Worse and Worse and Worse...Phantom Menace goes 3-D
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figmentPez
Staff member
That passage doesn't in any way indicate which of them shot first. Regardless of who shot first, Han never would have had a chance to get to his blaster at all if Greedo hadn't been stupid enough to let him put his hands under the table.
The entire premise that Han is a dirty dealer and is redeemed into a hero by the end of the saga is one of the biggest growth stories of that time. For him to go back and say "oh he was a good guy the whole time, just misunderstood" is as bad as the "Nooooo!" added to Vader in the Emperor Toss scene.
ElJuski
Staff member
Worse. It completely dismantles the character's motivations while continuing to destroy the charm of the series.
On another note, my co-worker has never seen any of these films and refuses to see them based on some sort of stupid cheeky "i'm different!" sense of self-satisfaction. Couldn't even play into the whole, "WHATTTTT" factor. I just grumpily shook my head.
There are hipster gamers. They only play indie games you've never heard of.
figmentPez
Staff member
I think what's telling is that it doesn't mention Greedo firing at all, and the reaction of other patrons to Han turning Greedo into a greasy stain is that they expected such behavior from him. He wasn't a good guy shockingly pushed too far, he was a ruthless smuggler who shot a bounty hunter because that was the surest way to keep on living.
That really is it. When the whole Greedo shooting first thing first erupted, I had no recollection of Greedo even shooting, because it never fucking happened.
Not a damn thing Lucas says can be trusted. As we've seen in the prequel trilogy, any semblance of understanding for story-telling and character development has been discarded, if he ever had it at all. He just wants to see flashy lights and spaceships, made by people more talented than he'll ever be.
Not a damn thing Lucas says can be trusted. As we've seen in the prequel trilogy, any semblance of understanding for story-telling and character development has been discarded, if he ever had it at all. He just wants to see flashy lights and spaceships, made by people more talented than he'll ever be.
This sounds like the longest courtroom scene ever of, "Ok timmy, show me on the movie where the bad director touched you..."
Does it deserve this much angst?
He doesn't even have to be lying - it was well over 30 years ago! The story has evolved in his mind, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs and desires, etc. He may have meant it the way he's saying it now, or he may have changed to the point where he believes it now, but he believed differently then.
If he hadn't made the movie until today, and released it with the changes you're complaining about, you wouldn't be complaining about this particular bit - there are doubtless lots of other character inconsistencies to whine about, this one is pretty minimal.
Besides, who says Han has changed at all? If anything he found a pretty face, and aligned himself with the more profitable side. He doesn't need to have changed at all, because guys will do stupid things for girls even if they are smugglers that cut and run when the heat is on.
Does it deserve this much angst?
He doesn't even have to be lying - it was well over 30 years ago! The story has evolved in his mind, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs and desires, etc. He may have meant it the way he's saying it now, or he may have changed to the point where he believes it now, but he believed differently then.
If he hadn't made the movie until today, and released it with the changes you're complaining about, you wouldn't be complaining about this particular bit - there are doubtless lots of other character inconsistencies to whine about, this one is pretty minimal.
Besides, who says Han has changed at all? If anything he found a pretty face, and aligned himself with the more profitable side. He doesn't need to have changed at all, because guys will do stupid things for girls even if they are smugglers that cut and run when the heat is on.
It's not angst; I just don't like that he's under-cutting it by saying "I meant it this way all along." I say that's bullshit. Nothing more.
If anything, the whole "I'm done with Star Wars" thing would merit some angst, because that's also not true. It's just less about Lucas lying to people and himself, and more about how when he decides he's not done, he's going to tweak them some more. As you said, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs. That's why he keeps changing things--the whole "original vision" is a pile of crap. There isn't one. He only sees what he feels like seeing at the moment. At the moment now, he's done with Star Wars. Just watch as the other films go into 3D releases in theaters and 3D televisions become more popular. He'll have his fingers in Star Wars again.
If anything, the whole "I'm done with Star Wars" thing would merit some angst, because that's also not true. It's just less about Lucas lying to people and himself, and more about how when he decides he's not done, he's going to tweak them some more. As you said, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs. That's why he keeps changing things--the whole "original vision" is a pile of crap. There isn't one. He only sees what he feels like seeing at the moment. At the moment now, he's done with Star Wars. Just watch as the other films go into 3D releases in theaters and 3D televisions become more popular. He'll have his fingers in Star Wars again.
If he would do this movie today it would be just one more SFX-crapfest among many and I wouldn't watch it. A Star wars movie of today would just not be what the Star wars movie from 1977 was back then.
Like it was siad earlier in this one or in another thread: the prequels were badly done movies and if they hadn't been labeled with Star Wars nobody would talk about them anymore.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Star wars is beloved because of its amazing (at the time) SFX, and because it was a break from science fiction movies of that era.
Not because it's a well acted, scripted, shot, or plotted film.
Please don't start claiming that Star Wars was anything more than a blockbuster that happened to hit the perfect audience at the perfect time with a reasonably good story, shooting, etc, and fantastic effects.
It would be lost now only because many people saw, within that film, the formula for what we now call "the summer blockbuster." You can mix decent actors, with decent story, an mediocre script/plot, and fantastic effects and make millions of dollars.
So you are correct - if he made it today, it would blend in with every other movie of the summer blockbuster genre that it largely created.
And it would compare poorly.
Your entire point, completely nullfied by the fact that he nearly killed himself to help Luke and the Rebellion finish off the Death Star. If he was "truly the evil scoundral" the whole time no amount of "pretty face" would have been worth his most likely death.
Also, "Maybe the story evolved in his head"? Now you're just taking an opposite viewpoint to be contridictory. Might as well sit here and and start talking about how any mass murderer wasn't guilty of being evil and we should have seen things from his point of view. *eyeroll*
I disagree that this couldn't possibly be true. She put her life on the line. He struggled with the decision, and ultimately he did too. What is his motivation? Maybe he experienced a change of heart. Maybe he'd grown close enough to his new friends that he couldn't imagine not putting himself out there as well, Maybe he was head over heals in love with her and knew he'd have no chance if he didn't put his life on the line. Maybe a little from all the above.
I'm not going to argue that this is actually what occurred, I'm simply saying that it's one possible interpretation, even though it's less likely than the crusty-on-the-outside-soft-in-the-middle bad guy redeems himself and joins the good side when the opportunity presented itself.
Either way, the han-shoots-first or greedo-shoots-first is not the lynchpin for Han's character that so many people are making it out to be. It's simply the most visible change which reflects his character more than all the other changes (the discussion with Jaba in the hangar, for instance).
Whoa, whoa, whoa, you might want to take a break from how many times you can be wrong today.
I'm not going to defend the original Star Wars for its script or acting (though I would defend Empire's script in parts), but it was well shot and well plotted. The plot is simple, but it's actually impressive watching it today how well the scenes fold onto each other and build toward the climax. There's a rhythm to it that you don't find in a lot of action movies and it's entirely possible that it's not something you can appreciate (my wife is that way--she doesn't see story structure; events are just clouds passing over in a line), but that's what plotting is.
On shooting, that's less to the movie's credit and more to the time period. If Star Wars was made today, it would likely not have much in the way of atmosphere, because most action movies these days don't bother with such a thing. This is likely an aspect of real sets/locations vs CGI, but I'm not gonna get into that. Star Wars built atmosphere because movies were allowed to take the time to do that back then. The cinematography wasn't brilliant by any means, but it was patient and good.
I'm not sure why you're intent on sweeping Star Wars under a nostalgia blanket as something that can only be appreciated if you saw it already. You can study the film and pick apart what was done well and what wasn't. Beneath the phenomenon, the nostalgia, and the movies it inspired, there is a legitimately good movie at the core.
I thought I had purchased 50 "be wrong" tokens for today, but I see now that I'm short, and what's more is that the accounting for taste bank is closed for the day already.
sigh...
Guess it's back to posting factual, objectively verifiable information with sources for the rest of the day for me.
That's how we roll... in the political sub-forum.
I was trying to be humorous, not shoot you down. It just seemed sudden of you to pull the nostalgia generalization, as if Star Wars has no merits as a film, only for cultural impact.
Meh, I'm not in the conversation to win, it's an interesting one, but it's not important. I didn't say it wasn't a legitimately good movie all on its own, I was trying to say that if it were made today, as-is (writing, acting, cinemtography, etc) with simply updated SFX, it wouldn't really be any better (or worse) than any other successful blockbuster today, and that it wasn't a great movie. Good, but not great.
I don't watch movies critically though, and quite frankly I love the star wars series. I also really enjoy the transformers series, though. I can look at both and know that one is better than the other, but still enjoy both of them.
I look at star wars and compare it to, say, The Lord of the Rings (hey, compare an epic series against an epic series - it's fair), and I can state definitively that star wars is not even in the same league.
Star wars does not compare favorably with today's great films - it is considered great for many reasons, and nostalgia plays a big part in that.
Hey you guys, you're all wrong. It turns out that the original trilogy sucked, and the prequels were waaaaay better.
The important difference is that the prequels were apparently nuanced political commentary about how stupid and evil President Bush was (totally risky and unheard of), and the original trilogy was, like, so lame.
The important difference is that the prequels were apparently nuanced political commentary about how stupid and evil President Bush was (totally risky and unheard of), and the original trilogy was, like, so lame.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-3d-george-lucas-289377
For Lucas, (re releasing the movies) was never just about finding another way to exploit the same pictures that have already been in theaters several times (grossing more than $4.4 billion in worldwide box office since 1977) and on home video (where they have raked in more than $3.8 billion).
The biggest reason to do it, Lucas told The Hollywood Reporter recently, was to give a new generation an opportunity to see the movies on the big screen in a theater, the way he always intended.
The reason why many may not have liked the movies is because they weren't seen as Lucas intended. Now they are. Enjoy.
For Lucas, (re releasing the movies) was never just about finding another way to exploit the same pictures that have already been in theaters several times (grossing more than $4.4 billion in worldwide box office since 1977) and on home video (where they have raked in more than $3.8 billion).
The biggest reason to do it, Lucas told The Hollywood Reporter recently, was to give a new generation an opportunity to see the movies on the big screen in a theater, the way he always intended.
The reason why many may not have liked the movies is because they weren't seen as Lucas intended. Now they are. Enjoy.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/why-star-wars-prequels-better-original-trilogy-160300514.html
The argument that the prequels were better movies....
The argument that the prequels were better movies....
What I love is how Star Wars fans act like the movies are some form of Heroin.
Your best way to object to this stuff is to... oh, I don't know... not go and see them multiple times?
It makes me laugh when people go on and on about how horrible the prequels are and when you ask how many times they've seen them, they're like 5-6.
Really? Did they think that their opinion would magically change?
Your best way to object to this stuff is to... oh, I don't know... not go and see them multiple times?
It makes me laugh when people go on and on about how horrible the prequels are and when you ask how many times they've seen them, they're like 5-6.
Really? Did they think that their opinion would magically change?
That is funny. I saw Episode I and II once each, one in theaters and the other on TV. I think Episode II was the worst.
I admit I saw Episode III a couple times and it's the only prequel one I own. Haven't watched it in a while. I did like it, but RedLetterMedia kind of ruined it for me. That's okay; I want to watch his videos again more than I want to watch the prequels.
I admit I saw Episode III a couple times and it's the only prequel one I own. Haven't watched it in a while. I did like it, but RedLetterMedia kind of ruined it for me. That's okay; I want to watch his videos again more than I want to watch the prequels.
George Lucas wants to re-release shit to make sure little imps and their parents go pay a movie ticket ( or buy a dvd), so every two years or so the Star Wars brand toys get new life breathe into them and fly off the shelves. Don't believe any other garbage he spouts out about his "artistic vision". He doesn't give two shits about his movies and the art behind film making. He has a cash cow that he's been milking the teats off of since 1979. Don't fucking dare tell me you wouldn't do the same.
I think the only, ONLY, ONLY creator of anything that never sold out is Bill Waterson.
I think the only, ONLY, ONLY creator of anything that never sold out is Bill Waterson.
Well you watch them because you can still watch crap blow up....
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