What the hell did you emos do to Superman?

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Biannoshufu


I just did a bit of research on these so called Black Lantern Corps losers, and i realized that my beloved Superman was not the caped crusader I grew up with (( well, at least until boys started followed me around comic shops.))

So, what the hell happened to him? The last thing I vaguely remember was some shmuck killed him and then he was made into a lame robot and 3 other clones... i haven't really read anything since. What's the essential Superman stories since then?

(( Also, if anyone tries to tell how me how cool a Superman zombie is, please be aware I will ask you to go put your dangly bits into a blender full of firecrackers and ball bearings.))

 
M

makare

What's with that curl in Superman's hair? I've always wondered that.
 
Heeey, don't worry, the zombie thing was just a phase but he got over it pretty fast! :p

I can't really recommend the best stories to get up to date.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
WTF is that top image? Red and blue supermen?
In the late 90's Superman's powers changed and he transformed into an energy being. Then he got split into two, one red and one blue, who had different personalities and fought over Lois Lane. The two electromagnetic Supermen later merged and turned back into the old Superman with his original powers.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Ha! and you thought that zombies were the worst DC could throw at you! Superman Blue and Superman Red aren't even Elseworlds! They're main continuity! You don't even want to think about the horrors done in Superman: At Earth's End.
 
C

Crafter

Superhero comics have always had those really odd plot twists in them.. some of them are just weirder than others. I kind of want to know the story behind how some of these things came to be.
 
Yeh. Superman can be awesome when handled by the correct writers (ie. those who give a shit about what Superman represents).

And what, exactly, is wrong with making money? If I had a popular character you'd better believe I'd wring every last red cent out of it.
 

Dave

Staff member
My problem with Supes has always been how can you root for a guy who can't be beaten. And whom everyone loves. At least the Hulk has an angst to him. He's indestructible but he doesn't care - he just wants people to leave him alone.

Supes, though? He can do anything. Super math. Super holding of his breath. Whatever. But we're supposed to root for him? What's the point? Hell, his damned weakness is lameness incarnate. And nobody sees through his alter ego? Puh-lease. I prefer batman or Spider-man.
 
I was never a big Superman fan... unless you called the series that had a young and sexy Teri Hatcher part of the series.

But yeah, what Dave said. I cannot root for a guy like that. I can root for a guy like Batman or Wolverine.. heck, even Kickass was sorta magical because he was so damn vulnerable.
 
My problem with Supes has always been how can you root for a guy who can't be beaten. And whom everyone loves. At least the Hulk has an angst to him. He's indestructible but he doesn't care - he just wants people to leave him alone.

Supes, though? He can do anything. Super math. Super holding of his breath. Whatever. But we're supposed to root for him? What's the point? Hell, his damned weakness is lameness incarnate. And nobody sees through his alter ego? Puh-lease. I prefer batman or Spider-man.

It's not a question of if superman will die (even though he did once) it's a question of if Lois Lane/ Metropolis will die. Now sure, some people lose sight of that by pitting him against some muscle'd out dude who's plan is to punch superman in the face until he dies (which actually worked once).
 
It's about trying to fit in, really. About someone who wants to use his unusual abilities to help others, but at the same time wants to be accepted as ordinary, live an ordinary life, etc.

--Patrick
 
W

wana10

Kingdom Come.

All Star Superman.

That's it, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
/wana10 has to tell otherwise

read those two, and ALSO...(assuming you're ok with not main continuity)

supes for all seasons
superman: secret identity
 
J

Jiarn

It Dave is trolling, bravo. If not, you really should read the replies to your post, they're dead on what Superman is really about.

So I can't believe this hasn't been done yet, but to quote the all time famous thread "Who would win: Superman vs Hulk". Let the madness commense.
 
*ahem* Why didn't anyone inform me about this thread previously?

Right, so, Superman. Oh boy. I'm going to try not making this a tl;dr post.

First off, recommended stories:
1) Superman for all Seasons - by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale (back when Loeb was a good writer) Gorgeous art by Tim Sale and a really great story about Superman regarding how, for all his power, he can't save everyone. When you peel back that blue, red and yellow layer, you find an honest Kansas farmboy trying to come to grips with the public persona that he's been given.

2) Secret Identity - by Kurt Busiek and Stuart Immonen. Technically not in-continuity Superman, but it hits on every point about Superman. You've got this kid, Clark Kent, living in Kansas. The world is meant to be "our" world (the "real world"). But he discovers he actually HAS Superman's powers. The question becomes what he does with them. Does he go public, where he'll be scrutinized and hunted by the government? How do you hold onto that secret? Do you tell anyone? If you don't tell anyone, how does that isolation affect you? This is, without a shadow of a doubt, not only my favourite Superman story of all time, but it's quite possibly one of my favourite comics of all time.

3) Death/Funeral/Return of Superman - by various writers and artists. This is where I got hooked on comics again. The dialogue hasn't aged well in parts, but the overall trilogy is fantastic. Everything wraps up in the end, making it a great self-contained story using a lot of Superman mythos. I recommend getting the three separate trade paperbacks, rather than the hardcover of all three that was released a few years ago, since it's missing quite a bit.

4) All Star Superman - by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely. Morrison basically boiled Superman down to the basics, used his own continuity which was kind of a merging of almost every aspect of the mythos and cut loose. Each issue is self-contained but all twelve tell an overall story. It uses a lot of the silly Silver Age stuff like different coloured Kryptonite, Krypto the superdog, etc. But the fact that it's all so over the top just adds to it because Superman is a lot like childhood fantasy: unbridled, pure, imagination and most importantly...FUN!!

5) Kingdom Come - by Mark Waid and Alex Ross. This covers the morals of Superman and the classic heroes in general. This was releasesed around the time when everyone wanted grim, gritty heroes that killed. This story proves why that's not always a good thing. Great stuff and gorgeous art by Alex Ross.

6) It's a Bird - by Steven S. Seagal and Teddy Kristiansen. This is a semi-biographical story about Seagal's time writing Superman and how he was very hard pressed to write stories about him. There's some amazing deconstruction of Superman. In trying to figure out how Superman works, Seagal deconstructs everything from Supes' power, the S symbol, right and wrong, secret identity, etc. Amazing stuff and possibly my second favourite Superman story.

As for Superman himself? Dave, the big thing with Superman isn't his power. Yes, he's this guy with a laundry list of superpowers. But it's more about the fact that he has all this power and yet is also this great power for good. He flies in the face of absolute power corrupting absolutely. Plus, he doesn't see himself as Superman. He first thinks of himself as Clark Kent, the farmboy who always felt different and an outsider. For a guy with all his power, he has huge confidence issues. But he always does the right thing, or at least tries. That's the big thing about his character. It's not about who he fights or what his powers are, but what he does with them. His methods are different from Batman because he relies on earning trust, rather than striking fear. He doesn't hide behind a mask because he wants people to see him for who he is.

When he's Superman, he gets to use his powers to help those in need and use his power for good as best he can. When he's Clark Kent, he gets to be himself, most especially in Kansas. I actually think there's three different personalties he carries: Superman, Metropolis Clark and Smallville Clark. Metropolis Clark is a quite, unassuming yet hardworking honest guy. The kinda guy who'll always help you with whatever you need but tends not to socialize a lot. Smallville Clark is where he gets to unwind from everything and truly be himself. Really good example of this is the Justice League episode, Comfort and Joy, where he's a total big kid at Christmas and his folks have wrapped all his presents in lead so he can't peak.

Gah, this turned into a tl;dr after all. Guess that shows how much I love the big guy and what he stands for.
Added at: 10:07
What's with that curl in Superman's hair? I've always wondered that.
Some don't do it as well as others, but it's meant to be curled in the shape of an "S". :D
 
B

Biannoshufu

dude, i put SUPERMAN in the title! What do you WANT from me?

srsly, thanks
 
De nada.

Also, though I haven't read it, I'm not a fan of that Earth One book. I've seen some scans and read a bit on it and really just don't like it. Got a friend who bought it, so I'll borrow it from them and see for sure. But yeah, I just like the ones I listed above the most. It's sad. Most of the in-continuity stuff isn't very good.
 
lex luthor: man of steel was pretty good. nice to see a take on the opposite number, as it were.

but allstar superman is goddamn ESSENTIAL.
 
My problem with Supes has always been how can you root for a guy who can't be beaten. And whom everyone loves. At least the Hulk has an angst to him. He's indestructible but he doesn't care - he just wants people to leave him alone.

Supes, though? He can do anything. Super math. Super holding of his breath. Whatever. But we're supposed to root for him? What's the point? Hell, his damned weakness is lameness incarnate. And nobody sees through his alter ego? Puh-lease. I prefer batman or Spider-man.
I forget who it was, but someone has posited that the Justice League only exists so that Superman will always have someone around to get rid of the Kryptonite for him. :D
 

Dave

Staff member
I was not trolling and was totally serious. And Nick, I hate to say it, but he does NOT think of himself as Clark Kent. I've been reading Supes a long time (granted it's really, really gone down in the last couple decades due to his increasing WTF storylines) and he's ALWAYS been Supes first and Clark second. As previously stated on this board, Supes is different because his alter ego is his mask while most other super heroes their masks are more literal.

Bruce Wayne puts on a cape and becomes Batman but he's always Bruce Wayne.

Peter Parker puts on his Spidey suit and becomes Spider-Man, but he's still Peter Parker.

For Superman, he takes OFF the costume to wear a disguise.
 
W

wana10

try giving "up up and away" a read dave. it looks at the whole supes/clark thing. really the "which is a mask?" comes down to a nature v nurture type debate and good writers are able to play off that in interesting ways.
 

Dave

Staff member
New writers are always trying to put a different spin on things. Classic Supes is the real deal. The newer stuff with Luthor in a giant robot suit & shit like that? Reaching.
 
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