Bootlegged Amazing Spider-Man Trailer

[Bowielee]

Here's the thing, Superman CAN be really interesting movie-wise if:

A) They focus on the fact that he has to come to grips that he really is a stranger in a strange land. That's one of the few things that Smallville got right. Also on the fact that he really does have to make tough choices. He can't be everywhere at once and unlike Batman, he can't fall back on the excuse that he's only human.

B) They give him a villain that's actually a threat. Sure Lex is his nemesis, but he's got literally decades worth of villains to chose from. Darksied, Mongul, Parasite, Metallo, Braniac etc.. All have been shown through Superman: TAS and Justice Leage to be villains that both present an actual threat to Superman and can be made into complex characters. Which kind of pisses me off that in the new Superman, they're going with Zod as the villain. We've SEEN that story already. UGH.

C) Show that his infallible morality can be just as much a weakness as it can be a strength. It's the reason that the Joker almost always bests Superman when he blows into Metropolis and Batman has to swoop in to save the day.

Overall, I DO love Superman as a character, but it takes some actual work to write him in a way that's compelling.

 

[Hailey Knight]

C) Show that his infallible morality can be just as much a weakness as it can be a strength. It's the reason that the Joker almost always bests Superman when he blows into Metropolis and Batman has to swoop in to save the day.

I actually did love Joker's shtick in the TAS movie World's Finest. After failing to get Superman on the first try, he just decides to fuck over the whole city.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Yes, Nick, really.

Mr. Incredible has been in ONE movie. ONE appearance. And he's 100x more interesting and three dimensional than Superman.

Your opinion. And the more you try to argue about it, the more you're just trolling.

 

[Mathias]

I'm not trying to troll. Don't be a cop-out with that response. You're just too Superman love drunk to realize what a shitty character he is.

 

[Bowielee]

I'm not trying to troll. Don't be a cop-out with that response. You're just too Superman love drunk to realize what a shitty character he is.

See my post above. Yes you are trolling if all you're doing is tossing out glib dismissals rather than actually making points.

Superman HAS been fleshed out in the years and years of media he's appeared in, but with a character like Superman, you have to really work to write him well. A Batman or Spider-Man story writes itself for the most part. The characters already have built in tension and drama. With Superman, you actually have to get creative.

Also, you fail at trolling as well. Had you used Invincible as your example, it would have been at least accurate.

 

[Mathias]

See my post above. Yes you are trolling if all you're doing is tossing out glib dismissals rather than actually making points.

Superman HAS been fleshed out in the years and years of media he's appeared in, but with a character like Superman, you have to really work to write him well. A Batman or Spider-Man story writes itself for the most part. The characters already have built in tension and drama. With Superman, you actually have to get creative.

And that's fine, I just have yet to see a Superman story get creative enough to make him interesting. Hell, has his personality ever been actually fleshed out? Has he ever gotten the ol' truth, justice, and the American way dick removed from his eyes? Or is the world still black and white to Superman? Bad guys are bad guys; good guys are good. Right? That's what I mean about seeing better character development in the Incredibles.

 

[checkeredhat]

I have to agree, I find Superman extremely 1 dimensional. That isn't to say the comics are badly written, nor is it to say that Spider-Man comics are better written. Both, as well as Batman and every other superhero to have their own comic, are 90% garbage, 8% mediocrity, and 2% gold. But the characters themselves? Spider-Man and Batman both are far more interesting than Supes. That's just the truth. The only way a character like Superman can work is as part of a team like the JLA, because he is so 1 dimensional the only way to get any conflict of personality is by ACTUALLY including other personalities.

 

[ElJuski]

I find Superman boring. But there are other people that do not find Superman boring.

Discuss.

 

[Espy]

I find Superman boring. But there are other people that do not find Superman boring.

Discuss.

You shouldn't start a sentence with "but". I mean, you know this Juski. YOU KNOW THIS.

Also, Superman can fly AND shoot lasers from his eyes. Thats pretty bad ass. If I was him I wouldn't worry about being interested I'd just be flying around shooting laser beams at things.

 

[ElJuski]

Actually, given context, formality, and writer's choice, beginning a sentence with the word 'but' can be very effective.

Bitch.

 

[Espy]

I've believed in nothing but lies my whole life.

 

[ElJuski]

said the smoking baby, under his breath. Casually, with hands shaking a little, he lit another cigarette.

 

[Espy]

Thread pretty much over people. Ain't gonna get any better than this.

 

[ElJuski]

makes me wonder how this all would have transpired if I used a coordinating conjunction instead of two complete sentences.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

And that's fine, I just have yet to see a Superman story get creative enough to make him interesting. Hell, has his personality ever been actually fleshed out? Has he ever gotten the ol' truth, justice, and the American way dick removed from his eyes? Or is the world still black and white to Superman? Bad guys are bad guys; good guys are good. Right? That's what I mean about seeing better character development in the Incredibles.

Sure he has. It wasn't until during and after WWII that he developed the "American Way" stuff. Before that, when he was less powered, he represented the plight of the working class against factory bosses or the generally downtrodden. He also represented the ideal immigrant, who's able to come from a foreign land and is accepted into American society. In fact, given that he had to hide his "true" self, there's also the metaphor of the Jewish immigrant and anti-semitism. It wasn't until later that he became synonymous with baseball and apple pie.

As I said, he can be stale at times, but so can Batman. It all depends on the writer. The best writers are the ones that realize that he's a guy who, while he tries to do the right thing all the time, he knows he can't always be there in time. He's also a travelled journalist, so he knows that the American Way is just an ideal, not one that may represent the country currently. He doesn't see things in black and white, he just believes that there's good in almost everyone, and believes in second chances. Besides, even though he prides himself on his honesty, he himself sees the irony of lying to everyone to hide his identity.

Anyway, here's some recommended material:

Superman: Secret Identity - While it's meant to take place in "our" world, with someone whose parents cruelly named him Clark Kent, this still captures the mood, ideas (and ideals) that Superman represents.

It's a Bird - This is a mature-readers graphic novel about a writer's attempt to write Superman. He also felt the same way about Superman and that's what he struggles with this assignment. I like this book a lot because it has several pages that are dedicated to studying different aspects of Superman, from his bright primary colours, to the whole "Truth, Justice, and the American Way," etc.

What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, & the American Way - This story was in Action Comics #750. There's a violent group of heroes who make fun of Superman for his old school ways...and Superman proves to them why they might be wrong.

Kingdom Come - This stars several DC characters (including some great Batman moments), but it's mostly focused on Supes. It takes place in the future, where the violent heroes have taken over and the "good" superheroes (Batman included) have disappeared or retired. But then when the violent ones go too far, the classic ones return and wind up clashing their ideals.

All Star Superman - This is probably my highest recommendation. It combines almost all of Superman silly elements (Krypto the superdog, different colours of Kryptonite, etc) and yet tells an incredibly down-to-earth story. It starts out with Superman finding out that he's dying. Does he finally tell Lois his identity? What about his legacy?

EDIT: Negative comments removed as part of the peace treaty.

 

[Covar]

Kingdom Come - This stars several DC characters (including some great Batman moments), but it's mostly focused on Supes. It takes place in the future, where the violent heroes have taken over and the "good" superheroes (Batman included) have disappeared or retired. But then when the violent ones go too far, the classic ones return and wind up clashing their ideals.

I love this book so much. An incredible story, absolutely gorgeous artwork, and wonderful themes.

 

[ElJuski]

Added at: 20:50
I've actually heard awesome things about Kingdom Come, and have been meaning to check it out.

 

[Espy]

General blanket statement of personal opinion phrased as fact.

 

[ElJuski]

General blanket statement of personal opinion phrased as fact.

 

[Covar]

Added at: 20:50
I've actually heard awesome things about Kingdom Come, and have been meaning to check it out.

Funny you say that in the same post as a DKR image. In many ways Kingdom Come is a response to the "grimdark" trend that was happening in comics during the 90s.

 

[figmentPez]

Mr. Incredible has been in ONE movie. ONE appearance. And he's 100x more interesting and three dimensional than Superman.

I'd argue that it's precisely because Superman has had thousands of appearances in various media that he's become such a generic character. Once Superman became an icon, all the times when he was used as just that icon started to drown out the comparatively few times when his character was actually explored.

Maybe it's a weird analogy, but it's like complaining that cheddar cheese is bland and uninteresting because store shelves are stocked with mostly Kraft. Yes, those huge blocks of Kraft mild cheddar cheese are mediocrity sold by the pound. Such blandness meets all the basic criteria to be called cheddar, but has almost nothing of what makes cheese special. However, that doesn't mean that all cheddar cheese is boring.

The same goes for Superman. There are many versions of the character that are bland caricatures, made by the most basic formula and with assembly-line results. That doesn't mean that Superman cannot be, or has not been, an interesting character.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Hey, remember when we were talking about the Spider-Man movie?

Those were good times.

 

[Vrii]

Not really. Kind of exactly the same thing as happened with the Superman conversation, actually.

 

[@Li3n]

Dude, Superman is the lamest of all the comic book heroes. Total Mary Sue character.

And there we have the real problem...

It's like the World of Cardboard thing at the end of JLU, that wasn't awesome (well the speech itself was nice), that was every Superman story DC thinks is the only acceptable story... Supes get his ass kicked around a few times, then goes SuperSayan and beats up the villain... the only thing that's changed is that they no longer have the same artist do his face no matter who's drawing the comic.

What would have been awesome is that after he finished his speech Darkseid gets up and reminds him he's a damn god of evil and kicks his ass some more... and not just one punch or something, but full on ass kicking... and at the end it turns out Supes has just been distracting him etc.

But that's not how DC wants Superman used... which is why no villain is ever stronger then Supes after their initial appearance...

Supes is the original DBZ syndrome sufferer...


Of course the funny thing is that the Silver Age did have some people beat Supes in strength based combat it seems: http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/comic_coverage/2006/12/cover_to_cover__4.html

 

[Steve]

Superman took over Spiderman's thread. Superman. . . Spiderman's greatest nemesis. I feel like Superman in one dimensional as well but I love the character much like I loved Hulk Hogan in the 80's. He's the quintessential good guy and there is a place for that. Other characters are more entertaining but I will put up the first two Christopher Reeve Superman movies against 95% of all other comic book movies. Those two movies show that good Superman movies can be made. I agree with finding a new villain. We've seen enough of Lex as the main threat. I have high hopes for the new Superman movie though.

 

[Mathias]

Edit. Removed

 

[ThatNickGuy]

EDIT: Removed.

 

[Steve]

!

The Superman movie that could have saved the franchise. Tim Burton with Nick Cage as Supes. With pic of Nick at the end.

 

[Shegokigo]

Man Nic was WAY out of it in that picture

 

[Mathias]

Removed by me.

 

[Vrii]

Goodbye, thread.

 

[Dave]

And now we continue with SPiderman/Superman or whatever the hell this thread was about.

Nick & Matt have been speaking in conversations and we're all cool. Mods didn't intervene and they self-edited their posts.

Nothing to see here but adults having differences and then moving on after talking it out.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

That and we're meeting at high noon tomorrow to duel with pistols.

 

[Mathias]

He only thinks I'm counting to 10....

 

[@Li3n]

Speaking of Spidey:


Teh ears are too big and the hoodie too small, but otherwise that's a perfect goblin face right there...

Instead they went with the helmet with the mouth always openned... the mouth always being opened annoys me so for some reason...