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Who's ready for some answers????

I no longer have satellite, so I can't watch it.

I might have to pick it up on iTunes.

I have more questions.

I don't know if Lost was awesome, or if it's just awesome seeing Lost again. It must be BOTH.

Can't wait to see this season as it unfolds.

Answers?! But then it wouldn't be Lost, but some other show with the same actors...

Still waiting for some answers...

Right, just watched it and not going to hide it behind spoilers. If you're reading on after clicking on the frigging Lost thread, then you have no sympathy from me.

Damn good episode. We got ourselves something of a Lazurus pit, confirmation on who Locke is, and a whole lotta people returning.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised by how everything post-bomb turned out. I'm thinking that BOTH timelines are going on, now. We're getting to see what would've happened to everyone had the plane actually landed. And unfortunately, as Evil Locke pointed out, it's not a happy ending for pretty much anyone. Seriously, if you compare the character development of nearly everyone whose lives have changed since the crash with how they were landing in LAX, then they've all become better people. Hugo has made a lot of good friends and gotten away from the curse, Jack has become a sheppard to the people, Kate's free, Sawyer had closure with his father's murderer, Jin and his wife become closer than ever, etc. Even though Charlie died, he became a much better and selfless person by the end. Really, the only one I can think of that things didn't turn out so well for is Boone. Jury's still out on Claire, depending on if we ever see her again on the island.

Still, it bugs me a little that we've had little mention of gods throughout the show and suddenly, we're stuck in a war between two of them (Jacob and Evil Locke/smoke monster). We've had hints that they're Egyptian gods, with the Smoke Monster being Anubus, but up until now, it's been background material, with Egyptian symbology.

A little miffed about yet another group on the island suddenly popping up. But, they worship Jacob, so there's a theme of gods and worship in this season. The first season was about the island itself. The second was all about the hatch. The third was the Others. The fourth was about getting back to the island. The fifth was about time travel. Now, we're getting into the motivations of the two gods and why everything is the way it is.

So yeah, to say I'm stoked for this season would be an understatement.

ThatNickGuy said:

A little miffed about yet another group on the island suddenly popping up.

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What? Those are the Others.

Great start to the seasons, it will be interesting to see how they play the "flashes" out.

Reboneer;337393][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:

A little miffed about yet another group on the island suddenly popping up.

Click to expand...

What? Those are the Others.[/QUOTE]

Ah, but I mean the Chinese man and his translator. New "Others" who have never been seen before.

Ben has talked about going to the Temple on a lot of occasions

Ah, that's true. I stand corrected.

Well, actually, I'm sitting down. But I'm still corrected.

Ok managed to get to see it thanks to abc.com (didnt feel like waiting on a torrent)

They are definitely leaning toward the whole "they're gods" type thing. If so, how could Jacob die? If Evil Locke is the other dude that we saw at the end of season 5, he is also the Smoke Monster?

Richard might be Prometheus? Being in chains and a god, and all? Prometheus did piss off Zeus for sharing fire with humans and Richard has been fairly kind to the Losties, generally.

They have a fountain of youth? That explains some things. But how about the other miraculous healing the island has done?

Why are the Jacob worshipers a mix of like japanese guys, 70s era hippies, the flight attendant and more?

Answered some questions but not others O_O just gimme answers.. please JJ please

The 2 timelines thing is annoying... i wonder if they'll coalesce in the end.

Mav said:

Ok managed to get to see it thanks to abc.com (didnt feel like waiting on a torrent)

They are definitely leaning toward the whole "they're gods" type thing. If so, how could Jacob die? If Evil Locke is the other dude that we saw at the end of season 5, he is also the Smoke Monster?

Richard might be Prometheus? Being in chains and a god, and all? Prometheus did piss off Zeus for sharing fire with humans and Richard has been fairly kind to the Losties, generally.

They have a fountain of youth? That explains some things. But how about the other miraculous healing the island has done?

Why are the Jacob worshipers a mix of like japanese guys, 70s era hippies, the flight attendant and more?

Answered some questions but not others O_O just gimme answers.. please JJ please

Click to expand...

He wouldnt be Prometheus. The gods that have been referred to in the show so far have been Egyptian in nature, not Greek. And I'd definitely say Mr. Black is the other guy that was hanging out with Jacob at the start of last season's finale.

My guess with Richard is he's immortal, thanks to the Lazurus Pit (for lack of another term to use for the moment). The "nice to see you out of chains" line pretty much cements my theory that Richard was on that ship that we saw at the beginning of season 5's finale. I'm guessing it was a Spanish slave ship (the one that we see in late season two; that had the very volitile explosives).

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

@Li3n said:

The 2 timelines thing is annoying... i wonder if they'll coalesce in the end.

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I don't think so. Right now, my theory is that its purpose serves to show us how much everyone on the island has changed (in positive ways). Because we can see a LOT of things going to crap since they landed in LAX.

This is a spoiler for stuff that HAS NOT AIRED YET.

It is a spoiler for upcoming things that will happen in this last season. Mark anything like this! I wish I hadn't read it, but oh well, I fucked up. You probably don't want to read this.

I'm very much routing for Evil Locke. I'm sick of the Others and their ambiguous ways. If it's one thing I don't like in movies and TV it's mysterious good guys. If all the good guys worked together from the start, the bad guys would be defeated. But no! The secretive bunch HAVE to be secretive and thus many people die along the way to quest completion.

Well fuck the Others. I hope they get eaten by the smoke monster.

...

I'm glad I stopped watching around the time Mr Eko showed up. Don't get me wrong, Lost is most certainly a fine series, but the plethora of mind-raping, WTF-inducing, where-the-hell-did-THAT-come-from plot twists + long hiatuses between seasons because the Finnish TV execs would rather show 'documentaries' about the world's fattest teenager = loss of interest.

Soooo, is Sayid really dead - and he's now Jakob? (the same way that smokey is now Locke?)

Joe Johnson said:

Soooo, is Sayid really dead - and he's now Jakob? (the same way that smokey is now Locke?)

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I think Sayid is Sayid. He is still in his body. When the man in black became evil locke, he didn't possess normal locke's dead body and reanimate him. He just shapeshifted. I think Jacob and MIB play by the same rules. I could be way off, but that's just how it seems.

It was pretty cool seeing Boone again, though... very... blast from the past.

North_Ranger said:

...

I'm glad I stopped watching around the time Mr Eko showed up. Don't get me wrong, Lost is most certainly a fine series, but the plethora of mind-raping, WTF-inducing, where-the-hell-did-THAT-come-from plot twists + long hiatuses between seasons because the Finnish TV execs would rather show 'documentaries' about the world's fattest teenager = loss of interest.

Click to expand...

See, this would be a good case to torrent it. If a tv station won't offer it.. and I'm assuming the dvd sales took forever to get there too, that'd be a morally legit reason.

When Eko showed up, it got aweeeesome. That's around the time we got to see the Smoke Monster for the first real time, around the time the visions for the Losties started, the entire ordeal with the Hatch and the Tailies, the introduction of Ben Linus, etc. Season 1 was a builder, season 2 really started the gears moving, you should check it out again. The WTF moments come at a slower pace in other seasons but they are bigger moments when they do happen

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

Calleja said:

It was pretty cool seeing Boone again, though... very... blast from the past.

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This. I marked out when I saw him, Charlie and Claire.

ThatNickGuy said:

Right, just watched it and not going to hide it behind spoilers. If you're reading on after clicking on the frigging Lost thread, then you have no sympathy from me.

Damn good episode. We got ourselves something of a Lazurus pit, confirmation on who Locke is, and a whole lotta people returning.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised by how everything post-bomb turned out. I'm thinking that BOTH timelines are going on, now. We're getting to see what would've happened to everyone had the plane actually landed. And unfortunately, as Evil Locke pointed out, it's not a happy ending for pretty much anyone. Seriously, if you compare the character development of nearly everyone whose lives have changed since the crash with how they were landing in LAX, then they've all become better people. Hugo has made a lot of good friends and gotten away from the curse, Jack has become a sheppard to the people, Kate's free, Sawyer had closure with his father's murderer, Jin and his wife become closer than ever, etc. Even though Charlie died, he became a much better and selfless person by the end. Really, the only one I can think of that things didn't turn out so well for is Boone. Jury's still out on Claire, depending on if we ever see her again on the island.

Still, it bugs me a little that we've had little mention of gods throughout the show and suddenly, we're stuck in a war between two of them (Jacob and Evil Locke/smoke monster). We've had hints that they're Egyptian gods, with the Smoke Monster being Anubus, but up until now, it's been background material, with Egyptian symbology.

A little miffed about yet another group on the island suddenly popping up. But, they worship Jacob, so there's a theme of gods and worship in this season. The first season was about the island itself. The second was all about the hatch. The third was the Others. The fourth was about getting back to the island. The fifth was about time travel. Now, we're getting into the motivations of the two gods and why everything is the way it is.

So yeah, to say I'm stoked for this season would be an understatement.

Click to expand...

It's Yu-Gi-Oh!

Tonight's episode title and who it's about:

Mav;339465][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:

...

I'm glad I stopped watching around the time Mr Eko showed up. Don't get me wrong, Lost is most certainly a fine series, but the plethora of mind-raping, WTF-inducing, where-the-hell-did-THAT-come-from plot twists + long hiatuses between seasons because the Finnish TV execs would rather show 'documentaries' about the world's fattest teenager = loss of interest.

Click to expand...

See, this would be a good case to torrent it. If a tv station won't offer it.. and I'm assuming the dvd sales took forever to get there too, that'd be a morally legit reason.

When Eko showed up, it got aweeeesome. That's around the time we got to see the Smoke Monster for the first real time, around the time the visions for the Losties started, the entire ordeal with the Hatch and the Tailies, the introduction of Ben Linus, etc. Season 1 was a builder, season 2 really started the gears moving, you should check it out again. The WTF moments come at a slower pace in other seasons but they are bigger moments when they do happen

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

Calleja said:

It was pretty cool seeing Boone again, though... very... blast from the past.

Click to expand...

This. I marked out when I saw him, Charlie and Claire.[/QUOTE]

Just about everyone on the plane in the sideways-flash was someone who showed up on the island in the first two or three seasons.

Last night's episode was...okay. They dragged on the mystery of Sayid and why they were doing everything do him. And the stuff with Kate & Claire was kind of uninteresting. And the big with Sawyer and Kate? Good god, did anyone else get flashbacks from Dawson's Creek?

I think this just continues the tradition that Kate-centered episodes suck.

I love that they're bringing everyone back. Claire, Mac(from his 1 minute of screen time), fucking ETHAN, Arzt again, Frogurt. I can't wait to see the parade of awesome cameos from one-off people on the Island over the rest of the season.

I think Claire has the same sickness that Rousseau had and Sayid has now.

I didn't recognize Frogurt the first time he showed up again, I was just, "who the HELL is that guy, where have I seen him before".

Seeing Arnst again made me giggle like a madman.

The Lovely Boner said:

I think Claire has the same sickness that Rousseau had and Sayid has now.

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That's what they've set up, what with the "Hey, this is a Rousseau style trap, but she's been dead for years!" thing.

Aka the "badass mofo" sickness...

But the pill thing was annoying, it's not like the Others couldn't just kill Sayid on their own, so why did Jack go all crazy over it?!

@Li3n said:

it's not like the Others couldn't just kill Sayid on their own

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Mayyyybe they couldn't just kill him on their own. :shocked:

Finally got cought up on it. Wow.

I'm not buying that they are gods yet. I'm leaning more towards watchers. Maybe the first two that found whatever it is that makes the island tick. One good, one bad. It sounds like when Richard arrived Jacob was able to lock Smokey in some how. Richard obviously hasn't seen him since they landed, so something must have happened at his arrival.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sayid is Smokies way into the temple. I don't think Sayid has the same thing going on that Claire and Rousseau had. That seems to come with having a child on the island. Plus, it seems like every vision that people see on the island has been staged by Smokey. The only time we have a true confirmed sighting of Jacob is when he is killed. We really don't know who is behind every other vision.

The pill? Well, we saw what happened when they tried to shoot Smokey on the beach, and Richard stopped everyone else from trying to shoot at him again, so who knows. I don't think it's actually him in Sayid, but maybe it's that he's corrupted.

Personally I'd like to see it end with the island purged and new watchers. Locke as the new good, and Ben as the new bad.

What I'd really like to see is more shows like this that last maybe 3 or 4 seasons tops. Kind of like an extended Twilight Zone. Make it one show that refreshes every few years with a new story line.

Watched the latest episode last night. Assuming the smoke monster was telling the truth, we learned a lot.

Smoke monster was at one point a regular person. Something in the island changed him to what he is now. The scale showed that he was supposed to be the "dark" to offset Jacob as the "light". Supposedly he wants off the island. My guess is it's a lie to try and get the Oceanic group off the island, since Jacob was looking for a replacement within them. Maybe Jacob was planning on replacing him too, and he doesn't want to leave. We also found out that he cannot transform into someone else anymore, possibly from Jacob's death.

The mysterious kid. Possibly the true force behind the island? Or maybe it's Jacob messing with Smokey. Smokey isn't real sure what's going on with him either, for once he seems confused.

Locke turned out OK in the alternate timeline. He's finally come to terms with his handicap, seems to have found a job he enjoys, and is getting married. Nothing too exciting going on with that timeline other than everyone is still interconnected.

I hope Jack shoots Kate this season and yells, "Thats what you get you damn tease!" BAM BAM! Game over.

As I asked on Twitter, did anyone else watch the smoke monster vision and think they were watching Evil Dead for a minute?

Fun Size said:

As I asked on Twitter, did anyone else watch the smoke monster vision and think they were watching Evil Dead for a minute?

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I didn't even think of that, but now I can't get it out of my head.

And if there is one person I wouldn't mind seeing die, it would be Kate.

Shakey said:

The mysterious kid. Possibly the true force behind the island? Or maybe it's Jacob messing with Smokey. Smokey isn't real sure what's going on with him either, for once he seems confused.

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From what he said seems like some sort of referee/arbiter... loved the bit when SmokeLocke channels realLocke by saying the same thing.

Was Kate not written on the cave? They counted off everyone else but I didn't notice them mention her.

I can't remember. I think more people survived the crash than were on the list. I think Jacob visited her though, didn't he? Were Rose and Bernard on the list? I wonder what they're up to.

Also, what about the tailies that were taken because they were on a list? Ben told Ethan and Goodwin to make lists, which they used to look up information and then kidnap people who were deserving. Were those lists made with input from Jacob? Are those people that were taken written on the cave too? Are they crossed off? Argh!

I wonder if some of the "Others", like Ben, were unknowingly doing work for Smokey. Up until lately he could transform into whoever he wanted, so it's hard to say who has been working for who.

I think someone could be crossed off/ruled out as a "candidate" without getting killed.

The Lovely Boner said:

I think someone could be crossed off/ruled out as a "candidate" without getting killed.

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I don't see much other option, really. I don't think it was made very clear, though.

MindDetective;342906][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:

I think someone could be crossed off/ruled out as a "candidate" without getting killed.

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I don't see much other option, really. I don't think it was made very clear, though.[/QUOTE]

You make a good point, especially after I've come to expect such straightforward and transparent storytelling from Lost.

Fun Size;342912][QUOTE=MindDetective;342906][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:

I think someone could be crossed off/ruled out as a "candidate" without getting killed.

Click to expand...

I don't see much other option, really. I don't think it was made very clear, though.[/QUOTE]

You make a good point, especially after I've come to expect such straightforward and transparent storytelling from Lost. [/QUOTE]

I know, what's with the sudden shift towards vague and convoluted stories?

MindDetective said:

Were those lists made with input from Jacob?

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If they were, it wouldn't have been directly through Ben (assuming Ben is telling the truth about never actually speaking with Jacob). While he's definitely lost his rudder as far as staying in control of the situation, it's probably a mistake to assume that Ben has given up on working his own angle.

Speaking of which, in the school in the side-ways flash? :aaahhh:

Shakey said:

I can't remember. I think more people survived the crash than were on the list. I think Jacob visited her though, didn't he? Were Rose and Bernard on the list? I wonder what they're up to.

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He visited Kate. When her and her friend tried to shop lift the lunch box as kids, he offered to pay for it to get her off the hook with the store owner.

I'm guessing cause we know Rose and Bernard do die, it's pretty much all but confirmed they were the skeletons we found in season 1, in the caves, so since they do die at some point in one of the timelines, they aren't candidates.

---------- Post added at 05:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 AM ----------

MindDetective;342906][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:

I think someone could be crossed off/ruled out as a "candidate" without getting killed.

Click to expand...

I don't see much other option, really. I don't think it was made very clear, though.[/QUOTE]

SmokeLocke even told Sawyer there were options.

Accept the position, and see where it takes you.
Don't accept it, see what happens.
Don't do anything and see what happens.
Or simply try to leave the island.

So at least some options that eliminate you as a candidate, might not end with the person being dead

---------- Post added at 05:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 AM ----------

TeKeo said:

it's probably a mistake to assume that Ben has given up on working his own angle.

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He still is. If you watch the scene where the latino woman goes with him into the Statue, she asks him how Jacob died. He point blank lies about who killed him, covering his own ass. So we know he's playing angles.

Sad part is, I don't think he thought it through. If the latino woman and the other Jacob followers know enough to use ash to keep Smokey at bay, then they should know the rules supposedly, that Jacob and Smokey have to abide by. Meaning, she knows Smoke Locke, couldn't kill Jacob and Ben was the only other person there.

MindDetective said:

Was Kate not written on the cave? They counted off everyone else but I didn't notice them mention her.

Click to expand...

4. Locke
8. Hurley
15. Sawyer
16. Sayid
23. Jack
42. Kwon

So I guess not.




With the sideways flashes I'm beginning to worry this is gonna end with "it was all a dream!"

Well, it could end with "it was all an alternate universe!", which isn't really that much of a cop-out given the season's nature.

The island is purgatory, their bodies were given to people who didn't deserve to die. That's why they're all so much nicer when the plane landed.

Shakey said:

The island is purgatory, their bodies were given to people who didn't deserve to die. That's why they're all so much nicer when the plane landed.

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No.

That was a popular theory back around season one which the writers and JJ himself have debunked as not true.

Besides, why would purgatory have two guardians, one good, one evil? With time travel involved?

The islans is purgatory theory has been around since, literally, season 1 and the creators have specifically said it's not the case.

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 PM ----------

Dammit, left the tab open and Mav responded before me. Disregard aranoid:

...

@Shakey

I loled.

I wasn't serious about purgatory...

I love Lost so goshdang much right now. I think Ben has become my new favorite living character (well, aside from Hurley and Desmond). My fav non-Ben scene of the latest episode was between Richard and Jack. Nestor Carbonell = awesomeness. This season has really been coming along radly.

Shakey said:

I wasn't serious about purgatory...

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But purgatory is serious business, young man. :angry:

That Ben episode was fantastic!

Philosopher B. said:

Shakey said:

I wasn't serious about purgatory...

Click to expand...

But purgatory is serious business, young man. :angry:

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Also, doesn't exist...

So now we know "why" Richard is immortal.

But.. apparently so is Jack? And everyone Jacob touched? Has none of the touched ones died?

Think of last season's finale, where Jacob went around touching everyone. They seem to have been okay, despite some pretty insane things they've gone through.

I had a feeling Richard was immortal for awhile. I also figured he was on that ship after seeing it in the distance at the start of last season's finale. When Evil Locke said "It's nice to see you out of those chains" (paraphrasing), that solidified it for me. My best guess? He was a slave or a prisoner on that ship.

Still not sure how all of this is going to play out, but goddamn this most recent episode was great. No surprise, when iBen was the focal point. I hope to hell that TV show that the guy that plays Locke gets green-lit.

Locke is dead, and he was touched. I'd guess the immortality only exists so that Jacob can see everything through. If someone needs to die to accomplish what he wants, they can.

I really hope that the ending isn't basically Jacob saying that he was in control from the start and he simply pushed people along to get the end he wanted. I'm starting to dislike him the more I hear about him.

Shakey said:

Locke is dead, and he was touched. I'd guess the immortality only exists so that Jacob can see everything through. If someone needs to die to accomplish what he wants, they can.

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Seeing how Richard was sure someone else could kill him with a big enough explosion that's not necessarily it... plus Locke died because of Smokey.

@Li3n;352889][QUOTE=Shakey said:

Locke is dead, and he was touched. I'd guess the immortality only exists so that Jacob can see everything through. If someone needs to die to accomplish what he wants, they can.

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Seeing how Richard was sure someone else could kill him with a big enough explosion that's not necessarily it... plus Locke died because of Smokey.[/QUOTE]

Locke died because Ben killed him, Smokey may have had a hand in setting it up, but Jacob could have easily stepped in if he wanted to. I have a feeling Richard wasn't sure either, he was just willing to try anything. And it didn't even work, it's not that the explosion wouldn't kill him, it's that Jacob didn't let the explosion happen.

Ehhh... the idea was that Jack was also "touched", that's why it didn't work... at least that's what Jack seems to have convinced Richard of.

And Smokey made Richard tell Locke he'd have to die, there's got to be something there...

That's what Jack thinks. Seems to me Jacob was pushing Jack and Hurley to go with Richard to help prove to Richard he was still around. The whole reason Jack followed Richard was because he knew Hurley was stalling, which Jacob told him to do.

I have a feeling Jacob is letting Smokey do as he pleases to help weed out the candidates. Seems like it's down to Jack and Hurley now. I still want real Locke to come back though.:humph:

If he is then he's way too OP...

Jacob is kind of a dick to be honest. I mean, does the entire process for a candidate require them to be obscured from the truth and knowledge of what is going on? "Yes you are destined for this, this and this. I need you to do this, that and this. But I cannot ever tell you why other than vague clues" is basically what Jacob has been doing where as Smokey has been a bit more forth coming and honest about what he will and won't do (i.e. those that left the temple when he asked, he kept his word and did not kill them).

I'm leaning with Smokey thus far.. just because I'm sure Jacob has some higher than thou purpose and its part of some grand plan, leaving people in the dark is bullshit as well. I loved when Jack broke the mirror, simply cause he as I was tired of Jacob's bullshit.

Ben should have went with Smokey, since he did save his life (freeing him and leading him to a rifle).

Mav said:

Jacob is kind of a dick to be honest. I mean, does the entire process for a candidate require them to be obscured from the truth and knowledge of what is going on? "Yes you are destined for this, this and this. I need you to do this, that and this. But I cannot ever tell you why other than vague clues" is basically what Jacob has been doing where as Smokey has been a bit more forth coming and honest about what he will and won't do (i.e. those that left the temple when he asked, he kept his word and did not kill them).

I'm leaning with Smokey thus far.. just because I'm sure Jacob has some higher than thou purpose and its part of some grand plan, leaving people in the dark is bullshit as well. I loved when Jack broke the mirror, simply cause he as I was tired of Jacob's bullshit.

Ben should have went with Smokey, since he did save his life (freeing him and leading him to a rifle).

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Perhaps, but it was most likely because he wanted him to kill the woman. Smokey may or may not be in the right, but he definitely has an agenda other than getting off the Island. At least Jacob is pretty forthcoming with the fact that one of them will replace him and that person doesn't get to go home, even if they don't know WHY they will.

So we placing any bets for who ultimately gets picked? I'm leaning toward Hurley myself, even if Jack seems like the obvious choice.

I have a feeling it'll come down to Jack and Sawyer on either end (Jack w/Jacob, Sawyer w/Smokey). They've set up a similar dichotamy between the two throughout the entire show.

I'd say Jack and Sawyer or Jack and Sayid. Hurley could maybe be the new Richard, but I could never see him as a Jacob figure.

Anyone else think that smokey needs the island clear of people to leave?!

I for one hope that he's not going to be full on evil at the end.

As for Ben going with Smokey - remember, Smokey wanted Ben to meet him on Hydra island - where Windmore now is. Doesn't seem like Smokey exactly had Ben's best interests at heart, there.

Dieb said:

As for Ben going with Smokey - remember, Smokey wanted Ben to meet him on Hydra island - where Windmore now is. Doesn't seem like Smokey exactly had Ben's best interests at heart, there.

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You may be on to something there. He might be looking for Ben to get the group he is with now to that island.

As for Smokey killing everyone off, I don't know. He could kill everyone off right now and take the sub if he wanted to. I wonder if his power is limited to the one specific island. He can't use his smoke form to kill everyone and take the sub, so he's using everyone else to do it for him.

Sawyer said that Widmore had those pylon things that keep the smoke monster out, which presumably also suggests other technology that could actually be a threat to him.

Yes, the powder that guy inside the statue put around him, before it was broken and then Smokey piled right on through.

I honestly don't understand why Smokey wouldn't just wait them out if they were doing that. He clearly doesn't need to eat or sleep, so even if they hid behind the powder or devices, he could just wait for them to eventually die of thirst or starvation (baring an Air-Drop of supplies). Even then they'd eventually die of exposure.

Didn't the powder stop working for the others in the temple after the japanese guy got drowned by zombieSayid?!

No, the temple stopped working... they haven't mentioned anything about the powder.

Didn't they put powder around the inside of the temple though?

I don't remember seeing that.... did they?

I thought they did when they fired off that warning flare.

And SmokeLocke couldn't get passed it when he sent Claire in... remember?!

Latest episode? Shit is getting REAL, son! That was probably the best episode of the season so far. I've been dying to know what Richard's secret is, most of which I'd already figured out (slave on the Black Rock, immortal, etc), but to see it unfolding? Someone else pointed out that the writers basically used Richard as a device to reveal more about Smokey and Jacob.

So, what we know, now:
-The island is a prison for Smokey, who may or may not be the embodiment of evil or just very evil in general.
-Jacob is its guardian.
-They have a very similar game of challenging the morals of good people, very similar to God and the Devil with the story of Job.
-We now know how the statue was destroyed.
-We know about the Black Rock.

Goddamn, the more I think about it, the more I realize how much they revealed in this one episode. Answers are comin', people. The one I can't wait for the most, though? The future episode that reveals the origins of Jacob and Smokey. I don't think it's next week, but it's comin'.

Are you sure? I don't think they're gonna reveal their "origins".. well, maybe Jacob's... but I think this is more of an eternal struggle that has been going on since time itself.

No, they've said that one of the later episodes (close to the finale) will be a full backstory on them, much like last night's was on Richard's.

Nice. Looking forward to that.

Last I checked, what the people behind Lost say in interviews isn't something that's aired on the season in an episode. Could y'all spoil that in the future? I don't want to know anything about upcoming episodes.

Sorry, I didn't think it'd be much of a spoiler that THINGS WILL BE REVEALED. Anyway, I can't remember where I read it, but Lost is built around showing us the backstories of everyone important. I'd be disappointed if they DIDN'T do an episode the two of them.

Still, I'm sorry. Next time, I'll put a spoiler behind something like that.

This latest episode makes me question whether Smokey will actually be replaced.

I also have my doubts as to whether that was actually Richards wife at the end, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Jacob doing his thing.

Yeah, I thought Smokey would be replaced, but you're right. I don't think that's the case.

And I think his wife in the cargo hold was Smokey, as well. Jacob didn't recognize the guy at all when he tried to attack.

ThatNickGuy said:

Yeah, I thought Smokey would be replaced, but you're right. I don't think that's the case.

And I think his wife in the cargo hold was Smokey, as well. Jacob didn't recognize the guy at all when he tried to attack.

Click to expand...

I meant at the very end, talking to Hurley.

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

You know, the whole Ghost Whisperer sequence.

Ahhhhhhhh. Right, sorry.

Yeah, it could be Jacob. But I don't know. He doesn't seem like the shapechanging trickster type. And psychic abilities have been showcased before, such as Miles.

ThatNickGuy said:

-They have a very similar game of challenging the morals of good people, very similar to God and the Devil with the story of Job.

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Didn't God just let Satan screw with Job to his heart content while doing nothing to help him to prove a point? Jacob seems to be too involved...

@Li3n;362277][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:

-They have a very similar game of challenging the morals of good people, very similar to God and the Devil with the story of Job.

Click to expand...

Didn't God just let Satan screw with Job to his heart content while doing nothing to help him to prove a point? Jacob seems to be too involved...[/QUOTE]

Basically this. In the story of Jobe, God really does come off as a heartless jerk, as he lets Satan take away everything Jobe had going for him for no other reason than to prove he was right.

I need a Lost family tree, this is nuts. It will be interesting to see how they reconcile the alternate world. This episode really pulled a lot of it together.

AshburnerX;362393][QUOTE=@Li3n;362277][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:

-They have a very similar game of challenging the morals of good people, very similar to God and the Devil with the story of Job.

Click to expand...

Didn't God just let Satan screw with Job to his heart content while doing nothing to help him to prove a point? Jacob seems to be too involved...[/QUOTE]

Basically this. In the story of Jobe, God really does come off as a heartless jerk, as he lets Satan take away everything Jobe had going for him for no other reason than to prove he was right.[/QUOTE]

Well he's only a heartless jerk towards the 1st wife and kids, who are treated like replaceable goods (Job gets taken care of in the end at least)... but i guess they don't much matter for the lesson the story is trying to convey.

@Li3n;367574][QUOTE=AshburnerX;362393][QUOTE=@Li3n;362277][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:

-They have a very similar game of challenging the morals of good people, very similar to God and the Devil with the story of Job.

Click to expand...

Didn't God just let Satan screw with Job to his heart content while doing nothing to help him to prove a point? Jacob seems to be too involved...[/QUOTE]

Basically this. In the story of Jobe, God really does come off as a heartless jerk, as he lets Satan take away everything Jobe had going for him for no other reason than to prove he was right.[/QUOTE]

Well he's only a heartless jerk towards the 1st wife and kids, who are treated like replaceable goods (Job gets taken care of in the end at least)... but i guess they don't much matter for the lesson the story is trying to convey.[/QUOTE]

And what lesson is that? Jobe's life was turned upside down on a bet. It doesn't matter that Jobe got a new family and new success, because he never would have needed it if God hadn't been such a capricious asshole and taken it away from him in the first place.

This previous episode was possibly the best episode of Lost.

What the boner said. This was the first time this season where I felt deeply satisfied with where it went.

I'd put the Richard episode above this last one, but yeah, awesomeness. Desmond has all the best eps.

AshburnerX said:

And what lesson is that? Jobe's life was turned upside down on a bet. It doesn't matter that Jobe got a new family and new success, because he never would have needed it if God hadn't been such a capricious asshole and taken it away from him in the first place.

Click to expand...

Eh, the point Satan made was that the only reason Job worshipped God was that he got all that nice stuff in exchange... so it wasn't like God was only seeing if we could win 50$ from Satan.

@Li3n;369355][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

And what lesson is that? Jobe's life was turned upside down on a bet. It doesn't matter that Jobe got a new family and new success, because he never would have needed it if God hadn't been such a capricious asshole and taken it away from him in the first place.

Click to expand...

Eh, the point Satan made was that the only reason Job worshipped God was that he got all that nice stuff in exchange... so it wasn't like God was only seeing if we could win 50$ from Satan.[/QUOTE]

But it really doesn't absolve God from his actions ether. The real question you need to ask yourself about this story is if Job would have kept worshiping God if he knew that he had his life ruined just to prove a point to Satan?

AshburnerX;369820][QUOTE=@Li3n;369355][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

And what lesson is that? Jobe's life was turned upside down on a bet. It doesn't matter that Jobe got a new family and new success, because he never would have needed it if God hadn't been such a capricious asshole and taken it away from him in the first place.

Click to expand...

Eh, the point Satan made was that the only reason Job worshipped God was that he got all that nice stuff in exchange... so it wasn't like God was only seeing if we could win 50$ from Satan.[/QUOTE]

But it really doesn't absolve God from his actions ether. The real question you need to ask yourself about this story is if Job would have kept worshiping God if he knew that he had his life ruined just to prove a point to Satan?[/QUOTE]

I don't think this line of thought is on topic. Perhaps the religious subforum would be a better place for it?

First Lady Puffinstuff;369825][QUOTE=AshburnerX;369820][QUOTE=@Li3n;369355][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

And what lesson is that? Jobe's life was turned upside down on a bet. It doesn't matter that Jobe got a new family and new success, because he never would have needed it if God hadn't been such a capricious asshole and taken it away from him in the first place.

Click to expand...

Eh, the point Satan made was that the only reason Job worshipped God was that he got all that nice stuff in exchange... so it wasn't like God was only seeing if we could win 50$ from Satan.[/QUOTE]

But it really doesn't absolve God from his actions ether. The real question you need to ask yourself about this story is if Job would have kept worshiping God if he knew that he had his life ruined just to prove a point to Satan?[/QUOTE]

I don't think this line of thought is on topic. Perhaps the religious subforum would be a better place for it?[/QUOTE]

Actually, it kind of does. What reason does anyone have to trust Jacob's judgment? Because he says the Black Smoke wants to end all life? Smokey may not be the most trustworthy or compassionate of individuals, but considering Jacob has likely killed hundreds more in his attempts to contain him, can we really claim him as the lesser of two evils? To be more to the point, everyone Smokey has killed was only in danger because Jacob dragged them to the Island in the first place.

This has a parable with the story of Job: Job's life was only ruined because God decided that making a point to Satan was more important than Job's happiness. It really doesn't matter that things worked out in the end for Job, because things would have been fine if God hadn't messed up his life to begin with. It also doesn't absolve him of killing Job's first wife and their children, whom things certainly didn't work out for.

In other words, why does anyone trust Jacob, when all he's done is endanger people in order to find a replacement anyways?

Your view of the story of Job is, uh... different... I would suggest maybe reading some of the scholarly commentary articles about Job before going to far down the path of "this is what Job is about".

Can you link an article that you think does a good job of explaining it? Because that was the most obvious interpretation to me too.

Regardless of what other interpretations exist, the fact that that is a fairly common interpretation that many lay people come to on their own makes it all the more relevant to Smokey/Jacob. Yes, when you know all the facts and have studied the issue, Jacob may very well be the good guy, but at first glance he really doesn't give much reason to trust him.

Espy said:

Your view of the story of Job is, uh... different... I would suggest maybe reading some of the scholarly commentary articles about Job before going to far down the path of "this is what Job is about".

Click to expand...

I do understand that the message of Job was supposed to be about how truth faith will endure hardship and that only praying to someone when they help you is inherently selfish and that you need to accept that he might not always have your back. I'm simply pointing out that this message loses it's strength when the only reason Job faced hardship was because God wrecked his shit. You could argue that it was God's right to do it because he was the one who gave it to him, but that just makes him seem even more petty. Then again, Old Testament God was an asshole, so it's perfectly in character for him.

Honestly, this will all probably make more sense once the episode focusing on Jacob comes out. I think it's supposed to be the second to last one or something. Maybe then the comparison will be meaningless.

I really don't want to get the topic to far off, but...
Of course it's going to depend on where you do your reading but the "true faith will endure hardship" is not the message I would ascribe to Job, nor would I try to interpret it nearly as literally as you are. I would agree with most textual critics that while it is part of the wisdom lit genre it's really a theodicy, that goes beyond the usual justification of God's ways in the world (here's a hint why: He's God, you won't ever really comprehend His ways, not fully) and instead poses the query: What is the source of wisdom.

A ridiculously simple way to look at the story (and this is far to simple for me personally, but we are comparing one of the most complicated and written about texts from the ancient periods to a silly TV show so why not right? ) would be to say that what we actually have is God allowing the normal sufferings of life to fall on Job, just like everyone else, causing Job to ask "why?" and attempt to understand the suffering of life all humans deal with. In this a debate arises about where true wisdom comes from. In the end God alone is the "source" of wisdom and suffering is merely a part of the world we live since we are in a "fallen" world. God does nothing to Job, he merely allows the normal suffering of the time to affect him instead of guarding him from it. Also: I wouldn't take it literally but as Jewish drama to explain suffering.

Thats like, the worst way I can broach the subject of Job. It takes me 3 days with my undergrad class to even cover the basic themes and idea presented in what is widely considered in scholarly circles one of the hardest texts in Jewish literature. So if you can fit that into Lost then cool, but I don't know if it works...

@Raemon777 As far as a good article... thats really hard to say. Most of my reading comes from commentaries and research journals that aren't online. The best laymans summary of Job I can suggest would be from Dillard and Longmans Intro to the Old Testament, it's graduate level stuff meaning it goes into the theory and lit of the book, which is really what shapes it and one must have to really understand the text, it's almost gibbledy gook without it in my opinion.

I didn't know you had studied religion Espy, facinating stuff. I keep on meaning to study the Bible on an intense level, it really is one of the largest (probably the largest) foundation of Western thought. I've just never had the time/been too lazy.

AshburnerX said:

s. It really doesn't matter that things worked out in the end for Job, because things would have been fine if God hadn't messed up his life to begin with. It also doesn't absolve him of killing Job's first wife and their children, whom things certainly didn't work out for.

Click to expand...

Maybe i'm remembering it wrong, but God didn't kill his family or do anything at all, he just lets Satan do whatever he wants... i'm pretty sure i saw it brought up in other places too, as in the whole of the Bible Job's family are the only deaths attributed to Satan, while God kills millions...

Yup: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html

Thats like, the worst way I can broach the subject of Job. It takes me 3 days with my undergrad class to even cover the basic themes and idea presented in what is widely considered in scholarly circles one of the hardest texts in Jewish literature. So if you can fit that into Lost then cool, but I don't know if it works...

Click to expand...

Well that's only if you decide to go philosophical on it's ass. Otherwise "you should believe even when it's not convenient/doesn't get you anything" is a pretty good synopsis.

I keep on meaning to study the Bible on an intense level, it really is one of the largest (probably the largest) foundation of Western thought.

Click to expand...

No, those would be "stuff the ancient greeks wrote", and not just because the early church scholars where influenced by them.

Dieb said:

I didn't know you had studied religion Espy, facinating stuff. I keep on meaning to study the Bible on an intense level, it really is one of the largest (probably the largest) foundation of Western thought. I've just never had the time/been too lazy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm finishing up my masters right now and plan to go on to my PhD in Old Testament Lit as soon as I get my languages finished (which is no easy task, french, german, hebrew and greek, yay).

Anyway, yeah, Lost... tonight... I can't wait although I'll probably have to wait until thursday to watch it which means I have to avoid this thread so I don't find anything out.

Espy;370024][QUOTE=Dieb said:

I didn't know you had studied religion Espy, facinating stuff. I keep on meaning to study the Bible on an intense level, it really is one of the largest (probably the largest) foundation of Western thought. I've just never had the time/been too lazy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm finishing up my masters right now and plan to go on to my PhD in Old Testament Lit as soon as I get my languages finished (which is no easy task, french, german, hebrew and greek, yay).

Anyway, yeah, Lost... tonight... I can't wait although I'll probably have to wait until thursday to watch it which means I have to avoid this thread so I don't find anything out. [/QUOTE]

Ugh, don't remind me. I have to miss it tonight too. sigh

Wow... that was the most sudden and anti climatic death of the series. I mean, yeah, everyone knows that dropping the dynamite is a bad idea, but wasn't she the first one to get themselves killed by doing it? Not to mention it seems like it was almost done just as an excuse to get rid of her story-wise, like she had other commitments or something.

I AM glad that they got rid of it all in this episode though, now that they've dropped the hammer on someone for mishandling it. It was used far too often with nothing bad happening to anyone for using it.

AshburnerX said:

Wow... that was the most sudden and anti climatic death of the series. I mean, yeah, everyone knows that dropping the dynamite is a bad idea, but wasn't she the first one to get themselves killed by doing it? Not to mention it seems like it was almost done just as an excuse to get rid of her story-wise, like she had other commitments or something.

I AM glad that they got rid of it all in this episode though, now that they've dropped the hammer on someone for mishandling it. It was used far too often with nothing bad happening to anyone for using it.

Click to expand...

Uh.. dude, that's the SECOND time a character is suddenly and unexpectedly killed off by that dynamite. Remember the teacher guy? People got his guts all over them after he blew up real good?


That was such a great effin' episode, though.

The dynamite scene was awesome. My wife and I were practically yelling at the TV. "Stop cramming things in your bag you idiot!" When she blew up, we cheered. The awesome episodes keep coming.

The Mex;370521][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

Wow... that was the most sudden and anti climatic death of the series. I mean, yeah, everyone knows that dropping the dynamite is a bad idea, but wasn't she the first one to get themselves killed by doing it? Not to mention it seems like it was almost done just as an excuse to get rid of her story-wise, like she had other commitments or something.

I AM glad that they got rid of it all in this episode though, now that they've dropped the hammer on someone for mishandling it. It was used far too often with nothing bad happening to anyone for using it.

Click to expand...

Uh.. dude, that's the SECOND time a character is suddenly and unexpectedly killed off by that dynamite. Remember the teacher guy? People got his guts all over them after he blew up real good?


That was such a great effin' episode, though.[/QUOTE]

I've only been watching since last season, after seeing the Via Domus game, so I may not have seen that one.

And yeah, it was a great episode. Anytime Hugo takes the spot light, it seems like the producers are trying to make up for some of the bullshit they put the characters through.

...then don't talk about "the most___ in the series" T_T

How the HELL did you manage to jump on so late, though!? Man that must have been confusing and hard as fuck

Good episode indeed. Who didnt see the dynamite thing coming?

Just to show you how twisted it is to get with all the characters and who is what, I don't even remember Michael dying. I could have sworn he like, jumped off that ship before it blew up.

At least we know what all the whispers in the jungle are.

All the stuff with Libby and Hurley were golden. any time the big man gets a dose of happiness, is alright by me.

Oh and Richard can DIAF. He knows what the island is but oh look, obviously not tell Jack and the rest ;\

The Mex said:

...then don't talk about "the most___ in the series" T_T

How the HELL did you manage to jump on so late, though!? Man that must have been confusing and hard as fuck

Click to expand...

I say a few episodes before that, but I hadn't started watching it religiously until last season. As for confusion... I read some of the major plot points about it on a wiki a while back. I may not know everything that is going on, but I know enough for what is happening NOW to make sense.

Yeah, I guess the last couple of seasons were enough of a departure from the first couple that it shouldn't be that confusing. You considering watching the first seasons? There are some great eps in those (except for season 4, that one sucked).

I don't get why everyone hates on season 4. It was by far my favorite, and I thought season 5 mostly sucked.

I think all the episodes are still available on hulu.

The Mex said:

Yeah, I guess the last couple of seasons were enough of a departure from the first couple that it shouldn't be that confusing. You considering watching the first seasons? There are some great eps in those (except for season 4, that one sucked).

Click to expand...

This helped too.

I laughed so hard when the dynamite blew up. That was great.

Hurley is fucking up. He's listening to ghosts instead of Jacob. This should be interesting.

Man, if anyone deserves a happy ending in the end, it's goddamn Hugo. I hope somehow the two realities combine or something and he gets a happy, rich life with Libby. That's one plot point that I honestly thought we'd never see again after she was killed...holy crap, has it been three seasons?

Also, the dynamite bit was awesome. But it was pale in comparison to the BLACK FRIGGING ROCK going boom. Seriously, it's moments like this that make me realize that this really is the final season.

I would not be surprised if everyone except for Jacobs replacement and Smokey are dead at the end.

Shakey said:

I would not be surprised if everyone expect for Jacobs replacement and Smokey are dead at the end.

Click to expand...

Considering how much they build him up, I think it's really gonna be Hurley. He's the one who's grown the most over the series and unlike Jack, he's actually taking charge now. He may not always make the best decisions, but his track record is actually pretty good in retrospect.

I'm still not sold on Hurley. He seems like he's just a puppet doing what everyone else is telling him to do. I have a feeling Jack is going to step up within a few episodes. He seems to be the golden boy of the show.

Shakey said:

I'm still not sold on Hurley. He seems like he's just a puppet doing what everyone else is telling him to do. I have a feeling Jack is going to step up within a few episodes. He seems to be the golden boy of the show.

Click to expand...

But at the same time, that's what makes it seem like he won't be picked. Lost is a pretty subversive show, with lots of stuff happening that you would never expect. I'd say it would be par for the course if Jack got passed over.

I dunno, detonating the bomb wasn't exactly Jacks finest moment, I mean aside from throwing everyone forward in time it killed Juliet and created the alternate timeline. Ever since Jack brought himself and the others back to the island, he's been on this mission to correct that mistake.

Mav said:

I dunno, detonating the bomb wasn't exactly Jacks finest moment, I mean aside from throwing everyone forward in time it killed Juliet and created the alternate timeline. Ever since Jack brought himself and the others back to the island, he's been on this mission to correct that mistake.

Click to expand...

By... doing nothing?

But they were already BACK on the island when the bomb detonated...

Mav said:

I dunno, detonating the bomb wasn't exactly Jacks finest moment, I mean aside from throwing everyone forward in time it killed Juliet and created the alternate timeline. Ever since Jack brought himself and the others back to the island, he's been on this mission to correct that mistake.

Click to expand...

Do you believe creating the alternate timeline was a mistake then? I mean, aside from Sun and Jin, and potentially Kate I guess, is anyone really worse off in the alternate timeline? And keep in mind, when I say worse off, I mean when compared to fighting for your life against a smoke monster on an island with almost no hope of another rescue.

Desmond and Charlie seem to think they're worse off. Charlie even knew he was supposed to be dead in the "real" timeline.

Desmond spent 3 years in a hole pushing a button for NO REASON THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED. He's now the right hand man of a powerful figure. He is NOT worse off.

I think it is pretty evident that the button pushing was a safety check to release electromagnetic energy every 108 minutes in order to prevent a catastrophic build-up.

But that could easily be automated. It's pretty clear to me that they left the button that way specifically as a psychological test, although you'd think they'd have created a failsafe in case the labrat failed the test (or passed, depending on how you look at it).

AshburnerX said:

Desmond spent 3 years in a hole pushing a button for NO REASON THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED. He's now the right hand man of a powerful figure. He is NOT worse off.

Click to expand...

He seems to think he is.

Raemon777 said:

But that could easily be automated. It's pretty clear to me that they left the button that way specifically as a psychological test, although you'd think they'd have created a failsafe in case the labrat failed the test (or passed, depending on how you look at it).

Click to expand...

Except all the "notes" from the station observing the button pushers emptied into a big pile in an empty field. Perhaps it could have been automated, but not as easily in the 70s. And it very well may be that the automization could not be put into place before everyone was killed. That doesn't cover the pallet drops, though, or the concern about going outside...

Raemon777 said:

But that could easily be automated.

Click to expand...

Not if part of the metaphysical nature of the anomaly required human interaction.

AshburnerX said:

Desmond spent 3 years in a hole pushing a button for NO REASON THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED. He's now the right hand man of a powerful figure. He is NOT worse off.

Click to expand...

island Desmond has true love, alt-universe Desmond never met Penny.

Q.E.D.

The Lovely Boner;372297][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:

Desmond spent 3 years in a hole pushing a button for NO REASON THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED. He's now the right hand man of a powerful figure. He is NOT worse off.

Click to expand...

island Desmond has true love, alt-universe Desmond never met Penny.

Q.E.D.[/QUOTE]

Until he did, and it's not like she's entirely out of his grasp ether.

He only has that near his grasp thanks tot he other universe and its influence

Eloise Hawking told Desmond he had what he has always truly wanted, the respect of Widmore. Is the island being a dick and giving them what they think they want and purposely keeping them away from what has made them happy before? She obviously knows whats going on and why, it'll be interesting to hear her take on it.

Shakey said:

Eloise Hawking told Desmond he had what he has always truly wanted, the respect of Widmore.

Click to expand...

Which he only wanted because of Penny as i recall.

Alright, so last nights episode was a big one. We're officially down a candidate, lost half of everyone who was still alive, and the truth has been revealed: Smokey can't leave until the candidates are dead... but he can't kill them directly. Any comments?

Also, why didn't they just toss the bomb in a torpedo tube and shoot it out of the sub or something? It's pretty big for a civilian one, so it probably had some.

AshburnerX said:

Smokey can't leave until the candidates are dead... but he can't kill them directly. Any comments?

Click to expand...

Too predictable and straight forward...

No actually, it's not. He's said as much repeatedly. And last night was rough.

Fun Size said:

No actually, it's not. He's said as much repeatedly. And last night was rough.

Click to expand...

I wasn't at all surprised that the Pilot died though... once I saw they weren't even going to try and use the plane, I was like "Yep... he's dead." He wasn't exactly adding anything, so I guess it was time for him to go.

Right, as usual, I won't be spoiler marking these. If you're reading a Lost thread, you really should be expecting spoilers.

I hope Lupido isn't dead. He's one of my fave minor characters. We saw him get knocked for a loop, but it's not impossible for him to live.

Still, three main characters are dead. Well, two for sure. As for the third, we saw the explosion, but surely they'd give Sayid a better send off than that. I honestly hated how drawn out the Kwons were. It was pretty damned obvious, right down to Jin's line about never leaving her.

A thought occured to me that hasn't been addressed, yet: How does a Candidate get crossed off? It's not through just death, since Kate and Claire are still alive. In fact, what about Kate got her crossed off? Sawyer's done just as many awful things, if not more, and he's still a Candidate. I have a feeling we'll get a lot of explanations in...well, that episode I'd mentioned a few weeks back that's apparently planned.

Overall, yeah, not one of the better episodes of the season, to be honest. As soon as I saw "Locke" hand Jack the backpack, I knew what was going to happen. No idea why Jack wouldn't think of that, either.

It's...kind of surreal, though. We've got four more episodes left, now.

Jin's a selfish idiot bastard. He should have left and tried to save himself for their DAUGHTER'S sake! I can't believe Sun didn't say as much. As soon as he knew it was hopeless to try and save Sun then NOT leaving their only child 100% orphaned should have been priority number 1. Better to lose a mother than both father AND mother.

The Mex said:

Jin's a selfish idiot bastard. He should have left and tried to save himself for their DAUGHTER'S sake! I can't believe Sun didn't say as much. As soon as he knew it was hopeless to try and save Sun then NOT leaving their only child 100% orphaned should have been priority number 1. Better to lose a mother than both father AND mother.

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Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way, too.

Philosopher B.;381726][QUOTE=The Mex said:

Jin's a selfish idiot bastard. He should have left and tried to save himself for their DAUGHTER'S sake! I can't believe Sun didn't say as much. As soon as he knew it was hopeless to try and save Sun then NOT leaving their only child 100% orphaned should have been priority number 1. Better to lose a mother than both father AND mother.

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Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way, too.[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I'm expecting everyone who died will come back to life in the end now though. They wouldn't have done the bit with the daughter if they weren't.

I figured it was going to go one of two ways:
1) Jin would stay with her because he'd never leave her again.
2) She's beg him to leave, for the sake of their daughter.

Given how much emphasis they put on their reunion an episode or two ago, I assume correctly to the former.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that Sun wouldn't say "Escape, for our daughter.", or something like that.

That was a pretty heavy episode, though other than the deaths, there wasn't much to it.

I DO think that Sayid is dead, which is too bad - he was one of my favorites. After the four got out, and got to the beach, I started thinking about the fact that a LOT of main characters are gone now. It didn't really hit me until you see just the four on the beach. Granted, Claire is still alive, and Locke exists in physical form (which is a slap in the face to me, since he was also one of my favs). Other than that, just the four, right? Or am I forgetting someone.

Joe Johnson said:

Yeah, I couldn't believe that Sun wouldn't say "Escape, for our daughter.", or something like that.

That was a pretty heavy episode, though other than the deaths, there wasn't much to it.

I DO think that Sayid is dead, which is too bad - he was one of my favorites. After the four got out, and got to the beach, I started thinking about the fact that a LOT of main characters are gone now. It didn't really hit me until you see just the four on the beach. Granted, Claire is still alive, and Locke exists in physical form (which is a slap in the face to me, since he was also one of my favs). Other than that, just the four, right? Or am I forgetting someone.

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Your forgetting Desmond, who's apparently still alive.

Random theory: in the end, they will all have to choose which time line is actually theirs, thus saving Sun, Jin, Sayid, Locke, etc., whose choice won't be that difficult.

Oh yeah, Desmond. (which, using TV logic, he's still alive - since we didn't actually SEE Sayid kill him).

Sayid told Jack he was alive.

Fun Size said:

Sayid told Jack he was alive.

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WHAT? When? On the most recent episode? How'd I miss that?

Also, I guess Ben and Richard are alive, but I never put them in the "main character" category, since they were technically "others".

Right before he ran off with the bomb, he told him to find Desmond in the well.

If they kill Desmond it will be the last straw. Cuse and Lindelof better look out.

What I'm wonder is how they'll get off the island now. I mean, it's pretty clear they aren't ALL going to be getting off, but unless whoever takes over the mantle of Jacob can wisk them off the island, they're kinda stuck now.

AshburnerX said:

What I'm wonder is how they'll get off the island now. I mean, it's pretty clear they aren't ALL going to be getting off, but unless whoever takes over the mantle of Jacob can wisk them off the island, they're kinda stuck now.

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ze plane ze plane

I thought of that too, but ze pilot is dead!

MindDetective said:

I thought of that too, but ze pilot is dead!

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Exactly... unless he magically shows up later, unharmed (as we didn't see his body, it's entirely possible). Even then, how are they going to get up to speed on a hilly island?

He landed the damn bird in the first place, despite it being, you know, the goddamn island of doom. If ANYONE can fly that sonovabitch out of there, it's Lupido.
(Heh, sorry, I have a bit of a mancrush on his character.)

It's Frank J. Lapidus, you fool!

Whoops!

Yeah, I'm not convinced he died. He could easily just come to shore at the beginning of the next episode. I figured they wanted to just show the 4 main characters there for emotional impact.

Or, he could just be dead. Which would suck, I liked him as well.

Can't they still "turn the wheel" to get out?

They could. Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of ramification that, if you turn the wheel, you can never come back to the island? That seems to never really be true, since Ben turned it and he's still okay.

Actually, Jacob apparently had some means of getting off the island that we don't know about. It's most likely that the Candidate will simply use that to get them off when it's time.

I'm pretty sure that Jacob can get off the island because he's an ancient god, but that's just my theory.

And the candidate who ends up taking Jacob's job will be also.

Ok so The Man in Black and Jacob are brothers, we kinda knew that.

At least we know why they were trying to kill each other, somewhat, mother issues.

Though, what the fuck is the tunnel of light? Is it the fountain of youth? I mean a lot of things are leaning towards that. And if you throw a live person in it, they become Smoke Monsters?

And why the fuck is it so important that The Man in Black stay on the island?! If he wants to leave so bad let him, the poor guy just wants to see the world..

Yeah, Jacob seems like kind of a jerkiss now.

Here's a mindfuck;

If Jacob threw his brother into "the light", what's to say his brother isn't truly dead? We know Smokie can only take on the form of dead people, so what if throwing a live person into "the light" (which their mother said would be "worse than dying"), unleashed this "monster"?

And what if this monster, is not Jacobs brother but just uses his appearance when he appears in human form, since his brother is 100% dead?

Meaning, who or what the fuck could the Smoke Monster be?


Just a thought...

It's Anubis, obviously...

and the Mayans ended their calendar in 2012 because that's when Lost will end by revealing that the whole thing was real and unleashing the power of the Egyptian God Cards on us to usher in the return of the Pharaoh's Mummy. Only That guy that was in Monkeybone can save us...

lol alien.. i'd almost actually go with that theory if it werent 2007 for them (i know it was sarcasm but still funny)

Mav said:

lol alien.. i'd almost actually go with that theory if it werent 2007 for them (i know it was sarcasm but still funny)

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That's because 2007 it when it happened, they got off the island and used time travel to make the show, and the show is just their way to ease us into it before releasing the Kraken...

Mav said:

Here's a mindfuck;

If Jacob threw his brother into "the light", what's to say his brother isn't truly dead? We know Smokie can only take on the form of dead people, so what if throwing a live person into "the light" (which their mother said would be "worse than dying"), unleashed this "monster"?

And what if this monster, is not Jacobs brother but just uses his appearance when he appears in human form, since his brother is 100% dead?

Meaning, who or what the fuck could the Smoke Monster be?


Just a thought...

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This is probably what is going. Smokey isn't Jacob's brother but something which took his form when it was awoken.

Also, I TOTALLY CALLED that this was entirely Jacob's fault.

Well technically it was his brother's fault for not taking up the mantle...


And seeing how his brother was one of the skeletons in the cave he is pretty much dead. Although Smokey does share his obsession with getting off the island, so there might be more to it.

@Li3n said:

Well technically it was his brother's fault for not taking up the mantle...


And seeing how his brother was one of the skeletons in the cave he is pretty much dead. Although Smokey does share his obsession with getting off the island, so there might be more to it.

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He was never offered the mantle, because he wanted to be able to choose for himself... something his mother refused to let him do. He wanted to be free, and the simple fact is that his mother clearly had other things in mind for him.

I think it was pretty clear to both of them who was the one who would get offered the job... so yeah, he chose to try to get off the island instead.

Whatever the "light" is, its spooky as shit if you ask me.

I mean, out in the middle of no where on this island is this source of light that has something to do with life, death, etc? Is it a fountain of youth? Is it the same water that was supposed to be in the temple that suddenly became "dark" after Jacob died? And what contraption did the Others build with a frozen donkey wheel that interacts with "the light" to cause time travel?

I'm worried they aren't going to have an answer. There are 4 episodes worth of content left in the show, next week then the 3 hour finale. There are roughly like 80+ MAJOR mystery questions they haven't answered, according to DarkUfo and other major theory/spoiler sites. Some of which make me wonder "what the fuck were they thinking?" like.. What was the entire subplot dealing with Walt? If the jesus juice that Mamma Guardian has passes on her powers to Jacob, what happens now that The Man in Black has broken that jar of juice? Why would Smokie just up and randomly kill Eko? He never touched him the first time, the second time he beat the shit out of him? How could Ben "summon" Smokie? How does Widmore have knowledge of the Side-ways Alternate Universe? Where the fuck did Eloise get the idea for the giant pendulum thing that could "find" the island? so many many many more..

I'm pretty sure the wine that Mother used with Jacob when imbuing him doesn't have any power, but rather the act symbolized that he was willing to accept the responsibilities of becoming Guardian. As for the pendulum thing... it's entirely likely that the same force that gave MiB the idea for the Wheel also gave Eloise the idea for the pendulum. It's clear that Jacob isn't the only one who is giving out powers on the Island, as MiB could see the dead before Jacob was empowered and I don't think his mother gave it him. Perhaps there is a third power at work?

I don't think everything needs to be answered. Some of the stuff really doesn't matter. Who cares why Eko was killed? Wasn't it because he wanted off the show anyway?

Shakey said:

I don't think everything needs to be answered. Some of the stuff really doesn't matter. Who cares why Eko was killed? Wasn't it because he wanted off the show anyway?

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Some of the stuff matters, like why devote time to something if theres no point in expounding on it later on? I mean so many things can easily be explained even with just a sentence or two of dialogue (like the whispers on the island being ghosts, boom answered).

Mav;384779][QUOTE=Shakey said:

I don't think everything needs to be answered. Some of the stuff really doesn't matter. Who cares why Eko was killed? Wasn't it because he wanted off the show anyway?

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Some of the stuff matters, like why devote time to something if theres no point in expounding on it later on? I mean so many things can easily be explained even with just a sentence or two of dialogue (like the whispers on the island being ghosts, boom answered).[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but straight exposition sucks. Show me, don't tell me. And that sometimes means you have to leave things unsaid.

Mav;384779][QUOTE=Shakey said:

I don't think everything needs to be answered. Some of the stuff really doesn't matter. Who cares why Eko was killed? Wasn't it because he wanted off the show anyway?

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Some of the stuff matters, like why devote time to something if theres no point in expounding on it later on? I mean so many things can easily be explained even with just a sentence or two of dialogue (like the whispers on the island being ghosts, boom answered).[/QUOTE]

Some of it, yes. I don't think all of it matters though. I have no problem having some of it being a mystery rather than a crappy explanation for the sake of tying up loose ends.

I do think Smokey is still Jacob's brother... remember they still can't hurt each other. It's sort of just MiB's consciousness that left the body when he was thrown into the light, and now he has to take the form of dead people if he wants to become physical. My theory anyways, we'll probably never get a straight answer for that.

Hell, Damon Lindelof just went on record saying we will NOT, EVER, know MiB's name.

I don't get the point of the alternate universe; other than to show they're all connected. I don't quite get what's going on. Maybe they'll reveal that later.

Perhaps the smoke monster was imprisoned on the island and it needed a body to release it? I don't think it is Jacob's bro. It may possess his memories, and such. I just think it's the grim reaper of sorts.

This is a great interview that sort of explains where they were going with the sideways timeline (among lots of other things):

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-a...lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

dr_awkward said:

Perhaps the smoke monster was imprisoned on the island and it needed a body to release it? I don't think it is Jacob's bro. It may possess his memories, and such. I just think it's the grim reaper of sorts.

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Yeah, now that i think about it it also channelled Locke with the "don't tell me what i can't do" line and stuff, which at the time looked just like a simple parallel, but now seems like more.

But i think i would have preferred it if it was Jacob's bro merged with the Smoke, a la the Lich King, except that the Smoke is more of a force of nature that doesn't actually think like a human.

Who cares why Eko was killed? Wasn't it because he wanted off the show anyway?

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Cosidering the latest revelations wouldn't it be because he said no and stopped being a candidate, thus Smokey was able to kill him.

OMFG lmao... sweet jesus thats fucking great

Holy fucking shit, where is that from? SNL or something?

Jimmy Kimmel, or so the guys over at 4815162342.com say so.

Either way its fucking hilarious

HOLY FUCKNIG SHIT AGAIN... that reminded me... WE'LL WE EVER KNOW WTF IS UP WITH THE NUMBERS!?! THE GOD DAMNED NUMBERS!!!

Actually we will.

Assuming they will provide an answer, in the cave Smokie took Sawyer too, all the Candidate names are written on the cave walls. People who are no longer Candidates, have their names crossed out. The Losties who were still Candidates at the time, each had a number assigned to their name (4, 8, 15, etc etc) so the numbers do mean something. Exactly what? We don't know. But we still have 4 hours of content left to possibly find out.

*edit* and here is a much better quality version of the Lost Game clip from above, it starts at about 1:57

That's almost as good as the Mr. Cluck's commercial they did for Comic-Con.

This episode really only created more questions and confusion. I'm not saying I want everything answered, frankly, I don't, but I do want a little resolution and I too am wondering how much we will actually get.

Also: If Jacob cant' hurt his brother and vice versa why did they have him beat the crap out of him every other scene and then kill him???

Espy said:

This episode really only created more questions and confusion. I'm not saying I want everything answered, frankly, I don't, but I do want a little resolution and I too am wondering how much we will actually get.

Also: If Jacob cant' hurt his brother and vice versa why did they have him beat the crap out of him every other scene and then kill him???

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Hurt probably equals Kill in this case, and if he could have killed him by now, something tells me he would have.

Yea everyone around the net discussing Lost has been flipping out over Jacob beating the shit out of Smokie. Yes, their "Mother" did say "can't hurt each other" but honestly, we know for a fact she meant "kill". That was the loophole Smokie talked about the first time we ever saw him in "human form" speaking to Jacob. And shortly after he manages to convince Ben to kill Jacob for him.

Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment, I think. Better reel those expectations in because they are going to leave a lot for YOU to interpret.

MindDetective said:

Some of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment, I think. Better reel those expectations in because they are going to leave a lot for YOU to interpret.

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I completely agree with that, but I don't think asking for some resolution is an unfair expectation and frankly, I think they will deliver. It won't satisfy all of course, but I trust these guys to deliver a satisfying ending.

Oh, I agree. The resolution will come in terms of what happens to the characters (namely Jack, Kate, Sawyer,Hurley, and Desmond) and not what will satisfy the questions we don't know. The producers of Lost have made it very clear that they are more interested in telling the stories of each character than in bending to our curiosity. In my opinion, that's the right focus. Stories are about people, not about answering a myriad of questions.

I can buy that - without the characters there IS no story.

However, for the love of god, it's the last season, stop giving us new questions. It would have been pretty easy for this season to wrap up most of the old questions in a fun way and that easily fits in with the character stories, that also isn't just some guy standing in front of a microphone reading the "answers" from a sheet of paper.

Joe Johnson said:

However, for the love of god, it's the last season, stop giving us new questions.

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GAH! This! Too many questions.

Garfunkel and Oates just released a song that seems related:

Goddamn I love those two.

http://twitpic.com/1q66mg
we have 32 of these I am gonna drink them until the show is over forever

someone's gonna be BLITZED for the finale

The Mex said:

someone's gonna be BLITZED for the finale

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it's me. it's me.

Already lots of interesting revelations. Looks like they may be able to wrap up a lot of this tonight.

I'm having to watch some dumb "looking back" special, is the real thing playing on the east coast already?

David said:

I'm having to watch some dumb "looking back" special, is the real thing playing on the east coast already?

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Yeah. After the two hour special, the thing starts.

DON'T READ UNTIL YOU'VE WATCHED THE FINALE!

THAT WAS SHIT! PURE AND UTTER SHIT! THEY ANSWERED ABSOLUTELY JACK SHIT AND INTRODUCED A DOZEN NEW FUCKING EPIC-LEVEL QUESTIONS

Seriously, what the fuck was the ending? Were they all dead and in heaven? What the fuck? So Jack survives the light explosion but just stumbles into the jungle and dies with Vincent randomly at his side? The Smoke Monster is easily fucking defeated by a bullet? Yes he was de-powered or whatever after Desmond literally popped the cork but holy jesus talk about anti-fucking-climatic. We never even get to see him turn into the Smoke Monster, or how their "Mother" came about her powers, so many fucking more.


FUCK! Fuck JJ in his ass.

I wanted to be happy for all these happy people getting a happy ending, but you know what? I can't. I just can't do it. Why should I be happy for them? I don't even what just happened. Maybe it was all just a dream of the dying Jack. The plane crashed, Jack was thrown into the bamboo, and had troubling hallucinations that finally resolved themselves into good feelings just before he died.

congrats mav on being wrong about everything forever and not understanding anything abou tbasic human interactions

I don't think it was just Jack dreaming, I think what happened on the island actually happened, everybody lived their lives and died either on-screen as they were shown or off-screen at some point in the future, and the alternate timeline was some kind of "nexus" where everybody's spirit met up before moving on. Why they would do that? Why did such a small number of losties actually show up to the church? (Such as: why did they just bribe off Anna Lucia rather than showing her the island like everybody else?) Fuck if I know.

I thought it was a fantastic final. I was so choked up by the end.

The ending was fine. If you really expected all the questions to be answered in the end, you were fooling yourself, especially when most of them didn't need to be answered at all. I mean really... does it really matter how Jacob's mother got her power? It's not really all that relevant to the characters or what is happening to them all.

As for the small number of characters in the Church at the end... this is most likely because these are the only characters who actually appreciated the time they were on the Island for turning them into better people (or maybe just the ones who weren't bound to it for the things they did while on it.)

So, they were all dead?

I'm so glad I never got sucked into this ponzi scheme of a show...

This ending was worse than the Sopranos ending.

So, they were all dead?

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Yes and no. In the normal timeline of the show over six seasons, they were all alive. In the sixth season, everything in the alternate timeline, they were dead.

I was not a fan of the ending, but I sort of gave up on the idea that there'd be any satisfactory ending, early while watching the beginning of this season.

Doesn't matter. I'm not one of those "The whole thing is RUINED for me!" types. I still chalk the first few seasons as some of the best TV I've ever watched. The fact that it petered out a bit, and ended with a wimper doesn't take any of that away.

They were all dead in the sense of "everybody dies".

This was an amazing finale, amazing episode, and pretty solid last season. It's probably too soon after I saw it, but this ranks up in the top tier of best show endings ever for me, with Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Newhart, and M*A*S*H

Chazwozel said:

I'm so glad I never got sucked into this ponzi scheme of a show...

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Agreed. When I was studying abroad, all of my American buddies would go watch Lost the second it aired and talk amongst themselves/complain about the unanswered questions right after. I hate having questions dangled in front of me for really long periods of time, so whenever my friend Eric told me I should watch it, I just mentioned I'd watch it when the entire thing was finished and all the questions were answered.

Looks like that won't really happen, but oh well; glad the finale is receiving a positive reaction

Well, the majority of fans are hating the finale. The New York Times has critically panned it for answering absolutely nothing and just bringing up even more fucking questions.

This is how you fuck up good tv. Seriously, shit like this makes me want to cancel my cable tv service, why fuck am I paying for tv when this is the type of shit we get? There's no good science fiction left on tv these days.. Shit ass writing like this is why. Just when I thought a duo of writers could not top Berman and Braga's complete and utter pissing on the Star Trek franchise, Lindenof or whatever, took it to the next level of shittery.

Talk about a long con. 6 years those bastards strung us along until this....

Anyone want to buy some Lost dvds? Got seasons 1-5, selling cheap, proceeds can be donated to the Writers Guild to help pay for quality

Mav said:

Well, the majority of fans are hating the finale.

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Source?

Lost was network television, not cable. Networks usually go after ratings and advertising dollars, so they tend to extend hit shows to keep the money coming in. Cable (in the US) is often where higher quality programs reside. I reckon Lost could have been reduced to a maximum of four seasons to do what they wanted to do.

If you want to fuck up good Television, answer all the questions. If everything is answered, you will not bring your own experiences and point of view to the show you are watching.

Last week IO9.com had an article on 50 Questions Lost Really Does Need To Answer, I didn't agree that all of them needed explanation, but there are some damn good ones that didn't get resolved.

- If Jacob was a Roman, why is he so into Egyptian gods?

- Why was Charlie fated to die, exactly? What did Charlie's death accomplish, in the end?

- Why was Libby in the same mental hospital as Hurley? What's her deal exactly? Why was she in Australia?

- What was so special about Walt? No, really. They made a big deal out of it and everything.

- Why did the Incident in 1977 leave the island's women unable to give birth? What's with the huge importance placed on fertility on the island, what with the Tawaret statue? Why are so many women separated from their babies?

- So why was Widmore unable to return to the island? And then why was he able to return to the island after all? Also, why did turning the donkey wheel mean that Ben was unable to return to the island, except with the Oceanic Six?

- What was the Sickness that the Dharma Initiative was vaccinating people against? Is it similar to the Smoke Monster "claiming" people, or something else?

Reading through all those questions (some of which, amazingly, got pretty good answers) has made me realize my biggest problem with the show is not simply strange events with no explanation, but self-contradictory events with no explanation. In speculative fiction I can accept a great number of things that are strange without needing an explanation, but when a world's fiction seems at odds with itself, that's when I really want some examination. It's hard to travel to and from the island? Fine, but when you have people coming and going with regularity and someone knows the rules, I expect at least some explanation as to why the rules of travel are different for different people.

Mav, you're an idiot. I'm sorry, I'm not being insulting, it's just fact. (Vincent RANDOMLY being there?! Did you even watch the pilot?)

That was some great fucking television. Few works of fiction get to my tear ducts. This did.


Oh man. So awesome. "This is a place that you all made together so that you could find one another."

Thank you for these 6 years, Lost crew, I know they had their ups and downs and some out right shitty moments... but you make me remember why television is a valid medium for art, even if the less talented crocks of the world keep trying to invalidate that. Thank you.

Mav said:

Well, the majority of fans are hating the finale. The New York Times has critically panned it for answering absolutely nothing and just bringing up even more fucking questions.

This is how you fuck up good tv. Seriously, shit like this makes me want to cancel my cable tv service, why fuck am I paying for tv when this is the type of shit we get? There's no good science fiction left on tv these days.. Shit ass writing like this is why. Just when I thought a duo of writers could not top Berman and Braga's complete and utter pissing on the Star Trek franchise, Lindenof or whatever, took it to the next level of shittery.

Talk about a long con. 6 years those bastards strung us along until this....

Anyone want to buy some Lost dvds? Got seasons 1-5, selling cheap, proceeds can be donated to the Writers Guild to help pay for quality

Click to expand...

Berman and Braga's Enterprise was so despised fans wanted to keep it from getting canceled: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/5500.html

Mav ol' buddy: Your opinion doesn't equal the opinion of everyone else, so stop trying to sway it that way.

As to the ending of Lost: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ce...t_instant_reaction_to_the_s.html?hpid=artslot

The majority of Lost fans liked it.

Man, you're as bad as those morons who bitch and moan about George Lucas releasing a new edition of Star Wars every couple years; at the same time bending over and accepting his penis into their wallets.

It was a brilliant last episode that was tempered by the last 5 minutes. In a way, it was pretty satisfying but I also felt a bit cheated, like all the time spent on the "alternate" time line was a bit of a red herring just to catch the viewer (and for no other reason). They did this once before when they did a flash forward for Sun and a flash back for Jin that served no other purpose than to fool the viewer. It is a bit unsatisfying to realize you've been misled but without any real payoff. Usually the misleading has some consequences that make you reinterpret what you've been seeing but in this case, there really isn't much to reinterpret. You can just look back and say, "I guess that happened the way we saw it." That's why people dread encountering the "it was all a dream" ending, I think. And while LOST was NOT all a dream, it was partially a dream in that the "alternate" time line required people to wake up from it. So they did a great job of tying up relationships (sorry, Mav, but THAT is what good storytelling is about) but they gave us a fake (Desmond indicated they were leaving, which may be somewhat right but disingenuous) and then replaced it with a weak payoff. I was loving the episode until the final reveal, though, and then it felt a bit empty...

I watched the first 3 episodes of season 1, enjoyed it, but the family wound up watching something else. In those pre (for me) DVR days, that meant I wound up not following through. And just never motivated myself to watch on DVD.

But I was intrigued enough to watch last night. And with what I had read up over the months online, I wasn't all that confused.

That being said, it seemed like the finale was geared much more towards viewers like me than to the real hard core detail oriented fans. The put a nice little bow on everyone's journey, focusing on the characters and their relationships with each other, with just a passing care towards the mysteries of the island.

I'm sure a lot of people care about the details of what the hell was going on with the cave and the light and what it all meant. For me, I saw it as "ok, that guy is letting the water out of the tub, and the island doesn't like it, got it..."

I'm just not sure how anyone seeking answers would have been satisfied. Can you imagine if it had been like the end of a Sherlock Holmes novel, and it was just two and a half hours of exposition that tied up all the loose ends and explained away every mystery that ever came up? That would have sucked hard.

Besides, it's a TV show. They could have made up whatever they wanted for explanations, most of which would have sucked. "Oh, it was all God's Doing" or "Aliens were responsible for all the mysterious happenings" or "Hurley dreamed the whole thing in a buffalo wing-fueled nightmare".

Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.

Meh, once everyone started talking about "going away" i started catching on what was going on, but i was really hoping for something else, as that is kind of a stock ending really... and a bit rude actually seeing how that was one of the theories about the island which the fans brought up all the time only to have it shot down...

And of course once it was down to just one extra length episode it was pretty obvious we weren't gonna get many more answers... but c'mon, they could have included more...

Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.

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Dying as they lived, completely ignorant of what the hell was going on...

I liked Tolkien's way better... 2-3 mysteries remaining so out of 1000 is way better then them obviously making stuff up because they never actually intended to explain it, because character drama masks anything...

But i guess Lost has been consistent in that regard at least, the mysteries where always just decorum.

Berman and Braga's Enterprise was so despised fans wanted to keep it from getting canceled: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...icle/5500.html

Click to expand...

Seeing how it was getting cancelled (and it did right after it started getting interesting, probably because of the change in showrunner) i don't think you can say it wasn't a failure.

@Li3n said:

Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.

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Dying as they lived, completely ignorant of what the hell was going on...

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Show me someone this doesn't apply to in the real world, and I'll show you someone who's deluded.

Fun Size said:

I'm just not sure how anyone seeking answers would have been satisfied. Can you imagine if it had been like the end of a Sherlock Holmes novel, and it was just two and a half hours of exposition that tied up all the loose ends and explained away every mystery that ever came up? That would have sucked hard.

Besides, it's a TV show. They could have made up whatever they wanted for explanations, most of which would have sucked. "Oh, it was all God's Doing" or "Aliens were responsible for all the mysterious happenings" or "Hurley dreamed the whole thing in a buffalo wing-fueled nightmare".

Better to simply focus on the people they spent the last six years making you care about and their stories coming to an end.

Click to expand...

Well, I think that most answer-seekers were hoping for some kind of single revelation or two that was cleverly designed from the beginning, and makes all the bizarre oddities make more sense by adding another context on a second watch-through.

I specifically didn't watch the show because I knew that such a simple revelation is more or less impossible to have during the run of a six-season television show. That kind of thing only works in shorter-run narrative, like a movie, a single season of a show, or a comic series.

For example, let's take a look at Shutter Island's ending, which is perhaps not the best twist out there, but follows what I'm getting at:


A good example in another medium is the webcomic Inverloch (one of the first webcomics I ever discovered, and the first one that I was ever able to read through all the way to the story's end). In it, some of the tiniest, innocuous details that you forget about on the first read-through can be seen in a completely different light on the second read-through.

But, as far as I understand, none of these odd details in lost are given a different context after the ending. Hence, the disappointment.

I loved the ending.

Anyone who was so caught up in the details that they couldn't take the ending for what it was has severely missed the point of the entire show, I'm sorry. From day one it has always been about the characters and their personal journeys and interactions. The finale closed all their journeys, and did it excellently. That's all that was truly needed and it was supremely delivered.

This reminds me of how people reacted to the BSG ending, which though not as god as Lost's, similarly closed all of the personal stories of the characters.

Let me try and wrap my head around this.

The alternate universe was a way for Losties to reach the afterlife. Everyone in it died. Some deaths we've seen, but others we're left to assume happened sometime after Jack died on the island. Hurley and Ben lived for however long as the new Jacob and Richard? Meanwhile the old Richard, Miles, Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate and Miles all left the island and had, presumably, happy lives? Once Kate and Sawyer die they end up in this purgatory for a while, but none of the others from the successful plane do? Or some of them do, like Miles who is a detective but not in the church? What about Daniel and Charlotte, they didn't get a realisation of having died even though we saw both their deaths on the island?

What about the two nobody liked who got buried alive?

What about Eko?



Mav is right, fuck this ending.

It's about the characters, but I can't feel like things were wrapped up for the characters if I don't know what happened to the characters. The ending evoked a lot of vague happy feelings, but it didn't have much impact for me because it didn't have enough substance to feel like the characters really had a happy ending instead of an illusion.

Turns out the real twist is it was just a TV show all along.

Was talking with a co-worker who was a real heavy duty fan. She hosted a theme party with Dharma Soda and chocolate bars etc...

And the general feeling was: even if answers weren't provided, at least make it clear that there WERE answers. Give us the broad strokes. If you don't want to explain WHY certain things were important, at least make it clear that there WAS a specific reason. Other than "because we said so."

The light int he cave. It's important. Doesn't matter what it is or how it works..but at least show us that it's not JUST a clogged bath tub drain. And stop INSISTING that answers will be given.

I just wish that more people thought the ending sucked. That way I could gloat more.

Oh, well...

People thought the ending of the Sopranos sucked too.

People are idiots.

So it's idiotic to wonder why they bothered with all that Walt business? Turned out it had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

The finale on its own was excellent. Just a pity the finale made the previous five seasons redundant.

The Mex said:

People thought the ending of the Sopranos sucked too.

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The Sopranos ending was perfect. There would have been no way to make an ending that satisfied everyone. They did it in a way everyone watching could make their own ending. If they would have had a guy come in and kill Tony and/or the family it would have seemed a cop out. When I was watching it I had several different endings going through my head and none were satisfying. When they went to black I thought "brilliant."
To me Lost was the same way. It was really opened for interpretation. If they would have tried to explain every detail it would have seemed cheap. You don't need every series ending to tie up in a pretty bow. I think some people have built up an ending in their mind that would have never been lived up to regardless of what they did.
Did anyone watch Jimmy Kimmel after Lost? He had an audience that just finished watching the episode and the cast on his show to discuss and he had some pretty good insight to the episode although it was his interpretation. The final show may not have answered every question but it did give closure to the relationships the audience has built up with the cast and the final scene with the dog was fantastic.

Veteran said:

So it's idiotic to wonder why they bothered with all that Walt business? Turned out it had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

The finale on its own was excellent. Just a pity the finale made the previous five seasons redundant.

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....no, it's idiotic to blame the finale for the Walt business. It's more than known that the writers didn't account for the actor who played Walt growing up so fast, specially considering that the show's timeline was way, way slower than real life. Weeks for them were literally years for us.

Walt has been out of the picture for, what, 3 seasons? And you wanted him to be explained in the finale? Yes, that's idiotic.

The finale did what it was supposed to. And you know what? Saying that "the finale made the previous five seasons redundant" is idiotic too, because you NEED those 5 seasons of growing to care for these characters. That's where the finale hits home, that's the pay off.. seeing characters that have literally been part of our lives for years having closure. So, no, the finale "on its own" was not excellent.. it needed AAAALLL those hours of back story. So score another for the idiotic tally.

I've not watched this show except for about 20 minutes in the middle of season 2, but I am gonna say I think you have it backwards from a storytelling POV, Calleja. You seem to be saying those five years are to justify a great ending, but I think those five years shouldn't be nullified by said ending--in other words, the ending should serve the story before it, not the story before the end should serve the end.

I don't think I'll ever watch this; I never could muster up caring about it all these years. I do think anyone who expected to end differently should've known better. Did they learn nothing from The X-Files?

I did see an episode that guest-starred nathan fillion. So I guess it's at least got that going for it.

I watched it, tears running down my face during every single time someone remembered the previous life. Most especially during all the romantic couple reunions. Sayid & Shannon's reunion was one I didn't see coming at all and good lord, I bawled.

As for the ending? I feel cheapened. I thought it was a happy ending reality made by Jacob, to reward everyone after (hopefully) defeating Smokey. But no, they're all dead. It's not as cheap as Starbuck's "reveal" at the end of Battlestar and overall, it was always about the characters. I didn't even realize just how many romantic couples there were in the show until they started reuniting all of them.

Still, I don't know. I loved it, I was the edge of my seat and I was bawling my eyes out. But that ending. It was just...I don't know. For all this time that we've invested into the show and we get..."they're all dead"? Would it have been such a stretch to just have it be a rewarding alternate timeline for everyone? I thought that everyone in the OTHER reality would die in the end and then they'd all gradually "wake up" in the sideways timeline as we saw. I would have been fine with that and it would've felt a lot less cheap than investing in these characters for six seasons only to find that they're dead. Yeah, everyone dies in the end, but for what? Some stupid ageless battle between brothers that we never find out what was up with them OR the properties of the island? What was the bright light? What was so important about plugging up the bright bath tub?

I have this overall odd feeling of both satifaction (for seeing essentially a "happy" ending for everyone; happy in the sense that they're all together again, even if it's Heaven) and unsatisfaction due to a lot of BIG questions that were never answered.

ThatNickGuy said:

Would it have been such a stretch to just have it be a rewarding alternate timeline for everyone? I thought that everyone in the OTHER reality would die in the end and then they'd all gradually "wake up" in the sideways timeline as we saw. I would have been fine with that and it would've felt a lot less cheap than investing in these characters for six seasons only to find that they're dead.

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I loved it, but I agree. The idea of them "earning" a better existence for their actions and sacrifices was what I thought it was going to be, and I would have liked it more than the "moving on and upwards" thing.

Speaking of romantic couples and reuniting, wouldn't Sayid be with Nadia in the afterlife instead of Shannon? I mean yea he was leaning toward being in love with Shannon but their "romance" was so short lived before she got killed, and Sayids entire "dark" turn in Season 6 was to see Nadia again.. Or was Shannon just the spark to reignite his memory and he her memory?

See, stupid shit like that is what made the ending horrible. As for sources, read around my man, read around. Lot of people dislike it.

Oh, I'm convinced, then. If lots of people disliked it then that must mean it's horrible.

Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

You are entitled to your opinion all you want. I'm certainly not trying to change that, I can't.

I still think this was the worst written tv show finale, ever.

I'm in the process of registering HowToWriteLost.com, we'll be collecting all 100+ MAJOR plot holes and how each and everyone could have potentially be answered. As well as an in-depth analysis of how you completely and utterly drop the ball when it comes to tv writing. Seriously, someone at ABC needs to make heads roll over this, if this is the type of shit they allow writers to etch out on tv, someone is not really looking over their shoulder to you know, quality control this shit before it turns to actual shit. (Yes, I'm registering that domain, this is just too perfect an opportunity to pass up)

You are one disturbed individual.

I'm torn.

The ending was great from an emotional point of view; everyone got a happy ending, tears rolled, fuzzy feelings, whoopiedoo.

That said, the ending was utter crap from a story/plot POV. I don't mind open endings, but this plot had more holes than swiss cheese. The mysteries that made me keep watching remain, not untouched, simply tickled. Meh.

I don't think I'll recommend this show to anyone who generally likes to know how things work (circular venn-diagram for their target audience, anyone?). Still, it doesn't change the fact that it's been a great and very watchable show so far (with a few exceptions of "fillers" during the writers' strike), just a crappy ending IMHO.

Haeri said:

I'm torn.

The ending was great from an emotional point of view; everyone got a happy ending, tears rolled, fuzzy feelings, whoopiedoo.

That said, the ending was utter crap from a story/plot POV. I don't mind open endings, but this plot had more holes than swiss cheese. The mysteries that made me keep watching remain, not untouched, simply tickled. Meh.

I don't think I'll recommend this show to anyone who generally likes to know how things work (circular venn-diagram for their target audience, anyone?). Still, it doesn't change the fact that it's been a great and very watchable show so far (with a few exceptions of "fillers" during the writers' strike), just a crappy ending IMHO.

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I'm pretty sure the bolded part is what pissed everyone off. If you're going to build your show entirely around mysteries, the pay off is solving said mysteries. It would be like The Usual Suspects ending without the Kaiser Sose reveal.

Soze.

I'm ashamed I have to correct that, sir.

I'm curious... how much is the show about solving the mysteries? Because I don't mind movies and shows where mysteries remain unsolved, if the story itself isn't specifically about solving them.

For instance, I didn't mind in the least that we never found out why people stopped having kids in Children of Men, since the story wasn't about figuring it out -- it was about saving the girl. The mystery was just a context in which the story takes place.

So, my question is: is the mysterious island just a context for the entire story, or is a lot of the story devoted to trying to figure it out?

The Mex said:

The finale did what it was supposed to. And you know what? Saying that "the finale made the previous five seasons redundant" is idiotic too, because you NEED those 5 seasons of growing to care for these characters. That's where the finale hits home, that's the pay off.. seeing characters that have literally been part of our lives for years having closure. So, no, the finale "on its own" was not excellent.. it needed AAAALLL those hours of back story. So score another for the idiotic tally.

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Yeah, we've been with these characters through all sorts of crap. We've seen them abducted, placed in cages, tortured, sent back in time and killed. So naturally the finale would hopefully payoff big in the invensted emotion department. But what I got from the finale was that everything that happened to the characters in the previous 5 seasons served ONLY to get us to care about them.

You can't just do anything to the characters for unexplained reasons. It's drama for the sake of drama. They may as well have had skeletons jump out of the ground and chase the losties around for a few seasons and the finale could stay exactly the same. Lazy storywriting.

Given that we never find out things about Jacob, Smokey, the light, etc, then yeah, it does matter a little. We never find out what or why exactly they were fighting so goddamn hard.

I think the problem is very simple: they waited WAY too long to reveal Jacob/MiB. By the time we even knew about them, there wasn't enough time to dwell properly into it. On top of that, the episode with Jacob/MiB only added more questions when it should have answered some. The show was honestly started to answer a lot of questions around the end of season 4 and throughout seasons 5 and 6. If they had kept up with that, it would have been fine.

---------- Post added at 05:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 AM ----------

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_End

Some interesting notes makes me appreciate the amount of work put into mirroring things in the show. It still doesn't make me like the ending any more, but it does make me appreciate everything else more.

Also:

"Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was offered a guest spot in this episode, but negotiations failed as it is claimed he asked for a fee five times what he was offered."

Seriously? Mr. Eko was one of my favourite characters. But with that kind of attitude? Screw him.

Soliloquy said:

I'm curious... how much is the show about solving the mysteries? Because I don't mind movies and shows where mysteries remain unsolved, if the story itself isn't specifically about solving them.

For instance, I didn't mind in the least that we never found out why people stopped having kids in Children of Men, since the story wasn't about figuring it out -- it was about saving the girl. The mystery was just a context in which the story takes place.

So, my question is: is the mysterious island just a context for the entire story, or is a lot of the story devoted to trying to figure it out?

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About solving them... none of the show was about that because they never actually did...

But it'd say the mysteries where half the attraction of the show... the characters and their character development where the other half... you peple defending it, think about if it was the other way around, we got closure forthe mysteries but not for the characters... that would have been just a fun.

As it stands you could take out 80% of the stuff that happened on the island and the ending would still stand as well as it does now (even better actually without all the lingering questions).

And if they're gonna use the purgatory excuse it really would have worked better if the island was it... As it stands "they all ended up happy after death" felt too generic... i'm sure Sun and Jin's kid had fun being an orphan. Or maybe i'm just very jaded to endings where everyone is happy in death...

The Mex said:

People thought the ending of the Sopranos sucked too.

People are idiots.

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That ending made it pretty clear it was a parallel to Tony's dad getting killed... i got that even after only watching only a quarter of the show and only seeing that scene... leaving whether or not Tony and/or his family dies an open question is completely different then ignoring half the stuff people wanted to know for no actual reason (except that you where just making it up as you went).

I liked the ending. I have a feeling that if they offered an answer to the source of the light, it would never live up to what we want. Personally I'm ok with allowing my own imagination decide what the island was. The attraction to the show for me has always been making my own conclusions to the mysteries with the little hints they drop.

I can see why people are upset about not having the answers given to them. The show was never about giving concrete answers though. Every single answer given in the last 6 years has simply given us 2 more questions. I don't know why you would expect that to change.

I think @Li3n (whose name is a monstrous pain in the ass to type, and will heretofore be known as "Mr. Brainy Face") hit it right on the head. For me, the show was about the journey the characters were on. The mysteries made it interesting, but at no point did I say to myself, "Well if they don't explain that at some point then to Hell with all of this". They were just something to watch the characters react to and deal with. As such, the ending felt fine to me. And yeah, if they had taken more time to explain more stuff but left off wrapping up the character stories, I would have probably been satisfied but left feeling empty. So I suppose it depended on what you were in it for.

However, this is the internet, so let's just all agree that people with differing opinions are completely wrong and should be dragged out into the street and shot.

My thoughts on the end:

As a conclusion for the characters it worked well. As a conclusion for me as a viewer it didn't work. Having the "alternate timeline" be the after life felt like a cop out and was very underwhelming imo. I also wanted more details about the Island, it just being "magical" isn't satisfying and really needed more explanation since that is the biggest question in the show.

For the other timeline I was actually hoping that it was really a different timeline created by the nuclear detonation and that the losties would have to chose which timeline they would prefer survived, or in which they would live. It would have been really interesting to see who would have stayed on the the Island and who would have gone over to the "Jacob" free timeline.

Veteran said:

Hurley and Ben lived for however long as the new Jacob and Richard? Meanwhile the old Richard, Miles, Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate and Miles all left the island and had, presumably, happy lives?

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Maybe? Who cares. Miles had millions of dollars from Nikki/Paolo's diamonds, at least. They were free of the island.

Once Kate and Sawyer die they end up in this purgatory for a while, but none of the others from the successful plane do? Or some of them do, like Miles who is a detective but not in the church? What about Daniel and Charlotte, they didn't get a realisation of having died even though we saw both their deaths on the island?

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The others in the successful plane weren't as important/part of the core group and all. Or they weren't ready yet, like Ana-Lucia and Ben. Daniel wasn't ready since his mother was still kind of holding him back/spoiling him rotten in an attempt to gain penance.

What about the two nobody liked who got buried alive?

What about Eko?



Mav is right, fuck this ending.

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Nikki/Paolo and Eko in the grand scheme of things, meant nothing to the core group of people in the church at the end. So of course they weren't there.


Mav, I support your website idea and I just want you to know I am masturbating furiously every time you froth at the mouth.

Well, to be fair, Eko wasn't there because...the actor didn't agree to the payment he'd get for the episode. So, it has less to do with the story, and more to do with the fact that they couldn't get the actor.


Overall, I guess I neither loved nor hated the episode. Honestly, after seeing the direction this season was taking, I pretty much knew they weren't going to really "answer" the questions. So, I just took it for what it was. I guess, yes, I didn't need every question answered, I didn't need to know what the light was...but there are some questions that were so pivotal to the show, that it would have been nice to have answered. The numbers, for instance. They were a huge part of the first two seasons, yet they sort of just got shuffled under the carpet. I guess the answer was "Jacob has a thing for numbers". really? that's the answer? Fuck you. I'd rather have NO answer than something like that, I guess.

As to "wrapping up the story of the characters", I don't know, did it really wrap anything up? To me it seemed like an extended version of just saying..."and they all lived happily ever after". Which, I suppose you can argue it made Lost a magical fairy tale, which it sort of was.

Anyway, whatever my feelings are about the last season, it won't take away the fact that the first two seasons, and maybe even the third, were some of the best TV I've ever watched.

Well... this is my guess, from what we know about Desmond and Smokey:

The Light was an electromagnetic field (hence why they needed Desmond) that permeated the Island and kept the Smoke monster trapped on the Island (which is likely what those pylons and fences generated, in order to keep Smokey from killing all the Dharma and Whidmore teams). It was the result of some kind of ancient electromagnet down inside that cave that was designed to keep Smokey trapped on the Island so it wouldn't go around killing everyone on Earth. The stone inside was basically a fuse or superconductor because once it was moved, the "circuit" for the machine/magic/whatever was broken and the Island began to collapse because the magnetism flowing through the rocks was likely the only thing keeping it together. It would certainly explain the highly magnetic rocks that the Man in Black found in the past when his group was digging the hole for the Wheel.

tl;dr version - The Light was a result of the electromagnetic field holding the Island together and basically served as a way of knowing that no, Humanity wasn't going to die at the hands of a horrible smoke monster.

Questions this Theory doesn't answer: Why did it make Smokey Mortal? I suppose the Electromagnatism could have fueled his powers or something, and Jacob just didn't shut the machine off because doing so would violate the "Can't Kill My Brother" clause of the spell his Mom put on him, but nothing from the show really supports that Smokey is powered by the Island itself.

I found an "explanation" of the finale that was supposedly written by one of the writers... I put it in a new thread so we can concentrate on the finale and maybe avoid the imminent locking this thread is headed to when people interact with Mav's craziness?

http://www.halforums.com/forum/showthread.php?13546-Lost-Finale-Explained&p=389572

So, how 'bout that Lost final?

A wizard did it.

A bunch of stuff happened, and then they all went to heaven.

Rocks fell, everybody died...but not all at once.

And then, a bunch of them made-out with each other.

Just finished it. and i think i really liked it. it definitely had the emotional punch it needed. especially each time the sideways characters get that flash of recognition. as for all the stuff left unexplained? i... don't mind that much. the 'its about the characters' angle worked a lot better for it than in the BSG finale, though i seem to be in the minority of people who liked that ending too >.>
it was nice to see the bookends, really. too many of those to count though.
also? michael giacchino *really* deserves more credit than he gets. the whole series score has been phenomenal, especially the ending.

TeKeo said:

Rocks fell, everybody died...but not all at once.

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They all lost the Game.