Or they would be treated like a cult. That might be a good step for the majority of Muslims to take. Treat the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and other radical groups like the apostates they are.
Are you serious?
- Thread starter David
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Dave
Staff member
That is one thing I say the Muslims are doing wrong. When a Christian group bombs a clinic or kills a doctor or protests outside funerals, most Christian groups speak up and say, "That is not right!" Christians will hold counter-protests to these sorts of things. I can't say that I've heard or seen Muslims going out of their way to deride the actions of the fringe.
Or at least it's not broadcast that much. When someone gets bombed the Muslims need to come out in force and say to the world, "This is wrong!" Sadly, I have not seen that happen often or loudly enough.
Or at least it's not broadcast that much. When someone gets bombed the Muslims need to come out in force and say to the world, "This is wrong!" Sadly, I have not seen that happen often or loudly enough.
You know, thats all fair, reading some of the less crazy/extremist responses (ie, not Charlies "everyone is a bigot if you don't agree with me" bullshit) I am gonna have to say I agree with you guys, as long as they know they are going to have to deal with some very serious and unavoidable intensity. I see that this could be a really good, even healhty thing.
Consider my mind changed.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't think it's not going to be very, very sensitive for some people and I guess I don't live in the sort of black and white world that allows me to just slap the label of "bigot" on them. I'm not comfortable with that kind of judgmental attitude.
Consider my mind changed.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't think it's not going to be very, very sensitive for some people and I guess I don't live in the sort of black and white world that allows me to just slap the label of "bigot" on them. I'm not comfortable with that kind of judgmental attitude.
I live my life by that line, being in the part of science that forcasts "the big one"
I just don't see any way you can oppose this mosque without holding some bigoted, false views on Islam.
It is two blocks away. Which is, admittedly, not much. But it is not right at Ground Zero. They're on the island of Manhattan. They took the space where they could get it, and having a cultural center where non-Muslims can come inside and learn (if they want) about "real" Islam near GZ is not the worst idea I've ever heard. Too many folks in this country think that ALL Muslims celebrated 9/11, or hate American culture (irony being that the conservative critiques of our culture tend to be the same from proponents of Abrahamic religions), or what have you.
That is not true. I have seen people who are fervently against building a Muslim house of worship inside of the Ground Zero crater. And I heartily agree that building a Mosque on the site of Ground Zero itself would be about 31 flavors of wrong. Building a fifteen story community/cultural center two blocks away that will include but be limited to a prayer room, offices, meeting rooms, gym, swimming pool and performing arts center is a horse of a different color entirely.
Opinion Piece from CNN that sheds more light on the topic at hand.
Dear god, don't. I made that mistake, and I felt a bit of myself dying inside.
Some folks I know from NY are opposed because the area is zoned for commercial/business use, not private religious use, and they'd rather just keep it that way than start rezoning. I don't really see that as bigoted.
Cajungal
Staff member
That's what I hope the most. They understand the risks of what they're doing... and I wouldn't fault them for getting pissed off, either... but this could be an opportunity for people to learn that their narrow perceptions of a religion don't apply to every member.
I just love seeing more bigoted jokes about the faith I was raised in...
C
Chazwozel
I don't want it there because it's a waste of space. How bout that?
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------
Ding ding ding
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------
Some folks I know from NY are opposed because the area is zoned for commercial/business use, not private religious use, and they'd rather just keep it that way than start rezoning. I don't really see that as bigoted.[/QUOTE]
Ding ding ding
That is literally the first time I've heard someone say it was about zoning and not about "a slap in the face to the bald eagle".
C
Chazwozel
Fuck you, you damn A-rab lover.
Fuck you, you damn A-rab lover.[/QUOTE]
I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.
Necronic
Staff member
I just love seeing more bigoted jokes about the faith I was raised in...[/QUOTE]
That's not a joke. That's a very similar comparison of the logic. It just seems so much more ridiculous/offensive because it is a faith you know, and from a culture you know. So, use the feelings you get from that and extrapolate it to the feelings many Muslims may have about this issue.
Although...I guess there is one difference, that being that what happened in the Catholic Church was 100% against what the teachings were, whereas what happened with Islam was someone used an irregular/extremist interpretation of what the teachings were. On the other hand many leaders of Islam completely dissavowed themselves of what the extremists did, whereas some of the Catholic church's leadership covered it up and were borderline accomplices.
Also, to the zoning issues, that I agree with and totally get. But this is the first time I have heard it, is it a significant motive for the majority of the people protesting?
I'm going to be honest, hearing about the zoning issues well after hearing about the "connections to terrorism" argument make it sound like the zoning thing is an afterthought designed to cover the real intentions of many protesters. I'm sure there are people who are legitimately concerned about zoning issues, and not everyone is going to oppose the mosque based on bigotry, but it's too convenient of an excuse for many of the protesters.
Of course, the zoning issue isn't a story people are interested in, which is all the more reason news outlets have run with the anti-Muslim angle. That's not to say that there aren't thousands of people that hate it because of anti-Muslim or anti-religion sentiments, but the zoning issues are more of a big deal on a legality front. The way I hear it, it's that changing the zoning like this is going to set a bad precedent for elsewhere in the GZ area, as well as the rest of NYC. There's no reason the area can't be used on a commercial/business level.
S
Soliloquy
You know, this is why I have such a negative view of the media in general. Unless we're in New York and talking to the protesters ourselves, we have little to no way of knowing whether most of the protesters are concerned about the zoning issue, or whether most people are protesting because they hate the religion. All we have to rely on are the news reports -- and of course the news reports are going to focus on the more sensational/controversial aspects, no matter how small or large they are. That's just how they make money.
Is there anyone on these boards that lives in NYC, and would be able to verify what it is that most of the protesters are angry about?
Is there anyone on these boards that lives in NYC, and would be able to verify what it is that most of the protesters are angry about?
You are right, those New Yorkers are worse people than the Muslim Nut-Jobs that killed nearly 3 thousand people in that city.[/QUOTE]
The fanatics who killed all those innocent people aren't building a mosque.
C
Chazwozel
And the lesson is don't fuck with New York.
"And get the mayor off my back so I don't have any more of this zoning crap."
Or the lesson is it doesn't matter if you fuck with New York or not, they'll be bigoted towards you anyways because of their fear and ignorance.
Or the lesson is it doesn't matter if you fuck with New York or not, they'll be bigoted towards you anyways because of their fear and ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Protesters: Lumping all Muslims together as terrorists because of shared religion.
Charlie: Lumping all New Yorkers together as bigots because of their region.
C
Chazwozel
Or the lesson is it doesn't matter if you fuck with New York or not, they'll be bigoted towards you anyways because of their fear and ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should practice what you preach and be more tolerant of the bigots.
Derp. See what I did there?
J
Jiarn
No. They're not. My ex is Wiccan and she's a beastly looking woman now. She devolved with time but when she went Wiccan it put her into maximum overdrive.
S
Soliloquy
Question: If you're not tolerant of people who don't share your belief about being tolerant of people who don't share your beliefs, are you actually being tolerant of people who don't share your beliefs?
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