3-year old kills self playing with gun, parents blame Wii
- Thread starter figmentPez
- Start date
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makare
(agree)
I do feel bad for the parents, but at the same time the parent should be charge for reckless murder (or whatever manslaughter that match this situation). The gun was left on a counter, loaded, and probably cocked (the last was assumption on my part) If the gun is no longer in hand (and it seems that the threat is no longer a threat) the parent should have unload the gun.[/QUOTE]
I think the parents have suffered enough. If there is one person in the world who knows with absolute certainty that a loaded gun should never be left lying around it is probably that girl's dad. Horrible lesson learned a horrible way. leave them alone.
It shouldn't have been mention AT ALL. If by mentioning in passing (like above article) people will come to conclusion on their own and thinks the Wii controller promotes killing since people are likely to blame others than themselves.
The SMART gun owner DO NOT LEAVE their guns lying around when you have kids around (heck don't leave lying around period. Always have it on you or lock up.)[/QUOTE]
It was reporting a fact. She mistook the gun for a Wii controller. FACT. There is no bias or spin.[/QUOTE]
I thought you would know what a fact is. I doubt the 3 yo called out... "wow, look at this wii controller, I will now play duck hunt on my belly." It is totally unverifiable what was going through a 3 yo's head.[/QUOTE]
Fact:
Reporter: Mr. Cronberger, why do you think that your daughter picked up the weapon.
Dumbass: Well I reckon she thought it was that new fangled Wii controller.
Reporter writes:
Cronberger said Cheyenne mistook the weapon for a Wii video game controller
Fiction:
Reporter: Mr. Cronberger, why do you think that your daughter picked up the weapon.
Dumbass: Well I reckon she thought it was that new fangled Wii controller.
Reporter writes: Cheyenne mistook the weapon for a Wii video game controller after first shooting the TV (insert further embellishment).
The reporter did their job. They asked questions and reported what they were told with no spin on the facts.[/QUOTE]
This^. Nowhere does it give the impression of "It was the Wii that killed her! Goddamn video games! Those Japanese at Nintendo wanna murder our American gun-weilding children!"[/QUOTE]
This.
Duh.
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crono1224
What if... What if it was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, then you'd be royally fucked with or without a gun.
Seriously, I can start making up awesome scenarios right now... I could sneak up around the corner and baseball bat the burglar's head before he even sees me. I could pull his pants down and flick his nuts while disarming him. I could shove the bat up his ass after throwing a pebble across the room to divert his attention. You're just as fucked with a gun as much so as with a bat. So you confront the burglar with your mighty gun, and he's got a gun. MEXICAN STANDOFF TIME![/QUOTE]
This, though a combat knife might be even better, at least in my house the hallways aren't very large, so I could easily lose swing room.
What if... What if it was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, then you'd be royally fucked with or without a gun.
Seriously, I can start making up awesome scenarios right now... I could sneak up around the corner and baseball bat the burglar's head before he even sees me. I could pull his pants down and flick his nuts while disarming him. I could shove the bat up his ass after throwing a pebble across the room to divert his attention. You're just as fucked with a gun as much so as with a bat. So you confront the burglar with your mighty gun, and he's got a gun. MEXICAN STANDOFF TIME![/QUOTE]
But what if HE HAS A BAT TOO?!?!?
D
Deschain
That's all cool and shit Chad, but you know as well as I do, in the end, a gun would be the most useful in these collective 'situations'.
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crono1224
You know till someone shoots a relative, or their kid sneaking back in from a night out. Not that it has ever happened before.....
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Chazwozel
You know till someone shoots a relative, or their kid sneaking back in from a night out. Not that it has ever happened before.....[/QUOTE]
...He crept slowly and approached the shadowy figure in the pale stillness of the night air. Without a second hesitation, he leaped forward swinging the bat wildly. A deep thud echoed through the hall. Madly he swung, aiming specifically for the intruder's head.
"Da..ddy...."
He paused. "Meh, must be the wind," he said. And he beat away for another twenty minutes before he stood up, washed his hands, and went to bed. "Clean up can wait till morning," he muttered to himself as he sleepily yawned and dredged back upstairs.
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crono1224
You know till someone shoots a relative, or their kid sneaking back in from a night out. Not that it has ever happened before.....[/QUOTE]
...He crept slowly and approached the shadowy figure in the pale stillness of the night air. Without a second hesitation, he leaped forward swinging the bat wildly. A deep thud echoed through the hall. Madly he swung, aiming specifically for the intruder's head.
"Da..ddy...."
He paused. "Meh, must be the wind," he said. And he beat away for another twenty minutes before he stood up, washed his hands, and went to bed. "Clean up can wait till morning," he muttered to himself as he sleepily yawned and dredged back upstairs.[/QUOTE]
Boo my sarcasm detector is terrible for people online. I am assuming you are commenting that its much harder to accidently kill someone with a bat than a gun but i can never be sure.
Plus, it saves you all those childcare money... win-win.
This is tragic, but it's also very much criminal negligence - being careless about dangerous conditions (like a loaded and cocked handgun on the counter). Charging the parent won't bring the kid back, but even as much as they've lost, they've shown why there are laws about that and they must be charged appropriately.
Regarding the facts issue, you guys are aware that reporting the facts can still involve bias, right?
Reporter: Mr. Cronberger, why do you think that your daughter picked up the weapon.
Dumbass: Well I reckon she thought it was that new fangled Wii controller. Or maybe she saw me shooting the gun when I took her to the firing range last week. Or it could be I like to give her toy guns to play with, really realistic-looking ones.
Reporter writes: Cronberger said Cheyenne mistook the weapon for a Wii video game controller.
Do I know for certain something like this happened? No.
Should we keep an open mind regarding this possibility? I think so.
Still, a tragic story, no matter how it's spun. Rest in piece, child.
Reporter: Mr. Cronberger, why do you think that your daughter picked up the weapon.
Dumbass: Well I reckon she thought it was that new fangled Wii controller. Or maybe she saw me shooting the gun when I took her to the firing range last week. Or it could be I like to give her toy guns to play with, really realistic-looking ones.
Reporter writes: Cronberger said Cheyenne mistook the weapon for a Wii video game controller.
Do I know for certain something like this happened? No.
Should we keep an open mind regarding this possibility? I think so.
Still, a tragic story, no matter how it's spun. Rest in piece, child.
dude, it was only a gun, not a chainsaw...
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Chazwozel
Well time to leave this thread. My retard alarm is getting too loud.
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crono1224
But the thread will die without the tastemaker
They all do without his loving tenderness.
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makare
I have known a few people who have suffered through similar situations with loaded guns and none of them were charged with anything. I don't think he should be charged and I don't think he will be.
If it hadn't been a gun and someone had left an open jug of antifreeze on the counter and the kid had drank it thinking it was gatorade should the guy go to jail too? Yes guns are very dangerous but there are a lot of things that are potentially deadly, especially to children.
The father is not a murderer Fade. As far as we know he never intended for her to die. He made a bad judgment call and WILL pay for it for the rest of his life, he doesn't have to do it in prison to be punished.
If it hadn't been a gun and someone had left an open jug of antifreeze on the counter and the kid had drank it thinking it was gatorade should the guy go to jail too? Yes guns are very dangerous but there are a lot of things that are potentially deadly, especially to children.
The father is not a murderer Fade. As far as we know he never intended for her to die. He made a bad judgment call and WILL pay for it for the rest of his life, he doesn't have to do it in prison to be punished.
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Chazwozel
I feel the same way about Roman Polanski. FULL CIRCLE BABY!!!!!!!
fade
Staff member
Ok substitute manslaughter for murder, then.
The argument still stands. I'm sure most people feel guilty when they commit manslaughter. That doesn't exempt them from punishment. I don't doubt in any way that this guy will feel horrible for the rest of his life. But I don't see how his situation is any different than any other criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter.
The argument still stands. I'm sure most people feel guilty when they commit manslaughter. That doesn't exempt them from punishment. I don't doubt in any way that this guy will feel horrible for the rest of his life. But I don't see how his situation is any different than any other criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter.
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makare
I feel the same way about Roman Polanski. FULL CIRCLE BABY!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
You know, I actually thought about that conversation when I wrote that but I didn't think you would come in here and compare living the high life in Europe to living a life having lost a child. My bad.
Except that he committed a crime. If it had been an open jug of antifreeze and the kid drank it, that still would have been criminally negligent homicide and he should still be arrested. He didn't commit first degree murder - but he is responsible for the child's death and there are legal consequences.
Turn this around: what does message does it send if he's not arrested for causing his child's death?
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makare
Except that he committed a crime. If it had been an open jug of antifreeze and the kid drank it, that still would have been criminally negligent homicide and he should still be arrested. He didn't commit first degree murder - but he is responsible for the child's death and there are legal consequences.
Turn this around: what does message does it send if he's not arrested for causing his child's death?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it fits negligent homicide because he didn't have a conscious disregard for the risk and putting a gun on a counter, while stupid, is not a gross deviation from reasonable conduct. Stupid people do that all the time.
It could be simply involuntary manslaughter. But like I said I dont think he should be charged.
This is giving me some serious food for thought here, with a daughter on the way.
I keep my pistol hot at all times, out of habit, but if it's not in my hand, it's secure in my holster, high up and out of reach. Yes, the man screwed up by not re-securing his weapon, and his daughter is the one who paid the price.
The Wii controller aspect of the article is completely ancillary to the underlying aim of the report - lack of respect for the firearm on the part of the parent and child caused an easily-preventable death.
I keep my pistol hot at all times, out of habit, but if it's not in my hand, it's secure in my holster, high up and out of reach. Yes, the man screwed up by not re-securing his weapon, and his daughter is the one who paid the price.
The Wii controller aspect of the article is completely ancillary to the underlying aim of the report - lack of respect for the firearm on the part of the parent and child caused an easily-preventable death.
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Chibibar
as an officer of the law, do you think this guy should be charge? if so what kind? I am not a lawyer (or anywhere near it) but there are laws against murder of different level including involuntary or negligence. So what is your opinion?
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Chazwozel
Except that he committed a crime. If it had been an open jug of antifreeze and the kid drank it, that still would have been criminally negligent homicide and he should still be arrested. He didn't commit first degree murder - but he is responsible for the child's death and there are legal consequences.
Turn this around: what does message does it send if he's not arrested for causing his child's death?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it fits negligent homicide because he didn't have a conscious disregard for the risk and putting a gun on a counter, while stupid, is not a gross deviation from reasonable conduct. Stupid people do that all the time.
It could be simply involuntary manslaughter. But like I said I dont think he should be charged.[/QUOTE]
Sweet, so gross incompetence excuses people from criminal charges? Time to 'accidentally' set some fires!
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makare
I always tell people that they also need to be sure that if they lock up their guns don't let the kid know where the key is. In that situation I mentioned earlier the older brother was 11 and his father had taken him hunting many times and he was trained to use guns so his father wasn't careful about letting him know where the key to the cabinet was.Even though, obviously, he wasn't "allowed" to go into it. One day the 11 year old wanted to show his little brother a new gun I think and he ended up shooting the little one in the head. Now they keep the guns in a completely different location but like I said horrible lesson learned a horrible way.
Oh and before anyone says it, I neither have children nor own guns. BUT a lot of people learned that lesson that day and I am going to remember it for the rest of my life.
figmentPez
Staff member
Stupid people drink and drive all the time, should they not be charged with vehicular homicide because many people do the same stupid thing?
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makare
Stupid people drink and drive all the time, should they not be charged with vehicular homicide because many people do the same stupid thing?[/QUOTE]
They were driving the car, they were IN CONTROL of what kills the people. That is completely different than leaving a gun on a counter. If the guy had been pretending he was a gunslinger and then accidentally shot the kid, lock his ass up. But all he did was leave a gun on a counter and the kid shot herself. Not the same thing.
figmentPez
Staff member
They were drunk, thus they were not in control. They intentionally placed a dangerous contraption in a state where it was out of their control and could kill someone. That is the same thing as placing a loaded gun on a table where a child could reach it.
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Chazwozel
Stupid people drink and drive all the time, should they not be charged with vehicular homicide because many people do the same stupid thing?[/QUOTE]
They were driving the car, they were IN CONTROL of what kills the people. That is completely different than leaving a gun on a counter. If the guy had been pretending he was a gunslinger and then accidentally shot the kid, lock his ass up. But all he did was leave a gun on a counter and the kid shot herself. Not the same thing.[/QUOTE]
So I'm going to 'stupidly' put the car in cruise control and go fall asleep on the backseat. Not in control.
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makare
Stupid people drink and drive all the time, should they not be charged with vehicular homicide because many people do the same stupid thing?[/QUOTE]
They were driving the car, they were IN CONTROL of what kills the people. That is completely different than leaving a gun on a counter. If the guy had been pretending he was a gunslinger and then accidentally shot the kid, lock his ass up. But all he did was leave a gun on a counter and the kid shot herself. Not the same thing.[/QUOTE]
So I'm going to 'stupidly' put the car in cruise control and go fall asleep on the backseat. Not in control.[/QUOTE]
How about I don't talk about molecular biology and you don't man ape your way through the law?
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Chazwozel
Stupid people drink and drive all the time, should they not be charged with vehicular homicide because many people do the same stupid thing?[/QUOTE]
They were driving the car, they were IN CONTROL of what kills the people. That is completely different than leaving a gun on a counter. If the guy had been pretending he was a gunslinger and then accidentally shot the kid, lock his ass up. But all he did was leave a gun on a counter and the kid shot herself. Not the same thing.[/QUOTE]
So I'm going to 'stupidly' put the car in cruise control and go fall asleep on the backseat. Not in control.[/QUOTE]
How about I don't talk about molecular biology and you don't man ape your way through the law?[/QUOTE]
You fought the law, and the law won! I'm going to now stupidly open up one of my 50 gallon nitrogen tanks and suffocate everyone in the lab. IT'S ALL GOOD THOUGH, BECAUSE I WAS BEING INCOMPETENT! Those morons should know not to breath pure nitrogen!
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