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Soliloquy
I just wish that more people thought the ending sucked. That way I could gloat more.
Oh, well...
Oh, well...
Lost: The Final Season (un-marked spoilers as it airs on the East Coast)
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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V
Veteran
So it's idiotic to wonder why they bothered with all that Walt business? Turned out it had absolutely nothing to do with anything.
The finale on its own was excellent. Just a pity the finale made the previous five seasons redundant.
The finale on its own was excellent. Just a pity the finale made the previous five seasons redundant.
The Sopranos ending was perfect. There would have been no way to make an ending that satisfied everyone. They did it in a way everyone watching could make their own ending. If they would have had a guy come in and kill Tony and/or the family it would have seemed a cop out. When I was watching it I had several different endings going through my head and none were satisfying. When they went to black I thought "brilliant."
To me Lost was the same way. It was really opened for interpretation. If they would have tried to explain every detail it would have seemed cheap. You don't need every series ending to tie up in a pretty bow. I think some people have built up an ending in their mind that would have never been lived up to regardless of what they did.
Did anyone watch Jimmy Kimmel after Lost? He had an audience that just finished watching the episode and the cast on his show to discuss and he had some pretty good insight to the episode although it was his interpretation. The final show may not have answered every question but it did give closure to the relationships the audience has built up with the cast and the final scene with the dog was fantastic.
....no, it's idiotic to blame the finale for the Walt business. It's more than known that the writers didn't account for the actor who played Walt growing up so fast, specially considering that the show's timeline was way, way slower than real life. Weeks for them were literally years for us.
Walt has been out of the picture for, what, 3 seasons? And you wanted him to be explained in the finale? Yes, that's idiotic.
The finale did what it was supposed to. And you know what? Saying that "the finale made the previous five seasons redundant" is idiotic too, because you NEED those 5 seasons of growing to care for these characters. That's where the finale hits home, that's the pay off.. seeing characters that have literally been part of our lives for years having closure. So, no, the finale "on its own" was not excellent.. it needed AAAALLL those hours of back story. So score another for the idiotic tally.
I've not watched this show except for about 20 minutes in the middle of season 2, but I am gonna say I think you have it backwards from a storytelling POV, Calleja. You seem to be saying those five years are to justify a great ending, but I think those five years shouldn't be nullified by said ending--in other words, the ending should serve the story before it, not the story before the end should serve the end.
I don't think I'll ever watch this; I never could muster up caring about it all these years. I do think anyone who expected to end differently should've known better. Did they learn nothing from The X-Files?
I don't think I'll ever watch this; I never could muster up caring about it all these years. I do think anyone who expected to end differently should've known better. Did they learn nothing from The X-Files?
S
Soliloquy
I did see an episode that guest-starred nathan fillion. So I guess it's at least got that going for it.
I watched it, tears running down my face during every single time someone remembered the previous life. Most especially during all the romantic couple reunions. Sayid & Shannon's reunion was one I didn't see coming at all and good lord, I bawled.
As for the ending? I feel cheapened. I thought it was a happy ending reality made by Jacob, to reward everyone after (hopefully) defeating Smokey. But no, they're all dead. It's not as cheap as Starbuck's "reveal" at the end of Battlestar and overall, it was always about the characters. I didn't even realize just how many romantic couples there were in the show until they started reuniting all of them.
Still, I don't know. I loved it, I was the edge of my seat and I was bawling my eyes out. But that ending. It was just...I don't know. For all this time that we've invested into the show and we get..."they're all dead"? Would it have been such a stretch to just have it be a rewarding alternate timeline for everyone? I thought that everyone in the OTHER reality would die in the end and then they'd all gradually "wake up" in the sideways timeline as we saw. I would have been fine with that and it would've felt a lot less cheap than investing in these characters for six seasons only to find that they're dead. Yeah, everyone dies in the end, but for what? Some stupid ageless battle between brothers that we never find out what was up with them OR the properties of the island? What was the bright light? What was so important about plugging up the bright bath tub?
I have this overall odd feeling of both satifaction (for seeing essentially a "happy" ending for everyone; happy in the sense that they're all together again, even if it's Heaven) and unsatisfaction due to a lot of BIG questions that were never answered.
As for the ending? I feel cheapened. I thought it was a happy ending reality made by Jacob, to reward everyone after (hopefully) defeating Smokey. But no, they're all dead. It's not as cheap as Starbuck's "reveal" at the end of Battlestar and overall, it was always about the characters. I didn't even realize just how many romantic couples there were in the show until they started reuniting all of them.
Still, I don't know. I loved it, I was the edge of my seat and I was bawling my eyes out. But that ending. It was just...I don't know. For all this time that we've invested into the show and we get..."they're all dead"? Would it have been such a stretch to just have it be a rewarding alternate timeline for everyone? I thought that everyone in the OTHER reality would die in the end and then they'd all gradually "wake up" in the sideways timeline as we saw. I would have been fine with that and it would've felt a lot less cheap than investing in these characters for six seasons only to find that they're dead. Yeah, everyone dies in the end, but for what? Some stupid ageless battle between brothers that we never find out what was up with them OR the properties of the island? What was the bright light? What was so important about plugging up the bright bath tub?
I have this overall odd feeling of both satifaction (for seeing essentially a "happy" ending for everyone; happy in the sense that they're all together again, even if it's Heaven) and unsatisfaction due to a lot of BIG questions that were never answered.
I loved it, but I agree. The idea of them "earning" a better existence for their actions and sacrifices was what I thought it was going to be, and I would have liked it more than the "moving on and upwards" thing.
R
Rubicon
Speaking of romantic couples and reuniting, wouldn't Sayid be with Nadia in the afterlife instead of Shannon? I mean yea he was leaning toward being in love with Shannon but their "romance" was so short lived before she got killed, and Sayids entire "dark" turn in Season 6 was to see Nadia again.. Or was Shannon just the spark to reignite his memory and he her memory?
See, stupid shit like that is what made the ending horrible. As for sources, read around my man, read around. Lot of people dislike it.
See, stupid shit like that is what made the ending horrible. As for sources, read around my man, read around. Lot of people dislike it.
Oh, I'm convinced, then. If lots of people disliked it then that must mean it's horrible.
Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Oh, wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
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Rubicon
You are entitled to your opinion all you want. I'm certainly not trying to change that, I can't.
I still think this was the worst written tv show finale, ever.
I'm in the process of registering HowToWriteLost.com, we'll be collecting all 100+ MAJOR plot holes and how each and everyone could have potentially be answered. As well as an in-depth analysis of how you completely and utterly drop the ball when it comes to tv writing. Seriously, someone at ABC needs to make heads roll over this, if this is the type of shit they allow writers to etch out on tv, someone is not really looking over their shoulder to you know, quality control this shit before it turns to actual shit. (Yes, I'm registering that domain, this is just too perfect an opportunity to pass up)
I still think this was the worst written tv show finale, ever.
I'm in the process of registering HowToWriteLost.com, we'll be collecting all 100+ MAJOR plot holes and how each and everyone could have potentially be answered. As well as an in-depth analysis of how you completely and utterly drop the ball when it comes to tv writing. Seriously, someone at ABC needs to make heads roll over this, if this is the type of shit they allow writers to etch out on tv, someone is not really looking over their shoulder to you know, quality control this shit before it turns to actual shit. (Yes, I'm registering that domain, this is just too perfect an opportunity to pass up)
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Haeri
I'm torn.
The ending was great from an emotional point of view; everyone got a happy ending, tears rolled, fuzzy feelings, whoopiedoo.
That said, the ending was utter crap from a story/plot POV. I don't mind open endings, but this plot had more holes than swiss cheese. The mysteries that made me keep watching remain, not untouched, simply tickled. Meh.
I don't think I'll recommend this show to anyone who generally likes to know how things work (circular venn-diagram for their target audience, anyone?). Still, it doesn't change the fact that it's been a great and very watchable show so far (with a few exceptions of "fillers" during the writers' strike), just a crappy ending IMHO.
The ending was great from an emotional point of view; everyone got a happy ending, tears rolled, fuzzy feelings, whoopiedoo.
That said, the ending was utter crap from a story/plot POV. I don't mind open endings, but this plot had more holes than swiss cheese. The mysteries that made me keep watching remain, not untouched, simply tickled. Meh.
I don't think I'll recommend this show to anyone who generally likes to know how things work (circular venn-diagram for their target audience, anyone?). Still, it doesn't change the fact that it's been a great and very watchable show so far (with a few exceptions of "fillers" during the writers' strike), just a crappy ending IMHO.
I'm pretty sure the bolded part is what pissed everyone off. If you're going to build your show entirely around mysteries, the pay off is solving said mysteries. It would be like The Usual Suspects ending without the Kaiser Sose reveal.
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Soliloquy
I'm curious... how much is the show about solving the mysteries? Because I don't mind movies and shows where mysteries remain unsolved, if the story itself isn't specifically about solving them.
For instance, I didn't mind in the least that we never found out why people stopped having kids in Children of Men, since the story wasn't about figuring it out -- it was about saving the girl. The mystery was just a context in which the story takes place.
So, my question is: is the mysterious island just a context for the entire story, or is a lot of the story devoted to trying to figure it out?
For instance, I didn't mind in the least that we never found out why people stopped having kids in Children of Men, since the story wasn't about figuring it out -- it was about saving the girl. The mystery was just a context in which the story takes place.
So, my question is: is the mysterious island just a context for the entire story, or is a lot of the story devoted to trying to figure it out?
V
Veteran
Yeah, we've been with these characters through all sorts of crap. We've seen them abducted, placed in cages, tortured, sent back in time and killed. So naturally the finale would hopefully payoff big in the invensted emotion department. But what I got from the finale was that everything that happened to the characters in the previous 5 seasons served ONLY to get us to care about them.
You can't just do anything to the characters for unexplained reasons. It's drama for the sake of drama. They may as well have had skeletons jump out of the ground and chase the losties around for a few seasons and the finale could stay exactly the same. Lazy storywriting.
Given that we never find out things about Jacob, Smokey, the light, etc, then yeah, it does matter a little. We never find out what or why exactly they were fighting so goddamn hard.
I think the problem is very simple: they waited WAY too long to reveal Jacob/MiB. By the time we even knew about them, there wasn't enough time to dwell properly into it. On top of that, the episode with Jacob/MiB only added more questions when it should have answered some. The show was honestly started to answer a lot of questions around the end of season 4 and throughout seasons 5 and 6. If they had kept up with that, it would have been fine.
---------- Post added at 05:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 AM ----------
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_End
Some interesting notes makes me appreciate the amount of work put into mirroring things in the show. It still doesn't make me like the ending any more, but it does make me appreciate everything else more.
Also:
"Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was offered a guest spot in this episode, but negotiations failed as it is claimed he asked for a fee five times what he was offered."
Seriously? Mr. Eko was one of my favourite characters. But with that kind of attitude? Screw him.
I think the problem is very simple: they waited WAY too long to reveal Jacob/MiB. By the time we even knew about them, there wasn't enough time to dwell properly into it. On top of that, the episode with Jacob/MiB only added more questions when it should have answered some. The show was honestly started to answer a lot of questions around the end of season 4 and throughout seasons 5 and 6. If they had kept up with that, it would have been fine.
---------- Post added at 05:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 AM ----------
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_End
Some interesting notes makes me appreciate the amount of work put into mirroring things in the show. It still doesn't make me like the ending any more, but it does make me appreciate everything else more.
Also:
"Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was offered a guest spot in this episode, but negotiations failed as it is claimed he asked for a fee five times what he was offered."
Seriously? Mr. Eko was one of my favourite characters. But with that kind of attitude? Screw him.
About solving them... none of the show was about that because they never actually did...
But it'd say the mysteries where half the attraction of the show... the characters and their character development where the other half... you peple defending it, think about if it was the other way around, we got closure forthe mysteries but not for the characters... that would have been just a fun.
As it stands you could take out 80% of the stuff that happened on the island and the ending would still stand as well as it does now (even better actually without all the lingering questions).
And if they're gonna use the purgatory excuse it really would have worked better if the island was it... As it stands "they all ended up happy after death" felt too generic... i'm sure Sun and Jin's kid had fun being an orphan. Or maybe i'm just very jaded to endings where everyone is happy in death...
That ending made it pretty clear it was a parallel to Tony's dad getting killed... i got that even after only watching only a quarter of the show and only seeing that scene... leaving whether or not Tony and/or his family dies an open question is completely different then ignoring half the stuff people wanted to know for no actual reason (except that you where just making it up as you went).
I liked the ending. I have a feeling that if they offered an answer to the source of the light, it would never live up to what we want. Personally I'm ok with allowing my own imagination decide what the island was. The attraction to the show for me has always been making my own conclusions to the mysteries with the little hints they drop.
I can see why people are upset about not having the answers given to them. The show was never about giving concrete answers though. Every single answer given in the last 6 years has simply given us 2 more questions. I don't know why you would expect that to change.
I can see why people are upset about not having the answers given to them. The show was never about giving concrete answers though. Every single answer given in the last 6 years has simply given us 2 more questions. I don't know why you would expect that to change.
I think @Li3n (whose name is a monstrous pain in the ass to type, and will heretofore be known as "Mr. Brainy Face") hit it right on the head. For me, the show was about the journey the characters were on. The mysteries made it interesting, but at no point did I say to myself, "Well if they don't explain that at some point then to Hell with all of this". They were just something to watch the characters react to and deal with. As such, the ending felt fine to me. And yeah, if they had taken more time to explain more stuff but left off wrapping up the character stories, I would have probably been satisfied but left feeling empty. So I suppose it depended on what you were in it for.
However, this is the internet, so let's just all agree that people with differing opinions are completely wrong and should be dragged out into the street and shot.
However, this is the internet, so let's just all agree that people with differing opinions are completely wrong and should be dragged out into the street and shot.
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Wyrminarrd
My thoughts on the end:
As a conclusion for the characters it worked well. As a conclusion for me as a viewer it didn't work. Having the "alternate timeline" be the after life felt like a cop out and was very underwhelming imo. I also wanted more details about the Island, it just being "magical" isn't satisfying and really needed more explanation since that is the biggest question in the show.
For the other timeline I was actually hoping that it was really a different timeline created by the nuclear detonation and that the losties would have to chose which timeline they would prefer survived, or in which they would live. It would have been really interesting to see who would have stayed on the the Island and who would have gone over to the "Jacob" free timeline.
As a conclusion for the characters it worked well. As a conclusion for me as a viewer it didn't work. Having the "alternate timeline" be the after life felt like a cop out and was very underwhelming imo. I also wanted more details about the Island, it just being "magical" isn't satisfying and really needed more explanation since that is the biggest question in the show.
For the other timeline I was actually hoping that it was really a different timeline created by the nuclear detonation and that the losties would have to chose which timeline they would prefer survived, or in which they would live. It would have been really interesting to see who would have stayed on the the Island and who would have gone over to the "Jacob" free timeline.
Maybe? Who cares. Miles had millions of dollars from Nikki/Paolo's diamonds, at least. They were free of the island.
The others in the successful plane weren't as important/part of the core group and all. Or they weren't ready yet, like Ana-Lucia and Ben. Daniel wasn't ready since his mother was still kind of holding him back/spoiling him rotten in an attempt to gain penance.
Nikki/Paolo and Eko in the grand scheme of things, meant nothing to the core group of people in the church at the end. So of course they weren't there.
Mav, I support your website idea and I just want you to know I am masturbating furiously every time you froth at the mouth.
J
Joe Johnson
Well, to be fair, Eko wasn't there because...the actor didn't agree to the payment he'd get for the episode. So, it has less to do with the story, and more to do with the fact that they couldn't get the actor.
Overall, I guess I neither loved nor hated the episode. Honestly, after seeing the direction this season was taking, I pretty much knew they weren't going to really "answer" the questions. So, I just took it for what it was. I guess, yes, I didn't need every question answered, I didn't need to know what the light was...but there are some questions that were so pivotal to the show, that it would have been nice to have answered. The numbers, for instance. They were a huge part of the first two seasons, yet they sort of just got shuffled under the carpet. I guess the answer was "Jacob has a thing for numbers". really? that's the answer? Fuck you. I'd rather have NO answer than something like that, I guess.
As to "wrapping up the story of the characters", I don't know, did it really wrap anything up? To me it seemed like an extended version of just saying..."and they all lived happily ever after". Which, I suppose you can argue it made Lost a magical fairy tale, which it sort of was.
Anyway, whatever my feelings are about the last season, it won't take away the fact that the first two seasons, and maybe even the third, were some of the best TV I've ever watched.
Overall, I guess I neither loved nor hated the episode. Honestly, after seeing the direction this season was taking, I pretty much knew they weren't going to really "answer" the questions. So, I just took it for what it was. I guess, yes, I didn't need every question answered, I didn't need to know what the light was...but there are some questions that were so pivotal to the show, that it would have been nice to have answered. The numbers, for instance. They were a huge part of the first two seasons, yet they sort of just got shuffled under the carpet. I guess the answer was "Jacob has a thing for numbers". really? that's the answer? Fuck you. I'd rather have NO answer than something like that, I guess.
As to "wrapping up the story of the characters", I don't know, did it really wrap anything up? To me it seemed like an extended version of just saying..."and they all lived happily ever after". Which, I suppose you can argue it made Lost a magical fairy tale, which it sort of was.
Anyway, whatever my feelings are about the last season, it won't take away the fact that the first two seasons, and maybe even the third, were some of the best TV I've ever watched.
Well... this is my guess, from what we know about Desmond and Smokey:
The Light was an electromagnetic field (hence why they needed Desmond) that permeated the Island and kept the Smoke monster trapped on the Island (which is likely what those pylons and fences generated, in order to keep Smokey from killing all the Dharma and Whidmore teams). It was the result of some kind of ancient electromagnet down inside that cave that was designed to keep Smokey trapped on the Island so it wouldn't go around killing everyone on Earth. The stone inside was basically a fuse or superconductor because once it was moved, the "circuit" for the machine/magic/whatever was broken and the Island began to collapse because the magnetism flowing through the rocks was likely the only thing keeping it together. It would certainly explain the highly magnetic rocks that the Man in Black found in the past when his group was digging the hole for the Wheel.
tl;dr version - The Light was a result of the electromagnetic field holding the Island together and basically served as a way of knowing that no, Humanity wasn't going to die at the hands of a horrible smoke monster.
Questions this Theory doesn't answer: Why did it make Smokey Mortal? I suppose the Electromagnatism could have fueled his powers or something, and Jacob just didn't shut the machine off because doing so would violate the "Can't Kill My Brother" clause of the spell his Mom put on him, but nothing from the show really supports that Smokey is powered by the Island itself.
The Light was an electromagnetic field (hence why they needed Desmond) that permeated the Island and kept the Smoke monster trapped on the Island (which is likely what those pylons and fences generated, in order to keep Smokey from killing all the Dharma and Whidmore teams). It was the result of some kind of ancient electromagnet down inside that cave that was designed to keep Smokey trapped on the Island so it wouldn't go around killing everyone on Earth. The stone inside was basically a fuse or superconductor because once it was moved, the "circuit" for the machine/magic/whatever was broken and the Island began to collapse because the magnetism flowing through the rocks was likely the only thing keeping it together. It would certainly explain the highly magnetic rocks that the Man in Black found in the past when his group was digging the hole for the Wheel.
tl;dr version - The Light was a result of the electromagnetic field holding the Island together and basically served as a way of knowing that no, Humanity wasn't going to die at the hands of a horrible smoke monster.
Questions this Theory doesn't answer: Why did it make Smokey Mortal? I suppose the Electromagnatism could have fueled his powers or something, and Jacob just didn't shut the machine off because doing so would violate the "Can't Kill My Brother" clause of the spell his Mom put on him, but nothing from the show really supports that Smokey is powered by the Island itself.
I found an "explanation" of the finale that was supposedly written by one of the writers... I put it in a new thread so we can concentrate on the finale and maybe avoid the imminent locking this thread is headed to when people interact with Mav's craziness?
http://www.halforums.com/forum/showthread.php?13546-Lost-Finale-Explained&p=389572
http://www.halforums.com/forum/showthread.php?13546-Lost-Finale-Explained&p=389572
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Philosopher B.
So, how 'bout that Lost final?
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Soliloquy
A wizard did it.
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Joe Johnson
A bunch of stuff happened, and then they all went to heaven.
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Joe Johnson
And then, a bunch of them made-out with each other.
Just finished it. and i think i really liked it. it definitely had the emotional punch it needed. especially each time the sideways characters get that flash of recognition. as for all the stuff left unexplained? i... don't mind that much. the 'its about the characters' angle worked a lot better for it than in the BSG finale, though i seem to be in the minority of people who liked that ending too >.>
it was nice to see the bookends, really. too many of those to count though.
also? michael giacchino *really* deserves more credit than he gets. the whole series score has been phenomenal, especially the ending.
it was nice to see the bookends, really. too many of those to count though.
also? michael giacchino *really* deserves more credit than he gets. the whole series score has been phenomenal, especially the ending.
E
Element 117
They all lost the Game.
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