[Webcomic] PVP Discussion

figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
I hate GoComics. What they call an RSS feed is pathetic; it's just a link to the comic page. The site is cluttered and their comics are tiny. It's really pathetic and I can't imagine why anyone would trust them to market their comic on the web.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Dave said:
With 600k per day hits, even a well-placed link or ad would have an effect. That site gets about 9x the daily traffic of pvponline.
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9x the traffic for a site hosting a couple hundred comic strips. How many of those are regular readers, and how many are just there for one strip that someone sent them a link to? Even if they do advertise the winning strip, are the people whose eyballs are on GoComics people that are going to be regular readers of a webcomic?
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
In the end how much does it matter? If you are after traffic and ad revenue they win regardless of where the traffic comes from as long as the numbers are consistent.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Dave said:
In the end how much does it matter? If you are after traffic and ad revenue they win regardless of where the traffic comes from as long as the numbers are consistent.
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I'm thinking long-term. Sure, they're going to get traffic if GoComics promotes them*, but how long will that last after GoComics is done with that? If the majority of people who click the promoted link on GoComics only read the strip that day, and never bookmark it or return, then those page-views are going to disappear as soon as the promotion from GoComics stops.


*There is no promise of promotion by GoComics, just that they'll be run there. I find a lack of details or contest rules disturbing.
 
drifter

drifter

Yeah, the "if" is really the crux of the matter. If you're GoComics, are you gonna spend the adspace on a complete unknown versus a known commodity? Gotta keep that headspace, yo.
Added at: 16:24
By the way, just hit up GoComics and got today's FoxTrot. I chuckled.
 
evilmike

evilmike

Dave said:
In the end how much does it matter? If you are after traffic and ad revenue they win regardless of where the traffic comes from as long as the numbers are consistent.
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In all seriousness, couldn't you consult with the same people that Kurtz is offering his services to?
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I could, but how much would they charge? Gary Gygax once offered to look at the RPG I wrote. I was understandably excited until he followed it up with $1000 an hour.
 
evilmike

evilmike

Dave said:
I could, but how much would they charge? Gary Gygax once offered to look at the RPG I wrote. I was understandably excited until he followed it up with $1000 an hour.
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It's not "how much would they charge?" -- it's "how much would you charge?" Somehow I don't think Kurtz actually has a pricing stucture. If I had to guess, I'd say that all he has right now is a rant.
 
Steve

Steve

This was my favorite part "We’ll consult for the highest bidder. Maybe that’s Jim Davis or Lynn Johnston. They both have pretty nice houses and could afford us. Then they get to keep all our knowledge for themselves and don’t have to share it with the syndicate. Maybe Mort Walker hires us and just shelves us so that nobody else can have us and he can die with the most money." We all know Jim Davis sure could use the help. Or Mort Walker realizing that their knowledge is so powerful it could elevate Mort's greatest rivals to the top of the webcomic game so he wants to shelf the vast knowledge of this consulting group. I'm starting my own consulting firm. Jim Davis, listen up. First you get a video camera, then you get two girls, then you get one cup. . . want to know the rest? Pay my damn fee.
 
Null

Null

Dave said:
Ugh. Anyone read his blog post?
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Yeah, I think before he starts "Educating" people on how to run their webcomic for consultancy rates, he might want to a) develop a goddamn buffer so a day's comic isn't posted several hours into the next day, at least twice a week, and b) grow the fuck up.
 
Frank

Frank

I know you guys like to knock him but he seems to be one of the more successful web comics guys. Who else should be educating them?
 
drifter

drifter

Guys like Howard Taylor and Robert Khoo, who actually have a business background? Scott is very successful, but if I were a wet-behind-the-ears webcomic artist, I don't know that I'd want to depend on Scott's business acumen to make a viable career out of my scribblins.
 
Mathias

Mathias

Frankie Williamson said:
I know you guys like to knock him but he seems to be one of the more successful web comics guys. Who else should be educating them?
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He's successful out of sheer luck of the draw, and now due to his association with Gabe and Tycho. His comic gathered a following early on when there was a niche for that sort of thing. His business savvy sucks, and he's a pompous ass to boot. I guess I'd take him more seriously if he didn't spend half his time bad-mouthing everyone else in his fucking field, and pining about how PvP should be in the newspapers and pretending he doesn't give a shit it's not. He thinks he's supposed to be the next Bill Waterson or some shit, when in actuality, he's a poor-man's Jim Davis.

Webcomics are something you should do because you love to do it. To attempt to make a living off of webcomics is a very risky venture. The market is WAAAAYY over-saturated. If you do have a comic, it better be f-in good or it's going to flop like a bass in a a boat. Listen to Kurtz? You're much better off reading books about small business, and web business ownership.

As far as the art goes, you're not going to learn much from him either. I believe a webcomic (or any comic) relies more on the storytelling than the art. The art is a secondary expression that should match the writing. It's something you can't learn, it's something you develop.
 
Null

Null

The other things, one month Scott's trying to tear the syndicates a new asshole, the next he's kissing their asses, and now it's "time to show them how it's done on the interweb". Makes me think of someone throwing a tantrum and shouting "Why Won't You Love MEEE?!!!"


just like Nick's prom night.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Not PVP but Nostalgia Critic commentary on one of his less-popular videos.

At around 9 minutes, he starts talking about what he was going to do for a follow-up video, how it was going to be about how people were getting critical of his working hard to deliver free content. At around 10 minutes, he talks about showing it to other Channel Awesome people and the CEO saying that they can't really hide behind the free entertainment defense anymore, that they needed to be taking this seriously.

Thought it was interesting and relevant to certain PVP-related blurbs.
 
Steve

Steve

I like the video and the Nostalgia Critic makes some great point. He hit it right on the head when he said you can have several hits but have one miss and you'd better know how to handle the criticism because you can turn off your audience and have a hard time getting them back. Interesting reading the Twitter exchange between Scott and The Daily Cartoonist. Scott sent him a message wanting to know why he wasn't running the consulting story on The Daily Cartoonist website. The response was "U have a lot to offer. Seriously. Pitch proposal like a businessman instead of snark blog post and then it's news." Scott's response "It's news, either way, Alan, you're just a pandering dolt, not a journalist. Not even a good blogger." Then he takes a shot at the story currently running on The Daily Cartoonist.
From a page view stand I think the late updates help drive PVP's numbers. I check the site several times a day (out of habit). I check on my work PC and if it's updated I'm done. If not I'll check again on my home PC when I get home. If still not updated I'll check at the end of the day when I'm on the laptop before bed. Three hits from one person. If he had 10,000 people do the same thing that's some good page views.
 
Null

Null

That's a darn good point. I wonder how many of his pageviews are unique, rather than people checking 3 or 4 times a day to see if the goddamn strip is up yet.
 
Steve

Steve

Oh, I agree. Even without the multiple hits he still pulls in the numbers. And I do agree with you in regards to him hitting his stride again. Not sure what the catalyst was (maybe the move to Seattle and getting around other creative types) but I've enjoyed the strip now more than not. I need to take your advise and just not read any of his tweets or posts. I love the strip, I love the videos he and Kris put out, I can't stand the arrogant childlike tantrums he throws over things he really shouldn't give two flips about.
 
Adam

Adam

Not sure where the Tastemaker is going with this Dad thing, but I hope it's not:

Dad has a health problem during the arm wrestle and there's a big dramatic arc of dealing with a convalescent father.

or

Dad discovers he is weaker than Brent and the rest of the Xmas holidays are spent trying to one up Brent until familial love in the last pane of the last comic arc.

Judging from facial expressions, I'm leaning more towards the former.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Adammon said:
Judging from facial expressions, I'm leaning more towards the former.
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Personally I wouldn't mind seeing strips about Brent being paranoid about both happening, and trying to figure out what's going on, with the truth never revealed as to how Brent won.
 
Norris

Norris

Looks like Brent's dad is just getting old. I dunno. Not wanting to face your parent's aging into...well, old people is a good source for both comedy and light drama.
 
Krisken

Krisken

I do have one question for Kurtz, though. If newspapers are going to be 'extinct in 5 years', why does the number of papers I am delivering stay the same?
 
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