Are you serious?

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bhamv3

bhamv3

People are opposing the construction of mosques due to terrorism fears? Because terrorists need mosques to be able to recruit and operate, obviously?

:facepalm:
 
Dei

Dei

My grandmother was opposed to Muslim stamps because they "dishonored the people who died on 9/11"

I /facepalm'ed
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

And once again the catch-22 of Freedom of Religion rears it's ugly head: Yes, you are free to worship any god, goddess, or other worldly force... but if your neighbors don't approve of it, your basically going to be forced to do it in private. It's a problem Jews used to face (though not to this degree in the US, I think), it's a problem Wiccans still face, and it's a problem Muslims are going to face until they can improve their image somehow.

That being said, who thought it was a good idea to build a big, fancy mosque in the middle of New York City? It's going to be a magnet for violence and vandalism.
 
P

Philosopher B.

Every time I hear about something Sarah Palin said/did, I die a little inside.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

The Lovely Boner;418485][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
That being said, who thought it was a good idea to build a big, fancy mosque in the middle of New York City? It's going to be a magnet for violence and vandalism.
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This argument is akin to blaming a rape victim for dressing too provocatively.[/QUOTE]

No, it's more like parking a car in front of a chop shop (that you knew about) and then wondering what happened to it the next day: You have reasonable expectations to safety, but your also supposed to take reasonable measures to ensure it. To do otherwise is reckless.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
In this case I find that the conversation from Men in Black is damn near perfect.

Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
Click to expand...
 
Espy

Espy

AshburnerX;418502][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;418485][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
That being said, who thought it was a good idea to build a big, fancy mosque in the middle of New York City? It's going to be a magnet for violence and vandalism.
Click to expand...
This argument is akin to blaming a rape victim for dressing too provocatively.[/QUOTE]

No, it's more like parking a car in front of a chop shop (that you knew about) and then wondering what happened to it the next day: You have reasonable expectations to safety, but your also supposed to take reasonable measures to ensure it. To do otherwise is reckless.[/QUOTE]

No kidding. It's the height of stupidity. Build a mosque, go nuts, but have some damn tact and common sense.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

As for tact...

A group buys land in rural Texas, outside of Houston, to build a large Mosque/Community Center. Then the Mosque tells the neighbor to get rid of his pigs. That guy's family has lived on that farm for 130+ years was pretty offended. Tensions escalated... Then the farmer sold his cattle and set up a pig racetrack along the fence-line between the Mosque and the farm. -I thought it was wrong of the farmer to escalate the situation, but it was pretty funny.
 
Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
That being said, who thought it was a good idea to build a big, fancy mosque in the middle of New York City? It's going to be a magnet for violence and vandalism.
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If this is the so called "Ground Zero" Mosque, it is not so much a house of worship as it is a cultural/community center. There are to be history exhibits, areas for inter-faith activities, and a slew of other community oriented stuff. Then, on the second floor, there will be a small mosque for religious. And why build in NYC? Because quite a few Muslims live there. That is like asking why build a Mosque in Dearborn.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Norris;418538][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
That being said, who thought it was a good idea to build a big, fancy mosque in the middle of New York City? It's going to be a magnet for violence and vandalism.
Click to expand...
If this is the so called "Ground Zero" Mosque, it is not so much a house of worship as it is a cultural/community center. There are to be history exhibits, areas for inter-faith activities, and a slew of other community oriented stuff. Then, on the second floor, there will be a small mosque for religious. And why build in NYC? Because quite a few Muslims live there. That is like asking why build a Mosque in Dearborn.[/QUOTE]

Now you see... this is a different story. If it looks and functions like a community center WITH a Mosque, then these people protesting are being assholes. I was under the impression it was going to be a full on Mosque, like some of the ones we have here in Ohio. Here's one of the one's in Ohio.



Now I could see some people being upset with that imagery in Ground Zero, but a frigging mutli-faith community center? Come on.
 
Espy

Espy

As much as I could care less about a community center/cultural center, either way, if it has a mosque in it it's going to be a lightning rod if it's built in that area, it just doesn't seem like a wise move. No matter how you dress it up it's going to be like poking a bear if you try and build it on/near Ground Zero.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Because they want to heal wounds... by pissing people off?

I don't care either way, but I can definitely see where New Yorkers would not want to see a mosque/community center rising out of the original debris field of 9/11.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

I can't find any designs or plans for this thing yet.
 
C

Chazwozel

sixpackshaker said:
Because they want to heal wounds... by pissing people off?

I don't care either way, but I can definitely see where New Yorkers would not want to see a mosque/community center rising out of the original debris field of 9/11.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

I can't find any designs or plans for this thing yet.
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As someone who's from NYC, that mosque can go fuck itself. I personally don't want to see a mosque in that area. Had it been Christian extremists, I wouldn't want a church built there.
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
I have a delivery of "Gray Area" here for the mosque thread...


No but seriously. I don't believe it's fair that people--even grieving people--lump all Muslims together as if they're all bad. It's awful, and it breaks my heart. But I can see where people are coming from. They're not necessarily bad people. Grief and fear make people behave in an irrational way sometimes. That doesn't make it right, but it's something all people can identify with. I sincerely hope that, if it is built, they are able to assemble peacefully. Maybe they could work to enlighten people a little more about their faith. I hope all of that... but I'm also not stupid. Something bad is probably going to happen, and it might be prevented by building somewhere else... maybe. It's not as if animosity towards Muslims is confined to that area.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

I don't care how in grief people are. A mosque is not the same thing as a sign saying "haha we blew your shit up". At all. We can't give bigots an inch, because they'll take a mile.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Chazwozel;418557][QUOTE=sixpackshaker said:
Because they want to heal wounds... by pissing people off?

I don't care either way, but I can definitely see where New Yorkers would not want to see a mosque/community center rising out of the original debris field of 9/11.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

I can't find any designs or plans for this thing yet.
Click to expand...
As someone who's from NYC, that mosque can go fuck itself. I personally don't want to see a mosque in that area. Had it been Christian extremists, I wouldn't want a church built there.[/QUOTE]

So, no churches in the Deep South United States (KKK)?

I understand why people are pissed, but I also think that the mosque should go up. Moreover I think that the people of NYC need to understand why it should go up. The people that did that, did it in the name of Islam, but they were not Muslims anymore than the KKK or WBC are Christian groups. It is a massive finger in the face of the extremists to put a mosque there, it's us saying "we know that you (terrorists) were not one of them. They are with us. They are against you. We are stronger than you, because we can absorb the things that are best about Islam. We want them, and they want us. We will rise above the hatred and anger and we will continue to be the strongest nation in the world for that reason. Basically, we are the Borg. We will assimilate you. Resistance is futile."

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------

Also, the biggest threat from post 911 wasn't the terrorists, at least not directly. It was the possibility of the world becoming us against them, where them wasn't the terrorists, it was all of Islam. By building this mosque we are really driving home that point that we do not see them as the same group. By denying it's construction, what are we saying?
 
Fun Size

Fun Size

You guys say what you want, but I didn't worry about them putting in another Christian church, and the next thing we knew we had local crusades and damned inquisition.

You gotta watch these religious types.
 
Krisken

Krisken

I'm having a hard time not being snarky here. I don't understand the lightning rod argument. Blacks who refused to sit in the back of the bus were lightning rods, attracting ignorance. Women who fought for equal rights are lightning rods as well. I suppose these people were wrong in attracting attention?

The only way to fight ignorance is by getting attention. Hopefully those involved with the mosque use the attention to spread a message of peace and acceptance and not accelerate the hate being directed at them.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I agree with Charlie.

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Unless this mosque is being built by radicalized clerics or an offshoot branch known for being batshit insane I have no problems with it. What if it were a Jewish temple or a Christian church? Would you mind? The people building it and worshiping in it aren't the ones who blew up the towers. They are just people like you or I who want freedom of religion in America. How is that bad?
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I was reading through the Cordoba Institute's Web Site. I actually met some of the people involved with the group. They were linked in one of their news articles. They are good people. A rock star and a magazine publisher that I met through my brother's work and family.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I don't want any Christian churches in my neighborhood because the Westboro people piss me off and there are those who blow up buildings and kill doctors.

I don't want a Jewish temple in my neighborhood because their people killed Christ and they own everything.

I don't want a Baptist church in my neighborhood because black people commit crimes and I don't want my to be unsafe.

I don't want a Wiccan temple in my neighborhood because they sacrifice animals and cast black magic spells.

I don't want an Islamic mosque in my neighborhood because Muslims blew up the towers and are terrorists.



Why is one of these cool but the rest are bigoted?
 
Fun Size

Fun Size

Dave said:
I don't want a Wiccan temple in my neighborhood because they sacrifice animals and cast black magic spells.

...

Why is one of these cool but the rest are bigoted?
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Whew. Thought you went off the deep end for a minute there. I mean, they're nuts, but Wiccan chicks are hawt!

(I can only imagine that at some point, I will be notified when attempts at levity in "serious" threads are no longer appreciated. I'll most likely ignore such notification, but still.)
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

All I can say about this is you don't fight an act born of intolerance with further intolerance. I do hope they choose another place to put it just to avoid violence, but I don't think they are wrong trying to put a community center up somewhere just because it's near Ground Zero.

I personally don't want to see a mosque in that area. Had it been Christian extremists, I wouldn't want a church built there.
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The issue is, if they were Christian extremists, few people would focus on the fact they were Christian over the fact they were crazy.
 
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