[Question] What's your favorite flavor of Magic
- Thread starter Bowielee
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figmentPez
Staff member
I'd agree if I were actually trying to refute magic with scientific knowledge. However, I was trying to compare/contrast magic to science, and show how magic works much better when it is not science (or rather, takes place in a fiction where the scientific method cannot be applied.) You do appreciate the concept of comparing/contrasting two ideas to highlight the differences and examine what makes them unique right?
M
makare
This is all magic school bus magic.
So this is what Family Guy is for.
M
makare
I'll tell you what it's not for and then youll understand why i can never go back to seaworld
To Gusto (and others with this sort of opinion).
Run, do not walk, to your nearest bookstore/library/internet portal and acquire some or all of the following books:
-Lyndon Hardy's Magics trilogy.
-Any of Lawrence Watt-Evans' Ethshar novels (goodreads link here).
-Christopher Stasheff's Wizard in Rhyme novels.
Seriously, if you have not already been introduced to any of these series, go out into the back yard, dig up that coffee can, and put Master of the Five Magics, Her Majesty's Wizard, and The Misenchanted Sword in your cart. It will cost you about $9. All three of them take place in distinct universes where Magic happens because of certain rules, just like physics, or chemistry. And unlike certain other continuities, these rules are 99% strictly adhered to throughout*. If it happens, it is because it is one of the Rules Of The Universe. And if anyone knows of anything similar that I haven't mentioned, I would be interested to know of it.
--Patrick
*Within the individual books I've read, at least.
The poll options are all wrong... the 1st one should be Magic A is Magic A!
That seems to be a professional defect for a lot of specialized science types... not using the terminology they use tends to make them think you're wrong... wonder how that works when communicating between specialities where they use slightly different terms for the same thing...
Do it.
It's been mentioned before, but I think Jim Butcher makes the best "system" of magic I've ever read. It even follows the laws of physics with mass and stuff, it's just a matter of wizards being able to manipulate energy. But he also adds other types of magic like necromancy and even faith WHILE MAKING SENSE. He also combines like every single mythology, from Odin to archangels passing through Shakespeare's fairies and fairy tale trolls, seamlessly. And vampires and werewolves, of course.
Hell, I think his is my favorite treatment of vampires, up there with World of Darkness'.
Hell, I think his is my favorite treatment of vampires, up there with World of Darkness'.
Necronic
Staff member
What so I'm the only one who chooses necromancy? Definitely not going to bring yall back from the dead. At least not with full reincarnation spells.
Also Calleja I would have thought you would be more into the elemental magics. Like frost spells and stuff.
Edit: YOu know there was a fantasy book I read years ago (ok decades ago) that had to do with magic being about these invisible strings. I think it was called Changeling...I can't remember.
Also Calleja I would have thought you would be more into the elemental magics. Like frost spells and stuff.
Edit: YOu know there was a fantasy book I read years ago (ok decades ago) that had to do with magic being about these invisible strings. I think it was called Changeling...I can't remember.
M
makare
If "magic" functions as a science/logic how is it magic? I guess I don't understand that part
No, come on, how is being able to conjure up fire "physics"? The logical part is where the energy comes from, how the conjurer has to keep in mind how heat affects things like air. I mean magic that's bound by a logical set of rules.
For example, Harry Dresden uses concussive magic but is quite adamant in reminding the reader that force equals mass times acceleration, so a small "ball" of concussive energy traveling fast can pack more punch than a large one traveling slower, stuff like that.
There's logic to how they make potions too, having to use one ingredient for each of the senses and and extra "spirit" one. Does that make sense?
For example, Harry Dresden uses concussive magic but is quite adamant in reminding the reader that force equals mass times acceleration, so a small "ball" of concussive energy traveling fast can pack more punch than a large one traveling slower, stuff like that.
There's logic to how they make potions too, having to use one ingredient for each of the senses and and extra "spirit" one. Does that make sense?
Yeah, and the Dresden files are also very specific about how wizards have to soak up energy and that's what's expended when they cast spells, and they can even actually "empty their tank" and be left helpless. Logic, energy isn't created, just transformed.
It's just that these fuckers can transform it into 20-foot cones of fiery inferno.
It's just that these fuckers can transform it into 20-foot cones of fiery inferno.
Trying to explain a fictional occurrence like magic through "science" screws it up. Period. Most of the "scientific explanations" behind magic in fiction are shotty pseudo knowledge of how shit really works slammed together in a work of fiction, so the author can cop out with a "it's fiction" excuse for the bad science. You want fiction based on science? Science-Fiction, in particular Star Trek. Fantasy doesn't need bullcrap, lame explanations for how the magic works. It just does. That's why it's magic. That's the marvel behind it. Star Wars is a great example of a fine mesh of science as a plot device behind the technology with a hint of magic and mysticism through the force. Well that was all fucked over when George Lucas tried to explain a biological reason for the Force.
My favorite thing to do is analyze a work of fiction and rationalize why the hell it wouldn't work in reality or the astounding numbers involved in making it work in realty, rather than justify why it would with garbage logic.
My favorite thing to do is analyze a work of fiction and rationalize why the hell it wouldn't work in reality or the astounding numbers involved in making it work in realty, rather than justify why it would with garbage logic.
Dude, it's magic working according to the laws of physics, not the laws of physics being used magically. There's a difference. The explanation is wizards have a, yes, SUPERNATURAL ability to work with the NATURAL energies. This is in a world where the Winter and Summer court are in constant battle with vampires and werewolves as their lackeys while Odin is CEO of a Swedish multinational company. No one is trying to use "scientific explanations" for magic, just having magic working logically.
Too bad there was not an option for physical magic. Where the spell is placed upon your body. To cast an active spell you must trace the tattoo that is on your body.
Necronic
Staff member
Ah ok.
I guess my issue with the whole Logical System over Art thing is that if Magic was as difficult to learn as Advanced Biochemistry or Real Analysis I would be like "pfff I'm gonna go roll a rogue"
well, yeah, in the dresdenverse you don't only have to be born with the ability, you need to spend years and years and years of ARDUOUS training to get to even minor spells. It takes mind clarity on par with Buddhist monks for really powerful magic. The advantage is that wizard bodies are more resilient and live hundreds of years.... so.. yeah. That's why wizards are rare, and most do simple stuff like tracking spells. The number of really powerful "battle" wizards in the entire planet is low. Of course, that's the long route. You can get one of the Faire Courts to just instantly give you huge power. And become their pawn.
Oh, how I miss those books, I can't wait for the next one.
Oh, how I miss those books, I can't wait for the next one.
or god forbid, the fate and transport of organic and inorganic chemical systems. thats why I play a fighter
You guys should really read the Dresden Files, I'm not being fair in my explanation of the "system", Butcher really built a mythology that's awe-inspiring in its clever simplicity. The fucker takes pretty much every single lore and mythology into the "real world", and makes it work seamlessly. That Bram Stoker wrote "Dracula" exposed to the world at large the weakness of the Black Court vampires (sunlight, stakes, etc) made them almost extinct, Merlin was a real historical figure, Odin and Michael the Archangel are competing for attention of our hero and all while the Leaninsidhe from Celtic mythology plays with him while running from Queen Mab of Shakespeare fame. Not to mention the other vampire courts, the (several) different types of werewolves, mummies, ghosts, spirits... basically, everything fantasy has created in one cohesive world, narrated in first person by a geek who quotes Star Wars every other sentence.
And never wears a hat, no matter what the cover artist wants you to think (it's become sort of a running joke)
And never wears a hat, no matter what the cover artist wants you to think (it's become sort of a running joke)
I'm gonna starting using "in the Dresdenverse" as reasoning in all arguments from now on.
"In the DRESDENVERSE, people can magic whatever they wanna say in the Cosplay forum."
"In the Dresden Files, Nick's prom night is magicked into an unmemorable evening."
"God, I want Harry Dresden's big hunk of man-meat in my wizard. With Dresden physics."
Actually, I feel like I need to check those books out now, so maybe Calleja's method is working, if not for the argument, then for advertising.
"In the DRESDENVERSE, people can magic whatever they wanna say in the Cosplay forum."
"In the Dresden Files, Nick's prom night is magicked into an unmemorable evening."
"God, I want Harry Dresden's big hunk of man-meat in my wizard. With Dresden physics."
Actually, I feel like I need to check those books out now, so maybe Calleja's method is working, if not for the argument, then for advertising.
Looking them up on the Kindle Store. 9.99 for an eBook lolwut
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