M
makare
Does anyone know how much water the average 6 year old boy would have to drink in order to suffer water intoxication?
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Just to get it out of the way: See a doctor if your really concerned about this sort of thing. They are better equipped to handle your questions than we are. That being said...
I don't think your kid's stomach could hold enough water to die of intoxication. He'd literally need to prevent himself from urinating for hours, while drinking water, in order for it to be possible.
Let me put it this way: Doctors advise drinking between 1 to 2 liters of water a day. You'd need to drink many times that for it be a problem. If your really concerned, go see a doctor, but I'd just give him something rich in electrolytes if your really worried about it.
I don't think your kid's stomach could hold enough water to die of intoxication. He'd literally need to prevent himself from urinating for hours, while drinking water, in order for it to be possible.
Let me put it this way: Doctors advise drinking between 1 to 2 liters of water a day. You'd need to drink many times that for it be a problem. If your really concerned, go see a doctor, but I'd just give him something rich in electrolytes if your really worried about it.
M
makare
2-3 hours is the time frame
Then going by drifters math it would be about 6 liters. Has he drank anywhere near that much? Has he being using the bathroom during that time?
M
makare
Sadly I am asking because I read a case where a boy was forced to drink water over a 2-3 hour period and died. I was wondering how much water he would have had to drink.
It depends on a lot of factors, including body size, electrolyte levels, whether the kidneys are doing their job well, whether he's able to empty his bladder, etc.
In extreme cases whe the electrolyte levels are way out of balance it can take very little water. When I was doing ultra marathon bicycle racing I had to watch out for hyponeutremia (iirc, I'm not going to look it up) which is caused by too much water, with not enough electrolytes to allow it to pass out of your system. Remember that water moves into and out of the blood stream through osmosis, and for that to work the has to be an electrolytic balance that draws the water into the correct areas. Sweating causes one to lose sodium and potassium chloride, and if it's not replaced you get too much water, and can die from that. Well, that's how I thought of it anyway, I could be getting major details wrong.
Small children who are healthy have a pretty big buffer, but if they are already malnourished, or if they are unbalanced electrolytically, then a sudden intake of water can lead to death, even at less than the typical rate needed to cause death in the average human. But even healthy children differ in significant ways in terms of how fast their body absorbs and sheds water.
So there's no one single answer.
If you feel thirsty, you're probably already dehydrated. If you're thirsty and have had a lot to drink, eat a banana or drink a sports drink. Don't force yourself to drink more than you feel comfortable drinking.
Active kids can and will drink a lot of water, even on a cold day. Suggest a drink if you want, but don't force them to drink more than they feel comfortable with.
In extreme cases whe the electrolyte levels are way out of balance it can take very little water. When I was doing ultra marathon bicycle racing I had to watch out for hyponeutremia (iirc, I'm not going to look it up) which is caused by too much water, with not enough electrolytes to allow it to pass out of your system. Remember that water moves into and out of the blood stream through osmosis, and for that to work the has to be an electrolytic balance that draws the water into the correct areas. Sweating causes one to lose sodium and potassium chloride, and if it's not replaced you get too much water, and can die from that. Well, that's how I thought of it anyway, I could be getting major details wrong.
Small children who are healthy have a pretty big buffer, but if they are already malnourished, or if they are unbalanced electrolytically, then a sudden intake of water can lead to death, even at less than the typical rate needed to cause death in the average human. But even healthy children differ in significant ways in terms of how fast their body absorbs and sheds water.
So there's no one single answer.
If you feel thirsty, you're probably already dehydrated. If you're thirsty and have had a lot to drink, eat a banana or drink a sports drink. Don't force yourself to drink more than you feel comfortable drinking.
Active kids can and will drink a lot of water, even on a cold day. Suggest a drink if you want, but don't force them to drink more than they feel comfortable with.
M
makare
From what I understand he was forced to drink the water nonstop for 2-3 hours even after he complained of discomfort. It was a lot of water I am sure but there is no way to really know at what point he cross the line into water intoxication.
Dave
Staff member
Can you provide more info?
M
makare
No the case didn't really say much. The details of the incident weren't as important as the fact that it happened. It's so sad. The boy was being punished for taking food from the kitchen. After drinking the water he lost his eyesight and fell unconscious (from my reading on the web I would guess from the brain swelling). He never woke up and they took him off the respirator the next day. I guess I am just torturing myself trying to imagine how that man could watch the boy suffering like that and just keep making him drink.
I HATE that class. It kills my soul.
I HATE that class. It kills my soul.
M
makare
People who do social work, are children's attorneys, child protective services or foster care those people are my heroes. I have Children and the Law three times a week for only an hour each and I still need hours to recover afterwards. We are now heading into the sexual abuse chapter and I wish I could just skip class. It is agonizing. I just think back to every child I've ever hugged and wonder why the world is so fucked up.
sigh.
sigh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication has some cases, including one four year old forced to drink too much.
Healthy kidneys hcan take care of one litre per hour, so even if you maintain a reasonable electrolyte balance, you can still cause death by consuming more than one liter per hour for an extended period of time. The cause of death is that when the blood becomes very dilute, the brain cells absorb more water as they have higher concentration of salts than the blood, and thus osmosis pulls more liquid in. This swelling leads to death if the pressure isn't relieved quickly, and in general it can't be relieved quickly. By the time you see the symptoms it's Likely too late.
The reverse happens when one drinks too much saltwater. The salt saturated blood pulls water from the cells, causing death by dehydration.
The body has a great capability to deal with imbalances, though, it really takes an extreme to hit the wall on either side and cause death. Drinking two liters of water in one hour isn't going to do it for most adults, but it is easier to cause the condition in children due to slower kidneys and lower body mass.
Healthy kidneys hcan take care of one litre per hour, so even if you maintain a reasonable electrolyte balance, you can still cause death by consuming more than one liter per hour for an extended period of time. The cause of death is that when the blood becomes very dilute, the brain cells absorb more water as they have higher concentration of salts than the blood, and thus osmosis pulls more liquid in. This swelling leads to death if the pressure isn't relieved quickly, and in general it can't be relieved quickly. By the time you see the symptoms it's Likely too late.
The reverse happens when one drinks too much saltwater. The salt saturated blood pulls water from the cells, causing death by dehydration.
The body has a great capability to deal with imbalances, though, it really takes an extreme to hit the wall on either side and cause death. Drinking two liters of water in one hour isn't going to do it for most adults, but it is easier to cause the condition in children due to slower kidneys and lower body mass.
I've heard college hazings go bad for the same reason. It's a pretty silly way to ruin one's health, because people believe something harmless will be harmless no matter the quantity. In fact, pretty much everything is toxic at high enough level. Conversely, pretty much everything harmful is good for you if taken in small enough quantity.
--Patrick
--Patrick
What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
- Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
- Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
- Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
- DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
- Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
- Contributes to soil erosion.
- Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
- Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
- Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
- Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
- Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
- Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
- Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.
Dave
Staff member
The thing about this is, the person doing the punishing probably didn't think it would lead to death. Water intoxication is a strangely little-known thing. The person was probably saying, "I'm teaching little Johnny a lesson but I'm not being abusive, hitting, etc." My guess is the person responsible is not exactly okay with the result and punishes themselves every day.
Added at: 15:28
edit: As to watching the kid suffering....Anyone who has ever watched, had or listened to children know that ANY punishment is treated by them as earth-shattering and deadly. The guy probably thought the kid was faking it or overreacting.
Added at: 15:28
edit: As to watching the kid suffering....Anyone who has ever watched, had or listened to children know that ANY punishment is treated by them as earth-shattering and deadly. The guy probably thought the kid was faking it or overreacting.
Dave
Staff member
That's the way things work here.
M
makare
Yeah well he got convicted of first degree murder by torture so he is probably thinking pretty long and hard about it.
This isn't all he did. There were other kids in the house too and his discipline methods were bizarre and cruel.
You are saying he was ignorant of the result. And ignorance is not an excuse. So that is exactly what you are saying.
This isn't all he did. There were other kids in the house too and his discipline methods were bizarre and cruel.
You are saying he was ignorant of the result. And ignorance is not an excuse. So that is exactly what you are saying.
Dave
Staff member
Ignorance is no excuse under the law. I wasn't saying he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions. But is ignorance an excuse for doing dumbfuck things? Hell to the yes! Otherwise, nobody would ever do dumbfuck things.
Added at: 16:27
In addition, we didn't know about the other kids so without knowledge of his other indiscretions this very well could have been a one-shot OHMYFUCKINGGOD kind of thing.
Knowing the facts is a good thing and you withheld them. ON PURPOSE!
Added at: 16:27
In addition, we didn't know about the other kids so without knowledge of his other indiscretions this very well could have been a one-shot OHMYFUCKINGGOD kind of thing.
Knowing the facts is a good thing and you withheld them. ON PURPOSE!
M
makare
He was convicted solely because of the water thing so that was enough for the jury.
Ignorance is not an excuse, but you need to prove intent to kill to get a 1st degree murder charge.
Dave
Staff member
As I said, ignorance is no excuse under the law. But I'd be willing to bet he wasn't trying to hurt the kid when he did what he did.
So if he can find a good lawyer who would give a crap about a child killer, that sentence could be reduced.
M
makare
What exactly was he trying to do Dave?
What possible positive outcome of forcing a child to drink liters of water could there be?
What possible positive outcome of forcing a child to drink liters of water could there be?
Dave
Staff member
Kid pees a lot and learns a lesson.
Without knowing as much as you did from the case it is difficult to assess intentions. Like the radio staion thing where the DJs had the people all drink a shitton of water to win a Wii. The lady died from water intoxication. They didn't do it to be mean.
This guy? Apparently he did do it to be mean. But that doesn't mean he did it to kill.
Except for weed. Your lungs will explode before you die from "marijuana poisoning."
Actually, I lied the LD50 for THC is something like 45mg/kg body weight. It's still ridiculously high.
I've known people who have tried...
M
makare
He was causing him grievous pain and suffering also known as torture and the boy died. So he tortured a boy to death. The fact that he didn't mean to kill him is pretty damn irrelevant under those circumstances.
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