Harry Potter 7 part 2 with spoilers

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strawman

strawman

We didn't plan on seeing it tonight, but at ten pm our friend called and said they were coming over and watching our kids and that we should go.

Of course, the theater was sold out. They were playing it on all 18 screens, and by the time we got there we had our choice of the last eight parking spots.

We hung out next to the ticket counter on the off chance that someone would sell us their tickets, rather than get a refund, but then we realized we had no cash, and who would accept a check?

So we hung around stupidly until just before midnight, chatted up the manager, mentioned we usually don't get to go out due to our six kids, that it was last minute babysitting from a friend, etc, etc. He happened to be wearing one of those custom photo ties with his kids on it. So he flips through a bunch of paper, and says, "follow me", leads us past the ticket taker, and says, "you're seated in theater five, have a good time!" and walks off.

So we got to go see it in 3D for free, last minute midnight showing.

/insert image macro of Charlie sheen winning here

Now for the spoiler review:

I enjoyed it though it was too short.

After discussing it with my wife, we determined that the biggest issue was that the deaths of important characters did not get the treatment that would be needed to impact the audience. You walk into the room with Harry, and oh look, lots of important characters are dead. Let's cry a little and move on.

This was supposed to be a tearjerker bittersweet ending to the series, but they just missed every single high note and low note.

I want to see it again, but I'm afraid that it's simply not the best movie in the series, and it really should have been.

They did justice to snape's love for Lilly. They really switched things around from the book, so if you a a fan of having the movies closely follow the book you should be prepared for some disappointment.

Molly has the same line as she had in the book, but again that scene lacked the gravitas that the book had.

I don't know. It's almost like they got the first part done, then decided they were tired of the series and just tried to get the last part in the can so they could go home.

I'm hoping I'll be more charitable when I see it next, whether at home or in the theater. It seems to be getting good reviews from others, so perhaps it's just me.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Damn you, Stieny! I was just coming in to post my spoiler review! I guess I will anyway.

Just got back from seeing this movie and I feel like some things were done very well and some were underplayed, some were added to great benefit and some were removed which was a detraction. All in all a great movie, but at times it felt like something was just...missing.

It starts pretty much immediately where the last one left off. You'd think that this would be a no-brainer, but we've seen it before with series like this where they have a gap in the films. Not this one. From the start you get the idea that this is not your ordinary Harry Potter movie. The little bells which everyone recognizes as the Harry Potter theme is noticeably absent - and the film is better for it. This one is darker and more suspenseful than the others, which I guess makes sense.

The majority of the movie is action-based, from the Gringott's escape to the finale at Hogwart's, and some things are done in spectacular style. The dragon is a short sequence but is very well done. The statues leaping from the battlements to defend the school is a very well done effect and had the crowd either going, "Oooh!" or "Fuck yeah!"

As a whole, this is a fitting and triumphant end to a series which a lot of people have grown up with. My daughter and I have been to every opening night and this added a bittersweet element for her and I. Not only are we losing a beloved series, but it was our thing - it was our bonding time. Sure, we can find something new, but she's 17 now and things like this don't come along every day.

The movie did a lot right. Snape's sacrifice and nobility is really allowed to shine through and is one of the best parts. The revelation of his true intentions was done so very deftly that it caused you to reflect with Harry about the interactions they'd had throughout the entire series - an interaction that changes dramatically with this new information. They left in Mrs. Weasely calling Bellatrix a bitch - which surprised me - and the death of Johnny Depp's favorite leading lady was a good one, if not a little short.

But for all that was done correctly, there were a few things that I felt did not do justice. I freely admit that part of this is due to what I call the "book bias". Had I not read the books I may not have the same outlook, but there you have it. First, there were some major character deaths which while touched on briefly, were not explored as well as they could have been. Of course, it seemed that way in the book to me as well, but the movie could have portrayed it better. Fred's death especially could have had more weight to it, but was shown in an almost soundless slow-motion montage of familial grief.

The second thing that bothered me *really* bothered me, and that was the actions of Neville Longbottom. In the book he defies Voldemort to his face and kills Nagini by breaking free of a spell designed to torture him!! In the movie he makes a cheesy speech and is then knocked ass over heels to get woozily to his feet later and only kill the snake as Harry and Voldemort are finishing their showdown. And it is as he is killing Nagini that Voldemort loses the battle and dies - seemingly because of Neville's actions. As you know, in the book Neville kills Nagini long before Harry and Voldemort go toe-to-toe and while killing the snake was a big fucking deal, it was still Harry alone who beat Voldemort.

And as to that, I really missed the taunting between Tom Riddle and Harry in the final battle. I felt it had real oomph in the book but was completely absent from the film. Harry mocking Tom would have been especially sweet, but alas.

In the end, this is a more than fitting finale to a series that has grown not only with the actors and the audience, but in the quality of the acting and seriousness of the subject. At first it seemed like the Boy who Lived was just on a yearly jaunt. This time around we see real bad guys doing evil shit and the good guys having to risk themselves to defeat it. 8 out of 1o stars for this one and if you are even a smallish fan I urge you to go see it on the big screen.
 
strawman

strawman

I had forgotten that bit about Neville breaking the curse.

One of the most important bits about the last book, to me, was that neville was Harry potters equal in almost every way. The only difference being that voldemort chose Harry to fulfill the prophecy.

Neville obviously played an important role in the movie, but he did not come off as the hero that he was in the book.
 
K

kaykordeath

Thank you Stien, I thought it was just me. Wifey and I did the double feature Part 1 at 9:00 part 2 at midnight and the first thing I said at the end of the second one was how short it was. Possibly emphasized by seeing the longer drawn out part one first. But it did seem like so much "more" could have been added to support the incredibly fun roller coaster of action. I left the movie not even remembering from the book who had died, but knowing that it felt like other than Lupin and Tonks, we barely saw anything really tragic play out. And while Neville was definitely a badass in the movie, he was a very different badass than I remember from the book. He was more action hero here and I felt he was more a vengeance-seeking Inigo Montoya with a magic wand.
 
D

Dubyamn

One big problem that I've had with the movie for awhile is the way they decided to focus on a wizard duel between Harry and Voldemort. Not like in the book where Voldemort was beaten long before facing down Harry due to his arrogance and his complete ignorance of the laws of magic but an actual full on throw down between Harry and the big V.

I know it shouldn't bother me as much as it does but come on Harry couldn't even scratch Snape in a duel and he hadn't been undergoing training or learning new spells since that time he had been bumming around in the woods. The idea that Harry a wizard with mediocre grades could go toe to toe with one of the greatest wizards of all time just gets under my skin.
 
strawman

strawman

Dubyamn said:
The idea that Harry a wizard with mediocre grades could go toe to toe with one of the greatest wizards of all time
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You know how it's difficult to destroy a horcrux? Voldemort didn't realize he had created a horcrux in Harry. He also didn't realize that the Elder wand switched its allegience to Harry. The wand wasn't going to work as well against its own master, and besides, even Voldemort didn't have the magic to destroy a horcrux (prior to gaining the elder wand) - very few wizards would have even known where to start. Every horcrux in the series was destroyed by either basilisk venom or by the elder wand, which Dumbledore had (gryfindor's sword had incorporated the basilisk venom earlier in the series). Voldemort's primary failure was due to lack of information about his own situation.

This is the whole reason Harry tells everyone else that he has to battle Voldemort - he knows that he's protected by the horcrux magic.

While Dumbledore told harry that it was his mother's love that continues to protect him, I think that's a carefully crafted lie Dumbledore tells so he doesn't have to tell Harry that he's a horcrux. His mother's love protected him the night of the attack, but the horcrux was created in Harry, and it's that horcrux that continues to protect him - not some special magic (or love) that persisted beyond his mother's death.

While the Elder wand could be used to destroy horcruxes, and could be used against its owner, I think the critical combination of both being a horcrux and its the Elder wand's owner is what protected Harry.

Ordinary wands, such as those Voldermort weilded earlier, were no mach for the horcrux inside Harry. Remember that a horcrux tries to avoid its own death - when Harry automatically protected himself during the ride of seven potters it wa actually the horcrux protecting itself, similar to the way the book, locket, and other horcruxes fought back when they were destroyed.

A horcrux is an interesting magic, in that it's vastly harder to destroy than it is to create. I'm very curious to know if Lilly knew what she was doing and actually intended for this particular outcome to occur, or if it was just her doing as much as she could, and everything else just happening because of the particular sequance of events.

Voldemort was very obviously injured from the horcrux when he attacked Harry in the forest. At that point he must have been weakened enough that with the limited power of the elderwand (against its owner) Harry could actually battle, and essentially disarm Voldemort by calling his wand to himself.
But there are still some troubling aspects to it, and I suspect that this is why they flipped things around in the movie so when the last horcrux left, Voldemort died. They needed that last battle with Harry not as a horcrux, so they had to save one to the end. I think it's a cheap play to cover up some problems, but I don't think that moviegoers who don't read the books will be bothered by it at all - and in fact I think it's because they had to dumb it down to "when the horcruxes are gone, voldemort disappears" because audiences just didn't understand.

Oh, the other big thing they really should have had in the film was Harry fixing his own wand with the elder wand before throwing the elder wand away. It would have taken all of 5 seconds, and would have reinforced the thread that's already woven throughout, and critical to, the story - that wands and wizards are inextricably tied to each other.

And yes, I think about this a little too much.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

stienman said:
Every horcrux in the series was destroyed by either basilisk venom or by the elder wand, which Dumbledore had (gryfindor's sword had incorporated the basilisk venom earlier in the series).
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You forgot that one of them was destroyed by Fiendfyre.

As for the whole thing about Harry being protected by the Horcrux, it never really seemed like that to me.

They made it out that the reasons Voldamort and Harry kept reaching stalemates was because the wand that chose Voldamort and the one that chose Harry were linked, like twins. Neither wand could really overpower the other one, which is why Voldamort attempted to use another wand from one of the Death Eaters. The issue is that a wand that chooses its master is naturally more powerful then one that didn't. Voldamort thought his own power would be greater then that of the link Harry had with his wand, and that it was his own wand that was the handicap. He ended up being wrong.

This, I thought, was one of the reasons he became so obsessed with the Elder Wand, as he could force it to see him as his owner and have enough power to then destroy Harry. Maybe I saw it incorrect.

I admit though, Quirrel melting in the first movie does seem like something a Horcrux would do. =P
 
strawman

strawman

Good points. The matching wand theory, however, was just presented as a theory by most though - voldemort was searching for reasons, and this was the best reason he could find. Harry was searching for reasons, and Dumbledore presented this as a theory - perhaps he believed it, or perhaps he realized the truth and merely led Harry to this conclusion to avoid the horcrux talk at that point. It could still have been the fact that voldemort's own power, as the horcrux inside harry, was assisting harry in that particular fight. The fact that Harry's friends and family come to aid him in the fight is odd in that regard.

Voldemort and others assumed it was the wand's link, but it was probably really the horcruxe's link.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

stienman said:
Voldemort and others assumed it was the wand's link, but it was probably really the horcruxe's link.
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Here is where I think your theory falls rather flat however. If the Horcrux itself was defending Harry, it would do such versus everyone, not just Voldamort.

The fight with the Basilisk, a creature that Voldemort had some obvious power over through the Diary of Tom Riddle. If Harry had a horcrux inside him openly assisting him, it would have been able to do more since it would have some natural sway over the creature. No such influence was presented, instead Harry only surviving thanks to the intervention of the phoenix. This leads to another odd plot point I always felt, as Harry was at one point poisoned by the Basilisk, but was healed by the phoenix, you would think such and act would have heavily agitated the horcrux considering the venom is one of the few things that can kill it.

There are other times Harry has been simply downright defeated by his enemies, like when he was being kicked around by Voldemort in the Ministry of Magic during the Order of the Phoenix, an act that would have killed him if not for the intervention of Dumbledore. During the events of Deathly Hollows, he is both nearly captured by Nagini until the intervention of Hermonie, and later the Snatchers who took him to Malfoy Manor. There is no sign of the horcrux influencing any type of power to prevent these dangerous situations, which could have lead to his death. The only time he was ever saved by some "random intervention" was when Quirrel melted from touching him.

The only time Harry was ever shown to hold his own versus Voldemort, was when he was also holding his wand and fighting back with it.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

As i recall from the book him being a horcrux is what made all the weird interactions he had with Voldy over the years, like the linking of the wands and stuff... which is why in the final book using Lucius' wand didn't change squat. (and their wands where related because wands are related to the wizards soul or whatnot, you know, the wand chooses the wizard).
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Neville's scene in the book was my all time favourite of the whole series. When he breaks free of the curse and kills the snake, I kept picturing it like this in my head:

He stumbles ahead of the rest of his fellow warriors, dazed, confuzed. They look at him as if he's giving up. Then he looks back, smiles and quietly whispers "For Dobby" before charging in, Griffindor sword held high. :D
 
KCWM

KCWM

ScytheRexx said:
The only time Harry was ever shown to hold his own versus Voldemort, was when he was also holding his wand and fighting back with it.
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Don't forget the beginning of book 7 where Voldemort catches Harry in the sky and his wand spins and spews golden fire on it's own, defeating Voldemort when Harry had no real control over the situation. I've never considered the Horcrux Defense idea before, but it kind of makes sense. Yeah, it didn't happen in the Chamber of Secrets, but perhaps the Basilisk venom was too powerful and rendered it inept. That and it was contending with the soul of another being rather than possessing an inanimate object. There's a lot that could be argued.

I liked the movie. It's my favorite of the bunch. We are seeing it again in 8.5 hours. I should be in bed.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Oh man, i just saw it, and they took out the coolest scene with the Elder Wand... it would hjave taken an extra minute at most, why the hell did they skip Harry fixing his wand at the end?!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............
 
D

Dubyamn

stienman said:
Horcrux stuff
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Let me clarify my statement. In the books I thought that the battles between V and Harry were believable and well done. First time an esoteric rule of magic as well as Harry's determination led to a Harry victory. Second time they met was flying in the air and Harry's wand had the special anti Voldemort charm from the last battle on it. Next time they fought Harry was the true owner of the Eldar wand and the Eldar wand backfired on the imposter wielding it killing Voldemort. In all of these cases it's obscure laws of magic evening the playing field between Voldemort and Harry and letting Harry's other skills carry the day.

My understanding with the movie is that instead of the one shot battle from the book Harry and V are having a long running duel throughout Hogwarts. Please correct me if I am wrong. I just don't believe that Harry would have the magical strength and the dueling skills to really go toe to toe with Voldemort even if V's spells are weakened. This in my mind is ridiculous and completely missing the real climax of the story.

The Horcrux theory is fine but I don't know. I guess I may just watch it to see how they sell it but I got really annoyed watching an interview where the director talked about that fight and how he felt it needed to be extended and played with more. It really didn't in my mind.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Dubyamn said:
My understanding with the movie is that instead of the one shot battle from the book Harry and V are having a long running duel throughout Hogwarts. Please correct me if I am wrong. I just don't believe that Harry would have the magical strength and the dueling skills to really go toe to toe with Voldemort even if V's spells are weakened. This in my mind is ridiculous and completely missing the real climax of the story.
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You don't have to worry. They never show Harry and V going "toe to toe" like you are thinking.

The whole event basically plays out with Harry on the defensive. He is doing his best to deflect Vs attacks, even getting desperate and caving in the ceiling to get some space. At one point V even tosses him around and nearly chokes him out with his cloak before Harry slips away. It never was really presented as a back and forth duel, just Harry running for his life while hoping he could get a shot at Nagini.

The only "change" I could see that put the whole thing into Harry's favor was a change to how V was killed. While in the book the Elder Wand took the killing curse and shot it back at V because it couldn't kill it's master, the film instead made it look like the fact the Elder Wand was resisting V allowed Harry to push the curse back into him during one of their tug-of-war wand encounters.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Difference is, Dark Knight didn't buy out nearly entire theatres like Harry Potter.

There was some theatres showing HP in 18 screens in one day.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
But they were HUGE theaters!!! :D
Added at: 18:57
Seriously, though, opening weekend numbers don't mean shit to me. It'll be whether or not the movie has staying power to measure its true success. All opening week measures is success of marketing and hype.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Actually, thinking about... you'd think they'd have been more than 10.1 million ahead if they were playing it on more screens everywhere. That being said, it was only playing at a handful more locations so some locations must have been playing it on more screens (or more often) than The Dark Knight. I'm sure the midnight release parties also helped pump it up too.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Sorry my personal experiences are not enough for you. In local theatres here, in theatres of friends of mine around the US, we all commented on how strange it was that half to 3/4ths of the theatre showings were replaced with HP7-2. Even more impressive was that they almost all were sold out.
 
P

Philosopher B.

Even though this movie completes that which came before, I preferred Part 1.

It's hard to maintain momentum when you keep introducing concepts/characters. A hojillion minutes/pages in, and now we're learning about Helena goddamn Ravenclaw.

I regret not re-reading book 7, because I had trouble remembering how some of the events originally played out. For instance: the wand shenanigans. Did they go down like that? Because if Draco wasn't holding the Elder Wand when Harry defeated him, then how in the hell did it switch allegiances? That really struck me as dumb.

Stuff I liked:

1) Helena Bonham Carter. I wasn't even particularly overjoyed when Bellatrix Lestrange came onto the page, but when she shows up in the movies, it's bloody electrifying. Helena C. is so much more terrifying than Voldemort, it's not even funny.

2) The polyjuice scene, which ruled. Seeing Bellatrix/Hermione stumble awkwardly about trying to remember to act tough and failing was a bleeding riot. HBC is among my favorite actors in this series, alongside Alan Rickman, David Thewlis, and Robbie Coltrane (who got shafted in the last couple of movies).

3) The Neville stuff, though yeah, the speech was kinda cheesy.

I must admit, despite the problems and how weird it feels to watch a two-hour ten-minute climax, I got choked up at several points knowing it's all done with (especially when the whole audience clapped at the end). In a house of seven, everyone but my troglodyte dad read the books voraciously as they came out. Say what you will, but it was an addictive series that reached an astoundingly wide and diverse audience.
 
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