave it to him, but I knew that it would be Hurly for one simple fact: Jack leads people, but Hurly helps people, even when it was hard for him to do it. I only wish we had seen more of what Ben and Hurly did with the Island, or that we had seen Desmond leave.
4.) So there was no other dimension... it was just the afterlife. I suppose that dispels the rumor that the ISLAND was Hell then.
R
Rubicon
THAT WAS SHIT! PURE AND UTTER SHIT! THEY ANSWERED ABSOLUTELY JACK SHIT AND INTRODUCED A DOZEN NEW FUCKING EPIC-LEVEL QUESTIONS
Seriously, what the fuck was the ending? Were they all dead and in heaven? What the fuck? So Jack survives the light explosion but just stumbles into the jungle and dies with Vincent randomly at his side? The Smoke Monster is easily fucking defeated by a bullet? Yes he was de-powered or whatever after Desmond literally popped the cork but holy jesus talk about anti-fucking-climatic. We never even get to see him turn into the Smoke Monster, or how their "Mother" came about her powers, so many fucking more.
FUCK! Fuck JJ in his ass.
Seriously, what the fuck was the ending? Were they all dead and in heaven? What the fuck? So Jack survives the light explosion but just stumbles into the jungle and dies with Vincent randomly at his side? The Smoke Monster is easily fucking defeated by a bullet? Yes he was de-powered or whatever after Desmond literally popped the cork but holy jesus talk about anti-fucking-climatic. We never even get to see him turn into the Smoke Monster, or how their "Mother" came about her powers, so many fucking more.
FUCK! Fuck JJ in his ass.
figmentPez
Staff member
I wanted to be happy for all these happy people getting a happy ending, but you know what? I can't. I just can't do it. Why should I be happy for them? I don't even what just happened. Maybe it was all just a dream of the dying Jack. The plane crashed, Jack was thrown into the bamboo, and had troubling hallucinations that finally resolved themselves into good feelings just before he died.
congrats mav on being wrong about everything forever and not understanding anything abou tbasic human interactions
I don't think it was just Jack dreaming, I think what happened on the island actually happened, everybody lived their lives and died either on-screen as they were shown or off-screen at some point in the future, and the alternate timeline was some kind of "nexus" where everybody's spirit met up before moving on. Why they would do that? Why did such a small number of losties actually show up to the church? (Such as: why did they just bribe off Anna Lucia rather than showing her the island like everybody else?) Fuck if I know.
P
Philosopher B.
I thought it was a fantastic final. I was so choked up by the end.
The ending was fine. If you really expected all the questions to be answered in the end, you were fooling yourself, especially when most of them didn't need to be answered at all. I mean really... does it really matter how Jacob's mother got her power? It's not really all that relevant to the characters or what is happening to them all.
As for the small number of characters in the Church at the end... this is most likely because these are the only characters who actually appreciated the time they were on the Island for turning them into better people (or maybe just the ones who weren't bound to it for the things they did while on it.)
As for the small number of characters in the Church at the end... this is most likely because these are the only characters who actually appreciated the time they were on the Island for turning them into better people (or maybe just the ones who weren't bound to it for the things they did while on it.)
E
Element 117
So, they were all dead?
C
Chazwozel
I'm so glad I never got sucked into this ponzi scheme of a show...
J
Joe Johnson
Yes and no. In the normal timeline of the show over six seasons, they were all alive. In the sixth season, everything in the alternate timeline, they were dead.
I was not a fan of the ending, but I sort of gave up on the idea that there'd be any satisfactory ending, early while watching the beginning of this season.
Doesn't matter. I'm not one of those "The whole thing is RUINED for me!" types. I still chalk the first few seasons as some of the best TV I've ever watched. The fact that it petered out a bit, and ended with a wimper doesn't take any of that away.
They were all dead in the sense of "everybody dies".
This was an amazing finale, amazing episode, and pretty solid last season. It's probably too soon after I saw it, but this ranks up in the top tier of best show endings ever for me, with Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Newhart, and M*A*S*H
This was an amazing finale, amazing episode, and pretty solid last season. It's probably too soon after I saw it, but this ranks up in the top tier of best show endings ever for me, with Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Newhart, and M*A*S*H
Agreed. When I was studying abroad, all of my American buddies would go watch Lost the second it aired and talk amongst themselves/complain about the unanswered questions right after. I hate having questions dangled in front of me for really long periods of time, so whenever my friend Eric told me I should watch it, I just mentioned I'd watch it when the entire thing was finished and all the questions were answered.
Looks like that won't really happen, but oh well; glad the finale is receiving a positive reaction
R
Rubicon
Well, the majority of fans are hating the finale. The New York Times has critically panned it for answering absolutely nothing and just bringing up even more fucking questions.
This is how you fuck up good tv. Seriously, shit like this makes me want to cancel my cable tv service, why fuck am I paying for tv when this is the type of shit we get? There's no good science fiction left on tv these days.. Shit ass writing like this is why. Just when I thought a duo of writers could not top Berman and Braga's complete and utter pissing on the Star Trek franchise, Lindenof or whatever, took it to the next level of shittery.
Talk about a long con. 6 years those bastards strung us along until this....
Anyone want to buy some Lost dvds? Got seasons 1-5, selling cheap, proceeds can be donated to the Writers Guild to help pay for quality
This is how you fuck up good tv. Seriously, shit like this makes me want to cancel my cable tv service, why fuck am I paying for tv when this is the type of shit we get? There's no good science fiction left on tv these days.. Shit ass writing like this is why. Just when I thought a duo of writers could not top Berman and Braga's complete and utter pissing on the Star Trek franchise, Lindenof or whatever, took it to the next level of shittery.
Talk about a long con. 6 years those bastards strung us along until this....
Anyone want to buy some Lost dvds? Got seasons 1-5, selling cheap, proceeds can be donated to the Writers Guild to help pay for quality
Lost was network television, not cable. Networks usually go after ratings and advertising dollars, so they tend to extend hit shows to keep the money coming in. Cable (in the US) is often where higher quality programs reside. I reckon Lost could have been reduced to a maximum of four seasons to do what they wanted to do.
If you want to fuck up good Television, answer all the questions. If everything is answered, you will not bring your own experiences and point of view to the show you are watching.
figmentPez
Staff member
Last week IO9.com had an article on 50 Questions Lost Really Does Need To Answer, I didn't agree that all of them needed explanation, but there are some damn good ones that didn't get resolved.
- If Jacob was a Roman, why is he so into Egyptian gods?
- Why was Charlie fated to die, exactly? What did Charlie's death accomplish, in the end?
- Why was Libby in the same mental hospital as Hurley? What's her deal exactly? Why was she in Australia?
- What was so special about Walt? No, really. They made a big deal out of it and everything.
- Why did the Incident in 1977 leave the island's women unable to give birth? What's with the huge importance placed on fertility on the island, what with the Tawaret statue? Why are so many women separated from their babies?
- So why was Widmore unable to return to the island? And then why was he able to return to the island after all? Also, why did turning the donkey wheel mean that Ben was unable to return to the island, except with the Oceanic Six?
- What was the Sickness that the Dharma Initiative was vaccinating people against? Is it similar to the Smoke Monster "claiming" people, or something else?
Reading through all those questions (some of which, amazingly, got pretty good answers) has made me realize my biggest problem with the show is not simply strange events with no explanation, but self-contradictory events with no explanation. In speculative fiction I can accept a great number of things that are strange without needing an explanation, but when a world's fiction seems at odds with itself, that's when I really want some examination. It's hard to travel to and from the island? Fine, but when you have people coming and going with regularity and someone knows the rules, I expect at least some explanation as to why the rules of travel are different for different people.
- If Jacob was a Roman, why is he so into Egyptian gods?
- Why was Charlie fated to die, exactly? What did Charlie's death accomplish, in the end?
- Why was Libby in the same mental hospital as Hurley? What's her deal exactly? Why was she in Australia?
- What was so special about Walt? No, really. They made a big deal out of it and everything.
- Why did the Incident in 1977 leave the island's women unable to give birth? What's with the huge importance placed on fertility on the island, what with the Tawaret statue? Why are so many women separated from their babies?
- So why was Widmore unable to return to the island? And then why was he able to return to the island after all? Also, why did turning the donkey wheel mean that Ben was unable to return to the island, except with the Oceanic Six?
- What was the Sickness that the Dharma Initiative was vaccinating people against? Is it similar to the Smoke Monster "claiming" people, or something else?
Reading through all those questions (some of which, amazingly, got pretty good answers) has made me realize my biggest problem with the show is not simply strange events with no explanation, but self-contradictory events with no explanation. In speculative fiction I can accept a great number of things that are strange without needing an explanation, but when a world's fiction seems at odds with itself, that's when I really want some examination. It's hard to travel to and from the island? Fine, but when you have people coming and going with regularity and someone knows the rules, I expect at least some explanation as to why the rules of travel are different for different people.
Mav, you're an idiot. I'm sorry, I'm not being insulting, it's just fact. (Vincent RANDOMLY being there?! Did you even watch the pilot?)
That was some great fucking television. Few works of fiction get to my tear ducts. This did.
Oh man. So awesome. "This is a place that you all made together so that you could find one another."
Thank you for these 6 years, Lost crew, I know they had their ups and downs and some out right shitty moments... but you make me remember why television is a valid medium for art, even if the less talented crocks of the world keep trying to invalidate that. Thank you.
That was some great fucking television. Few works of fiction get to my tear ducts. This did.
Oh man. So awesome. "This is a place that you all made together so that you could find one another."
Thank you for these 6 years, Lost crew, I know they had their ups and downs and some out right shitty moments... but you make me remember why television is a valid medium for art, even if the less talented crocks of the world keep trying to invalidate that. Thank you.
C
Chazwozel
Berman and Braga's Enterprise was so despised fans wanted to keep it from getting canceled: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/5500.html
Mav ol' buddy: Your opinion doesn't equal the opinion of everyone else, so stop trying to sway it that way.
As to the ending of Lost: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ce...t_instant_reaction_to_the_s.html?hpid=artslot
The majority of Lost fans liked it.
Man, you're as bad as those morons who bitch and moan about George Lucas releasing a new edition of Star Wars every couple years; at the same time bending over and accepting his penis into their wallets.
It was a brilliant last episode that was tempered by the last 5 minutes. In a way, it was pretty satisfying but I also felt a bit cheated, like all the time spent on the "alternate" time line was a bit of a red herring just to catch the viewer (and for no other reason). They did this once before when they did a flash forward for Sun and a flash back for Jin that served no other purpose than to fool the viewer. It is a bit unsatisfying to realize you've been misled but without any real payoff. Usually the misleading has some consequences that make you reinterpret what you've been seeing but in this case, there really isn't much to reinterpret. You can just look back and say, "I guess that happened the way we saw it." That's why people dread encountering the "it was all a dream" ending, I think. And while LOST was NOT all a dream, it was partially a dream in that the "alternate" time line required people to wake up from it. So they did a great job of tying up relationships (sorry, Mav, but THAT is what good storytelling is about) but they gave us a fake (Desmond indicated they were leaving, which may be somewhat right but disingenuous) and then replaced it with a weak payoff. I was loving the episode until the final reveal, though, and then it felt a bit empty...
K
kaykordeath
I watched the first 3 episodes of season 1, enjoyed it, but the family wound up watching something else. In those pre (for me) DVR days, that meant I wound up not following through. And just never motivated myself to watch on DVD.
But I was intrigued enough to watch last night. And with what I had read up over the months online, I wasn't all that confused.
That being said, it seemed like the finale was geared much more towards viewers like me than to the real hard core detail oriented fans. The put a nice little bow on everyone's journey, focusing on the characters and their relationships with each other, with just a passing care towards the mysteries of the island.
I'm sure a lot of people care about the details of what the hell was going on with the cave and the light and what it all meant. For me, I saw it as "ok, that guy is letting the water out of the tub, and the island doesn't like it, got it..."
But I was intrigued enough to watch last night. And with what I had read up over the months online, I wasn't all that confused.
That being said, it seemed like the finale was geared much more towards viewers like me than to the real hard core detail oriented fans. The put a nice little bow on everyone's journey, focusing on the characters and their relationships with each other, with just a passing care towards the mysteries of the island.
I'm sure a lot of people care about the details of what the hell was going on with the cave and the light and what it all meant. For me, I saw it as "ok, that guy is letting the water out of the tub, and the island doesn't like it, got it..."
I'm just not sure how anyone seeking answers would have been satisfied. Can you imagine if it had been like the end of a Sherlock Holmes novel, and it was just two and a half hours of exposition that tied up all the loose ends and explained away every mystery that ever came up? That would have sucked hard.
Besides, it's a TV show. They could have made up whatever they wanted for explanations, most of which would have sucked. "Oh, it was all God's Doing" or "Aliens were responsible for all the mysterious happenings" or "Hurley dreamed the whole thing in a buffalo wing-fueled nightmare".
Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.
Besides, it's a TV show. They could have made up whatever they wanted for explanations, most of which would have sucked. "Oh, it was all God's Doing" or "Aliens were responsible for all the mysterious happenings" or "Hurley dreamed the whole thing in a buffalo wing-fueled nightmare".
Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.
Meh, once everyone started talking about "going away" i started catching on what was going on, but i was really hoping for something else, as that is kind of a stock ending really... and a bit rude actually seeing how that was one of the theories about the island which the fans brought up all the time only to have it shot down...
And of course once it was down to just one extra length episode it was pretty obvious we weren't gonna get many more answers... but c'mon, they could have included more...
I liked Tolkien's way better... 2-3 mysteries remaining so out of 1000 is way better then them obviously making stuff up because they never actually intended to explain it, because character drama masks anything...
But i guess Lost has been consistent in that regard at least, the mysteries where always just decorum.
And of course once it was down to just one extra length episode it was pretty obvious we weren't gonna get many more answers... but c'mon, they could have included more...
Dying as they lived, completely ignorant of what the hell was going on...
I liked Tolkien's way better... 2-3 mysteries remaining so out of 1000 is way better then them obviously making stuff up because they never actually intended to explain it, because character drama masks anything...
But i guess Lost has been consistent in that regard at least, the mysteries where always just decorum.
Seeing how it was getting cancelled (and it did right after it started getting interesting, probably because of the change in showrunner) i don't think you can say it wasn't a failure.Berman and Braga's Enterprise was so despised fans wanted to keep it from getting canceled: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...icle/5500.html
Show me someone this doesn't apply to in the real world, and I'll show you someone who's deluded.
S
Soliloquy
Well, I think that most answer-seekers were hoping for some kind of single revelation or two that was cleverly designed from the beginning, and makes all the bizarre oddities make more sense by adding another context on a second watch-through.
I specifically didn't watch the show because I knew that such a simple revelation is more or less impossible to have during the run of a six-season television show. That kind of thing only works in shorter-run narrative, like a movie, a single season of a show, or a comic series.
For example, let's take a look at Shutter Island's ending, which is perhaps not the best twist out there, but follows what I'm getting at:
The fact that DiCaprio's character actually is Andrew Laeddis makes pretty much every single little odd way that the asylum patients and the asylum doctors act make sense on the second watch-through. Why were the patients acting so odd when DiCaprio was asking them about Laeddis and Sheehan during the interrogation? Because Laeddis and Sheehan were the ones interviewing them. Why did the staff refuse to comply with DiCaprio's requests for information on the patients? Because he's not actually a cop, and the staff is only willing to go so far to keep up the Charade. Why does Chuck fumble with his gun when he takes it off and hands it to the guard at the very beginning? Because he's never been a law enforcement officer, and hasn't had experience with firearms. There are dozens of other examples, which I find to be pretty brilliant, despite the fact that the twist was pretty out-there.
A good example in another medium is the webcomic Inverloch (one of the first webcomics I ever discovered, and the first one that I was ever able to read through all the way to the story's end). In it, some of the tiniest, innocuous details that you forget about on the first read-through can be seen in a completely different light on the second read-through.
But, as far as I understand, none of these odd details in lost are given a different context after the ending. Hence, the disappointment.
O
Oddbot
I loved the ending.
Anyone who was so caught up in the details that they couldn't take the ending for what it was has severely missed the point of the entire show, I'm sorry. From day one it has always been about the characters and their personal journeys and interactions. The finale closed all their journeys, and did it excellently. That's all that was truly needed and it was supremely delivered.
This reminds me of how people reacted to the BSG ending, which though not as god as Lost's, similarly closed all of the personal stories of the characters.
Anyone who was so caught up in the details that they couldn't take the ending for what it was has severely missed the point of the entire show, I'm sorry. From day one it has always been about the characters and their personal journeys and interactions. The finale closed all their journeys, and did it excellently. That's all that was truly needed and it was supremely delivered.
This reminds me of how people reacted to the BSG ending, which though not as god as Lost's, similarly closed all of the personal stories of the characters.
V
Veteran
Let me try and wrap my head around this.
The alternate universe was a way for Losties to reach the afterlife. Everyone in it died. Some deaths we've seen, but others we're left to assume happened sometime after Jack died on the island. Hurley and Ben lived for however long as the new Jacob and Richard? Meanwhile the old Richard, Miles, Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate and Miles all left the island and had, presumably, happy lives? Once Kate and Sawyer die they end up in this purgatory for a while, but none of the others from the successful plane do? Or some of them do, like Miles who is a detective but not in the church? What about Daniel and Charlotte, they didn't get a realisation of having died even though we saw both their deaths on the island?
What about the two nobody liked who got buried alive?
What about Eko?
Mav is right, fuck this ending.
The alternate universe was a way for Losties to reach the afterlife. Everyone in it died. Some deaths we've seen, but others we're left to assume happened sometime after Jack died on the island. Hurley and Ben lived for however long as the new Jacob and Richard? Meanwhile the old Richard, Miles, Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate and Miles all left the island and had, presumably, happy lives? Once Kate and Sawyer die they end up in this purgatory for a while, but none of the others from the successful plane do? Or some of them do, like Miles who is a detective but not in the church? What about Daniel and Charlotte, they didn't get a realisation of having died even though we saw both their deaths on the island?
What about the two nobody liked who got buried alive?
What about Eko?
Mav is right, fuck this ending.
figmentPez
Staff member
It's about the characters, but I can't feel like things were wrapped up for the characters if I don't know what happened to the characters. The ending evoked a lot of vague happy feelings, but it didn't have much impact for me because it didn't have enough substance to feel like the characters really had a happy ending instead of an illusion.
S
Soliloquy
Turns out the real twist is it was just a TV show all along.
K
kaykordeath
Was talking with a co-worker who was a real heavy duty fan. She hosted a theme party with Dharma Soda and chocolate bars etc...
And the general feeling was: even if answers weren't provided, at least make it clear that there WERE answers. Give us the broad strokes. If you don't want to explain WHY certain things were important, at least make it clear that there WAS a specific reason. Other than "because we said so."
The light int he cave. It's important. Doesn't matter what it is or how it works..but at least show us that it's not JUST a clogged bath tub drain. And stop INSISTING that answers will be given.
And the general feeling was: even if answers weren't provided, at least make it clear that there WERE answers. Give us the broad strokes. If you don't want to explain WHY certain things were important, at least make it clear that there WAS a specific reason. Other than "because we said so."
The light int he cave. It's important. Doesn't matter what it is or how it works..but at least show us that it's not JUST a clogged bath tub drain. And stop INSISTING that answers will be given.
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