Tips and the Service Industry.

Should management be able to take a portion of their staffs tips?

  • Yes, I work in the service industry & they have to cover their credit card fees somehow.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, I work in the service industry and it's not a tip for the management, it's for the waitstaff.

    Votes: 5 14.7%

  • Yes, I do not work in the service industry & they have to cover their credit card fees somehow.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, I do not work in the service industry and it's not a tip for the management, it's for my waiter.

    Votes: 29 85.3%
  • Total voters
    34
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K

kaykordeath

Ravenpoe said:
A restaurant hires wait staff for a certain amount, this is a business expense. You have no business without people to work it.
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I'd like to reiterate the "business expense" aspect of this. Operating costs, rent, utilities, insurance, licensing, etc should all recouped through revenue, ie the paying customers. I fail to see how a credit card service fee would be any different than a fee charged by the management's accountant, or a monthly bank account fee. The ability to process credit cards comes along with fees. When the management made the decisions to accept cards (a choice they could have made differently) than they must factor into the business plan how to cover those expenses.

I know many people who prefer to tip in cash when paying by credit card. What happens if management decides that a particular server is earning too much of their tips in cash and therefore isn't pulling their weight on covering credit card fees?
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
stienman said:
Are you saying we should legislate that credit card processing fees for tips should be paid by the employer? Because if it's fundamentally wrong, then that's what should occur, right?
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I disagree. Just because something is wrong doesn't mean it should be legislated against. Something can be wrong without being an injustice. It's wrong to serve an overcooked steak, and a poor business decision, but it's not an injustice that needs to be made illegal. I think it's wrong for a business to slap a percentage fee on tips, and a poor business decision, but it's not an injustice to the wait-staff (unless there are already laws about the handling of tips in general that would prevent such).
 
strawman

strawman

kaykordeath said:
I'd like to reiterate the "business expense" aspect of this. Operating costs, rent, utilities, insurance, licensing, etc should all recouped through revenue
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So... the tip is not revenue?

Also, the accountant doesn't charged based on a percentage of the cost of the transaction. Some business costs are fixed, and those should be covered by the business.

The monthly charge for credit card processing is fixed, and covered by the business. The percentage based on the charged amount is not fixed - so why should it be covered by the business?

Just because the revenue goes straight to the waiter doesn't mean that fees incurred to collect the tip should be covered as a business expense.
 
phil

phil

But the fee covers the whole meal, not just the tip. At most the wages taken from the waiter should be in direct proportion to the tip.
 
K

kaykordeath

stienman said:
So... the tip is not revenue?
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I'd argue that it isn't. It's akin to a person renting a table at a flea market. They pay a flat fee to lease the space...the market doesn't charge based on how much they sell. The server is working at the restaurant in exchange for the restaurant hiring an employee at less than minimum wage. The 5 dollars an hour under minimum is their "payment" to the restaurant in exchange for the opportunity to make tips.

Just because the revenue goes straight to the waiter doesn't mean that fees incurred to collect the tip should be covered as a business expense.
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Perhaps if the whole restaurant was set up on a profit-sharing basis I'd agree...but the ownership has their source of revenue in food and drinks...the servers have their services.[/quote][/quote]
 
Jay

Jay

In Europe they automatically add the tip to your bill. This enrages me so much. Especially since it almost removes incentive for the waiting staff to do their jobs with gusto.

And I'm in the "I'm tipping the waitstaff, not the restaurant." court as well.
 
Frank

Frank

You know what's more offensive to me? The fact that more and more fast food/drink places where you order at a counter and pick it up at a counter are having tip options turned on on their debit machines, where you're prompted to tip the person at the Booster Juice who just tossed the banana in the blender that you're paying 6 dollars for.
 
P

phil too lazy to log in

Frankie Williamson said:
You know what's more offensive to me? The fact that more and more fast food/drink places where you order at a counter and pick it up at a counter are having tip options turned on on their debit machines, where you're prompted to tip the person at the Booster Juice who just tossed the banana in the blender that you're paying 6 dollars for.
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For what it's worth, if you tip the guy at a fast food place you'll brighten their day just a little. We're your waiter AND your cook.

Just throwin' that out there.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

I don't know what its like elsewhere, but here, waiters and bartenders actually make LESS than minimum wage (Well, technically it is minimum wage, but minimum wage is just lower for any positions that serve alcohol). They therefore rely on those tips a great deal more than many people think. But the management? Their salary is unaffected by that.
 
Terrik

Terrik

As far as this issue goes, when I give a tip, it's for the waiter.

Frankie Williamson said:
You know what's more offensive to me? The fact that more and more fast food/drink places where you order at a counter and pick it up at a counter are having tip options turned on on their debit machines, where you're prompted to tip the person at the Booster Juice who just tossed the banana in the blender that you're paying 6 dollars for.
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I agree. Living in Asia without a 'tipping' culture has made me hate that even more. It does put me in an awkward position. On one hand, I understand that people rely on these tips. On the other hand, there's times where the actual work the waiter did simply isn't worth the 5 bucks they expect from you and they get indignant if you don't give it to them, because again, they rely on them.

I have a question though--I know some waitstaff find tips part of the appeal of the job. You do have the chance to make a good bit of money on a good day. However it's often hit or miss, hence why some people get upset over 2%. If a waitstaff job was more like Asia (or wherever else doesn't have such a culture)--with say, a higher base salary but no tips, would you still want to be a waiter/waitress?
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I would have never served tables if I had ever had another opportunity in that time in my life. The bartendering was VERY good to me, so there I won't complain, but serving tables? It's legal slave labor.
 
Frank

Frank

All the waitresses I know seem to make more money than anyone else working service. Most of the girls at the old regular bar would pull in a couple hundred bucks a night on tips.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Its also quite seasonal. My sister used to be dirt poor during the winter when she was waitressing because people don't tip when they have no money from overspending on Christmas shopping.
 
Espy

Espy

Terrik, if you want higher wages for waitstaff so you don't have to tip expect to see significantly higher prices at every restaurant, coffeeshop and bar you visit. That money doesn't magically appear.
 
Terrik

Terrik

Espy said:
Terrik, if you want higher wages for waitstaff so you don't have to tip expect to see significantly higher prices at every restaurant, coffeeshop and bar you visit. That money doesn't magically appear.
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Do you believe the prices would be higher than current prices + tip(15%-20%)? Or would it come out to about the same?

If #2, i'd prefer #2. That way waitstaff have a steadier income that isn't based so much on chance and the 'generosity' of the public and I don't have to deal with whether or not to add on another $10 to my bill. The price is the price.

Maybe that seems like a minor issue, and maybe it is. However, other things can come into play as well. In China, I never feel guilty about going into a restaurant and chatting away for 2-3 hours, and perhaps not ordering anything for a good chunk of that time. There's no tipping, so I'm not taking away potential income from a waiter/waitress by occupying 'their' table and they don't feel the need to politely hint that I should get moving and I feel like less of a jerk for doing it.

Anything if this seems like rambling, ignore it. I can't seem to bring together cohesive thoughts today.
Added at: 12:56
AshburnerX said:
Don't kid yourself. What she does, she does for Chaos.
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But for which Chaos god, I wonder.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

On Topic: Women don't instantly make more money in the industry. Women who verbally whore themselves out do. I treated my serving job as a job and not a place to be a fully dressed stripper. I made decent money until I moved into bartending. Then it didn't matter if I "flirted" or not, they paid much more just to have me flare pour them drinks. Still, I landed ALOT of the girls I one-night-stood in my early 20s during my bartending days almost more than I do now.

Still on the side rant: I really need to read some Warhammer 40k. This avatar is 100% GasB inspired from the previous thread about the US assassination.
 
Terrik

Terrik

Shegokigo said:
Still on the side rant: I really need to read some Warhammer 40k. This avatar is 100% GasB inspired from the previous thread about the US assassination.
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I got introduced to 40K through the Eisenhorn trilogy. It's a good a place to start as any.
 
Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

Shegokigo said:
Still on the side rant: I really need to read some Warhammer 40k. This avatar is 100% GasB inspired from the previous thread about the US assassination.
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You'll enjoy the fluff. Everyone dies, or is betrayed, or otherwise gets dicked over by the universe.

ON-TOPIC: Something that I discovered that got me tips, as a server was actually treating customers as people, rather than an inconvenience. I'd talk to them, if they had an odd accent, I'd ask where they were from (curiously, not challengingly), and ask how they enjoyed it down here. If they had kids, I'd play with them a little. I did my best to ensure that they got timely service without hovering.

If I get servers who show a little professionalism in how they operate, they get extra. If I get the ones who I can almost HEAR them sighing impatiently, or otherwise acting like I'm taking them away from a VERY important Facebook session... they can fish pennies from my cup of cold coffee.
 
Frank

Frank

Officer_Charon said:
ON-TOPIC: Something that I discovered that got me tips, as a server was actually treating customers as people, rather than an inconvenience. I'd talk to them, if they had an odd accent, I'd ask where they were from (curiously, not challengingly)
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Bingo. It's not called the service industry for nothing. I don't expect waitresses (or waiters) to be whores. I want them to not treat me like my existence is a huge fucking pain in their ass. I know I'm a pretty easy going customer and am not hard to please.
 
M

makare

My favorite waiters are the ones who do the service stuff like bring soda or whatever and then leave me alone. I mean I don't mind chatting a bit but the other day I had this waiter who kept replacing my drink before I had even taken two sips. Now it was just water but still. wtf. Let me drink my water!
 
Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

That's just it: you have to find that mix between helpfulness and aloofness. Some tables WANT you to sit and chat with them (older women, especially, in my case), so long as you're making sure they get their food.
 
LordRendar

LordRendar

Waiters in Germany get arounf 7,50€ before taxes per hour.Tips are usually between 2-5 euro.Depending on the store,the tips are placed in a Jar and at the end of the day,its evenly devided betweem all the waitstaff of that day.
 
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